3.P - Real Life. 1,000,000 gp. Magic and Psionic Items. GO!

[MaxiDuRaritry]

So, you are you, in real life, with no class levels or D&D abilities at all. You are given the option of spending one million gold pieces on magic and psionic items, and you can use the magic item creation rules in the MIC to stack item qualities to make items with lots of different special abilities all in one. You can specify what feats and class/race abilities are utilized in the creation of your items, though you are using the base costs in the books, so using cost reduction feats (or usage restrictions, etc) don't affect the amount your items cost. You can also use the trap creation and magic item creation guidelines in the DMG to add x/day spells to your items.

What magic items do you want?

You can exchange the remainder of the 1,000,000 gp into real-life currency (selling the gold in exchange for its market value in whatever denomination you desire), but that's pretty boring when you have access to what amounts to superpowers, so try to use the vast majority for D&D equipment, por favor.

I'm not sure of everything I want, but I'll start with a specially crafted, high ML psychoactive skin of proteus with a video game inventory-slash-hammer space using Reserves of Strength to break the ML limits on metamorphosis. I'd probably expend some money for some spellcasting services (or possibly just shell out for some soul crystals [MoI] of some psionic powers) to craft myself a new, immortal body (similar to Emperor Tippy's shadesteel golem tricks) to transfer my psyche into after applying the skin to it.

I was thinking of adding a bunch of /day spellcasting to the skin, as well, nabbing mainly divinations, healing, and transmutation/psychometabolism effects. Maybe some teleportation and blasty stuff, as well.

I'll have to think on it a bit.

But in the meantime, I'd like to know what kinds of things you'd like to get. Remember, you have 1,000,000 gp base cost magic items, adding a +50% markup to all but the most expensive effect on each item and the "common item effects" mentioned in the MIC. So a +6 belt of Con on a belt of battle wouldn't cost anything extra, beyond the cost of each separately.

[edit] Due to the posts just saying, "I want my x/day items of wish and miracle!" and more that would have undoubtedly followed after to +1 them, those are now disallowed. Das boring and predictable.

[AvatarVecna]

I mean, my first thought was just "Wish Abuse". Like...okay a Ring Of Big Wishes (let's call it...1/day Command Word "Wish" CL 17 w/ 9448 XP limit) costs 999,880 gp (and presumably the 120 gp left can be spent on making sure the physical ring is really cool or something I guess). Now I can duplicate basically any spell in the game, permanently summon things worth absurd amounts of gold, permanently create magic items of up to 55600 gp in value (or improve an existing magic item's value by up to 55600 gp), raise the dead, travel anywhere...or I can go beyond the normal effects and just hope the twisting doesn't screw anything up. But honestly, if I don't gotta worry about other mages in the world, 1/day Wishing is pretty cool for a mere mortal such as myself even without abuse.

Spoiler: Using the letter to ignore the spirit

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At that point, presuming I don't have to compete with other mages out there in the world for at least a month, I probably take my time abusing the hell out of it. I'll use that "improving magic items" use to increase the XP limit on the Wish (which increases how much it can improve the item going forward). After like 35 days of that, my Ring Of Big Wishes has enough of an XP limit to create items with base cost ~3.05 million gp, which is enough for a "Ring Of Frequent Wishes" (at-will Command Word "Wish" CL 17 w/ 5544 XP limit). Now I spend every round using my "Ring Of Frequent Wishes" to exponentially increase its value. Sure, each round is only multiplying the previous round's XP limit by somewhere between 1.0023 and 1.024, but with 600 Wishes, all that multiplication builds up; by the end of the first hour on the 35th day of having my original item, I have an item of at-will Wish with a ~1.4 billion XP "limit".

At this point, among other things, I take a break from my monotonous "I wish this ring granted more powerful wishes" chanting. What I do next honestly barely matters. Make NI items worth ~17 billion gp each that duplicate spells Wish can't directly duplicate (like, spells that would be above the level limits of Wish, including breaking into epic), or items that give me millions of feats? Use my NI Wishes of NI power to somehow generate XP until I hit epic? Is "Epic Spellcasting" really significantly better than NI Wishes if NI power? Probably, but how much better? Is the power increase worth the grind to epic? Maybe. Is that power increase necessary for what I want to accomplish? Probably not, I don't think I'm imaginative enough to want things too grand for these Wishing rings to be incapable of granting. Of course, maybe I'll feel differently after my Int/Wis/Cha get boosted up 500 points and I suddenly realize I wanna take over the multiverse or something since it'd be so easy for a being of my massive intellect, and that massive intellect would realize some reason why it's the best course of action that stupid me doesn't yet realize.

Heck, even what I've described here isn't really all that abusive, since it took me 35 days to really get things going, but I could just as well have used my 1/day Wish to set up Planar Binding shenanigans in like...the first couple days. Maybe even the first day, if I could squeeze enough functionality into 55600 gp worth of item (realistically, I need a summoning circle, the actual PB spell, and then probably some skill boosters so I dominate the conversation). Wish up an Efreeti who gives the finger to XP limits and just wish for actually-infinitely-powerful items super-early.

[Maat Mons]

This was looking interesting until you said that custom items are allowed.

The base price of an item of Wish, usable at-will, at caster level 20, is 612,000 gp. The market price is a lot higher, because that includes 100 * 5 * 5,000 gp (at minimum) for the xp cost of the spell. But you're oddly set on base price, which stays the same no matter how much xp is allotted to each wish. So I guess it's the Wish item with an arbitrarily high xp limit.

Even if you switch things over to market price, to eliminate slightly delay Wish cheese, an item of at-will Miracle is still affordable, and very, very powerful.



For the much less cheese-able scenario of only printed items, I think I'd take it mostly in Platforms of Healing (Stronghold Builder's Guide, p81) and Beds of Regeneration (Stronghold Builder's Guide, p70). I don't know... 4 Beds of Regeneration and 20 Platforms of Healing?

