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  1. - Top - End - #31
    Ettin in the Playground
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    Default Re: WotC 3.5E Archive taken down

    Thanks to Crichton for posting the link for a support ticket. Here’s my request to them:


    I have been playing Dungeons & Dragons 3.5 since it first came out in August of 2003, and ever since then I've made frequent use of your web supplements and other online material. In recent years I've continued to make use of your 3.0/3.5 Web Archive, which has been a valuable resource for imaginative game content not available anywhere else.

    Unfortunately this resource seems to have been removed recently, and I wanted to let you know that myself and many others would be very appreciative if you could restore access to the Web Archive. We still use this material, and for many of us it's not only helpful for our current games, it's a richly nostalgic reminder of a wonderful period in the evolution of a game we have been playing for many years.

    It would be ideal if you could restore this content in its prior form so we can continue to access it for use in our games and online discussions. If there is some reason why this is impractical, I can guarantee you that I and many others would be glad to purchase a hardcover compendium of this material, in order to ensure that we have it available for many years to come.

    Please let me know if you would be willing to restore the Web Archive to allow for continued access to this content; and if not, please let me know if you would be willing to publish a hardback compendium of this material. Thanks very much and I look forward to hearing from you.

    There’s probably not much chance they’ll restore the web archive; but if we remind them we’re still here and interested, they might consider publishing a hardback compilation. It’s about as easy a project as you could ask for, since all of the development has long since been done.

    A very long shot, but worth asking for.

  2. - Top - End - #32
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    Default Re: WotC 3.5E Archive taken down

    My support ticket got a genric non-reply about the message now being in the hands of the "developers".
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  3. - Top - End - #33
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: WotC 3.5E Archive taken down

    Quote Originally Posted by Jowgen View Post
    My support ticket got a genric non-reply about the message now being in the hands of the "developers".
    Mine did too, but we gotta keep sending them, and telling all our gaming friends to send them too!
    "I want tools to use in the game, not a blank check to do what I want. I can already do what I want." -Rich Burlew, author of OoTS, and founder/owner of this very website you're reading this text on.

  4. - Top - End - #34
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    WolfInSheepsClothing

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    Default Re: WotC 3.5E Archive taken down

    Quote Originally Posted by MaxiDuRaritry View Post
    Good news! Because I didn't save the error report after the .zip file was done, I tried a "refresh and overwrite" function on the .zip file I had so I could get another error report, and for some reason Winrar decided that all the files were okay now. Reuploading now.

    I don't know if that's everything, but it's everything I had.

    [edit] And...done!
    For some reason, I can't download it. Any ideas why it won't work?

  5. - Top - End - #35
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    Default Re: WotC 3.5E Archive taken down

    Quote Originally Posted by Unavenger View Post
    For some reason, I can't download it. Any ideas why it won't work?
    Not really. I altered the options on it a little. Maybe it'll work now?

    [edit] Tried accessing on another gmail account (that isn't the one I put it up with). You can't view it because it's a .zip file. It seems to download okay for me well enough.
    Last edited by MaxiDuRaritry; 2020-02-25 at 12:18 PM.
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  6. - Top - End - #36
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    WolfInSheepsClothing

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    Default Re: WotC 3.5E Archive taken down

    Quote Originally Posted by MaxiDuRaritry View Post
    Not really. I altered the options on it a little. Maybe it'll work now?

    [edit] Tried accessing on another gmail account (that isn't the one I put it up with). You can't view it because it's a .zip file. It seems to download okay for me well enough.
    Huh, it doesn't download for me at all. It just comes up with a "Download failed" message.

  7. - Top - End - #37
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    Default Re: WotC 3.5E Archive taken down

    Quote Originally Posted by Unavenger View Post
    Huh, it doesn't download for me at all. It just comes up with a "Download failed" message.
    I'm using Chrome, and it seems to download just fine. Maybe try a different browser? Do you have enough space on your hard drive? Are you using any odd extensions that might be interfering?
    Tanuki in the Playground.

  8. - Top - End - #38
    Ettin in the Playground
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    Default Re: WotC 3.5E Archive taken down

    Originally Posted by Jowgen
    My support ticket got a genric non-reply about the message now being in the hands of the "developers".
    I never even got that much, just an auto-message about my feedback being sent to the “right teams.”

