Discount On Magic And Mundane Items

[Bartmanhomer]

Is there a discount on magic and mundane items? (You know cut the price in half.) I'm talking about D&D series and Pathfinder.

[Starbuck_II]

Is there a discount on magic and mundane items? (You know cut the price in half.) I'm talking about D&D series and Pathfinder.

What do you mean is there a discount?
In 3.5, cursed items are usually discounted compared to regular due to the curse. Like Armor of Rage is cheaper than +1 full Plate, but it gives enemies the Bless spell effect (as it is a popular buff, it is mostly monsters that gain extra benefit).

[Bartmanhomer]

What do you mean is there a discount?
In 3.5, cursed items are usually discounted compared to regular due to the curse. Like Armor of Rage is cheaper than +1 full Plate, but it gives enemies the Bless spell effect (as it is a popular buff, it is mostly monsters that gain the extra benefit).

What I mean for a discount is there a lower price in items. If they do it for cursed items why not non-cursed items?

[Friv]

Discount from who? Compared to what? You're not going to get a default discount compared to the rule book, because if you did that would be the default price. Are you asking about prices between editions? Between settings? Specific character builds that reduce the price of items?

Cursed items usually cost less because they're not as useful to the average person.

[Kraynic]

What I mean for a discount is there a lower price in items. If they do it for cursed items why not non-cursed items?

Because most people probably don't want an item that is cursed.

The thing to think about is WHY would there be a lower price. Is that item just so common in that area that the merchant can't sell them for the normal price? Is it being discounted because it is stolen? Why would a magic item that is expensive to produce be sold under market value? If there is a reasonable why, then there might well be some sort of reduced price. Coming up with the reasonable why is the problem, if there isn't some sort of catch to it.

[Bartmanhomer]

Discount from who? Compared to what? You're not going to get a default discount compared to the rule book, because if you did that would be the default price. Are you asking about prices between editions? Between settings? Specific character builds that reduce the price of items?

Cursed items usually cost less because they're not as useful to the average person.

I was only just asking a simple question on discount on mundane and magic items that's all. Sorry if I even bothered asking this question.

[Kaptin Keen]

I was only just asking a simple question on discount on mundane and magic items that's all. Sorry if I even bothered asking this question.

If you're the GM, only you can know if the merchant is willing to give a discount - for items that are close to expiry, less perfectly made, out of fashion (last year's designs), or simply to attract business.

If you're a player, well, then only your GM can know these things.

What's important to keep in mind is that Gold is a Game Mechanic - it's like Hit Points, Experience Points or Armor Class: It affects every aspect of the game. So if you change the mechanic, you need to know what you're doing. In a way, you could just as well be asking 'is there a discount on HP Damage?' If there was a discount on damage - well, then you'd be making the game easier (or harder, if you gave the discount to monsters only).

[Friv]

I was only just asking a simple question on discount on mundane and magic items that's all. Sorry if I even bothered asking this question.

I wasn't upset, I was just trying to get some context so that I could give you a helpful answer.

[Anonymouswizard]

What's important to keep in mind is that Gold is a Game Mechanic - it's like Hit Points, Experience Points or Armor Class: It affects every aspect of the game. So if you change the mechanic, you need to know what you're doing. In a way, you could just as well be asking 'is there a discount on HP Damage?' If there was a discount on damage - well, then you'd be making the game easier (or harder, if you gave the discount to monsters only).

Although it's only an explicit balancing mechanism in some systems. But yeah, my general rule is that except in very rare circumstances (where the discount could reasonably be counted as 'treasure' from a system perspective) only consumable items get discounted, and in some cases beyond the point where PCs could make any money from that price (something like this might be possible for 1st level potions in a setting where a potion company can buy ingredients in bulk, although generally magic items will be at a maximum 40% discount). This is because groups I play with tend to either forget they have them or hold back those potions of CLW until the final battle, I go the way of allowing parties to stock up enough to feel safe using while my uni GM instead limited consumables to really big stuff we'd ideally want to hold onto for twenty sessions (we had one consumable item in four games).

