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  1. - Top - End - #31
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    RedWizardGuy

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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery XVII - When you Wish upon a Stat...

    Quote Originally Posted by MultitudeMan View Post
    This may be a little too pedantic even for this thread, but do you have a reference for spell research requiring Spellcraft? I've checked the SRD pages for Spellcraft, Arcane Spells, and Complex Skill Checks, and can't see an explicit reference to this. Could Knowledge (Arcana) be an alternative skill for conducting spell research?
    Here it is:

    Quote Originally Posted by Page 198 from DMG
    "A spellcaster of any kind can create a new spell. The research to do this requires access to a well-stocked library, typically in a large city or metropolis. Research requires an expenditure of 1,000 gp per week and takes one week per level of the spell. This money goes into fees, consultants, material component experimentation, and other miscellaneous expenditures. At the end of that time, the character makes a Spellcraft check (DC 10 + spell level). If that roll succeeds, the character learns the new spell if her research produced a viable spell. If the roll fails, the character must go through the research process again if she wants to keep trying."
    Each one of us, alone, is but a drop in the sea
    Our powers pale compared with the great heroes
    Our battles donít hit theheadlines or shake the earth
    But they are few, canít be everywhere, and we, many
    So, when the world or universe needs saving, they come
    But when people needs saving, we are the ones to appear
    We're underdogs, but we rise up to the challenge to be heroes.
    (Wishing Joe, a low-powered superhero)

    "I really like the Geek Math'ology we do here"

  2. - Top - End - #32
    Dwarf in the Playground
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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery XVII - When you Wish upon a Stat...

    Quote Originally Posted by MultitudeMan View Post
    This may be a little too pedantic even for this thread
    You must have been reading a different thread than I have for the past 800 or so pages...

  3. - Top - End - #33
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    WolfInSheepsClothing

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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery XVII - When you Wish upon a Stat...

    Belkar wears armor normally right?

  4. - Top - End - #34
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    RedWizardGuy

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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery XVII - When you Wish upon a Stat...

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalFailure View Post
    Belkar wears armor normally right?
    AFAIK, he doesn't wear it upside down or inside out, if that's what you are asking...



    PS: More seriously, as a Ranger and a Barbarian, he has proficiency with Light and Medium Armor, and Shields.
    Last edited by D.One; 2020-03-04 at 08:03 AM.
    Each one of us, alone, is but a drop in the sea
    Our powers pale compared with the great heroes
    Our battles donít hit theheadlines or shake the earth
    But they are few, canít be everywhere, and we, many
    So, when the world or universe needs saving, they come
    But when people needs saving, we are the ones to appear
    We're underdogs, but we rise up to the challenge to be heroes.
    (Wishing Joe, a low-powered superhero)

    "I really like the Geek Math'ology we do here"

  5. - Top - End - #35
    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery XVII - When you Wish upon a Stat...

    In #25 sixth panel, Elan says that he wears a chain shirt. He removes it in that panel, but puts it back on by #30, and I think he's wearing it ever since. Can we add that to his list of items?

  6. - Top - End - #36
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    WolfInSheepsClothing

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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery XVII - When you Wish upon a Stat...

    Quote Originally Posted by D.One View Post
    AFAIK, he doesn't wear it upside down or inside out, if that's what you are asking...



    PS: More seriously, as a Ranger and a Barbarian, he has proficiency with Light and Medium Armor, and Shields.
    :) I would assume he'd have some kind of Light or Medium Armor because it seems like a bizarre choice not to, but I was curious if the scene that showed him getting up without putting any armor on implied he doesn't wear it. I assumed he wears some normally but there's no visual difference.

  7. - Top - End - #37
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    RedWizardGuy

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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery XVII - When you Wish upon a Stat...