    Folks, I don’t think we’ll get anywhere through the customer support system. If we’re really going to get attention on this, we need to be writing individual letters to key people at Wizards. Ask for the resource to be restored, as a gesture to the gaming community that supported their products for so many years.

    And if you'd be willing to buy a hardcover compendium of the online material, tell them that as well. I know I would.

    .
    Last edited by Palanan; 2020-02-25 at 05:20 PM.

  9. - Top - End - #39
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    WolfInSheepsClothing

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    Default Re: WotC 3.5E Archive taken down

    Quote Originally Posted by MaxiDuRaritry View Post
    I'm using Chrome, and it seems to download just fine. Maybe try a different browser? Do you have enough space on your hard drive? Are you using any odd extensions that might be interfering?
    Adblock Plus tried to block an element on the page which must have stopped the download. I have it, now.

    (Of course, now my computer's giving me hell trying to extract it, because it's so large, but it'll prolly get there?) EDIT: Yeah it works now 100%.

    Thanks.
    Last edited by Unavenger; 2020-02-25 at 05:32 PM.

  10. - Top - End - #40
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: WotC 3.5E Archive taken down

    Less than stellar news, here's the most recent response:

    Thank you for contacting Wizards of the Coast. We’re glad that our players were able to have so many exciting years with the help of our digital archive of older adventures and content. Unfortunately, we have had to retire that site and all the material upon it. While our web team is working on a new place for customers to access the SRD and OGL materials for previous editions of D&D, we don't have any information on when that will will be complete. Additionally, other content hosted at that site beyond the SRD and OGL material is no longer available. We apologize for any inconvenience this causes, but please let us know if we can assist with anything else.

    I think Palanan is right, above. Customer service might not be the right place to be contacting. I'm not sure who, or how, to contact individual staff members to express our support and request the reinstatement of the archives, but it does seem like a better plan. Ideas, anyone?
    "I want tools to use in the game, not a blank check to do what I want. I can already do what I want." -Rich Burlew, author of OoTS, and founder/owner of this very website you're reading this text on.

  11. - Top - End - #41
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    Default Re: WotC 3.5E Archive taken down

    Quote Originally Posted by Crichton View Post
    Less than stellar news, here's the most recent response:




    I think Palanan is right, above. Customer service might not be the right place to be contacting. I'm not sure who, or how, to contact individual staff members to express our support and request the reinstatement of the archives, but it does seem like a better plan. Ideas, anyone?
    The exact response I got just now.

    They're aware of us. They just don't seem to wanna budge. Their insistence on using the word "customer" makes me think this was written by a sales rep or something. I think someone over there might have the impression that keeping the archive up might somehow prevent them from selling more 5e books. I don't think they realize that a community that hasn't switched for 6 years will not magically do so now (Not to mention the AD&D folk who have been living, what, 30 years in the past?). Or that many of us also play 5e in addition to 3.5e.

    TBH I'm not sure what now. Try to find a webmaster, or someone from the IT team?

    I searched around the dndbeyond site and they keep a changelog, posted by, what I assume is IT staff - we could try PMing some of them.

  12. - Top - End - #42
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: WotC 3.5E Archive taken down

    I'll boycott 5e entirely if they don't give us our stuff back. I play both, mostly 3e. But I'll give them zero percent of my business if they're trying to force us to switch over.

  13. - Top - End - #43
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    Default Re: WotC 3.5E Archive taken down

    "... is no longer available."

    I don't think any amount of pestering is gonna help, guys. That line sounds like it was deleted outright. They'd have to dig it out of various web archives themselves to put it back just like we already are. Keeping resource dumps like MaxDuRarity's circulating is probably the best we're gonna be able to do for the forseeable future.
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  14. - Top - End - #44
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    ElfRangerGuy

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    Default Re: WotC 3.5E Archive taken down

    Quote Originally Posted by Kelb_Panthera View Post
    "... is no longer available."

    I don't think any amount of pestering is gonna help, guys. That line sounds like it was deleted outright. They'd have to dig it out of various web archives themselves to put it back just like we already are. Keeping resource dumps like MaxDuRarity's circulating is probably the best we're gonna be able to do for the forseeable future.
    No it's not. At least not all of it.

    I tried hosting the archive posted above on my own machine, and browser complained about a css file that was served over HTTP (my server is on HTTPS - mixed content like this is a security issue for browsers) - which it turned out had still survived. So a) the archive is not complete and b) not everything is down/lost.