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Okay, fine. If you're gonna just parrot "wish/miracle 1/day lol" then no x/day or hour/minute/round/whatever of those spells unless the item in question is already in the books. Of course, the ring of 3 wishes already does this, but whatever. So no items of wish or miracle period.

Feel free to use the MIC rules to add item abilities to other items, though.

[AvatarVecna]

Candle Of Invocation then.

I mean okay yeah, I kinda figured going in that even just using a 1/day Wish with like a 10k XP limit (without abusing the infinite loop potential) would still be utterly absurd and not a helpful answer, but this is at least part of the point I was making: it takes something like 600k to get a 1/day Wish that can do the infinite looping thing, or it costs less than 10k to get a CoI and accomplish the same thing. "What could/would you get with a million gp" has "everything" as a legitimate answer, depending on how much cheese tolerance is in play. Sure you can put more effort in to get lesser effects, but like...the way the forum is being right now isn't exactly motivating me to put tons and tons of effort into posts that might not even become visible, y'know?

Anything decidedly uncheesy is gonna be borderline useless because it's polishing my Commoner 1 turd ass, and you can only polish a turd so much, and getting anything significant requires turning up the cheese. Sure, +6 Dex/+5 deflect/+5 natural is gonna make me hard to hit even for a professional sniper, but not impossible, and honestly I'm a lot more likely to die from a car crash anyway - and +3 HP just isn't enough to make me not become a meat crayon in that situation. Most of the really fun things that can be abused with magic items is pulling off nonsense with putting spells in items, but if that's off the table then items get a lot less interesting...but if it's on the table, anything that isn't "wish yourself to godhood" is deliberately playing down out of...what, a sense of fairness?

Spoiler: Ring Of Perfection (996000 gp)

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36000: Str +6 (enhancement)
36000: Dex +6 (enhancement)
36000: Con +6 (enhancement)
36000: Int +6 (enhancement)
36000: Wis +6 (enhancement)
36000: Cha +6 (enhancement)
50000: NA +5 (enhancement)
50000: AC +5 (deflection)
25000: Saves +5 (resistance)
50000: Saves +5 (luck)
13000: Monk's Belt
90000: Diplomacy +30 (competence)
10000 each: 20 skills +10 (competence)

AC +16, HP +3, Saves +13, Atk +3, unarmed damage 1d8+3, all skills +3, some skills +13, Diplomacy +33...eh? I guess in a real fight basically nobody can touch me, and my saves are good enough I'm never gonna get sick, my Diplomacy is good enough for basically anything I want and a bunch of other skills are nice too, but I'm still surprisingly fragile if something gets past my AC/Saves, and I'm not explosion-proof the way a real monk would be. +13 to a bunch of skills and +30 to Diplomacy is gonna be pretty useful. Can put that to good use making more money to use on IRL stuff in the future. But like, I got no casting to enhance with items, I've only got the 1 HD for fueling skill/HP shenanigans, and I have no idea if I'm gonna have magical competition at some point in the future with other people who got this offer. A million gp either can't save me from my fate, or can't not save me, depending on how far I'm allowed to take it.

If I'm less worried about actual combat, especially with other mages, I'd probably drop the NA bonus and the luck bonus and just turn that extra 150k into 70 million USD and see how I can use my wily skills and negotiation powers to become a billionaire quickly? But that also feels like a boring answer...but then what doesn't? Maybe I'm just kinda lacking in motivation to give the kinda answer you're looking for? Sorry. >.<

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Third Eye: Sense - 24k gp
Ring of Invisibility - 20k gp
Custom: Teleport at will, CL 9 - 90k gp
Custom: Indomitability at will, CL 9 - 90k gp
Custom: Heal at will, CL 9 - 90k gp
Custom: Ruby Ray of Reversal at will, CL 11 - 132k gp
Custom: Telekinesis at will, CL 9 - 90k gp
Custom: Call Lightning Storm at will, CL 9 - 90k gp
Custom: Remove Disease at will, CL 5 - 30k gp
Custom: Guidance of the Avatar at will, CL 3 - 12k gp
Custom: Fabricate at will, CL 20 - 200k gp
Custom: Restore Extremity at will, ML 9 - 90k gp
Custom: Lesser Restoration at will, CL 3 - 12k gp
Custom: Creeping Cold at will, CL 3 - 12k gp
Custom: Psionic Tongues at will, ML 3 - 12k gp
Ring of Sustenance - 2.5k gp

3.5k gp remaining for whatever else. I'm pretty sure neither Call Lightning Storm nor Creeping Cold has an obvious culprit.

[Kazyan]

A jade circlet of X/day Shapechange, at CL 25, can let you do more-or-less whatever it is you need to do (even with Wish via Zodar off-limits). I'm not sure what to do with the rest of the gold, but probably some of the passives from Biffoniacus_Furiou's list that I'd like to have on all the time.

[Bohandas]

lich phylactery 120000
Hewards handy haversack 2000
helm of teleportation 73500
ring of regeneration 90000
hand of the mage 900
bags of holdingx3 10000x3
bag of tricks (rust and tan) 3000, 6300
(subtotal 323800)
Decanter of Endless Water (9000)
Headband of Intellect 36000
device that uses fabricate at will 90000
Talisman of the Disc 500
Belt of giant Strength 36000
Rod of escape 3500
323800+175000=498800
survival pouch 3300
at will scholar's touch gloves 2000
tome of worldly memory 1500
and probably a bunch of other stuff

[Quertus]

Me as the base, eh? Hmmm…

So, immortality, including surviving the heat death of the universe, would be a priority. The easy answer is to pay for spellcasting services to travel to another universe that follows different laws, and doesn't have those problems. But let's ignore that for the moment, and look at the challenges inherent in remaining in this universe.