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalFailure View Post
    :) I would assume he'd have some kind of Light or Medium Armor because it seems like a bizarre choice not to, but I was curious if the scene that showed him getting up without putting any armor on implied he doesn't wear it. I assumed he wears some normally but there's no visual difference.
    My headcanon is that he wears some armor too, at least some Leather, that doesn't give armor Check Penalty, is pretty cheap for his level's standards and he's proficient with, but it isn't listed because we have no proof or reference to it, visual or in the text.
    Each one of us, alone, is but a drop in the sea
    Our powers pale compared with the great heroes
    Our battles donít hit theheadlines or shake the earth
    But they are few, canít be everywhere, and we, many
    So, when the world or universe needs saving, they come
    But when people needs saving, we are the ones to appear
    We're underdogs, but we rise up to the challenge to be heroes.
    (Wishing Joe, a low-powered superhero)

    "I really like the Geek Math'ology we do here"

  8. - Top - End - #38
    Dragon in the Playground Moderator
     
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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery XVII - When you Wish upon a Stat...

    Quote Originally Posted by truemane
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  9. - Top - End - #39
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    WolfInSheepsClothing

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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery XVII - When you Wish upon a Stat...

    Quote Originally Posted by D.One View Post
    My headcanon is that he wears some armor too, at least some Leather, that doesn't give armor Check Penalty, is pretty cheap for his level's standards and he's proficient with, but it isn't listed because we have no proof or reference to it, visual or in the text.
    Yeah, same! I wasn't sure if there was any info I had missed though.

  10. - Top - End - #40
    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery XVII - When you Wish upon a Stat...

    Quote Originally Posted by b_jonas View Post
    In #25 sixth panel, Elan says that he wears a chain shirt. He removes it in that panel, but puts it back on by #30, and I think he's wearing it ever since. Can we add that to his list of items?
    He stopped wearing it regularly when Nale swapped places with him in Cliffport, and even when he wore his original clothes for Tarquin's banquet, it was a white shirt rather than grey.

    Also, "Polozius" should be added as an alias for Zzztri.
    Last edited by Reboot; 2020-03-04 at 11:46 AM.

  11. - Top - End - #41
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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery XVII - When you Wish upon a Stat...

    Quote Originally Posted by Reboot View Post
    He stopped wearing it regularly when Nale swapped places with him in Cliffport, and even when he wore his original clothes for Tarquin's banquet, it was a white shirt rather than grey.
    In Sandsegde, Elan says armor interferes with his class abilities; which I presume means some/all of his Dashing Swordsman abilities don't function if he's wearing armor.
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  12. - Top - End - #42
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    ClericGuy

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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery XVII - When you Wish upon a Stat...

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalFailure View Post
    :) I would assume he'd have some kind of Light or Medium Armor because it seems like a bizarre choice not to, but I was curious if the scene that showed him getting up without putting any armor on implied he doesn't wear it. I assumed he wears some normally but there's no visual difference.
    Remember, Belkar has Endurance as a Ranger feat, so has no mechanical penalty for sleeping in either Light or Medium armor. I agree with D.One that he's probably not willing to take much of an Armor Check penalty, so magical Leather seems the likeliest for his level.
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    The problem isn't unique to Leadership though. A 19-HD T-rex with the Wild Cohort feat can get a 19-HD T-rex as his lackey. And then it's T-rexes all the way down.
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    "Look, Monk training involves toughening the body with repeated blows. That includes toughening the head with repeated blows to the head. A little brain damage is unavoidable, and I'd thank you not to mock my medical condition."

  13. - Top - End - #43
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    WolfInSheepsClothing

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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery XVII - When you Wish upon a Stat...

    That makes sense, I didn't realize he had endurance.

  14. - Top - End - #44
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    RedWizardGuy

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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery XVII - When you Wish upon a Stat...

    Quote Originally Posted by Jasdoif View Post
    In Sandsegde, Elan says armor interferes with his class abilities; which I presume means some/all of his Dashing Swordsman abilities don't function if he's wearing armor.
    Wow, didn't remember that. Since armor (heavier than Light Armor) doesn't affect Bardic abilities, the statement must really be about The Dashing Swordsman.