    I'm a web developer. Technically-wise I could absolutely host that archive on my own. The problem on hosting it publicly is likely on the legal side.
    I wonder if we can obtain permission...

    And... I'm not sure how the law works here, but the web archive def has some pages of the WotC archive. There has to be some exceptions for archival reasons.
    Any lawyer D&D nerds around here?
    Last edited by martixy; 2020-02-25 at 09:31 PM.

  15. - Top - End - #45
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    Default Re: WotC 3.5E Archive taken down

    Quote Originally Posted by martixy View Post

    And... I'm not sure how the law works here, but the web archive def has some pages of the WotC archive. There has to be some exceptions for archival reasons.
    Any lawyer D&D nerds around here?
    Unfortunately, we can't really discuss that on this forum. Actual legal discussion is against the forum rules. Best we can do here is exchange emails or arrange to discuss on other forums or the like.

    I'm not a lawyer or coder so I'm not gonna be much help in any case.
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    Kelb, recently it looks like you're the Avatar of Reason in these forums, man.
    Quote Originally Posted by LTwerewolf View Post
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  16. - Top - End - #46
    Ettin in the Playground
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    Default Re: WotC 3.5E Archive taken down

    Originally Posted by martixy
    TBH I'm not sure what now. Try to find a webmaster, or someone from the IT team?
    It's likely that people on the IT team aren’t going to care about this, and they won’t be in a position to make changes even if they do.

    We’d have a better chance if we wrote to someone who’s fairly high up on the executive team, but not so high that they’re living in the stratosphere.

    Unfortunately I can’t find much about the executive leadership at Wizards. Is anyone with better google-fu able to find some names?

  17. - Top - End - #47
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    MindFlayer

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    Default Re: WotC 3.5E Archive taken down

    https://www.comparably.com/companies...executive-team

    This website seems to have some names. Don't know how useful, but they are there. If anyone wants to start mailing to them, it's a start.
    Last edited by StevenC21; 2020-02-25 at 10:07 PM.

  18. - Top - End - #48
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    ElfRangerGuy

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    Default Re: WotC 3.5E Archive taken down

    Quote Originally Posted by Kelb_Panthera View Post
    Unfortunately, we can't really discuss that on this forum. Actual legal discussion is against the forum rules. Best we can do here is exchange emails or arrange to discuss on other forums or the like.

    I'm not a lawyer or coder so I'm not gonna be much help in any case.
    Good point. Just pointing out where the problem lies isn't against the rules tho, even if we have to stop any further discussion.

    Anyone who wants to continue this, feel free to PM me, we can absolutely exchange emails/discords/what-have-you. Actually, speaking of discord, I'm in the gitp server, same nickname, and my id is #0341.

    Quote Originally Posted by Palanan View Post
    It's likely that people on the IT team aren’t going to care about this, and they won’t be in a position to make changes even if they do.

    We’d have a better chance if we wrote to someone who’s fairly high up on the executive team, but not so high that they’re living in the stratosphere.

    Unfortunately I can’t find much about the executive leadership at Wizards. Is anyone with better google-fu able to find some names?
    Actually I somewhat feel like it's the IT guys - aka the nerds in the company who will likely be able to help us the most - or at least willing to help the most, ability/permission to do so being a different matter.


    In the mean time I've been busy fixing the broken archive to a hostable state. Stay tuned.
    Last edited by martixy; 2020-02-25 at 10:22 PM.

  19. - Top - End - #49
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: WotC 3.5E Archive taken down

    Quote Originally Posted by martixy View Post
    Stay tuned.

    Staying tuned, for alternative solutions.


    I was thinking, DrivethruRPG has the license for distributing legal pdfs of published 3.5 books, right? Maybe we should be pleading with WotC to release the web archive as a compiled pdf (or multiple pdfs) on DrivethruRPG or something like that. Something that costs WotC little to no actual effort, but still makes them money, at least a bit. Thoughts?
    "I want tools to use in the game, not a blank check to do what I want. I can already do what I want." -Rich Burlew, author of OoTS, and founder/owner of this very website you're reading this text on.

