3.P - Real Life. 1,000,000 gp. Magic and Psionic Items. GO!

[MaxiDuRaritry]

So. 50 gp = 1 lb. 1lb = 16 oz. 1 oz of gold = 1,500(ish) USD. 16 oz of gold = 24,000 USD. ergo, 1gp = 480. 480 * 1,000,000 = 480,000,000.

So what items are worth more than becoming an instant Millionaire?

Anything that does something that could not otherwise be done -- or at least, not without a WHOLE lot more effort.

Many spells can be used to make money IRL, fairly easily. Money, however, cannot buy magic IRL.

If you want to make lots of money, how about at will permanencied energy wall set to either fire or electricity? Voila! Infinite power generation for everyone! How about the ability to make create food and water traps? You have an infinite amount of food you can use to feed the world. At will (supernatural) true creation? You can make whatever the hell you want whenever the hell you want it. Those three abilities alone could catapult the world into a post-scarcity society, if you use them properly.

[Quertus]

Ah, I see someone mentioned "research" before I got that far in describing my plans.

I had planned on buying a couple cheap magic items for experimentation - probably a couple of Rings of Prestidigitation, and a few potions. Try to Miracle an Alamir's Fundamental Breakdown on a potion or two first, before risking one of the rings. See if understanding how to make them, plus having samples, allows mankind to replicate even magic.

Also, Boccob's Blessed Book - it doesn't cost more when filled, does it? A full spellbook to study sounds like the best I can do to get magic going. OK, actually, the second best. I could try to summon a teacher - a Wizard, or a god. I wonder if anyone has ever considered using a Necklace of Prayer Beeds to bring Magic to a new world before…

[Calthropstu]

Ah, I see someone mentioned "research" before I got that far in describing my plans.

I had planned on buying a couple cheap magic items for experimentation - probably a couple of Rings of Prestidigitation, and a few potions. Try to Miracle an Alamir's Fundamental Breakdown on a potion or two first, before risking one of the rings. See if understanding how to make them, plus having samples, allows mankind to replicate even magic.

Also, Boccob's Blessed Book - it doesn't cost more when filled, does it? A full spellbook to study sounds like the best I can do to get magic going. OK, actually, the second best. I could try to summon a teacher - a Wizard, or a god. I wonder if anyone has ever considered using a Necklace of Prayer Beeds to bring Magic to a new world before…

And thus was the world of shadowrun born...

[Quertus]

----- Immortality and Leapfrogging -----

Me as me, I can learn new skills, and improve the ones I have. To me, it sounds like the easiest way to go about improving skills (for most skills) is to alternate between having the skill and not, recording the difference, and then learning by studying my notes. Or by trying to perform the more advanced usages of the skill that I could do a minute ago, depending on the skill.

There are several low-level Cleric spells that will help with this - most notoriously Wield Skill. However, I think that items that grant a permanent +1 bonus to a skill check will be more useful. At 100 GP each (or less since, if I put them all in the same item, I should probably get a discount for profession: sailor and profession: butcher not generally being used at the same time), that seems a worthwhile investment. If I am in an "e7" world, 10 skill ranks is the maximum the greatest teacher in world could have, so "+10 bonus to teaching" should make me better than the best teacher to ever live (never mind the circumstance bonus for teaching myself). Seems a small investment to reach (and teach?) the limits of human skill.

But who wants to be restricted to human limits?

----- The Miracle of Life -----

Ultimately, I want a new form - but what form? As I've already covered, if D&D is a thing, there's very few safe forms: organic forms can be drugged/poisoned/Charmed/Dominated, let alone annoying little things like have Vorpal reactions, go into comas, or develop allergies; Undead (and Plants, and Outsiders, and…) can be Rebuked; Constructs are vulnerable to the Rod of Construct Control. And that's not counting things that cross-pollinate, letting Undead be Charmed/Dominated, for example. So, even things that I'm "immune" to, I'll still want protection from, won't I?

But there are other considerations. A lot of these forms - notedly Undead and Constructs - have their senses and… "appetites" messed with.

I like the idea of an Elan, but if (for example) I'm injured and go into a coma, I could starve to death, or be vulnerable to all kinds of nasty things. I need something even safer than that if I'm going to survive for eternity.

Looking at types, "elemental" seems possible. Yes, you can Rebuke the four classic elements, but I don't think other elements have any particular vulnerabilities. So I invent a new anthropomorphized creature, an elemental of Time, or Space, or Thought, or some more abstract concept. Let's call it a "Quertus" elemental. If I give it minimal (ie, basically human) capabilities, it should be fine for the transformation ritual for anyone.

But what about for me?

According to one unpopular theory, the number of programming languages I know (let alone the number of skills I cannot count as "untrained" in) requires me to have such high skill ranks (in "programming languages", or in total) that it makes me an epic level character (or, I suppose, a ridiculous super genius, with an Intelligence score all but unheard of outside of high epic levels), or requires that I have variants on several feats (all epic feat, iirc, still making me epic) in order to know so many languages / skills. "Back of the napkin" math from laser tag on the difference between my BAB and "average" humans similarly supports me being an epic level Expert. In this case, I could probably afford to become, say, a Paragon Q~ elemental, and get some cool things out of the deal.

On the other hand, going under the theory that programming languages don't count the same as "real" languages, and that the majority of the plethora of things I'm "trained" in don't count as skills and/or don't qualify as even half a rank "trained" in D&D logic, and that I've somehow tricked the world into lots of free BAB? Under that theory, where I'm not super epic level, and I'm just a normal part of an "e7" world, it brings up a question: given the concept of savage species progressions, does anything stop me from transforming into a "young" anything? Could I not simply transform what levels I do have into progression along a "Paragon" path (keeping all the things I apparently didn't pay for with levels, mind)? And, as long as we're talking cheese, if people are unable to earn XP / gain levels, would giving them an incomplete and uncompletable progression make them functionally immortal, as they could never stop being a "young" whatever?

