Class and Level Geekery XVII - When you Wish upon a Stat...

[Crusher]

Miko could have - perhaps - undertaken the following if she was a player (subject to DM ruling on monk attacking without hands):
Miko Player: I use an unarmed attack on the Hobgoblin.
DM: You did enough damage to take his head off, but there is nobody else in range this turn.
Miko Player: I thought there were two more nearby.
DM: There are but not that close.
Miko: ... his head came off? Quick Draw the improvised thrown weapon and attack the next nearest hobgoblin.
DM: ... I will allow it, but I hate you and will kill your character shortly.
Miko: As monks can make attacks with any limb I will do all of the above with a kick.
DM: Pieces literally pieces.

My only criticism with this magnificence is the final Miko comment, which should have been an implication of using *another creature’s* limb. Otherwise, flawless.

[Kakuro]

Since the HPoH can cast Summon Proxy, does that mean that Durkon could also cast summon Proxy?

[InvisibleBison]

Since the HPoH can cast Summon Proxy, does that mean that Durkon could also cast summon Proxy?

Maybe, maybe not. Durkon almost certainly has a spell slot of the appropriate level, unless it's a eighth-level spell. However, it's possible that the spell has other prerequisites, e.g. it can only be prepared by a high priest on a day they're going to attend a godsmoot.

[understatement]

Maybe, maybe not. Durkon almost certainly has a spell slot of the appropriate level, unless it's a eighth-level spell. However, it's possible that the spell has other prerequisites, e.g. it can only be prepared by a high priest on a day they're going to attend a godsmoot.

Looks like it. A valid way to prove oneself as high priest is to cast the Proxy. Durkon is not Thor's high priest, so he wouldn't have the spell.

Also, since both Malack and Thor's previous high priest were lower than level 13, it'd seem the proxy spell would be sixth level or less.

[dancrilis]

Should Xykon have Improved Disarm.

This is based on Panels 3 and 4 where he takes back his crown without seeming to provoke an attack of opportunity, and the rules for Grabbing Items under Disarm.

This would also require him having Combat Expertise and an Int of 13+ (he is currently listed as having ~15 Int).

[Quartz]

Should Xykon have Improved Disarm.

This is based on Panels 3 and 4 where he takes back his crown without seeming to provoke an attack of opportunity, and the rules for Grabbing Items under Disarm.

This would also require him having Combat Expertise and an Int of 13+ (he is currently listed as having ~15 Int).

Looks pretty solid to me.

[Psyren]

Okay - so in 1212 Minrah confirmed that SHE cast Righteous Might (i.e. not from an item), and that she's "never cast it before" - indicating it's a new spell level for her. I think we can propose she's currently at least Cleric 9 then, and possibly deduct a few of her fighter levels as proposed on the previous page to keep her in line with Belkar's "weak low-level ass" insult from her first appearance. (I think she netted at most two levels from the vampire fights+saving the dwarves, given that she also lost one.)

That was my first guess, too, but after re-reading the spell I'm pretty sure if you save once (instantaneously) then you can't be re-targeted.

That is one reading of the Implosion spell, which the Giant has clearly not opted for; It is not the only possible reading.

[dancrilis]

Okay - so in 1212 Minrah confirmed that SHE cast Righteous Might (i.e. not from an item), and that she's "never cast it before"

Casting it from an item is still casting it (i.e you can cast a spell from a scroll for instance).

[Psyren]

Casting it from an item is still casting it (i.e you can cast a spell from a scroll for instance).

I'm not completely ruling out an item being the source, but the Giant having her say she cast it without using language like "that scroll you gave me" is probably as definitive as we're going to get for the time being. As for the hammer being the source, activating spells from items doesn't appear to have a verbal trigger in OotS (see also Haley's boots of speed, Belkar's clasp of PfE, or Roy's sword.)

[dancrilis]

I'm not completely ruling out an item being the source, but the Giant having her say she cast it without using language like "that scroll you gave me" is probably as definitive as we're going to get for the time being. As for the hammer being the source, activating spells from items doesn't appear to have a verbal trigger in OotS (see also Haley's boots of speed, Belkar's clasp of PfE, or Roy's sword.)

Those are presumedly use activated items rather then command word items - one would assume that a command word item might have a verbal element.

[Psyren]

Those are presumedly use activated items rather then command word items - one would assume that a command word item might have a verbal element.

No argument here. I still see more evidence in favor of "she cast the spell herself" at the moment however.

[Rogar Demonblud]

Wands are also command word items, but we've never seen anyone using a wand say a command word. Saying the spell name seems to be reserved for spells and scrolls.

[Wildstag]

Spell names aren't necessarily required for casting spells either, for which see the penultimate panel of 1212: Redcloak is very clearly healing himself but is not saying the spell's name. Those spells have a verbal component that is being excluded.

So the "narrative" clause goes into effect, or he has, I dunno, Silent Spell or something (not that he's being entirely silent here).

Also, I think the pet's comment might work well here for the discussion on Minrah's high-enough cleric level.

[understatement]

Is there a feat for Minrah knocking back Redcloak? It looks similar to what Roy did to Durkula.

[Rogar Demonblud]

Not in Core, I'm pretty sure there's at least one somewhere in the 15 thousand splats 3.X generated.

[Quartz]

Okay - so in 1212 Minrah confirmed that SHE cast Righteous Might (i.e. not from an item),

I disagree. She might have used the Hammer of Loki Sucks to cast it.

[Quartz]

Is there a feat for Minrah knocking back Redcloak? It looks similar to what Roy did to Durkula.

Yes, it's called Knockback, fittingly enough. Note also that she has Knockdown.

