They Weren't So Smart

[Pex]

I started playing D&D with 2E in college. Despite my tyrannical DM issues I really did enjoy playing. There were such fascinating adventures. When I gave DMing a try I found it so hard to come up with adventures. I couldn't get the details others had, and I made a lot of mistakes I've long since corrected. As a player, though, the fun continued.

Now here I am DMing a 5E game. I'm using adventures I made up in my 2E days with necessary fixes and a couple I made during 3E. The campaign is going pretty well, but I'm running out of material and need to think of new stuff. I need filler before the party plays a particular adventure meant to be a climax. A player offered some help. He had in his possession lots of modules created in the past that were updated for 5E, fan service material. Glad for the help I read them to choose which ones I want to use.

As I'm reading I get feelings of deja view vu. Too many deja view vu. It can't be a coincidence. It's not deja view vu. It's memory. I played that module. And that one. And that one. And that one. Those games I played way back when in college were these modules. I didn't know these modules existed at the time. The DMs didn't make them up. No wonder it was so easy for them but hard for me.

Using these modules have been a great help. I adapt them to fit my gameworld, but what they provide are the ideas and concepts of how the adventure clicks. They provide dungeon layouts and monster choices I need I wouldn't have thought of myself. Though my own peculiarities as a DM are there, I finally feel like I'm running a game as I played before.

[Zhorn]

The older I get and the more I get to experience stuff around me from my past, the more I realise just how common it is for folks to pretend someone else's work was their own creation.
As a DM, it does make sense to keep your players in the dark as to if the game is being lifted from a module, as it help lessen the temptation to read ahead (yes it is a faux pas, but we all know someone who'll shameless jump to the end if given the chance), but after the game is over, taking credit for something not of your own making should be more commonly frowned upon.
Glad to hear you're getting inspired by those earlier modules to deliver on an adventure you can feel proud of running.

Too many deja view.

Spoiler: Needs more eurobeat

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deja view vu (don't worry, you're not the first to make that one)

[Willie the Duck]

As I'm reading I get feelings of deja view.

Déjà vu, unless you mean the Canadian cable company.

The DMs didn't make them up. No wonder it was so easy for them but hard for me.

Using these modules have been a great help. I adapt them to fit my gameworld, but what they provide are the ideas and concepts of how the adventure clicks. They provide dungeon layouts and monster choices I need I wouldn't have thought of myself. Though my own peculiarities as a DM are there, I finally feel like I'm running a game as I played before.

I think 'They Weren't So Smart' is perhaps a response colored by them being the tyrannical DMs in question. However, yes, they weren't so unbelievably capable as to have come up with massive, far reaching campaigns and adventures and dungeons or whatever they did that was good, all while also studying for finals and living away from home for the first time (or whatever else college looked like for them and yourself). I have met three general types of good DMs -- 1) those that have ridiculous amounts of free time and can make meticulously detailed campaign notes and plans and contingencies; 2) people with a (natural, plus experience-honed skill) ability to improvise, and who are engaging enough that you the player don't care when there is a logical inconsistency (because no one can improvise so well as to replace the long hours example #1 put into things); and 3) people who know their limitations and can successfully work outside aids into their work.

[Pex]

I know. Vu. My fingers don't type what I think.

I was being facetious in the title.

[Guizonde]

my first real dnd campaign was from a module called return to the temple of elemental evil. my dm told me straight up what it was, and even spoiled it for the team insomuch as he said it was 3 brutally attritious dungeon crawls one after the other. so to spice it up, he added vast amounts of story to pad the time between dungeons. it was great, and the only time we knew we were playing the module was when he busted out the battlemap and drew dungeons that didn't fit his usual style of construction. iirc, his module was 2e and we were playing 3.5, so the "down time" (read: off the rails adventure) helped us get to the level required not to wipe out in the upcoming dungeon.

i tried to run a pathfinder module (couldn't tell you the name except it involved the star gate in riddle-port and some drow), but i figured 2 things: first, i hate the d20 system because i can't understand it, and second i prefer being off the rails to have more leeway in case of player hijinks. i make for a poor d20 gm, and although i see the appeal of modules, i don't enjoy it.

my first campaign that i ran, i was completely off the rails. i took a hacksaw to whfrp 2e's ruleset, cribbed some straight off dark heresy, and dumbed down the rules so that a total newbie to pen and paper could figure out how to play in less than 20 minutes. i had the beginning of a story, and the end of it. i left the middle to be played by the players. naturally, i lost control of the story. it worked out really well, and the amount of player agency i left in allowed my players to create memorable characters and see the effects their characters had on the world. it's not what i would recommend, in hindsight. it worked by the slimmest margin with a lot of quick thinking.

i've yet to meet a dm who'll shamelessly steal a module's ideas as their own. if they're running a module, they'll say it straight up. pathfinder's kingmaker module seems a popular choice.