Why would I do this - why would I want to become a paragon - partial or otherwise? Honestly, the biggest reason is in the hopes that it increases the chances that I can "level up", and learn D&D magic, putting that Boccob's Blessed Book to good use. If I'm low level, and D&D worlds exist, then all of these cheaty items should make leveling up easy, right? (Well, maybe not - I didn't exactly take good "adventurer" choices. ) Also, being a Paragon gives me a few bonuses that I'm missing out on by not buying better items. And it's just cool

Also, my life experiences have taught me that 2 arms are insufficient - I could certainly stand to benefit from my new form having 4 arms. Granted, unfamiliarity could cut into my attack bonus. So maybe I'll save that for Polymorph shenanigans? Nah, probably not.

Now, what about everyone else?

Obviously, I don't want to make the Chosen or their Family into something that requires levels that they don't have (and can't get?)… unless it's free bonus immortality, I suppose. And, even if it is, I can see some mean rivalry and "castes" forming around how much of that progression their lives were "worth". So… maybe not identical to my form.

Beyond that? It's complicated. Short answer, if there aren't other worlds, I don't know that I'd want to have removed the "humanity" from the Chosen if, a Google years from now, Humanity is otherwise extinct. So… I would probably want to keep them immortal via Steal Youth (or, rather, a custom reverse form, Grant Youth, that turns their clocks back while withering me (it's just pain, I'll regenerate)). And I'll give them, if possible, a custom Contingency for transformation should I somehow perish? … nah, I don't want to encourage them to off me.

Although… if the "real" them is an unaging statue, can their Astral Projection age? Are they immortal, or are they the reverse of Dorian Grey?

But, if I do find other worlds (with humans), I could make the Chosen… something, if they want. Me-lan, anthropomorphized elementals, their choice? I'm not sure about the Family, though… I guess it depends on how much space I can Genesis (ie, if there's D&D worlds and Magic Item Walmart) / whether anyone starts learning Magic (or psionics, or…). (But, as we'll see in a minute, space is a solved problem)

----- Dystopia 2: the return of Dystopia -----

I still haven't given up on my Simulacrum idea yet. And I've got a crazy new idea for an implementation: multitasking. Much like D&D gods are able to be in multiple places at once, what if I linked my mind to that of a Simulacrum of myself, and experienced its existence simultaneously with my own? So, I'll use a custom "Share Experience" spell to experience its life concurrent with my own.

If I really am in an e7 world, and there's no other worlds, then that sets the cap for what I'd need to copy… if I were just making humans. I can see the value in making Simulacra of animals, too - and, in addition to other uses, such Simulacra would make great immortal pets for the Chosen and their Family. Really, since RAW ingredients are worth ⅓ the final product, and animals are tasty, I imagine it should be easy to have variants on Mordenkainen's Magnificent Mansion along the lines of "Quertus' Pet Store" and "Quertus' livestock" - cooking need not become a lost art.

If I'm not in a strict e7 world, or if meeting high-level D&D characters is a possibility, then Simulacrum for the potential Chosen could get really expensive. I guess I'll want to plan for that. It would be silly not to prepare for at least the level I estimate myself to be.

----- The Life of Miracle -----

What am I using Miracle for? Well, I guess I'd have to say… whatever I want.

But, if I couldn't take Miracle, what would I take? I guess the answer is, "it depends". It depends on whether I have to answer all at once, or can take some Divination items first before answering.

But, just going by the effects I've used Miracle to produce so far, we've got…

(Greater?) Plane Shift
Heal
Stone to Flesh to Stone
Quertus' Dynamic Extradimensional Spaces <- Mordenkainen's Magnificent Mansion
Protection from Good/Evil/Law/Chaos/Neutrality/Donuts/Whatever
Steal Youth (?)
Grant Youth (custom reverse of Steal Youth)
Bestow Greater Curse¹

Taking them all as one-shot items, and using cheesy Astral Projection cheese, it's likely that I can afford a lot. Which brings me to my other one-shot items:

Wish / Racial Transformation
Polymorph any Object
Genesis

So, I guess, really, I could make a plane of arbitrarily large size via a 1-shot Genesis plus Astral Projection cheese.

But what would I want to cast without having to blink out of existence between castings?

Shrug. If I were trying to live in this world, it might matter. If I were trying to be an adventurer, it might matter. The biggest thing I can think of is maybe not wanting to give away when I cast Mindrape, or not wanting to miss things between castings of… Skill boosters? Healing spells? Yes, blinking out in the middle of a disaster after casting a curative spell just sounds bad.

And, of course, being able to Plane Shift multiple times - to get somewhere, and then transport people from there, at a minimum.

----- Adventuring -----

As if my thought process wasn't complex enough in other sections, here, I've got a whole series of "what ifs". Do D&D worlds exist? Can I gain XP? Do they have item shops? Can I use items beyond what I "start" with? Do the same answers apply to the Chosen? Are there multiple D&D worlds? Any worlds that I know? Any characters that I know? If there are multiple D&D worlds, do they all follow the same rules?

Maybe there's no D&D worlds, in which case any money I spend just for adventuring will be wasted. So I'll aim to keep the spending here to a minimum (and/or on things that are useful elsewhere), and hope to pick up more adventurer gear if, you know, adventuring actually is a thing.

----- Adventuring 101 -----

My advice to most parties is to make sure that they have a magical weapon; I suppose I should follow that advice. If laser tag is any indication, I've got a plenty high BAB. IIRC, calculations from Hank's Bow indicate that "unlimited ammo" and "dynamic strength bonus" run about 1k each. So, if I don't know how things will turn out, I may spend 3k for a +1 firearm with unlimited ammo, and 4k for a +1 bow with unlimited ammo and dynamic pull.