  20. - Top - End - #50
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    Default Re: WotC 3.5E Archive taken down

    So while I love this energy to some extent, I do have to admit I'm concerned about digging into information too much, since it's a slippery slope to more personal information. I have considered just asking some of the current 5e devs on Twitter, those that overlapped 3.5 and 5e at least.

    Quote Originally Posted by martixy View Post
    No it's not. At least not all of it.

    I tried hosting the archive posted above on my own machine, and browser complained about a css file that was served over HTTP (my server is on HTTPS - mixed content like this is a security issue for browsers) - which it turned out had still survived. So a) the archive is not complete and b) not everything is down/lost.
    To speak to some of that, if you look at some of the shared files in this thread and click on some of the image file links in the articles, you'll find that some of those links still work. I can access some maps that still are on the archive.wizards.com domain. Scroll through page 1 for the specific example I shared. It might be that files such as those are the weak links. I would think that if those files are still up but the articles themselves are down, it might indicate or provide an idea of what WotC actually did to the archive. I don't have any web-design knowledge though.

    I love the 3.5e archives. I use them on a constant basis, since I play 3.5 far more often than I do any other edition or game. A lot of the information in the articles is flawed. An example I can think of is that one article on VoP suggests that it's a good option on monk. Thematically, it might be, but from a mechanics standpoint it's terrible. However, the same article expanded Vow of Poverty by saying that a character that takes VoP should get an additional bonus to AC equal to the level of armor proficiency they lose (Light = 1, Medium = 2, Heavy = 3, Shield = 4).

    The swiftblade was one of my favorite PrCs, and I've longed to play a Kobold with Slight Build and the Kobold Domain (Transmute Rock to Lava at level 9 is what my friend calls a "go play in traffic" spell). Everyone else here, and many not here, will have similar stories.

    So as a suggestion, if you are going to send e-mails to representatives of the company, let them know the anecdotes too, and ask them for a relevant contact to talk to. But make sure you don't get crazy about a search for a WotC staff to make demands of.

    Chricton, that sounds like a fantastic idea.

  21. - Top - End - #51
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    Default Re: WotC 3.5E Archive taken down

    Quote Originally Posted by martixy View Post
    Stay tuned.
    I managed to count everything.
    We are missing 23588 unique images and 2653 other resources (e.g. zip files or whatever).

    Once I figure out how to fetch all of asynchronously. (Oh, Boccob, why did I choose python? Hack crap together, eh? Bodge it, they said? What was I thinking? So used to javascript. In python you have to reimplement every async primitive. JS really is the promised land, isn't it? Okay, I'll see myself out already.)
    Last edited by martixy; 2020-02-26 at 04:06 AM.

  22. - Top - End - #52
    Ettin in the Playground
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    Default Re: WotC 3.5E Archive taken down

    They should at least drop the silly pretense that the page is "down for maintenance" When i first saw that i was like well bugger, should have saved more of it instead of just going to it when i needed it. The version of Cityscape i use has the web extra's added onto the end of it.
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  23. - Top - End - #53
    Ettin in the Playground
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    Default Re: WotC 3.5E Archive taken down

    Originally Posted by martixy
    Actually I somewhat feel like it's the IT guys - aka the nerds in the company who will likely be able to help us the most - or at least willing to help the most, ability/permission to do so being a different matter.
    Worth pursuing if you think they’d have some sympathy, but I’m not sure if they would, based on my experience with IT workers across a number of organizations. From what I've seen they tend not to care about what the institution focuses on, just their own corner of the techie bubble. It was hard enough getting them to help me as an employee, much less anyone else.

    But if you think you can make a case to them, go for it.

    Originally Posted by Crichton
    Maybe we should be pleading with WotC to release the web archive as a compiled pdf (or multiple pdfs) on DrivethruRPG or something like that. Something that costs WotC little to no actual effort, but still makes them money, at least a bit.
    This is a fantastic idea, and probably the suggestion with the best chance of becoming reality. A compiled PDF would be virtually zero effort for Wizards, and while the return would be minimal, they’d still be making a profit on a property without further development or marketing effort. That's a win all around.

    I’m personally attached to the idea of a hardcopy compendium—I love my MIC—but a compiled PDF feels much more feasible.

    Originally Posted by Wildstag
    I have considered just asking some of the current 5e devs on Twitter, those that overlapped 3.5 and 5e at least.
    If you can contact some of the 3.5 devs directly, that’s perfect. Let them know we really care about this content, that its absence has been noticed and we’d like to get it back, enough that we’re willing to pay for it.