I've also occasionally done the opposite and placed massively inflated prices on some items (masterwork dwarven daggers for 2,000gp anybody?), although in that case having such an item might give a prestige bonus and there might be a way to aquire it on the cheap anyway (go to a dwarf hold and buy it from them), but if done more than rarely on a thing a PC wants it's just not that fun.

As a side note, notice that most games with abstract resources tend to eithe rmake consumables the only thing you can buy with them or make other items disappear after a while, and if you want anything more permenant you have to pay for it with the same points used for skills. It works, if you're willing to use such an abstract system.

Oh, and just to throw fuel onto the cursed item fire, a few particularly useful ones will get markups unless somebody comes up with a reliable way to make them and begins to meet demand. A good number of 'reversed effect' items could fall into their category, imagine a wand of invisiblity that made other creatures notice you, now imagine a royal ball where the Queen is trying to marry off her son...

[Bartmanhomer]

I wasn't upset, I was just trying to get some context so that I could give you a helpful answer.

Oh I'm sorry. My understanding of the tone is really off nowadays.

[Kaptin Keen]

Although it's only an explicit balancing mechanism in some systems.

He does, however, specifically say

I'm talking about D&D series and Pathfinder.

But yes, you're right, it's not always, automatically, a thing comparable to hitpoints. However, maybe it should be in most systems. Say ... Shadowrun. There's no WBL in Shadowrun, but NuYen translate directly to combat stats which translate directly to survivability.

That said, for my own part I generally do away entirely with the GP mechanic - so, you can have all the gold you like, because the things you want (in terms of stats and character power) are not available for gold.

[Anonymouswizard]

He does, however, specifically say But yes, you're right, it's not always, automatically, a thing comparable to hitpoints. However, maybe it should be in most systems. Say ... Shadowrun. There's no WBL in Shadowrun, but NuYen translate directly to combat stats which translate directly to survivability.

That said, for my own part I generally do away entirely with the GP mechanic - so, you can have all the gold you like, because the things you want (in terms of stats and character power) are not available for gold.

I mean, it's not a specific balancing mechanism in most editions of D&D, some were even built around giving the PCs more money than they should have and then taking it from them. Also Shadowrun was one of the ones I was thinking of for 'is an explicit balancing mechanism', it's not spelt out how much nuyen the PCs should get but it is given a fairly explicit exchange value with Karma in earlier editions (and in later conditions there's guidelines for adjusting karma and nuyen payouts because both of them lead to increased power).

I've done a lot of playing around with resources though, from getting rid of them entirely to basing character development directly on how a character spends cash, one of my favourites has been buying permanent equipment with experience and being able to buy a small 'purchasing pool' for picking up temporary items, with your inventory and wallet refreshing at the beginning of every session. Although in that game weapons and armour didn't really do more than add an affect or two to attacks and defences, and that group actively liked money as a balancing mechanic.

[Jay R]

Sellers offer discounts on items only because they can't sell their stock at full price. [That's what you would do, right? If you had five $100 items to sell, and knew you could sell them all for $100, you wouldn't lower their price, would you? But if only three of them sold at that price, you might reduce the price on the last two just to sell them at all.]

So there should be discounts only if the seller sees a specific reason to discount them. In my world, that will almost never happen, unless the situation provided a motivation. Suppose a village is about to be overrun by an invading army, and a PC offered to buy out a merchant so the merchant could flee immediately. Or possibly the merchant needs 5,000 gp immediately for some reason.

Suppose an abandoned castle had just been found, and its armory held 5,000 swords +1. There aren't 5,000 warriors around able to spend 2,000 gp on a sword. The merchant won't be able to sell them all at full price, so a ruler might offer to buy them for her army at a discounted price.

Finally, suppose a merchant had a specific item that only very few people would ever want, or that has no value in that location. A Frost Giant bane weapon in the tropics, for instance. That item might be discounted, because otherwise you'd have to take it to the far north to sell it at all.

But in general, no, magic items are almost always worth full value, so a merchant would almost never need to offer a discount.

[Morty]

I was only just asking a simple question on discount on mundane and magic items that's all. Sorry if I even bothered asking this question.

Your question is phrased in such a way that it's difficult to actually answer. Magic and mundane items have a listed price. A GM can make them cost less or even give them away for free if they think it makes sense in the circumstances. But different editions of the game have expectations on how much equipment PCs should have, so giving them more is going to affect things. What exactly is unclear here?