    If someone, somewhere, is compiling The Dashing Swordsman Prestige Class, remember to include that.
    Each one of us, alone, is but a drop in the sea
    Our powers pale compared with the great heroes
    Our battles donít hit theheadlines or shake the earth
    But they are few, canít be everywhere, and we, many
    So, when the world or universe needs saving, they come
    But when people needs saving, we are the ones to appear
    We're underdogs, but we rise up to the challenge to be heroes.
    (Wishing Joe, a low-powered superhero)

    "I really like the Geek Math'ology we do here"

  15. - Top - End - #45
    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery XVII - When you Wish upon a Stat...

    Ok, I was wrong. The D&D rules say that you can wear
    • One vest, vestment, or shirt on the torso
    • One robe or suit of armor on the body (over a vest, vestment, or shirt)
    • One cloak, cape, or mantle around the shoulders (over a robe or suit of armor)

    I knew that Elan doesn't wear armor, because he says so in #594 fifth panel, but I don't think that influences the chain shirt, because that doesn't go to the armor slot. Jasdoif brings up #675 fourth panel where Elan mentions that he doesn't wear armor because it interferes with his class abilities, but I think that one also concerns only the armor in the body armor slot, not the chain shirt. His boots and belt also shouldn't interfere with spellcasting or class abilities, because they too are in a different slot.

    However, the rule quoted above says that the chain shirt would go to the same slot as a vest, so as Elan is wearing his blue vest, he can't also be wearing his chain shirt. He might still have his chain shirt in a bag of holding, but doesn't wear it.

  16. - Top - End - #46
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    hamishspence's Avatar

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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery XVII - When you Wish upon a Stat...

    Quote Originally Posted by b_jonas View Post
    Ok, I was wrong. The D&D rules say that you can wear
    • One vest, vestment, or shirt on the torso
    • One robe or suit of armor on the body (over a vest, vestment, or shirt)
    • One cloak, cape, or mantle around the shoulders (over a robe or suit of armor)

    I knew that Elan doesn't wear armor, because he says so in #594 fifth panel, but I don't think that influences the chain shirt, because that doesn't go to the armor slot.
    Chain shirt is a kind of armour - lighter than chainmail, but still armor.


    https://www.d20srd.org/srd/equipment...htm#chainShirt

    it's not what's meant by shirt in the above context of "magic shirts, vests, and vestments"
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  17. - Top - End - #47
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    WolfInSheepsClothing

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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery XVII - When you Wish upon a Stat...

    I wonder if dashing swordsman gets a CHA bonus to AC that doesn't stack with armor, or gets penatlies because armor doesn't look cool enough, or something.

  18. - Top - End - #48
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    Flumph

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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery XVII - When you Wish upon a Stat...

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalFailure View Post
    I wonder if dashing swordsman gets a CHA bonus to AC that doesn't stack with armor, or gets penatlies because armor doesn't look cool enough, or something.
    My headcanon is that they get a Dodge bonus to AC equivalent to their CHA bonus for every round in which they can spout a witty quip, but that they lose that with armor. (Maybe they can get some armor proficiency back with additional Dashing Swordsman levels - I'm often puzzled by how frontloaded the class's benefits seem to be.)
    Last edited by Emanick; 2020-03-04 at 04:40 PM.
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  19. - Top - End - #49
    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery XVII - When you Wish upon a Stat...

    Quote Originally Posted by hamishspence View Post
    Chain shirt is a kind of armour - lighter than chainmail, but still armor.
    https://www.d20srd.org/srd/equipment...htm#chainShirt
    it's not what's meant by shirt in the above context of "magic shirts, vests, and vestments"
    Ah ok, thank you. D&D equipment is confusing.

  20. - Top - End - #50
    Firbolg in the Playground
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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery XVII - When you Wish upon a Stat...

    That's because they have ~15 centuries of stuff existing side by side.