[LordCdrMilitant]

I've only run a module once, and it was because I was told to. And in the end, the way I ran it really only loosely followed the module path. As long as I ended where I was supposed too, hit the same plot points, and didn't give out unplanned treasure it's fine.
And, at the end of the day, I just don't believe that modules are as good or as memorable as the games the GM makes on her own. I would bet that my players from that game, after we went off and took our parties to do our own things, probably more remember the free and independent people's democratic republic of Ditzgrad's struggle for freedom and survival than the sunless citadel.

That said, I'm not opposed to shamelessly stealingbeing inspired by historical events and popular [or less popular] media [especially things I know my players are into] to include in my games.

[Quertus]

So, I'm rather curious just what modules these were, and what elements you thought were so clever that you could not yourself invent equivalent ideas.

[Knaight]

There's a good chance they weren't running whole modules - stealing much, much smaller pieces for inspiration is pretty common, both in terms of module material and just genre fiction.

[Anonymouswizard]

I've only run a module once, and it was because I was told to. And in the end, the way I ran it really only loosely followed the module path. As long as I ended where I was supposed too, hit the same plot points, and didn't give out unplanned treasure it's fine.

The first couple of sessions I ran were modules, and I stopped when I realised the only way to get better at running without them was to run without them. The next game I ran I arrived with nothing more than the rulebook and ideas, and eventually that morphed into my current improv-heavy style.

And, at the end of the day, I just don't believe that modules are as good or as memorable as the games the GM makes on her own. I would bet that my players from that game, after we went off and took our parties to do our own things, probably more remember the free and independent people's democratic republic of Ditzgrad's struggle for freedom and survival than the sunless citadel.

That said, I'm not opposed to shamelessly stealingbeing inspired by historical events and popular [or less popular] media [especially things I know my players are into] to include in my games.

I've played modules that are more detailed than a GM's own work, but none that were as engaging, simply because the GM had much less leeway to tailor the hooks to the players and characters. One GM ramped up on the high level world-building compared to most modules, and when we responded favouribly to interacting with big ideas started prepping them and improvising environments (before eventually just stealing the map of a real world city and changing the name). And had a quite good mutant power in a superhero game that combined practical invisibility with social commentary.

[EggKookoo]

Using these modules have been a great help. I adapt them to fit my gameworld, but what they provide are the ideas and concepts of how the adventure clicks. They provide dungeon layouts and monster choices I need I wouldn't have thought of myself. Though my own peculiarities as a DM are there, I finally feel like I'm running a game as I played before.

I used to be an absolutist about not using published material. But as I have to juggle real life with gaming more and more, like you I find that adapting and stealing from packaged content really helps fill things out. What you describe is exactly my reaction -- this stuff gives me ideas or approaches I wouldn't naturally come to myself and I hope helps my games from feeling too samey.

[Yora]

There's a good chance they weren't running whole modules - stealing much, much smaller pieces for inspiration is pretty common, both in terms of module material and just genre fiction.

It's not stealing. They are modules. They are meant to be modular. That's their whole purpose.

[Imbalance]

In the short time I've been DMing, I haven't found it terribly difficult to imagine new ideas or come up with situations or react on the fly, but I wouldn't dare claim that these thoughts aren't heavily influenced by the video games and media I've been interested in and experienced myself. Even to build a world and adventure whole cloth would see me dive into these inspirations and credit them. It doesn't get much more humbling than to describe your totally original fantasy realm to somebody who responds with, "oh cool, that sounds just like [insert anime/comic/Netflix series that you never heard of here]!" and then find out they were right, so I find it easier to seek out existing properties that are akin to my ideas and enjoy them. Now that I'm running games, that's exactly why I'm drawn to certain modules and cherry pick what I need.

[Knaight]

It's not stealing. They are modules. They are meant to be modular. That's their whole purpose.

I'm using term both more broadly and with less invective than you seem to be reading it (none, even). The point is that reuse of material is common, from modules intentionally used that way to using characters from novels as NPC inspiration.

Or, to give up one of my own tricks - improving names based on the first and last name of two different people I know, that my players don't know, then also leaning there for initial characterization to some extent.

[Kaptin Keen]

Amusingly, I'm definitely a worse GM when I try to run a module than when I run my own stuff - hell, I'm worse with a module than I am when I'm winging it.