For melee, I would love the coolness points of having a lightsaber, or "my" katana, but, even if they were able to be priced, they probably wouldn't be worth it to me. However, 2k for a +1 katana that sheds light (with a pistol in the other hand) may sufficiently confuse opposition (whether they were familiar with technology or not) to be worth the price.

These should do enough damage at low level, but at high level? Well, if I'm me, running under my physics, maybe everyone else is running under my physics, too - in which case, a bullet or an arrow through a body can really crimp one's style (or, you know, even be fatal). So I might not need more damage, at least against squishy organic foes. And, if I'm actually needing improvements, upgrading to the full "Hank's Bow" package later is probably a possibility.

If I'm leveling up, hopefully I'm getting levels as a Wizard. Although… being ~10 levels behind in a casting class because of race is certainly not a Playground-approved tactic, and might be a small problem. If I'm already high level, hopefully I can rebuild these Expert levels to Wizard - and I definitely can do so if I can get access to one of my worlds in particular.

The second big thing I prioritize is the ability to run away. Astral Projection kinda has that covered in spades, but Boots of Striding only cost 2k. And, really, I would probably enjoy "comfy shoes of move real fast" IRL. So they're in.

Even cheaper is to give my mount Horseshoes of Speed. Except… what is my mount? With ranged attacks, it's not quite as essential that I have a flying mount. But it would still be handy - both to fly over terrain, and to get away from BSFs who aren't clever enough to take either a source of flying or ranged attacks themselves. Not to mention the value of staying out of other ranges - from sneak attack to Beholder eye rays to Hydra breath weapons, there's an enormous number of things that it's nice to just straight up avoid via range, and being able to move quickly and in a 3rd dimension just makes doing so that much easier.

There's probably little debate that the coolest flying mount would be a Dragon. And dragons are fast, and tough. IIRC, Dragon eggs run upwards of 10k GP. And, being me, I'll want a custom Dragon, one that uses "Orange and Blue" (ie, not D&D) morality for its "always X" alignment (most people seem to agree that even D&D Exalted Good is or can be real-world evil - I want my Dragons to actually be good, in a meaningful way, and I'll happily code that into their DNA). But there are several problems. Obviously, I'd need to boost my skills to train the Dragon. Even then, over an infinite timeframe… aren't Dragons mortal? Maybe True Reincarnation might return it to a usable mount after it dies of old age. Lastly, do Dragons / Dragon eggs count as magical items? Is it actually legal in this thought experiment for me to buy one?

But the idea of a Dragon is just too good to pass up. As I already said, Dragons can eat anything, so they can use Purify Food and Drink on anything. So… maybe a petrified Dragon egg that fell on & killed a monster, giving it XP, which it spent on its own Sculpt Self for Purify Food and Drink… would count as a magical item?

As it can eat anything, the Dragon technically could be the solution to waste disposal for the Chosen & their Family.

Lastly, Dragons get spells. Maybe we could learn magic from them.

Yes, them. Cloning is a thing IRL. If I had a Dragon, and interacted with this world, I have little doubt that someone would be willing to clone Dragons. Also, I'm giving myself every skill through leapfrogging. Eventually, that should include the ability to successfully build cloning technology all by myself. Even if I have to store individual components in Quintessence while I build other things.

Speaking of cloning & learning magic, I just want to point out "Hand of the Mage". Maybe I could even specify whose hand it is, and Resurrect myself an awesome magic tutor. (Rimuru's voice: "Elfs! Elfs!")

Um… mechanically, there's nothing that keeps Elves from being resurrected in 3e, like there was in 2e, right?

And speaking of specificity cheese, if I'm buying spellcasting services, if I can specify who is doing the casting, well, that could give me the opportunity to meet dependable magical allies, and therefore (among other things) both find magical tutors (yay!) and a way to be resurrected (thus making the "0% failure" I've been trying to build towards not quite so essential).

If I cannot buy a Dragon egg with my starting funds, there's always Undead Dragons, and Dragon Effigies - perhaps they count as magical items. Speaking of, if I cannot take Miracle, I should probably take Cure Light Wounds (reversible) and, uh, Repair Light Damage or whatever. If I go adventuring, you never know what allies I might have.

(On a related note, Faith Heal, set to every known religion, would make for an interesting information-gathering tool. If anyone cared.)

Worst case scenario, I can use PaO cheese to breed some Dragons.

Hmmm… what else is good for adventuring? I encourage people to get "fixers", so a 1-shot True Resurrection, 1-shot True Reincarnation, 1-shot (Greater?) Restoration. And rerolls, so 1-shot Fate of One, and Resurgence at will.

Lastly, illusions seem a Playground favorite to deal with a plethora of mindless foes, so I should add that to my toolkit, too.

So, as an adventurer, with Miracle, I'm primarily a "caster" unit. Without Miracle, I'll provide unlimited (out of combat) healing, RDPS at low level (and maybe later, if physics or shops allow), Minionmancy (via Simulacrum (not my usual Animate Dead, because ick), and I'm a skill monkey (via training / leapfrogging & spells). Plus maybe I'm learning spells. I think I can legitimately say that I'm a valuable addition to a similar-level adventuring party, and not The Load. I think that the worst case scenario would be if I were an epic level Expert with a single level of Wizard, and no Miracle, in a world that ran on HP rather than my physics. I think that that would be the scenario under which it might be the most difficult for me to find parties where I could earn XP and still feel useful. Of course, I don't have to earn XP to get loot. So I'm not opposed to joining lower level parties if necessary, providing them with power cheats and me with loot. But a 20th level "duel 9's" Simulacrum (perhaps the materials could be bargained for when I hire spellcasting services (or cheesed out of a spell component pouch, but I actively attempt to disbelieve that particular cheese)) - or several such caster minions, for that matter - might help me hold my own even at epic levels.