Surviving the heat death of the universe requires, at a minimum, the ability to…

• create air / survive in a vacuum
• regulate the amount of matter on the planet (both create and destroy) / survive without a planet
• avoid/survive/prevent the sun going supernova
• survive/prevent the sun going out
• create food & water / sustenance
• survive without company / create/summon new friends

And that's not even getting into things like black holes, dark matter, diseases, or just plain dieing from taking damage, or old age.

So, getting a new, immortal body, and having a safe, stable realm - like a permanent dream, or realm created with Genesis - and using Astral Projection seems the optimal route. And should work for protecting both into this world, or into another after the heat death of the universe.

Ages ago, when we rolled for superpowers, I rolled up (iirc) something like Sunbeam and Miracle. So, despite it having been taken off the list, that's still what I would aim for (just in the 0 XP, only to duplicate other spells versatility way, not in the crazy "go infinite" way).

Also, going against the spirit maybe, but I'd look towards the possibility of having some of these items being through Sculpt Self. Yes, horribly expensive, and not only utterly pointless but potentially actively detrimental if I'm just using Astral Projection, but, sometimes, you just want super powers, not gadgets, you know? (Especially for when you're enjoying a nudist lifestyle, after all other sentient life has long vanished from the universe)

Last thought before I try to save this: Dragons can eat anything. Which means that, when they cast Purify Food and Drink, it can affect anything. Which means that pollution (and maybe even radiation) are solvable issues. So maybe, just maybe, humanity might be eternally salvageable, too. Which means a few creature comforts for my Chosen (Heal, Regeneration, Mordenkainen's Magnificent Mansion, Steal Youth(?)) would be in order, too. And maybe an item or two just for them to research.

Although, honestly, I think I'd want a custom "Quertus' Man Cave" (complete with video games, movies, RPGs) over the default Mansion.

So, if there is a next time, I'll get down to the brass tacks of pricing and evaluating options.

[TalonOfAnathrax]

I came here to say "Shapechange at CL 25, and Dark Chaos Shuffle". Everything else (maybe Mind Blank, Foresight, stat boosters, something to keep your item safe, etc) are just gravy. Shapechange and the proper feats allow you to gain more HD, to gain a bevy of spells and special abilities, and that's just the beginning!

[Bohandas]

Me as the base, eh? Hmmm…

So, immortality, including surviving the heat death of the universe, would be a priority. The easy answer is to pay for spellcasting services to travel to another universe that follows different laws, and doesn't have those problems. But let's ignore that for the moment, and look at the challenges inherent in remaining in this universe.

Surviving the heat death of the universe requires, at a minimum, the ability to…

• create air / survive in a vacuum
• regulate the amount of matter on the planet (both create and destroy) / survive without a planet
• avoid/survive/prevent the sun going supernova
• survive/prevent the sun going out
• create food & water / sustenance
• survive without company / create/summon new friends

=

Is a lich's phylactery a magic item?

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Is a lich's phylactery a magic item?

Yes, except to attune it to you you must be a lich.

[Maat Mons]

Actually, wait a minute. If you switch the limit to market price, Wish items are off the table.

Market price = item price + component price + base price. For a charges/day item of Wish, the component price is 50 * 5 * 5,000 gp = 1,250,000 gp. The cost reduction for charges/day applies only to base price, so it doesn't reduce that figure at all.

I think the cost reductions for "only usable by X" apply to the entire market price, but you should be banning those cost reductions anyway.

This would still allow items like the Ring of Three Wishes, which only have some finite number of uses. But it would prevent things like the 1/day item, which can give infinite Wishes if you wait long enough.

It wouldn't prevent people from getting Miracle, Limited Wish, or any number of other highly abusable spells at-will though. So disallowing custom items that duplicate spells is probably for the best.



Tangentially, if this were for the D&D world, I'd go with an amulet with the following effects:

Ability score bonuses, +6 enhancment, all (6x 36,000 gp)
Death Ward (Ring of Death Ward; 60,000 gp)
Energy resistance 30, cold and fire (2x 44,000 gp)
Immunity to critical hits (Heavy Fortification armor ability; +5 (so 35,000 gp?))
Immunity to transmutation effects (Proof Against Transmutation armor ability; +5 (so 35,000 gp?))
Mind Blank (Third Eye Conceal; 120,000 gp)
Save bonus, +5 resistance (25,000 gp)
True Seeing (Hathran Mask of True Seeing; 75,000 gp)

And, of course, a curse that prevents it from being removed (unless Remove Curse is cast). I mean, if my head comes off, the curse would logically no longer keep the amulet in place. But once my head is off, the protective powers of this item won't really be able to help me anyway.

If I've done my math right on non-associated slots, the cost increase for multiple abilities, and the specific exemptions in MIC to that second one, it comes out to 987,500 gp, plus whatever the curse costs.

[TalonOfAnathrax]

Some cheap items would be nice too. At-will Prestidigitation seems nice, but even just a Vestment of Many Styles (shapeshifting clothes) would be so useful! At 500gp, it's a steal!

[Bohandas]

And an item with a continuous prestidigitation effect. 1000 gp

[Kaiwen]

I'd post useful or powerful items, but it seem people have already tackled that, so..

5400gp – 3 command word items of Animate Rope
10800gp - Command word item of Aversion
10800gp - Command word item of Attraction
12000gp - Continuous item of Hold Person
56000gp - Continuous item of Sensory Deprivation
1800gp - Command word item of Stupor
10800gp - Command word item of Crisis of Breath
50400gp - Command word item of Implanted Suggestion
27000gp - Command word item of Dominate Person
50400gp - Command word item of Control Body
50400gp - Command word item of Modify Memory
27000gp - Command word item of False Sensory Input
2000gp - Continuous item of Lesser Vigor
1800gp - Use-activated item of Power Word: Pain
8000gp - Nipple clamps of exquisite pain
12000gp - Continuous item of Alter Self (The only item here that intentionally benefits me)
1800gp - Command word item of Psionic Minor Creation
2500gp - 5 Vestments of many styles

In total, that's only 356,100gp, so you have plenty to combine items and get other, more practical items. You should probably also pick up items of Delay Death, Dispel Magic, Revivify, and Programmed Amnesia, in case something goes very wrong.