  21. - Top - End - #51
    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery XVII - When you Wish upon a Stat...

    Quote Originally Posted by Rogar Demonblud View Post
    That's because they have ~15 centuries of stuff existing side by side.
    And also plenty of stuff that never existed. Spiked chains and studded leather being examples

  22. - Top - End - #52
    Firbolg in the Playground
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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery XVII - When you Wish upon a Stat...

    Studded leather was a thing in the textbooks for a while. Some medievalists misinterpreted art so that what is now believed to be an attempt at texturing became studs, and it took a while for reality to set in.

  23. - Top - End - #53
    Dwarf in the Playground
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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery XVII - When you Wish upon a Stat...

    Aww, he could have used any buff spell for the first panel and he has to pick a lvl 1 spell just because it makes a better joke?

    Theoretically youíd expect a stick-world town guard to be a warrior or something rather than fighter, but obviously this isnít evidence of that, and since itís background for someone who is probably borderline ďPCĒ at this point, I still think fighter makes sense for Mís first class.*


    *clearly her actual first class was Expert, because everyone is an Expert.**

    **Iím just going to keep flogging that joke for the next 50 pages of this thread until people agree to it for the next thread title just to shut me up, or I get banned for being annoying.

  24. - Top - End - #54
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    RedWizardGuy

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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery XVII - When you Wish upon a Stat...

    Quote Originally Posted by Ephemera View Post
    Aww, he could have used any buff spell for the first panel and he has to pick a lvl 1 spell just because it makes a better joke?
    I liked the joke, but I also wanted that she spoke more of her spells, in order to give us more intel...


    Quote Originally Posted by Ephemera View Post
    *clearly her actual first class was Expert, because everyone is an Expert.**
    Roy's not an Expert. He has a Master degree


    Quote Originally Posted by Ephemera View Post
    **Iím just going to keep flogging that joke for the next 50 pages of this thread until people agree to it for the next thread title just to shut me up, or I get banned for being annoying.
    I think "When you Wish upon a Stat" is perfect in so many levels (mostly 17th), only comparable to "We are the Geek Pantheon" and "Even Nerds Call Us Nerds". I still laugh at those.
    Each one of us, alone, is but a drop in the sea
    Our powers pale compared with the great heroes
    Our battles donít hit theheadlines or shake the earth
    But they are few, canít be everywhere, and we, many
    So, when the world or universe needs saving, they come
    But when people needs saving, we are the ones to appear
    We're underdogs, but we rise up to the challenge to be heroes.
    (Wishing Joe, a low-powered superhero)

    "I really like the Geek Math'ology we do here"

  25. - Top - End - #55
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    WolfInSheepsClothing

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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery XVII - When you Wish upon a Stat...

    Quote Originally Posted by Ephemera View Post
    Aww, he could have used any buff spell for the first panel and he has to pick a lvl 1 spell just because it makes a better joke?

    Theoretically youíd expect a stick-world town guard to be a warrior or something rather than fighter, but obviously this isnít evidence of that, and since itís background for someone who is probably borderline ďPCĒ at this point, I still think fighter makes sense for Mís first class.*


    *clearly her actual first class was Expert, because everyone is an Expert.**

    **Iím just going to keep flogging that joke for the next 50 pages of this thread until people agree to it for the next thread title just to shut me up, or I get banned for being annoying.
    When every one of your buddies is a Warrior but you're a Fighter, you know you're destined to be at least marginally important...

    I like "Everyone's an Expert."

  26. - Top - End - #56
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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery XVII - When you Wish upon a Stat...

    Quote Originally Posted by Ephemera View Post
    Theoretically youíd expect a stick-world town guard to be a warrior or something rather than fighter, but obviously this isnít evidence of that, and since itís background for someone who is probably borderline ďPCĒ at this point, I still think fighter makes sense for Mís first class.*


    *clearly her actual first class was Expert, because everyone is an Expert.**
    Do recall: neither Fighter nor Warrior get Listen, Sense Motive or Spot as class skills. An Expert with the appropriate skill choices would easily outperform them at detecting trouble, and that's a core function of a town guard. Maybe Minrah's an Expert/Fighter/Cleric, because everyone is an Expert?
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  27. - Top - End - #57
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    RedWizardGuy

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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery XVII - When you Wish upon a Stat...

