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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Orc in the Playground
     
    Foxydono's Avatar

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    Default Piercing arrow and aoe damage RAW?

    As the title says, what is the raw ruling on sneak attack damage on secondary targets regarding piercing arrow?

    I know Jeremy made a tweet saying they don't get damage, because there is no attack roll made to creatures in line of sight, but, why does this matter?

    As I read piercing arrow, all creatures in line of sight get damage 'as if' hit by the attack. If the attack does 50 damage, everyone in line of sight gets 50 damage (assuming they fail their saving throw).

    They just get damage 'as if' hit, so in my reading the rules of sneak attack don't apply. They are two seperate abilities thay have no interaction, except for the damage done.

    What is your reading regarding this issue?

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    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    BloodSnake'sCha's Avatar

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    Default Re: Piercing arrow and aoe damage RAW?

    Sneak Attack
    Beginning at 1st level, you know how to strike subtly and exploit a foeís distraction. Once per turn, you can deal an extra 1d6 damage to one creature you hit with an attack if you have advantage on the attack roll. The attack must use a finesse or a ranged weapon.

    You donít need advantage on the attack roll if another enemy of the target is within 5 feet of it, that enemy isnít incapacitated, and you donít have disadvantage on the attack roll.

    The amount of the extra damage increases as you gain levels in this class, as shown in the Sneak Attack column of the Rogue table.
    What is the wording on Piercing Arrow? Where it is from?


    EDIT:
    Found it.
    Piercing Arrow
    You use transmutation magic to give your arrow an ethereal quality. When you use this option, you donít make an attack roll for the attack. Instead, the arrow shoots forward in a line, which is 1 foot wide and 30 feet long, before disappearing. The arrow passes harmlessly through objects, ignoring cover. Each creature in that line must make a Dexterity saving throw. On a failed save, a creature takes damage as if it were hit by the arrow, plus an extra 1d6 piercing damage. On a successful save, a target takes half as much damage.

    The piercing damage increases to 2d6 when you reach 18th level in this class.
    I don't see the word attack here, hit by arrow is not hit by attack.
    I don't think you can get SA at all.
    Last edited by BloodSnake'sCha; 2020-01-23 at 01:53 AM.

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Dwarf in the Playground
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    Default Re: Piercing arrow and aoe damage RAW?

    By RAW, it would not apply. Sneak Attack does clearly state that an attack roll of some sort is required. Even the secondary part that states, "You don't need advantage on the attack roll if another enemy of the target is within 5 feet of it, that enemy isn't incapacitated, and you don't have disadvantage on the attack roll." has it. Piercing Arrow is a Dex Save for damage ability and doesn't require an attack roll. So in the most literal text of the rules the answer is no.

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Orc in the Playground
     
    Foxydono's Avatar

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    Default Re: Piercing arrow and aoe damage RAW?

    Oh my, I thought the saving throw only applied to creatures in line of sight, but it also applies to the primary target. In that case I agree with the ruling sneak attack doesn't apply. Such a mean nerf :(

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    BloodSnake'sCha's Avatar

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    Default Re: Piercing arrow and aoe damage RAW?

    Quote Originally Posted by GentlemanVoodoo View Post
    By RAW, it would not apply. Sneak Attack does clearly state that an attack roll of some sort is required. Even the secondary part that states, "You don't need advantage on the attack roll if another enemy of the target is within 5 feet of it, that enemy isn't incapacitated, and you don't have disadvantage on the attack roll." has it. Piercing Arrow is a Dex Save for damage ability and doesn't require an attack roll. So in the most literal text of the rules the answer is no.
    I have to point out it require an attack, not an attack roll.
    I can see it why it can be understood like this(the text use the following words:"if you have advantage on the attack roll. "
    But it look like a specific rule for me.

    We have to known options for attacks with no attack rolls(grapple and shove) but for now we have no finesse or range weapon I know about that can be used for those attacks.

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    EvilClericGuy

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    Default Re: Piercing arrow and aoe damage RAW?

    Quote Originally Posted by Foxydono View Post
    Oh my, I thought the saving throw only applied to creatures in line of sight, but it also applies to the primary target. In that case I agree with the ruling sneak attack doesn't apply. Such a mean nerf :(
    There *isn't* any "primary target" if you use Piercing Arrow. You simply use specified AoE instead of an attack.
    It's Eberron, not ebberon.
    It's not high magic, it's wide magic.
    And it's definitely not steampunk. The only time steam gets involved is when the fire and water elementals get loose.

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    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Lizardfolk

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    Default Re: Piercing arrow and aoe damage RAW?

    Quote Originally Posted by BloodSnake'sCha View Post
    I have to point out it require an attack, not an attack roll.
    I can see it why it can be understood like this(the text use the following words:"if you have advantage on the attack roll. "
    But it look like a specific rule for me.

    We have to known options for attacks with no attack rolls(grapple and shove) but for now we have no finesse or range weapon I know about that can be used for those attacks.
    grapple and shove are specifically referred to as "special attacks"

    many folks, including WOTC devs, define attack as requiring the attack roll.
    Quote Originally Posted by PHB, Making an Attack
    Resolve the Attack. You make the Attack roll.
    Quote Originally Posted by PHB, Attack Rolls
    When you make an Attack, your Attack roll determines whether the Attack hits or misses.

    While in general, I don't agree with the attack roll interpreation, in this case, I would treat piercing arrow like a save Spell, not an attack.
    Quote Originally Posted by MaxWilson View Post
    Just, please don't. Insisting on that technicality improves nothing.

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