[Maat Mons]

I just realized my Cursed Amulet of Avoiding Nasty Things somehow didn't wind up with Freedom of Movement. That's a oversight that cannot be allowed to stand.

*Sigh* I guess the +6 to all ability scores has to go. It didn't really fit with the defensive theme anyway. Well, the bonuses to Dex, Con, and Wis did, in part. At least getting rid of those bonuses makes room for all 5 energy resistances.

So the amulet is currently standing at:

• Death Ward (Ring of Death Ward; 60,000 gp)
• Freedom of Movement (Ring of Freedom of Movement; 40,000 gp)
• Energy resistance 30, acid, cold, electricity, fire and sonic (5x 44,000 gp)
• Immunity to critical hits (Heavy Fortification armor ability; +5 (so 35,000 gp?))
• Immunity to transmutation effects (Proof Against Transmutation armor ability; +5 (so 35,000 gp?))
• Mind Blank (Third Eye Conceal; 120,000 gp)
• Save bonus, +5 resistance (25,000 gp)
• True Seeing (Hathran Mask of True Seeing; 75,000 gp)

Which I think comes out to 980,000 gp, plus however much it costs to get it cursed. Though it's possible I assigned the "uncustomary slot" price increase to some things that shouldn't have had it.

[Kaiwen]

I just realized my Cursed Amulet of Avoiding Nasty Things somehow didn't wind up with Freedom of Movement. That's a oversight that cannot be allowed to stand.

*Sigh* I guess the +6 to all ability scores has to go. It didn't really fit with the defensive theme anyway. Well, the bonuses to Dex, Con, and Wis did, in part. At least getting rid of those bonuses makes room for all 5 energy resistances.

So the amulet is currently standing at:

• Death Ward (Ring of Death Ward; 60,000 gp)
• Freedom of Movement (Ring of Freedom of Movement; 40,000 gp)
• Energy resistance 30, acid, cold, electricity, fire and sonic (5x 44,000 gp)
• Immunity to critical hits (Heavy Fortification armor ability; +5 (so 35,000 gp?))
• Immunity to transmutation effects (Proof Against Transmutation armor ability; +5 (so 35,000 gp?))
• Mind Blank (Third Eye Conceal; 120,000 gp)
• Save bonus, +5 resistance (25,000 gp)
• True Seeing (Hathran Mask of True Seeing; 75,000 gp)

Which I think comes out to 980,000 gp, plus however much it costs to get it cursed. Though it's possible I assigned the "uncustomary slot" price increase to some things that shouldn't have had it.

You can squeeze some extra in if you reduce the spell and caster levels on your spell effects.
Death Ward and Freedom of Movement can go down to SL2, CL1 (Sanctum Spell + Mage Slayer + Runescarred Berserker).
Resist Energy can go down to SL1 (Practiced Spellcaster + Ranger).
You can replace Heavy Fortification with Sanctum Living Undeath (SC) cast by a Spellgifted Ur-Priest (SL1, CL1). You get -4 Cha, but there's ways to boost that back. You can add Invisible (+0 metamagic) if you don't want to look like a zombie.

In total, I think that saves you around 172k gp, which is enough to squeeze some other things in. Maybe even some of the ability bonuses you dropped!

Edit: Just curious, how are you putting Proof Against Transmutation on an amulet?

Edit 2: Just a suggestion I was playing with earlier, Sanctum Invisible Necrotic Empowerment (LM, Clr8 Sor8 Wiz8) cast by an Ur-Priest with Necrotic Cyst, Mage Slayer, and Pierce Magical Concealment can be SL7 CL1, for total of 56k gp for +8 enh to Int, Wis, and Dex, +8 NA, and +5 comp Fort. And 100 temp HP, whenever you feel like taking your amulet off and putting it on again.

[Quertus]

At-will Miracle should cost 9*9*2k=162k, or 324k as a super power via Sculpt Self. That would allow me to Plane Shift to the Astral plane, where a single casting of Genesis would cost (9*17*10)+(1k*5)=6530.

Next up, a new body. And here we hit the first snag for at-will Miracle: AFB, but the ritual of transformation likely imposes an XP cost (and might only explicitly mention Wish - again, AFB). So, at a minimum, it's (9*17*10)+(5000*5), or 26,530 per casting of Wish - which, really, it should only require 1 to transform me into… what? An Elan? I would probably lose all my memories. A custom "me-lan", where I keep my memories? Well, even astral projecting, if I take subdual damage and get knocked unconscious, I wouldn't be able to activate my powers, and might starve to death. We'll go into more detail later in another post as to what exactly I'd become, but a new body is definitely in the plans.

Astral Projection is where we hit our second limitation on things at-will Miracle just cannot duplicate. So, at-will Astral Projection will run (9*17*2k)+(50*(1k+(17*50))), iirc. That's a lot of math. (1850*50)+306k=92500+306000=398.5k.

But now we get to the real cheese. As much as I may hate it, by RAW, apparently items used while using Astral Projection aren't really used. So it seems a waste not to utilize that, and reuse any one-shot items… like that Wish. So it would make more sense to buy a Ring of 1 Wishes, and reuse it, than to pay for spellcasting services.

Wish is banned? No problem - just a custom spell of changing race is fine. I'll even pay full wish price for this much more limited item.

What else can't I cover with Miracle? Well, obviously I'm missing a lot of static bonuses that would be really nice. Obviously, this build isn't "perfect". But, shrug. I've done without thus far, I'll continue doing so unless having them is essential to my plans.