If I were to add anything else adventurer-worthy that would be generally useful to me, I think I'd have to go for items to boost Sense Motive. Preferably to epic levels (although that gets expensive real fast - even 20 different slotless +5 bonuses would run 100,000 GP (10% of my total budget), so it's not something I can just do on a whim. Maybe later, if adventuring and item shops are a thing…).

----- worksheet -----

According to my math, I'm at 1,033,000 GP. And that's without the Hand of the Mage to Resurrect, meeting people through spellcasting services, or the ultimate cheese (I didn't explicitly put the components together in my various posts - can anyone guess the recipe?).

Probably the thing that would have to get the axe first is the "experimentation" budget. So I guess Boccob's Blessed Book will have to be a "if D&D and magic item Walmart exist, I'll pick it up later" purchase. Which sounds backwards - I'll only purchase training materials if I'm already in "easy mode".

So, I guess I'll hope that 17k will suffice for everything I've missed: alternative methods of acquiring tutors, my own personal betterment / comfort / amusement, real world funds, etc.

1,000 GP will buy 100 caster-levels of Spellcasting services. Buying 0-level spells, that's 200 levels of casters I get to meet. And, if I buy a Cleric Cantrip from a Wizard 19 / Cleric 1, that only counts as 1 level of casters spent. And 900 GP buys a Hand of the Mage. If I get to choose the details, I think between 200 levels of optimized "meet and greet", and one elven Resurrection, odds are good that I'll have a tutor, and learn magic (if, you know, me learning magic is possible in this thought experiment).

Heward's Handy Haversack is, well, handy - but I'm not sure of its fail conditions (will it work in my pocket dimension? Will it explode if fed the wrong contents? Etc). So, maybe something with similar performance characteristics, but as built by me, rather than by team "yay it explodes great!". Something with potentially completely different underlying mechanics to get functionally the same result.

Except… real me? I'm not exactly thrilled about the concept of getting into a fight with a backpack on. I mean, I'm not thrilled about the idea of getting into a fight to begin with, but, unlike in D&D, real me would prefer not to be wearing a backpack if I have to fight.

So, here, I might consider combining some tech. An Enveloping Pit normally runs 3.6k. putting it in a slotted item - say a psionic skin - should make that 1.8k. If you actually can combine that with H³ tech… eh, when the forums come back up, I may see what math others used. But Handy Enveloping Skin (of Disguise?) sounds fun.

Oh. I haven't mentioned the second biggest cheese I was considering at all yet. Well, here goes: a 1-shot item of Permanency. Sadly, that's… 500 XP + 1 caster level (which translates to 2,550 GP) per level of the spell to affect, on top of a base 1,750 GP. To be able to make 3rd level spells - which include things like Flight and Tongues - permanent would cost 9,400 GP. I'm not sure, by RAW, if someone else (ie, me) casting Tongues on one of my Chosen actually lets them Permanency it on themselves, though, should my astral projection hand it off to them. So this particular bit of cheese may be fairly useless. Subsequently, I think I'll file it away under "if I can buy more items later".

Costing chump change, however, is a 1-shot item of Continual Flame. I can create nightlights for the Chosen and all of the Family. (I should reread Miracle, to see if this is even needed, or if the component cost of Continual Flame is within Miracle's budget)

Miracle is great, but one thing it cannot really duplicate well is immediate actions. An investment of 2k gets one of the best of these, Nerveskitter, at will. And, unlike many "combat" items, this would be useful in many ways IRL. Maybe not $200,000+ useful, but still.

324,000 at will Miracle, as a super power via Sculpt Self
-----
398,000 at will Astral Projection
32,650 Ring of 1 Wish / 1-shot transformation ritual
12,650 1-shot Genesis
12,650 1-shot True Resurrection
12,650 1-shot True Reincarnation
7,650 1-shot Mindrape
7,650 1-shot Teleport Through Time
7,650 1-shot Regeneration
7,650 1-shot Mordenkainen's Disjunction
6,000 1-shot Mind Blank
1,000 Infinity Gauntlet of Least Wish (Ring of Prestidigitation)
506,200 subtotal
----- for greater dystopia -----
23,750 1-shot Simulacrum
7,650 1-shot Share Experience
31,400 subtotal
----- for the Chosen -----
40,000 Heal trap
18,000 Create Food and Water
4,000 At will Prestidigitation x4
18,000 Make Whole
Continual Flame x?
80,000 subtotal
----- for experimentation -----
50,000 Boccob's Blessed Book
2,000 Ring of Prestidigitation x2
150 1-charge wands x10 (x20 if cantrips)
Hand of the Mage
5,750 Headband Slap Bracelet of 100 skills +1
2,500 Headband of Teaching +5
60,400 subtotal
----- for "adventuring" -----
3,000 firearm of infinite ammo +1
4,000 dynamic strength bow of infinite ammo +1
2,000 glowing katana +1
2,000 Comfy Shoes of Move Real Fast <- boots of Striding
10,000 petrified Quertian Dragon egg
10,000 Sense Motive +5 (slotless, x2)
31,000 subtotal
----- if no Miracle, then maybe… -----
7,650 1-shot Bestow Greatest Curses
3,200 1-shot Polymorph any Object
Grant Youth
Greater Plane Shift
Heal
Stone to Flesh to Stone
Quertus' Dynamic Extradimensional Spaces <- Mordenkainen's Magnificent Mansion
1500 foci for 100 different destinations - note that I may want to start with some of these anyway, just in case
Protection from Donuts
Alamir's Fundamental Breakdown
Contingent Teleport
Contingent Dismissal
Remove Curse
2,000 Wield Skill at will
2,000 Cure Light Wounds at will
2,000 Repair Minor Damage at will
2,000 Resurgence at will
2,000 Silent Image at will

----- The Visual ----

I guess I'll want to remain recognizable to those who know me, so… I guess new race + me would be… imagine if Dr. Manhattan came from a Viking lineage. And had 4 arms. One wields a glowing katana (although, IRL, I'm more comfortable wielding one 2-handed), another aims a pistol (which, some day, may be firing energy bolts alla Hank's Bow). The other two (one sporting an Infinity Gauntlet) are not reaching for the bow on my back - no, they are holding tight to the reins of a shiny silver Dragon with a curious rainbow fin tail (that's an appearance for a Dragon that doesn't exist in any official material, right?).