So she also has Power Attack, Improved Bull Rush, and Improved Trip. And Str 15+

[understatement]

Yes, it's called Knockback, fittingly enough. Note also that she has Knockdown.

So she also has Power Attack, Improved Bull Rush, and Improved Trip. And Str 15+

So Roy would also have Improved Bull Rush, right? (He also knocked the frost giant off the ship).

[Ephemera]

I think it's relatively clear that Minrah cast the spell, and that we can very likely assume that she only recently obtained the ability to cast as a 9th-level cleric (probably by having 9 cleric levels but we can't necessarily rule out prestige classes).

I think fighter 5+ is probably too strong, but on the other hand if we assume she's a cleric 9/fighter 5, she's a perfect member of the order, and that's entirely consistent with the dialog where Roy assumes she's a cleric 8/fighter 1 or so, and thus cannon fodder and she's saying "you have no idea, don't multi-class shame me, I have as many class levels as you do."

[danielxcutter]

Fighter 1+/Cleric 9 seems the most likely scenario for me, and personally I’d say that’s good enough to participate meaningfully against anyone that isn’t the MitD or the big X. She seems to be the most hands-on Cleric so far, and she also has the capability to give Belkar not-insignificant buffs. I’d say at worst she should still roughly be enough to take on a summoned elemental or something like that.

[Flame of Anor]

That is one reading of the Implosion spell, which the Giant has clearly not opted for; It is not the only possible reading.

I think it's very clear from the spell text that one successful save against implosion makes you immune for that entire casting. If it were otherwise, "you can only target a particular creature once per casting" would be a useless clause, since no one needs to be imploded twice in a row. (Unless someone manages to resurrect them in the space of three rounds, which is ludicrously unlikely.)

However, I think it's also very clear that this is one of those places where the Giant stretches the rules for dramatic reasons. So I don't believe it's any use to delve too deeply into analysis of the implosion.

[Rogar Demonblud]

(Unless someone manages to resurrect them in the space of three rounds, which is ludicrously unlikely.)

Not unlikely. Impossible. Ten minute casting time.

[Squire Doodad]

Not unlikely. Impossible. Ten minute casting time.

Would anyone care for an elaborate scenario involving Time Stop and 3rd party sourcebooks?

[Psyren]

I think it's very clear from the spell text that one successful save against implosion makes you immune for that entire casting. If it were otherwise, "you can only target a particular creature once per casting" would be a useless clause, since no one needs to be imploded twice in a row.

He did target one creature: Durkon. Maintaining concentration does not require selecting new targets. English is funny like that.

I disagree. She might have used the Hammer of Loki Sucks to cast it.

It's not impossible, but "I cast it" is currently the evidence we have.

[dancrilis]

Not unlikely. Impossible. Ten minute casting time.

Life Seed with reduced casting time could do it.

But more importantly*:

Redcloak
Abilities: Destruction domain (required to cast Disintegrate) and Law domain (required to cast Hold Monster, SOD).

In 1212 panel 5 Redcloak casts Unholy Blight which requires the Evil Domain.

As he already has two domains listed a third would require him to have the Epic Feat: 'Extra Domain', which I feel is not justified and so I would say we could replace the Law Domain with the Evil Domain.
This leaves Hold Monster in a bit needing some explanation and without having SOD to hand at the moment I don't want to overly speculate but Redcloak did seem (somewhat) surprised that a cleric would have that spell in 456 so it is possible that he only has it as one of the spells from the cloak - and also The Dark One would seem to be the god of all goblins not merely Lawful ones so a Neutral Evil alignment might suit him better to cover the three usual alignments of the most populace goblinoids we have seen.

*subject to defination of importantly.

[danielxcutter]

I would be hardly surprised if the Giant simply forgot that it’s a domain-only spell(after all, Unholy Aura and Blasphemy are standard Cleric spells). Also, isn’t there a spell that allows you to temporarily swap domains you have for other ones your god supplies?

[dancrilis]

I would be hardly surprised if the Giant simply forgot that it’s a domain-only spell(after all, Unholy Aura and Blasphemy are standard Cleric spells). Also, isn’t there a spell that allows you to temporarily swap domains you have for other ones your god supplies?

The Giant may or may not have forgotten (or didn't care) about that - but I generally err on the side of assuming that he makes his choices delibrately unless he points out he didn't.

You are perhaps thinking of the Substitute Domain spell from Complete Champion, but that is not listed under the ' Which source books are used in the comic?' section of the opening post, and would still not answer the question of what Redcloak's actual Domain's are because if he can cast that he could have cast it at virtually any time in his history.

[Wildstag]

I would be hardly surprised if the Giant simply forgot that it’s a domain-only spell(after all, Unholy Aura and Blasphemy are standard Cleric spells). Also, isn’t there a spell that allows you to temporarily swap domains you have for other ones your god supplies?

That would be the spell "Substitute Domain", which lasts for 1 day/level (D). It's a second level Cleric spell.

[Quartz]

So Roy would also have Improved Bull Rush, right? (He also knocked the frost giant off the ship).

Only if he didn't provoke an Attack of Opportunity.

[TooSoon]

Fighter 1+/Cleric 9 seems the most likely scenario for me, and personally I’d say that’s good enough to participate meaningfully against anyone that isn’t the MitD or the big X. She seems to be the most hands-on Cleric so far, and she also has the capability to give Belkar not-insignificant buffs. I’d say at worst she should still roughly be enough to take on a summoned elemental or something like that.

Agreed. She should be level 1+ as a fighter until we see more evidence for her being higher. It's already ridiculous enough that she's level 10+ at all (which since you level at the end of each day in this comic, means she was level 9+ already when she was on menial guard duty, which seems ridiculous).