What else do I need for my own immortality? Immunity to subdual damage, Continent Teleport (or, really, just a custom "Triggered Dismissal"), Immunity to Disease / Cure Disease. What else can render me "unconscious but not dead", or otherwise crimp my style? Drugs, aging, limb loss, radiation, starvation, dehydration, maybe suffocation. I think that the combination of race, Miracle, and Astral Projection will suffice.

Once we hit magic, we've got mind control and petrification to worry about. There's a cowl for Mind Blank, but I'm not sure - outside race - how to protect from petrification or various Polymorph effects. We'll add that to our considerations for race when we circle back.

Two spells come to mind as being outside the range of Miracle, but inside the circle of "things I love": Teleport Through Time, and Mindrape. Polymorph any Object is also desirable, but likely exists on some domain or another. So, one use of those two should run (9*17*50)=7650 each. Not so much "essential" tactically as "things I'd feel bad not taking".

So, I still need to address my form. Plus my Chosen - what abilities I'm going to take for three purpose of being able to take care of them (potentially for eternity). And delve a bit further into how I'll deal with intelligent opposition from both the muggle and magical worlds.

We'll see what actually posts.

Ideas so far
324,000 at will Miracle, as a super power via Sculpt Self
6,530 180' radius demiplane, via Genesis
398,000 at will Plane Shift
32,650 Ring of 1 Wish / 1-shot transformation ritual
7,650 1-shot Mindrape
7,650 1-shot Teleport Through Time

Maybe…
(200,800 Cowl of Mind Blank)
(120,000 Third Eye Conceal)

[Crichton]

I'd look towards the possibility of having some of these items being through Sculpt Self

At-will Miracle should cost 9*9*2k=162k, or 324k as a super power via Sculpt Self.

I'm probably just missing something, as I'm not super familiar with the ins and outs of Sculpt Self shenanigans, but how do you substitute the xp costs that Sculpt Spell says you have to pay personally, for gp expenditure here instead? SS isn't a magic item, you can't buy it, nor is it a spellcasting service you can pay for. It's a feat, that doesn't do anything on its own aside from enable you to then spend your own xp for the alterations. The xp costs are calculated from magic item pricing numbers, but no actual gp is ever involved, nor is it a thing you can substitute for paying the xp costs (at least not according to my quick readthrough of the Dragon 304 article.

[Quertus]

I'm probably just missing something, as I'm not super familiar with the ins and outs of Sculpt Self shenanigans, but how do you substitute the xp costs that Sculpt Spell says you have to pay personally, for gp expenditure here instead? SS isn't a magic item, you can't buy it, nor is it a spellcasting service you can pay for. It's a feat, that doesn't do anything on its own aside from enable you to then spend your own xp for the alterations. The xp costs are calculated from magic item pricing numbers, but no actual gp is ever involved, nor is it a thing you can substitute for paying the xp costs (at least not according to my quick readthrough of the Dragon 304 article.

Point. I'm very accustomed to thinking in terms of GP / XP transparency (and often create custom spells for that purpose). If that's not available, that's another wrinkle in my plans.

Hmmm… for that price, it could be "ribcage runes" or some other similarly "part of me" item. Or a Ravenloft Device, maybe? (I don't actually know how those work)

[Kaiwen]

Point. I'm very accustomed to thinking in terms of GP / XP transparency (and often create custom spells for that purpose). If that's not available, that's another wrinkle in my plans.

Hmmm… for that price, it could be "ribcage runes" or some other similarly "part of me" item. Or a Ravenloft Device, maybe? (I don't actually know how those work)

Ravenloft devices simulate magic items, and their effects are identical, besides for being nonmagical and requiring external power sources. It doesn't let you get out of paying XP.

The obvious solution is to gain XP. Gate + "Fail your save against my Wrack" + repeated coup de graces should do the trick.

[Quertus]

Ravenloft devices simulate magic items, and their effects are identical, besides for being nonmagical and requiring external power sources. It doesn't let you get out of paying XP.

The obvious solution is to gain XP. Gate + "Fail your save against my Wrack" + repeated coup de graces should do the trick.

… my usual solution to GP/XP transparency (or, at least, my favorite) is to purchase XP components. In the case of Sculpt Self, I have my characters eat said XP components in order to gain the XP (for Sculpt Self purposes only).

In that regard, I treat sculpt self exactly as any other magic item.

Also, WBL calculations suggest you count Sculpt Self against character wealth. So it's counted that way there, too.

So I don't think I'm too far off base considering Sculpt Self upgrades as "items".

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Don't forget to add a constant magic circle against evil effect on yourself, in case anyone gets past your mind blank effect. Remember that not only does MCAE protect against charm and domination effects, but also against being possessed.

And add in a dominate effect, as well, since anyone managing to get past your mind blank and magic circle with any sort of mind-control effect that isn't mind-affecting (like necrotic cyst, I believe) still has to make opposed Cha checks against your concurrent dominate effect.

Yeah, they overlap somewhat, but not completely, and having multiple ways to defend yourself is always nice.

[edit 1] Also, Quertus, note that I have my very skin as the locus for my magic item-ness. It costs less than giving them to yourself as a set of superpowers, since you get to spend GP instead of XP.

[edit 2] Would crafting a psychoactive skin out of riverine make you physically invulnerable?

[Crichton]

… my usual solution to GP/XP transparency (or, at least, my favorite) is to purchase XP components. In the case of Sculpt Self, I have my characters eat said XP components in order to gain the XP (for Sculpt Self purposes only).

How does that work? Legit question, how can I buy real xp? That would make things like Sculpt Spell a lot better. I know of ways to pay for crafting xp, such as distilled joy, etc, but those specify that they can only be used in item creation.

[edit 1] Also, Quertus, note that I have my very skin as the locus for my magic item-ness. It costs less than giving them to yourself as a set of superpowers, since you get to spend GP instead of XP.