----- Fail States -----

Sure, there's a lot of ways in which my choices are suboptimal, and potential scenarios where I'd want to do things differently, but are there any straight-up fail cases?

Yes.

The first is, if the transformation (or, if successful, the acquisition of spellcasting) changes which physics I operate under. That is, if, by becoming a Quertus elemental, or by gaining Wizard levels, I switch to D&D logic, and lose the ability to grow except through XP/leveling, then several of my plans - such as leapfrogging - will fail. This will be especially problematic if D&D worlds do not otherwise exist, and I therefore cannot really get items or XP to advance D&D-style. At this point, "real" me and "Simulacrum" me would be all but indistinguishable.

Another fail state is if the purpose of this exercise was to have us interact with this world. There's a lot in this world worth preserving, just… the bulk of humanity not only isn't on that list (IMO), but actively makes preserving what's good in this world difficult. My ideas to make the world a better place would generally involve selectively and drastically reducing the human population (making Thanos look like an underachiever), and/or mass Mindrape the entire world - neither of which are within the scope of this exercise.

Yes, if I count as epic level, and can retain those levels to caster (Wizard) levels, -- or -- if adventuring is a thing, and I can make it to epic Wizard levels, -- or --… then, yes, I could acquire epic casting, and implement such solutions. But that has little to do with the thought experiment of spending 1 million GP.

Thus, I prefer to leave humanity to fail on their own merits, while removing myself and the Chosen to an eternal recollection of what humanity once was.

The Family will, of course, fail in completely human ways. Short of preventing their existence, I doubt that there's much that I can do about that.

Except… as horrific is this sounds, isn't human suffering necessary to produce Art? That is, in a "perfect" world, could Van Gogh have produced Starry Night? In a "perfect" world, would we have Star Wars, or Grapes of Wrath, or Romeo and Juliet, or Kilkelly? If an omnipotent being retroactively removed the worst parts of humanity, would they not also remove much of what I like best?

I lack the desire to weigh such morality. As such, I have no interest in imposing a mandatory "fix" to humanity. An opt-in fix? Sure, that I would do. So, I might give humanity the option to live in a better world as better people… but it takes so long to Mindrape, Polymorph, and Plane Shift people to a new world that I would likely be unable to fulfill demand, let alone fix the entire world that way. And even those slow tools are suboptimal compared to the level of "fixing" of humanity that I would desire. So the items, at best, provide a means (contacts, travel, survivability) for me to acquire what I would need (epic levels) to go this route.

On the "this world" front… suppose I did decide to try to make the world better. Well, the idea of a "post-scarcity society" is a myth, a pipe dream. It's human nature - and nature's nature, for that matter - to grow to consume all available resources. No matter what finite amount of resources I add, humanity will grow to consume them. If I create a truly - or functionally - infinite supply of one resource, then humanity will grow until a different resource becomes a limiting factor: food, shelter, air, space, light, whatever.

Short of significant changes to reality, and/or significant changes to humanity / human culture to deny their nature, the only way I know to implement a post-scarcity society is to introduce a perfect predator: one which will maintain the population at "no scarcity" levels.

So, if I am best represented as an epic level expert, as my numbers suggest, and if I have the opportunity to convert those to epic Wizard levels, and if I can develop an appropriate epic level spell, then I could create a post-scarcity society by creating a perfect predator which would constantly (or periodically) monitor population, and, if it exceeded the desired amount, would kill off the {oldest / most immoral / least productive / whatever particular criteria we choose} members of the population to force it back into balance.

This would, of course, simply encourage the target population to engage in murder / force abortions / whatever in preservation of their own lives. It's great dystopia material, IMO.

Alternately, I could hit the problem from the other end, and create an epic dwoemer of infertility, that simply didn't allow for the possibility of reproduction until the population fell below acceptable levels. This, of course, would encourage people to commit murder in order to make room for them to have children, engaging in procreative acts immediately after murder (or even natural death) to increase the odds of successful fertilization. Once again, great potential dystopia material.

No matter how you slice it, post-scarcity humanity just isn't a pretty picture.

So, what could I do? Hmmm… from pollution to germ warfare to nuclear war, we have so many ways to potentially prematurely exterminate the species, long before the death of the sun, or the heat death of the universe. At best, I suppose, I could attempt to introduce a method of exterminating the species that involves minimal collateral damage. And I would try to position that method as the optimal genocide. Happily, I believe that introducing Dragons fulfills those criteria nicely. Dragons are highly optimized weapons of death that actually care about art and treasure. Dragons are, in 3e, smarter and wiser than humans. And my Dragons are "always Good" (for a non-D&D definition of "good").

Germ warfare? Good luck. What's the Fort DC (and, also, Cure Disease). Pollution? Purify Food and Drink. Radiation? Um… Purify Food and Drink? Dragons aren't likely to fall easily to human genocide, making them weapons that change the battlefield, and redefine what a genocidal "victory" looks like.

And, if allowed to breed with humans, they'll produce a physically and mentally superior species that is "always good". And that, I suppose, is the way that I would prefer for humanity to make itself extinct: through voluntary self-improvement of the species.