I don't know why that is. And I'm not saying I'm just that great - because I'm not, I'm decidedly crap at most crunch for example - I just seem to be unable to run other people's ideas to the point where I do better with no idea at all =)

[Calthropstu]

The older I get and the more I get to experience stuff around me from my past, the more I realise just how common it is for folks to pretend someone else's work was their own creation.
As a DM, it does make sense to keep your players in the dark as to if the game is being lifted from a module, as it help lessen the temptation to read ahead (yes it is a faux pas, but we all know someone who'll shameless jump to the end if given the chance), but after the game is over, taking credit for something not of your own making should be more commonly frowned upon.
Glad to hear you're getting inspired by those earlier modules to deliver on an adventure you can feel proud of running.

Spoiler: Needs more eurobeat

Show

deja view vu (don't worry, you're not the first to make that one)

Am I the oddball for literally creating my own world flush with political considerations, thousands of possible threats, hundreds of dungeons all on 4 continents?

[LordCdrMilitant]

Am I the oddball for literally creating my own world flush with political considerations, thousands of possible threats, hundreds of dungeons all on 4 continents?

I don't know about that. I have GM's who seem to do that.

I personally don't go that far, at least at outset. The extent of the adventure spaces I run my campaigns in is for the most part limited to a couple of provinces in area at the greatest. The players won't be in the rest of the world, and it has at most a limited effect on them, and I'd rather spend my time to tailor the part the players experience to them for their best game than have a gigantic world where 99% of the material goes unseen and irrelevant.

I also usually run multiple successive campaigns in the same worldspace, which allows it to get further developed on each pass through. I'm running my 6th and 7th consecutive Warhammer 40k RPG's inside the same sector group.

[Calthropstu]

I don't know about that. I have GM's who seem to do that.

I personally don't go that far, at least at outset. The extent of the adventure spaces I run my campaigns in is for the most part limited to a couple of provinces in area at the greatest. The players won't be in the rest of the world, and it has at most a limited effect on them, and I'd rather spend my time to tailor the part the players experience to them for their best game than have a gigantic world where 99% of the material goes unseen and irrelevant.

I also usually run multiple successive campaigns in the same worldspace, which allows it to get further developed on each pass through. I'm running my 6th and 7th consecutive Warhammer 40k RPG's inside the same sector group.

Whatever works I suppose. And, to be fair, my writeup is more:
threat in kingdom A. Source: summoner group.
Threat in kingdom A. Source, kingdom B.

Then, when I run a table, I look to see what threats are in the area they are in and drop hints about them to the pcs.
Then I pull up the appropriate dungeon, put some monsters in it and run it.

[LordCdrMilitant]

Whatever works I suppose. And, to be fair, my writeup is more:
threat in kingdom A. Source: summoner group.
Threat in kingdom A. Source, kingdom B.

Then, when I run a table, I look to see what threats are in the area they are in and drop hints about them to the pcs.
Then I pull up the appropriate dungeon, put some monsters in it and run it.

I try to have more detail about less. Admittedly, I have a lot of accumulated detail from 7 consecutive campaigns in which I improvise new features and events each time they visit and add it to the document [and old characters become NPC's], so the worlds of my sectors are pretty well developed but each pass through probably adds a "normal" amount of stuff. I record what has been established in a running document.

[Fable Wright]

My biggest GMing effort so far has been jamming two completely different modules into a setting that supports neither and trying to find a way that can make it work.

My players, when they run their own games, will recognize Harshnag, Drellin's Ferry, the Witchwood, the Mournland, Karrnath, and Valenar elves from published materials. They'll recognize the attack on Goldenfields and the battle for the bridge at Skull Gorge.

There's a lot of core elements in my game that players won't recognize from any book, be that Chief Guh's efforts in uplifting 'lesser' giants, the Oblex that convinced them to betray the Giants, or the 19 Int, Legendary Remorhaz that nearly killed two characters in two rounds of combat.

Am I smart or cheating when using existing books as a reference to make my own story?

[Yora]

You are doing it as intended.

Which I guess is neither.

[prabe]

Amusingly, I'm definitely a worse GM when I try to run a module than when I run my own stuff - hell, I'm worse with a module than I am when I'm winging it.

I don't know why that is. And I'm not saying I'm just that great - because I'm not, I'm decidedly crap at most crunch for example - I just seem to be unable to run other people's ideas to the point where I do better with no idea at all =)

You aren't the only one. I can't make sense of published material when reading it (mostly, I think, because it's rarely if ever clear just why the characters are doing these things), so I can't run it. I can keep two campaigns in my head, doing different things, tying different characters and different stories, but I can't run published material.

I'm not great at playing in published material, either, but that's a different matter.