Would still be susceptible to Disjunction and/or AMF or Dispel, though, right? Unlike Sculpt Self abilities, which are Ex (aside from direct spellcasting gained through SS, which is Su, so stops working in an AMF, but is still unaffected by a Disjunction)

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Would still be susceptible to Disjunction and/or AMF or Dispel, though, right? Unlike Sculpt Self abilities, which are Ex (aside from direct spellcasting gained through SS, which is Su, so stops working in an AMF, but is still unaffected by a Disjunction)

Well, this thread IS about magic items.

But if you consider that to be a big enough problem to worry about IRL, go to the Ravenloft: Legacy of the Blood book and look up Devices. They're (Ex) versions of magic items. They require batteries to run, so you'd have to spend some resources on those. My favorites are the ones that run off your own bioelectrical output. No having to charge the batteries, since your body's electrochemical production does it for you. And since my main magic item is my own skin, adding a bio battery to power it only makes sense.

[Crichton]

Well, this thread IS about magic items.

But if you consider that to be a big enough problem to worry about IRL, go to the Ravenloft: Legacy of the Blood book and look up Devices. They're (Ex) versions of magic items. They require batteries to run, so you'd have to spend some resources on those. My favorites are the ones that run off your own bioelectrical output. No having to charge the batteries, since your body's electrochemical production does it for you. And since my main magic item is my own skin, adding a bio battery to power it only makes sense.

No yeah, I get that. It was mainly to point out the primary difference between his suggested SS abilities' downsides and those of magic items, even ones made nearly 'innate' as your skin idea.

As for devices, yeah, they are pretty great, in that they are effectively Ex magic items. If they're allowed, they're awesome.
Sadly, they're also 3rd party, and so aren't often an allowed source. (licensed, yes, but still 3rd party)
This particular thread is your creation, though, so if you're good with 3rd party sources, that opens up a ton of really good options, including devices.

[Quertus]

Making friends and influencing people - Quertus' Chosen

There are a great many potential options for how to not spend eternity alone. The most obvious is to use that "totally not a Wish" to transform my Chosen into similarly immortal beings. This has merit, and we'll discuss this plan further when I circle back to considering my new form. But it's not the only possibility.

For example I could turn my Chosen into Undead. This would certainly make them low-maintenance. However, since I don't want to completely discount magical opposition, and I don't know how turning interacts with Astral Projection. Also, should they die to accidents or unnatural causes, undead are harder to revive. Ultimately, I think we'll skip that option.

We could simply live on the Astral, or some other timeless plane. But, over an infinite timeframe, if there's a greater than 0% chance of them dieing, being sucked into a color pool and dieing of old age, etc, it still results in the inevitable death of all the Chosen.

----- Enter the Dystopia -----

Something that has actually long appealed to me is… OK, let me give the background. I dimly recall a short story about a… cursed?… library where people would learn about their soulmate - who died 3,000 years ago. Or the happiest moment in their life… which was when they were 9.

I also dimly recall a… movie?… where people went to heaven, and got to choose their personal heaven - which was them reliving their best moment.

Combine that with the idea of Simulacrum - an immortal being that cannot grow or learn. And, being me, Mindrape.

Set everyone to their best day, and let them relive it for eternity.

But, wait, what if a Simulacrum perishes? Well, I guess you have to keep the original on hand - perhaps petrified, or the subject of Sink or Trap the Soul - in an area where they can regenerate. Or, even more macabre, 50x the required components (so, a little over 4 pounds of the individual) worked into a focus for the Simulacrum spell.

But let's assume I'm too dumb to accept just being happy, and want to learn and grow. So I'm not a Simulacrum, but everyone else is. Sound like a nightmare? Probably. But let's talk logistics. Well, that 180' radius demiplane can doubtless hold a bunch of statues and foci - probably more than I'd care to keep. If I'm wrong, well, Genesis is pretty cheap to cast, and the total volume, what, goes up x8 with 1 more casting, x27 with a second, x64 on a third… and increases 3 orders of magnitude by the 9th. Just how many Chosen could I want?

That which I love, I love forever. I still enjoy videogames that came out 20-30 years ago. But, eventually, I might get tired of companions who can never learn or grow. What can I do to accommodate "real boy" Chosen?

----- Caring is Sharing -----

Again, the obvious answer is to share my transformation tech. There might be some wrinkles there, and… OK, a finite number of Chosen, over an infinite time frame? If there is any chance of accidental death, intentional death (from each other or outside sources), or even suicide, well, over an infinite timeframe, it means that I'll have 0 Chosen left.

So, maybe I can give them their own demiplane where they're statues, use Astral Projection on the statues, then return just the projection to flesh?

Even so, humans like having kids. If I don't Mindrape that away (or prevent it with a non-reproductive form, which might still require Mindrape to prevent unhappiness) I'll still have Family to protect. So, let's assume that, no matter what, it needs to be a solvable issue.

Well, Miracle can let me cast Mordenkainen's Magnificent Mansion, and variants thereof, like Quertus' Man Cave, and probably even extradimensional gardens and forests. The wording of the spell discusses "components", but not "foci", so it's questionable whether I'll need the bit of marble, silver spoon, etc, or counterparts for the other spells. At 5 GP each, it's a trivial expense - and, better yet, I can always collect them later.

The Mansion can feed 12 people per caster level. And nothing says I can't cast it repeatedly. In fact, since everyone needs time off, or has days where they want to wander a hedge maze when someone else wants to work on art projects or whatever, I'll almost certainly be creating several different environments simultaneously.

But the Chosen - and their Families - still have to transition between them. This may prove difficult after the heat death of the universe.

So, it sounds like I'll need to use Genesis for yet a 3rd realm - this one simply as a "transition station".

But what if - for whatever reason - I'm not around?