So, with Infinite Finite Cosmic Power, the best I can think to do for humanity at large is to save them at their best, help them die well, and remember them kindly after they're gone.

I look forward to someone convincing me of something better.


¹ I haven't actually mentioned that in this thread, but this is (short of Miracle) my nuclear deterrent. Sure, you oppose anyone else, they can potentially kill you. You threaten what I care about, you make me angry, and I'll shatter your psyche into its component pieces and send them hurling through the void. They will each have, uncomprehending, been begging for the sweet release of death for a million years before I consider finally releasing my curse. And that's assuming you didn't make me angry enough to actually get creative, and put any effort into your punishment. Maybe I should invest in a stronger version of Bestow Curse, just to be safe. Also, I think I'll add a deterrent that's easier to understand: Mordenkainen's Disjunction.

[Maat Mons]

Ten and a half pages at type size 12, with 0.79-inch margins.

[Quertus]

Ten and a half pages at type size 12, with 0.79-inch margins.

Lol. Consider it my not-so-subtle threat: if the forums go back down, and I'm forced to obsess over the single post I have Gmail, this is what it will look like. Nobody wants that.

[Blackhawk748]

Tatoo of 3/Day Greater Teleport with the appropriate shenanigans to make it cheaper.
Tatoo of At-Will Extended Alter Self at CL 20 with the same cost decreasing shenanigans.

Not sure what that comes out to, cuz Im too lazy to look it up right now, but with that I can literally be whatever I want for about 5 hours at an activation with teh ability to flip whenever I want and I can just pop in wherever i want so I don't need to fly places.

Whatever's left get's liquidated into cash.

[unseenmage]

Magic resetting trap with several spells including

Energy Transformarion Fields for several spells

Summon Elysian Thrush whose SU powers ETFs

several True Creations for special materials set so the material conjured falls into place like puzzle pieces with the resulting assemblage being roughly humanoid

Minor Servitor and Awaken Sand to animate said materials

and a side of Simulacrum and Mirror Travel for farming duplicates

if Wish were allowed itd be use to set the ETFs in Craft Contingent Spell items instead

and be used to modify the spell generated Constructs using the MIC item combining rules and the Constructs Are Magic Items rules interpretation



low op?

Create Crawling Claw trap. As of Lost Empires of Faerun Crawling Claws are swarms. The spell never says you cany use the severed left hand of statues or I guess even paintings or whatever.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

If it were allowed (which it's not*), would an item of shadow miracle from a shadowcraft mage allow anyone to cast miracle as a 0 level spell? And would the cost be of a cantrip or a 9th?

I'm not 100% sure on how items made by unusual characters work, honestly.






*That's basically because I want interesting answers, not "I want wish/miracle too!" like literally everyone would be saying, otherwise.

[AvatarVecna]

If it were allowed (which it's not*), would an item of shadow miracle from a shadowcraft mage allow anyone to cast miracle as a 0 level spell? And would the cost be of a cantrip or a 9th?

I'm not 100% sure on how items made by unusual characters work, honestly.






*That's basically because I want interesting answers, not "I want wish/miracle too!" like literally everyone would be saying, otherwise.

My gut feeling for how it would work is that it doesn't work like that. Items can sometimes replicate spells and abilities you have, and pathfinder makes it explicit that metamagic can be a part of that, but building class features into items for the sole purpose of affecting the other effects within the item isn't something you can do by default.

By default, with rules support, you can build existing items, or you can build 'custom' items that replicate specific effects as described on the provided table. Going outside of that is almost certain allowed, but the specifics of how it works don't currently have rules for them.

Like...as some examples, maybe you've got a staff that gives you Empower Spell and lets you cast a bunch of spells; unless you have an ability letting you apply metamagic to staves, you can't use Empower on the staff spells even though the staff is what gave you Empower. It wouldn't be difficult to assign a price to the ability to use built-in metamagic on the attached items spells, or to assign a price to the ability to apply metamagic to staff spells in general, but because there isn't a RAW metric to go off, it's not anything guaranteed.

Tye fact that a particular combination of feats and class features could be read as letting you cast 100% real miracles at-will out of 0th level slots doesn't mean you can build all that into an item. A gnome wozard could make an item of Silent Image as a 0th lvl spell cuz that's what it is on their list, but that's about as far as it stretches - and even that's only feasoble hecause a spell being different levels for different people is in Core.

[the_tick_rules]

Expect numerous edits as I revise. By the way in MIC it kind of says adding common abilities can be considered not using the 1.5x rule. Specifically the last sentence of improving magic items on 233. However I will include the 1.5 until directed otherwise. Also if anyone asks I am assuming this to be used in our world which affects choices. Let's face it throwing fireballs around will get some cops asking what's up and you don't need evil outsider bane weapons when hitting other people.

Head: Helm of Teleportation (73,500)+ Helm of Detect Thoughts (40,500)+ Hat of disguise (2,700)+ Helm of Comprehend Languages and Read Magic (7,800)+ Crystal Mask of (5) Languages (3,750)=128,250

Face/Eyes: Eyes of Charming (56,000)+ Third Eye of sense (36,000)+Crystal Mask of Insight (30,000)+ Goggles of Draconic Vision (24,000)+Crystal Mask of discernment (15,000)=161,000

Shoulders: Wings of Flying=54,000

Throat: Periapt of Proof Against Poison (27,000)+ Amulet of Natural Armor +2 (12,000)+ Periapt of Health (11,100)+ Necklace of Adaptation (13,000)=63,100

Weapon 1: +5 Collision, Distance, Compound Longbow +3 Strength Pull with Least Crystal of Return=128,700

Weapon 2: +2 Adamantine Dagger with Least Crystal of Return=11,302

Armor: +5 Heavily fortified Mithral Chainshirt with Least Adaptation Crystal=101,600