[Bartmanhomer]

Your question is phrased in such a way that it's difficult to actually answer. Magic and mundane items have a listed price. A GM can make them cost less or even give them away for free if they think it makes sense in the circumstances. But different editions of the game have expectations on how much equipment PCs should have, so giving them more is going to affect things. What exactly is unclear here?

Nothing was unclear about it. Maybe I should have asked an easy question then. But thank you and everybody else for your answer.

[Anonymouswizard]

Nothing was unclear about it. Maybe I should have asked an easy question then. But thank you and everybody else for your answer.

The problem is that your question is impossible to answer (partially due to being too general). Most people are assuming there's additional context and trying to supply that context themselves, which leads to the non answers seen.


In the other hand the economic impact of magic items is interesting. If we assume that most things on D&D fall into broad price categories in the same order of magnitude as a knife, a pint of ale, a pot, a table, a cow, a house, and Belgium, then magic items tend to fall into the latter two ranges while being less useful to most people then the former items. Finding somebody to but high level items off you for anywhere near half list price should be impossible, and incredibly difficult for lower level items. Imagine you went on an adventure and managed to come back with Charlemagne's sword, perfectly preserved as it was when he died. And now imagine trying to sell it at your local pawn shop.

[Bartmanhomer]

The problem is that your question is impossible to answer (partially due to being too general). Most people are assuming there's additional context and trying to supply that context themselves, which leads to the non answers seen.


In the other hand the economic impact of magic items is interesting. If we assume that most things on D&D fall into broad price categories in the same order of magnitude as a knife, a pint of ale, a pot, a table, a cow, a house, and Belgium, then magic items tend to fall into the latter two ranges while being less useful to most people then the former items. Finding somebody to but high level items off you for anywhere near half list price should be impossible, and incredibly difficult for lower level items. Imagine you went on an adventure and managed to come back with Charlemagne's sword, perfectly preserved as it was when he died. And now imagine trying to sell it at your local pawn shop.

Then I really don't see the problem if I'm being too general.

[Kaptin Keen]

Then I really don't see the problem if I'm being too general.

Well - people are trying to provide you with an answer, only they're not quite sure what you're asking. The way you phrased it, there are many answers, all equally correct.

But maybe it would be good to know why you ask? What do you need the answer for? =)

[Bartmanhomer]

Well - people are trying to provide you with an answer, only they're not quite sure what you're asking. The way you phrased it, there are many answers, all equally correct.

But maybe it would be good to know why you ask? What do you need the answer for? =)

I was just being curious. That's why.

[Jerrykhor]

Roll to haggle!

No seriously, just ask your DM. But my guess is he will probably say the same thing.

[Leon]

If your a DM you can set the price whatever you need, if your a player your generally going to have to go with whatever the DM sets. In general something bought at X prices will be sold for X.5 price to stop PC getting too much money off looting.

When i last ran the Witchfire Trilogy i decided that the cost of firearms was a bit to steep reduced it by half, everyone had a gun of some sort but it was balanced by the cost of powder which i left at its original price. So they had the option of using a potent weapon balanced by limited shots and long reloads. While they never got to the point where they had access to the Arcanotech magic items i had a similar though for the arcane batteries.

Pathfinder crafting is so much more streamlined and player friendly that its a good option if you have the Time and money/skills/spells to make use of it

[Devils_Advocate]

Then I really don't see the problem if I'm being too general.

Items, by definition, aren't normally sold for less than their normal prices. The price at which something is normally sold is its normal price, again by definition. So it doesn't make sense to think that a 300 gp item might typically be sold for 150 gp. If it typically sold for 150 gp, it would be a 150 gp item. If it's a 300 gp item, it's typically sold for 300 gp. That's just what "150 gp item" and "300 gp item" mean -- or, at least, what they're assumed by default to mean. See what I'm getting at? (If you disagree, then what do you think "300 gp item" means?)

So the remaining question is "Are items ever sold at a discount?" Is that what you meant?