For bare minimum subsistence, they'd need Create Food and Water traps, and a Heal effect would be really handy. Also, at least 1 Ring of Prestidigitation, to flavor the food, would be a huge quality of life improvement for quite cheap (and, being me, I might well make it an "Infinity Gauntlet of Least Wish" instead). And something would need to dispose of the waste products - if for no other reason than because the plane is of finite size.

Also, unless they're all naked, something to Mend or Make Whole their clothes (and bedding, bowls, utensils, etc?) is probably important.

Yes, the best answer is probably to just give them their own "dynamic Mansion generator" - however, that's expensive. Also, over an infinite timeframe, I need to make sure that the probability of these devices being destroyed is 0. Adamantine? Living metal? Force?

Still so much work to be done. But this is the direction I'd go.

Don't forget to add a constant magic circle against evil effect on yourself, in case anyone gets past your mind blank effect. Remember that not only does MCAE protect against charm and domination effects, but also against being possessed.

And add in a dominate effect, as well, since anyone managing to get past your mind blank and magic circle with any sort of mind-control effect that isn't mind-affecting (like necrotic cyst, I believe) still has to make opposed Cha checks against your concurrent dominate effect.

Yeah, they overlap somewhat, but not completely, and having multiple ways to defend yourself is always nice.

Also, Quertus, note that I have my very skin as the locus for my magic item-ness. It costs less than giving them to yourself as a set of superpowers, since you get to spend GP instead of XP.

I wasn't going to address this yet, but… since you brought it up…

I'm still working on the math, but I expect that surviving the heat death of the universe alongside the Chosen will cost most of my resources.

Further, since I'm working on an infinite timeframe, anything greater than a 0% failure rate is unacceptable.

No matter what defenses I take, ultimately, an infinite number of dedicated magical attackers / predators / whatever will eventually succeed in bypassing them. For example, will any of that hold up to a Chosen of Mystra + antimagic?

Subsequently, my plan had been to get any really cheap defenses that I could afford, supplemented with whatever I can cast via Miracle.

And, if Magic turned out to be a thing… in this world? Hopefully I'd just outlive any aggression. In other D&D worlds? If I go there (or they come here), and I survive, I'll get more loot, and worry about perfecting my defenses then. In other, non-D&D worlds? Who knows how my defenses will interact / hold up. One of my characters can simply ignore Mind Blank (much to the chagrin of Quertus, my signature academia mage for whom this account is named), so, yes, I would want the kind of layered defenses you discuss. But I just haven't got the money for all of what I'd want.

I love your "skin" idea and, for a character, I'd absolutely do something like that. But I'm too paranoid. Having "your skin" as an item leaves it vulnerable to you being flayed alive. That's the level of paranoia I'm operating under - "what if I'm so drugged/Dominated/whatever that I don't object to being dismembered and flayed alive"? I want, when I recover my senses from being turned into a brain in a jar, to still return to "quality of life" immortality beyond the heat death of the universe.

Organic creatures can generally be drugged and mind controlled; Undead (and Outsiders, and Plants, and…) can be Rebuked; Constructs are vulnerable to the Rod of Construct Control. It's really hard to reach that oh so necessary 0% if facing the potential for infinite D&D threats - let alone infinite non-D&D opposition.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Your skin should be relatively safe from removal if it's cursed relatively harmlessly, such as with a "different effect" or "opposite effect" curse that prevents its removal. Like, if you have the psychoactive skin of proteus stacked twice, and the first is normal (albeit high level) while the other "cursed" effect adds templates of the appropriate CR/LA/HD (whichever is highest) instead of altering your entire form. Add on a regeneration effect to repair any damage it takes, and you should be good.

Give yourself Nystul's magic aura x/day and make any nascent mages around think that your magic powers are via items you're carrying instead of from your own skin, and you're good to go. It's not like anyone will know unless you tell them, especially since the skin is an (Ex) Device that doesn't show up under detect magic/psionics/whatever. It'd take some stupidly high divination abilities, and anyone you go up against who has that would be able to screw you almost no matter what.

If you're still worried, build yourself a body via (Ex) items of greater fabricate and polymorph any object, and enhance your body itself. Make it out of aurorum coated in thin sheets of riverine (and enhanced to rebuff/withstand disintegration effects). Now your body itself has a bunch of (Ex) powers, and you can make yourself immune to mind-swapping effects via things like mind blank, magic circle against evil, and the iron circlet of guarded souls. Make that last one to be a warforged component, and give your body the ability to install such. You'll be protected from soul-altering stuff until and unless you die, in which case, the circlet will be removable, allowing you to be rezzed.

[Calthropstu]

So. 50 gp = 1 lb. 1lb = 16 oz. 1 oz of gold = 1,500(ish) USD. 16 oz of gold = 24,000 USD. ergo, 1gp = 480. 480 * 1,000,000 = 480,000,000.

So what items are worth more than becoming an instant Millionaire?

Attack spells are comparable in power to modern weaponry. I can buy a grenade launcher for 100,000 fairly easily. Much lower than the price to make a fireball at will item. So attack spells are out. Charm spells? Maybe. A charm at will item would only cost about 2k gp. That's like 480,000 USD. I could buy a lot of good will for 480,000, but using a charm during negotiations could easily recoup that. So put me down for 1 charm person at will item.

So 2k gp spent. I am down to 998,000. So now what? What would be worth more than the nearly 500 mil I would get by just converting? Hmmm. Teleportation is pretty high on that list. In fact, if you could get the ability to teleport at will, and then study how it works and replicate it scientifically you would be more than a millionaire. You would literally be making the most useful invention in the history of... ever. So how much for a teleportation item use activated infinite item? Looks like 5 * 9 * 2000. So 90,000 * 480 = 43,200,000. 43 mil to be able to teleport at will and, if you play your cards right, you could unravel how it works and duplicate it. But, that takes capital. So let's go ahead and convert 100k gold now to put aside towards uncovering the secret of teleportation. Maybe it works, maybe it doesn't. Definitely worth trying however. Actually, let's just go ahead and spent that 100k on a ring of three wishes and just wish to know how to apply science to replicate teleportation without using magic, wish for the items required to make it happen, and wish for the finished product. (I know you don't want wish abuse, but this seems like a legitimate non abusive wish and can probably be replicated with other magics. I just don't want to go hunting for alternate methods.) Now you know how teleportation works, have the items to make it and have the finished product. So you can now replicate it as much as you need to. So now you're a guaranteed billionaire and have a secret "I teleport instantly" device that pretty much makes you a national security nightmare.