Torso: Vest of Resistance +3=9,000

Ring 1: Ring of Invisibility=20,000

Ring 2+Ring of arming (5,000)+Ring of Sustenance (3,750)=8,750

Waist: Belt of Magnificence +6=200,000

Feet: Gwaeron's Boots (6,000)+ Vanguard Treads (4,650)=10,650

Miscellaneous: Psychoactive Skin of the Troll (60,000)+ Personal Oasis (4,600)+ Quiver of Anariel with Adamantine Arrows (34,000), Heward's Handy Haversack (2,000)+ Magic Bedroll (500)=101,100

Grand total=997,452

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Expect numerous edits as I revise. By the way in MIC it kind of says adding common abilities can be considered not using the 1.5x rule. Specifically the last sentence of improving magic items on 233. However I will include the 1.5 until directed otherwise.

Use the MIC rules, which include no surcharge on specific items (such as save- and stat-boosters). Might be a good idea to use the belt of magnificence, since who wouldn't want to have +6 to all stats? It's cheaper than getting +6 to everything normally, and only utilizes one body slot (not that that matters, if you're filling up slots anyway).

[the_tick_rules]

Use the MIC rules, which include no surcharge on specific items (such as save- and stat-boosters). Might be a good idea to use the belt of magnificence, since who wouldn't want to have +6 to all stats?

I do not know of this belt, tell me more.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

I do not know of this belt, tell me more.

+2, +4, or +6 enhancement bonus to all stats. All of them. The +6 is 200,000 gp, which is quite a bit less than getting six +6s. It's in the Miniatures Handbook.

[the_tick_rules]

I don't have that book, but that is what the internet is for. I might edit later but I have a pretty good combo. I specifically geared it for something that would operate well in a non-magical society and would provide complete autonomy in event of some collapse of society or anything that would remove modern comforts. I'm trying to find room for helm of detect thoughts, knowing what people are thinking has so much potential. And I found it, now I need to find way to speak all languages, I guess 5 will do..

[Maat Mons]

Speaking of MIC page 234, I have a question.

It says you can, for example, add a +5 Resistance bonus to saves to any Shoulder-slot or Torso-slot item for 36,000 gp. This price clearly does not have markups for extra abilities or for non-associated slot.

Do these rules do anything if I want to add a +5 Resistance bonus to save to, say, a Throat-slot item? A strict reading seems to say "no." The price only holds for the listed body slots. So the bonus to a Throat-slot item does, in fact, still have the x1.5 cost markup for multiple abilities. (But not the cost markup for non-associated slot, because protection is an associated effect for the Throat slot.)

But it also says the DM could choose to apply these costs to items on other slots. So, MaxiDuRaritry, you're the DM here, what say you?

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Speaking of MIC page 234, I have a question.

It says you can, for example, add a +5 Resistance bonus to saves to any Shoulder-slot or Torso-slot item for 36,000 gp. This price clearly does not have markups for extra abilities or for non-associated slot.

Do these rules do anything if I want to add a +5 Resistance bonus to save to, say, a Throat-slot item? A strict reading seems to say "no." The price only holds for the listed body slots. So the bonus to a Throat-slot item does, in fact, still have the x1.5 cost markup for multiple abilities. (But not the cost markup for non-associated slot, because protection is an associated effect for the Throat slot.)

But it also says the DM could choose to apply these costs to items on other slots. So, MaxiDuRaritry, you're the DM here, what say you?

I certainly don't see why you shouldn't be able to toss common abilities on different slots for no additional cost, if you want.

Really, I think that rule was to keep people from just loading everything onto a single item for...balance purposes...I guess? I dunno. I mean, I don't care, so go ahead.

[the_tick_rules]

Speaking of MIC page 234, I have a question.

It says you can, for example, add a +5 Resistance bonus to saves to any Shoulder-slot or Torso-slot item for 36,000 gp. This price clearly does not have markups for extra abilities or for non-associated slot.

Do these rules do anything if I want to add a +5 Resistance bonus to save to, say, a Throat-slot item? A strict reading seems to say "no." The price only holds for the listed body slots. So the bonus to a Throat-slot item does, in fact, still have the x1.5 cost markup for multiple abilities. (But not the cost markup for non-associated slot, because protection is an associated effect for the Throat slot.)

But it also says the DM could choose to apply these costs to items on other slots. So, MaxiDuRaritry, you're the DM here, what say you?

It is his thread so he can make the guidelines as he wishes. But I swear there is something I read somewhere that says something that doesn't match the slot can be done at double cost instead of 1.5.

[Quertus]

It is his thread so he can make the guidelines as he wishes. But I swear there is something I read somewhere that says something that doesn't match the slot can be done at double cost instead of 1.5.

I think, at that point, you may as well make it slotless…

[the_tick_rules]

I think, at that point, you may as well make it slotless…

Making it slotless doubles the cost, or is that just if you are making your own? Plus the MIC has rules for adding common abilities at cost instead of 1.5. Maybe if there is a 50% jump say common abilities can be added out of slot at 1.5 instead of 1?

[Malphegor]

Heward’s Handy Haversack. My job is basically over with the auto-sorting capabilities of that 2000 gold item, stuff paperwork inside it then draw it out as required

Next, a ring of sustenance and a set of robes of endure elements. For general survival needs, I no longsr need to eat. I can wear pajamas under my swanky robes in the depths of winter.

Next I’d find a eternal wand of vigor to be useful for aches and scrapes.

Maybe a quil of scribing... I mean, my phone can autodictate but come on, style points.

Next, cloak of charisma, as I am lacking in that.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

I'd like a haversack + a deck of many things. Toss the latter in the former, then choose which cards to draw out.

[the_tick_rules]

That is clever. Though personally I would say you could draw the entire deck but not an individual card.