    Quote Originally Posted by Jasdoif View Post
    Do recall: neither Fighter nor Warrior get Listen, Sense Motive or Spot as class skills. An Expert with the appropriate skill choices would easily outperform them at detecting trouble, and that's a core function of a town guard. Maybe Minrah's an Expert/Fighter/Cleric, because everyone is an Expert?
    I actually devised a small campaign in Cliffport, where the NPC CPPD officers were mostly Expert/Warriors of various levels. (never played, sadly)
    Last edited by D.One; 2020-03-05 at 03:05 PM.
    Each one of us, alone, is but a drop in the sea
    Our powers pale compared with the great heroes
    Our battles donít hit theheadlines or shake the earth
    But they are few, canít be everywhere, and we, many
    So, when the world or universe needs saving, they come
    But when people needs saving, we are the ones to appear
    We're underdogs, but we rise up to the challenge to be heroes.
    (Wishing Joe, a low-powered superhero)

    "I really like the Geek Math'ology we do here"

  28. - Top - End - #58
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    ClericGuy

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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery XVII - When you Wish upon a Stat...

    So, I've been wondering since Belkar's recent chat with Roy what buffs Minrah might be able to cast on him. There's not actually that many that would be relevant (assuming we're mostly sticking to SRD material).

    Protection from Evil is already covered by his item, Magic Weapon does nothing, Aid won't stack well with Elan's bard song (though he would get a few hit points), Magic Vestment probably does nothing.

    From spell levels 1-3, Shield of Faith, the Animal's Stat-boost spells (only Bull's Strength and Bear's Endurance having much effect), Resist Energy, and Protection from Energy are about it, and the latter two require the caster to guess which energy is most relevant ahead of time, though I guess Fire gives some help with both Xykon's Meteor Swarm and Redcloak's Flame Strike.

    Level 4 spells would include Death Ward and Freedom of Movement, which are both relevant, but would establish Minrah as Fighter X/Cleric 7+, which may be more than the Giant wishes to commit to, as if her fighter level is similar to her cleric level, that brings her pretty near to the overall level of the Order, which it has been strongly implied is not the case.

    Thoughts?
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    "Look, Monk training involves toughening the body with repeated blows. That includes toughening the head with repeated blows to the head. A little brain damage is unavoidable, and I'd thank you not to mock my medical condition."

  29. - Top - End - #59
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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery XVII - When you Wish upon a Stat...

    It's possible that Minrah was a Warrior, but then got retconned into a Fighter at some point when she became important. Isn't that how we speculate Daigo's miraculous recovery worked? He now had a name, therefore a major character, therefore fit for a PC class instead of an NPC class, therefore gained 1 HP per level.

    And Belkar's armor is probably studded leather, not plain leather. Studded leather has an armor check penalty of -1, but masterwork (which all magic armor is) reduces that by 1, so magical studded leather is no more restrictive than magical leather.
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  30. - Top - End - #60
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    WolfInSheepsClothing

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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery XVII - When you Wish upon a Stat...

    Quote Originally Posted by Chronos View Post
    It's possible that Minrah was a Warrior, but then got retconned into a Fighter at some point when she became important. Isn't that how we speculate Daigo's miraculous recovery worked? He now had a name, therefore a major character, therefore fit for a PC class instead of an NPC class, therefore gained 1 HP per level.

    And Belkar's armor is probably studded leather, not plain leather. Studded leather has an armor check penalty of -1, but masterwork (which all magic armor is) reduces that by 1, so magical studded leather is no more restrictive than magical leather.
    I love this theory for why Daigo started getting better.

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