    If possible, ask them who at Wizards would be the best person to lobby about this, in terms of decision-making pull. I’ve looked at the list that StevenC21 posted, but just from the job descriptions I’m not sure who on that list would have the right combination of authority and sympathy. If you can ask a veteran 3.5 dev who we should contact, that could be really helpful.

    Originally Posted by martixy
    In the mean time I've been busy fixing the broken archive to a hostable state. Stay tuned.
    Definitely tuned.

  24. - Top - End - #54
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    Default Re: WotC 3.5E Archive taken down

    Quote Originally Posted by Palanan View Post
    If you can contact some of the 3.5 devs directly, that’s perfect. Let them know we really care about this content, that its absence has been noticed and we’d like to get it back, enough that we’re willing to pay for it.

    If possible, ask them who at Wizards would be the best person to lobby about this, in terms of decision-making pull. I’ve looked at the list that StevenC21 posted, but just from the job descriptions I’m not sure who on that list would have the right combination of authority and sympathy. If you can ask a veteran 3.5 dev who we should contact, that could be really helpful.
    So to speak to this, two of the bigger D&D employees that have a twitter presence are Christopher Perkins and Mike Mearls. These two are co-creators of 5E. They are also listed as Design Manager and Lead Developer (respectively) on the Tome of Battle. They're also on the team for 3.5s PHB2, Magic Item Compendium, and probably other books as well.

    I don't think they did any of the articles, but they had some design and development overlap between the two editions. They would probably be great to reach out to.

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    Default Re: WotC 3.5E Archive taken down

    Excellent, thanks. They sound like ideal choices to contact, and I wouldn't be surprised if they'd contributed something that ended up in the online archive.

    I'm not on Twitter, and it sounds like you know the players better than I do. Would you want to reach out to them?

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    Default Re: WotC 3.5E Archive taken down

    Got another word back. It, like, sounds bad.

    Thank you for contacting Wizards of the Coast. We’re glad that our players were able to have so many exciting years with the help of our digital archive of older adventures and content. Unfortunately, we have had to retire that site and all the material upon it. While our web team is working on a new place for customers to access the SRD and OGL materials for previous editions of D&D, we don't have any information on when that will will be complete. Additionally, other content hosted at that site beyond the SRD and OGL material is no longer available. We apologize for any inconvenience this causes, but please let us know if we can assist with anything else.
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    Default Re: WotC 3.5E Archive taken down

    Quote Originally Posted by Jowgen View Post
    Got another word back. It, like, sounds bad.
    They might as well have included a middle-finger emoji or a gif

    The only follow-up I can think of would be asking about the online-only content, but it doesn't seem like that would go anywhere. Guess we're stuck circulating the tapes!

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    Default Re: WotC 3.5E Archive taken down

    Quote Originally Posted by Palanan View Post
    There’s probably not much chance they’ll restore the web archive; but if we remind them we’re still here and interested, they might consider publishing a hardback compilation. It’s about as easy a project as you could ask for, since all of the development has long since been done.

    A very long shot, but worth asking for.
    If they did, it would be amazing, and people would definitely buy it!

    People bought the re-releases of 1E books and premium 3.5 reprints, so you never know.

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    Default Re: WotC 3.5E Archive taken down

    Quote Originally Posted by Thurbane View Post
    If they did, it would be amazing, and people would definitely buy it!

    People bought the re-releases of 1E books and premium 3.5 reprints, so you never know.
    I've wanted this since always

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    Default Re: WotC 3.5E Archive taken down

    I'd buy that. My opinion of WotC isn't super high right now and showing some love to players once forsaken* would definitely be something I'd want to reward. I like hardcover better anyway though, I'd be willing to accept soft-cover if they really want to cheap out.


    *why, yes. I am still bitter about them sending out the order to pull 3.5 books from store shelves with the launch of 4e.
    I am not seaweed. That's a B.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ThiagoMartell View Post
    Kelb, recently it looks like you're the Avatar of Reason in these forums, man.
    Quote Originally Posted by LTwerewolf View Post
    [...] bringing Kelb in on your side in a rules fight is like bringing Mike Tyson in on your side to fight a toddler. You can, but it's such massive overkill.
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