[Jack_Simth]

+2, +4, or +6 enhancement bonus to all stats. All of them. The +6 is 200,000 gp, which is quite a bit less than getting six +6s. It's in the Miniatures Handbook.

If you're using all the slots (and with the MiC "common effect" rules in play, it doesn't really cost the slots), the savings is less than 10%: 6 * 36,000 = 216,000 for all six +6 stat boosters individually, vs. 200,000 for the Belt of Magnificence. Savings of 16k. Still, it is a savings.

Expect numerous edits as I revise. By the way in MIC it kind of says adding common abilities can be considered not using the 1.5x rule. Specifically the last sentence of improving magic items on 233. However I will include the 1.5 until directed otherwise. Also if anyone asks I am assuming this to be used in our world which affects choices. Let's face it throwing fireballs around will get some cops asking what's up and you don't need evil outsider bane weapons when hitting other people.

You're investing 17% of your wealth into weapons (and not even the "utility" type). How often do you actually need to try and kill someone in real life? Sure, some defense against getting hit is just good sense (you only need to get hit once in real life), but your basic firearm will do just fine for most situations where you'd be carrying sharp metal things.

I'd be inclined to drop those, pick up a Skin of Proteous instead of the Skin of the Troll, drop the basic +X's on the defensive-only items and pick up things like "invulnerability" for armor properties.

Edit: Although really, with Pathfinder in the mix? Memory of Function makes a wonderful spell to duplicate out of a Ring of Three Wishes or a Luckblade (and back onto same) due to the "If the object uses charges, the object becomes fully charged" clause in that spell.

[Calthropstu]

I'd like a haversack + a deck of many things. Toss the latter in the former, then choose which cards to draw out.

That doesn't work. The haversack has "Deck of Many Things" not "cards from Deck of Many Things". You go to pull out an item from the sack, it will put out "Deck of Many things."

[Calthropstu]

If you're using all the slots (and with the MiC "common effect" rules in play, it doesn't really cost the slots), the savings is less than 10%: 6 * 36,000 = 216,000 for all six +6 stat boosters individually, vs. 200,000 for the Belt of Magnificence. Savings of 16k. Still, it is a savings.


You're investing 17% of your wealth into weapons (and not even the "utility" type). How often do you actually need to try and kill someone in real life? Sure, some defense against getting hit is just good sense (you only need to get hit once in real life), but your basic firearm will do just fine for most situations where you'd be carrying sharp metal things.

I'd be inclined to drop those, pick up a Skin of Proteous instead of the Skin of the Troll, drop the basic +X's on the defensive-only items and pick up things like "invulnerability" for armor properties.

Edit: Although really, with Pathfinder in the mix? Memory of Function makes a wonderful spell to duplicate out of a Ring of Three Wishes or a Luckblade (and back onto same) due to the "If the object uses charges, the object becomes fully charged" clause in that spell.

Luck Blade doesn't use charges. It has a "number of wishes." Similar wording on the ring. The ring has 3 one use items - rubies - with wishes stored. Not charges of Wish.

[Hackulator]

I'm not going to go custom items cause I feel like it makes it too easy.

Lyre of Building
Wings of Flying
Ring of Invisibility
Ring of Nine Lives
Periapt of Health
Helm of Telepathy
Decanter of Endless Water
Belt of Magnificence +6
Boots of Teleportation
+4 tomes of every stat but Con

With this I can make almost infinite wealth if not just take over the ****ing world and I'm unlikely to die of anything but old age. The Wings of Flying are mainly for fun.

[Telonius]

I'm losing my hearing and have several family members with a connective tissue disorder (Ehlers Danlos); getting sick generally is also a drag. So first on the list would be one scroll Remove Blindness/Deafness 375gp) and an Eternal Wand of Remove Disease (10900) to get rid of those illnesses and any future maladies. Three scrolls of Regenerate to kind of reboot their current collagen (6825gp).

Basically anything above that is just icing on the cake. An eternal wand of Alter Self (4420gp) since that would be too much fun to pass up. Rod of Security (61000gp) would be nice. I'd have to think about the rest.

[Sinner's Garden]

I'm losing my hearing and have several family members with a connective tissue disorder (Ehlers Danlos); getting sick generally is also a drag. So first on the list would be one scroll Remove Blindness/Deafness 375gp) and an Eternal Wand of Remove Disease (10900) to get rid of those illnesses and any future maladies. Three scrolls of Regenerate to kind of reboot their current collagen (6825gp).

Basically anything above that is just icing on the cake. An eternal wand of Alter Self (4420gp) since that would be too much fun to pass up. Rod of Security (61000gp) would be nice. I'd have to think about the rest.

It's a pretty generous assortment of funds. You might as well take a 1/day heal and regenerate item. Or even at will, if you're really lost for things to get.

[SimonMoon6]

I'd be thinking primarily of two things, one of which has already been mentioned (at will Shape Change item). The other item I would want is an at will (or maybe 1/day) item of True Mind Switch. After all, even with a lot of shenanigans, you're gonna still get old and wouldn't it be nice to just hop into a younger person's body at some point? And you could also hop into a millionaire's body, deposit his money into a secret account (not necessarily ALL of his money, just enough), then switch into another millionaire's body, etc. , until you're tired of that and then hop into an 18 year old's body and get all the money from your account and live your new life. (And yes, you have to prepare in advance to get your True Mind Switch item back... tie up (or handcuff) your body then switch then go visit your old body before they get free and figure out what's going on and take your item back.)

Unlimited money plus unlimited youth is pretty good for the real world.

But, yeah, also shape change stuff.

And with the leftover gold, maybe get some unlimited items of healing, curing, etc to go save the sick and the dying.

I'm also thinking of Control Weather to help prevent disasters but that might be too much.