The answer to that question is "Yes". It's entirely possible for items to be sold at lower (or higher!) prices for various reasons, as others have already expounded upon. Leon brought up one example that may be worth expounding upon, because it's particularly applicable to adventurers, e.g. player characters.

Let's suppose that Danny Murderhoboson heads into a magic item store to sell a magic sword that he looted off of some orcs. The proprietor of the shop, Sarah Greedymerchantsworth, offers Danny a large number of gold coins for the sword. Now, that gold is very shiny, and there is a lot of it, but Danny is no fool, and has noted that Sarah is selling a sword just like this one for twice the price at which she's offering to buy it from Danny. Danny demands to know what kind of scam Sarah is trying to pull here.

Sarah patiently explains that she makes her living by selling things at higher prices than she buys them for. If she buys and sells a sword at the same price, Sarah explains, then her net profit is zero. If Sarah's net profit is zero, then she and her family will starve, which would be very sad. And at that point, Sarah will no longer be there to run such an unprofitable operation. So it simply isn't a sustainable business model. See, Danny?

Well, yes, Danny responds. Obviously Sarah has to make some profit. But the profit margin here, Danny protests, seems unreasonably high. It seems likely to Danny that he could get better deals elsewhere. In fact, Danny reasons aloud, why couldn't he sell this sword for the same, much higher price that Sarah will sell it at? If someone will buy it from her at that price, then someone will buy it from him at the same price, Danny reasons.

Well, yes, Sarah concedes. Danny could probably find someone who would pay him that much for his sword... eventually. But selling it now would get him less gold now, as opposed to more gold later. Getting gold now would allow Danny to buy better equipment now, and that better equipment would allow him to slay more orcs sooner rather than later, thereby allowing him to collect more loot that way. Getting money now is better than getting it later, Sarah explains, because wisely invested money now can be turned into a larger amount of money later. This is what is known as the "time value of money", Sarah explains.

This factor makes her proposed deal not only more favorable to Danny but also less favorable to her, Sarah explains. Those with the means to purchase items as expensive as the ones she sells are few and far between, so an item can easily remain in her inventory for years before being sold. So Sarah has to weigh eventually doubling her money against other investments she could make. Incidentally, Sarah adds, this factor disincentivizes her from raising her prices too much, even absent any competition. Tripling her initial investment in four years is worse than doubling it in two years, because the latter rate of return on her investment allows her to quadruple her money by reinvesting her earnings!

Furthermore, Sarah explains, she has expenses to deal with. For starters, because her government wants to tax each sale within its borders, and expects that an itinerant mercenary like Danny will be long gone come tax day, retailers like her are expected to pay taxes on sales both to and from their customers. So that cuts into her profits right off the bat. Furthermore, valuables attract thieves in proportion to their value, so Sarah has to spend a lot on security to prevent being stolen from and possibly killed. So don't try anything, mkay, Danny? There are measures in place.

Another factor that makes Sarah's wares so expensive is that she is part of a magic item merchant guild. The members of this guild agree to sell items at the prices that the guild sets so that free-market competition doesn't cut into their profits. Of course, Sarah sees no reason to mention this to Danny, much in the same way that her guild's leaders see no need to tell members like her how much of their guild dues wind up being pocketed by said leaders rather than being spent on operating costs. Tee hee!

Taking all of the above information (that he's aware of) into account, Danny decides that it would be worthwhile to sell the sword that he looted for the offered price. If it were better than his current sword, he would keep it for his own use until he could sell it for a higher price, but this sword is worse than the sword that he currently uses, so Danny sells it. Sarah successfully buys the sword from him at half of its retail price, at a "discount" of 50%.

So that's how that works.

[Incorrect]

In my D&D worlds there is a specific guild that keeps the prices as they are in the books. They actively negate all attempts to distort the market. Its a quite powerful guild as well.
They are all wizards. And they live on the coast...

That said, if a group becomes a strong ally of someone important, they might get 5-10% discount on items.
After level ~8 they can get 50% discount on mundane items. Mostly because it does not matter so much anymore compared to magic items.

[Satinavian]

Then I really don't see the problem if I'm being too general.

Then have a general answer back :

Maybe there is a discount. If there is, can range from 0% to 100%. Everything else depends on specifics.

Hope that helps.