So what's next? After all that I have 808,000 gp left. I've become a household name, have revolutionized transportation, and will likely become the wealthiest person on earth. So now, some defense might actually be needed. I can already teleport and charm anyone, which is pretty cool. So now, let's make myself as hard to kill as possible. Invisibility at will will cost 20,000 (ring of invisibility). Hard to shoot what you can't see. So now I am down to 788,000 gp. I can teleport, turn invisible and charm at will.

Now let's get fabricate so we can infinitely recreate the items we made with the wishes. 9 * 5 * 2,000 = 90,000. Yay, now we can quickly make the machines that will replace airplanes. At a cost of near nothing. But now we're down to 698,000 gp. Still have over 2/3 of the original amount and I have already made a world changing effort.

So what next? Let's go ahead and get a 3x per day contingency item. So (11 * 6 * 2000) / (3/5) = 79,200. Let's put the contingency of "Someone is about to kill or seriously injure me: Teleport to safe location" 698,000 - 79200 = 618,800. Still over half.

Let's go ahead and get something fun. Hand of the mage. At 900 gp, I can manipulate objects from far away. Minor telekinesis at will? Sure. Only 900 gp. 617,900.

Let's grab a bag of holding. Go big or go home. Type 4 for a total of 10,000. In fact, let's go ahead and grab 5 of them. 50,000. 567,900. Yay, now we can open a smuggling operation. Or, you know, store all of our items for making teleportation devices. Ideally, we make a teleportation device that only teleports people to and from a teleportation device. Governments will be much less scared of a device that doesn't render their ability to dictate who comes and goes meaningless. So let's cooperate for now.

Hmm, not even half spent yet. Wow, this is a lot of cash. Let's get to spending some more. Let's get something both offensive and practical. Disintegrate. This nigh peerless attack spell is both both powerful and functional. Its ability to turn construction and nature alike to dust, as well as creatures, is extremely versatile making it far more useful than modern weapons. At will is very expensive. 6 * 11 * 2000 = 132,000. The most expensive item thus far, and arguably the least useful. But let's grab it because having something like this is a great deterrent to potential enemies. 567,900 - 132,000 = 435,900. We've fallen below half. My goal is to have at least $10,000,000 after all is said and done which is between 20 and 30k gp. Let's aim for 25,000.
So, 435k hmmm? So right now I can:
charm
teleport
turn invisible
be saved from harm
store stuff
disintegrate stuff

So what else can I do? I've protected myself reasonably well, made a world changing discovery, and set myself up to make billions. But wait, I haven't made a place for myself. I know, a one use item of mage's magnificent mansion. And a one use item of permanency. ((5 * 2500) + (5 * 9 * 25)) + (13 * 7 * 25) = 15,900. Whee. Now I have an invisible, unassailable and massive home. 435,900 - 15,900 = 420,000. (heh, 420. I swear I did not set that up.) Let's go and play some more.

Let's go ahead and get comprehend languages always active for 2,000. 418,000 remains.
Let's also get disguise self for an addition 2,000. 416,000.
Expeditious retreat always active would be fairly nice. 414,000.
Detect thoughts at will? Yes please. 402,000.
Minor Image at will. Seriously useful. Easily as good as invisibility, but you have to concentrate... and you can make all sorts of things happen as a result. 390,000.
Blindness/Deafness at will. Some will think it cruel, but having run into so many worthless jackasses, especially racist ones, I feel being able to say "Well, now you don't have to worry about people's skin color" would be immensely satisfying. 378,000.

So now I have a bunch of nifty abilities, but, aside from disintegrate and teleport, nothing that reaches super hero level. And I still have 378,000 left. And that's all from the wizard spell list. But what would I like from the cleric spell list?

Well, removing diseases and recovering from injuries would be nice. Let's get at will remove disease for 30k. 348,000.
Let's get cure serious wounds too. 318,000.
Hold person for 12k. 306,000.
Let's take a once per day heal as well. 306,000 - 26,400 = 279,600. We've almost spent 3/4. I can remove diseases at will, cure serious injuries at will stop people from moving at will, and completely remove all afflictions and injuries from someone once per day. Best doctor ever. If the teleportation scheme fails (unlikely) at least I know I have a good chance at becoming a world famous doctor.

But now I still have a problem. I am mortal. How do I make myself immortal? Or at least immortal enough that I can choose the time of my own death?
I can think of many ways, but the one that would arise the least suspicion? I've become a huge power by now. Many will think what I am about to suggest is pure evil, and they would be right. When I am old, I will invite my chosen "heir" to receive some private advice and lessons. I will use the detect thoughts vigorously to know all I can about him. I will then use the following items when ready:
True Mindswitch 1/day = 161,200
1/day finger of death = 36,400
I'll lose a level, so I need a restoration once per day item as well. That runs 21,200
161200 + 36400 + 21200 = 218800.
Naturally, my will would leave everything to my chosen heir.
I've got 60,800 left. So, I can afford a few more small items or 1 big one and still be in my goal. Let's go ahead and grab an obsidian steed. A once per week jaunt to and from other planes might be interesting.
So now I have 32,300. Converting to cash for 15,504,000. Good amount to live off of until I start getting my teleportation business running. And I can start pimping my "doctor" skills immediately. Lots of income, a functional immortality method, a plethora of powerful abilities, and a nice little cozy home to retreat to.