Class and Level Geekery XVII - When you Wish upon a Stat...

[Gurgeh]

Yeah, Divination is an illegal school to bar in 3.5, and the comic's done similar low-key stuff with V (Vampiric Touch in their spellbook even though Necromancy is currently a barred school). Seems like a reasonable conclusion to draw.

[Reboot]

Yeah, Divination is an illegal school to bar in 3.5, and the comic's done similar low-key stuff with V (Vampiric Touch in their spellbook even though Necromancy is currently a barred school). Seems like a reasonable conclusion to draw.

You're talking about https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0049.html ?

Given that V goes on to suggest Time Stop, Meteor Swarm and Wish in the next panel I wouldn't take that list particularly seriously past Fireball (Even if V somehow had Wish at this stage, it would be a huge cost in time, money and pages to put it in their spellbook for a spell they couldn't even cast. Less than tempting for Z for similar reasons even if he wasn't just stonewalling).

[Kornaki]

Sorry for retreading what is old ground, but why does he need to cast still meteor swarm faster than a full round action?

[danielxcutter]

Sorry for retreading what is old ground, but why does he need to cast still meteor swarm faster than a full round action?

Because Monte Cook didn't like spontaneous casters so he made it so that standard action spells need a full action to cast with metamagic feats. He wouldn't be able to cast it as a full action when grappled.

[Riftwolf]

Because Monte Cook didn't like spontaneous casters so he made it so that standard action spells need a full action to cast with metamagic feats. He wouldn't be able to cast it as a full action when grappled.

He has Contingency on his spell list. Would 'trigger: being grappled, effect: Meteor Swarm into every adjacent square' be a legal manoeuvre?

[Quartz]

A small point about #1215 but apparently after falling to the bottom, Minrah and Durkon are still within range of Xykon's Energy Drain spell.

Do we know how deep the canyon is? Energy Drain has a range of Close: 25 ft plus 5 feet per 2 levels. If Xykon is 21st level this gives a maximum depth of 75 feet, 90 feet at 27th level, and 100 feet at 31st level.

Minrah has taken damage from Unholy Blight (5d8, halved (2 - 20, average 11) from a successful save because Minrah was not sickened), a bite from a worg (d6+4, or 5-10, average 7.5), two hits from Oona (d6 + Str bonus and d6 + half Str bonus), and the fall. Note that Minrah does not get to ignore the first 10 feet of the fall because she was pulled off by Durkon.

[Rogar Demonblud]

How is any of that relevant? Xykon hit them with the energy drain before they went over the edge. And we are explicitly told they were warded against negative energy effects.

[Quartz]

How is any of that relevant? Xykon hit them with the energy drain before they went over the edge. And we are explicitly told they were warded against negative energy effects.

I listed what did damage Minrah. If we know the depth of the canyon we might be able to know more about Xykon's and Minrah's levels.

[Reboot]

I question your basic assumption - Redcloak might have been thinking Xykon would fly down after them to Energy Drain, rather than zapping them from where he was hovering.

[Rogar Demonblud]

Why would Xykon waste time draining them again when it didn't do squat the first time?

[danielxcutter]

Xykon does tend to default to overtly simplistic strategies, but I think that's more of a "Redcloak is a smart guy who shows that a lot" than "Xykon is too lazy/stupid to try something else even if it clearly isn't working."

He did use fire and lightning on the ghost-martyrs, but that was more about him not knowing about those spells being ineffective; in the same vein he didn't use Energy Drain on Darth Vaarsuvius again after the first time when it apparently hadn't worked, until Redcloak told him that they were using Soul Splices(and presumably therefore not actually immune to negative levels).

[Quartz]

Why would Xykon waste time draining them again when it didn't do squat the first time?

Redcloak doesn't necessarily know that Xykon cast Energy Drain - note that he was off-panel and we see him running up.

[ChaoSera]

I have a question about Tarquin's axe, as listed on the first page of this thread. How do we know any of this; its name, that it's intelligent and that it has Ki Focus? The linked strip does not imply any of those, as far as I can tell.
Unless there is something in the printed edition that I'm forgetting (which is totally possible, it's been a few years since I read them) I'm not sure where that info is coming from. And if it's from there, why the link to strip 861?

[Gurgeh]

Yeah, I agree - on the face of it, the only entry in the axe's description that's supported by 861 is the fact that it's an axe.

[dancrilis]

I have a question about Tarquin's axe, as listed on the first page of this thread. How do we know any of this; its name, that it's intelligent and that it has Ki Focus? The linked strip does not imply any of those, as far as I can tell.
Unless there is something in the printed edition that I'm forgetting (which is totally possible, it's been a few years since I read them) I'm not sure where that info is coming from. And if it's from there, why the link to strip 861?

There is a bonus strip in Blood runs in the Family where The Order of the Stick acquire the axe after Tarquin throws it away during the fight in the pyramid - that is where the Intelligent comes from (don't remember the Ki focus element).

[danielxcutter]

The Ki Focus ability is probably due to Tarquin stunning Durkon by hitting him with the axe flat.

[Peelee]

I have a question about Tarquin's axe, as listed on the first page of this thread. How do we know any of this; its name, that it's intelligent and that it has Ki Focus? The linked strip does not imply any of those, as far as I can tell.
Unless there is something in the printed edition that I'm forgetting (which is totally possible, it's been a few years since I read them) I'm not sure where that info is coming from. And if it's from there, why the link to strip 861?

Yeah, I agree - on the face of it, the only entry in the axe's description that's supported by 861 is the fact that it's an axe.

861 is linked to solely for the Ki Focus. The name and intelligence are not linked, as they are in bonus content in the book.

[Yendor]

861 is linked to solely for the Ki Focus. The name and intelligence are not linked, as they are in bonus content in the book.

Shouldn't we at least cite the book?

[danielxcutter]

Shouldn't we at least cite the book?

That makes sense at least; pretty sure we’ve cited other book-only info.

[Kornaki]

Why would Xykon waste time draining them again when it didn't do squat the first time?

Recall the last time he energy drained an opponent and had no visible effect, it was a soul splice and his next spell was a maximized energy drained.

[danielxcutter]

Recall the last time he energy drained an opponent and had no visible effect, it was a soul splice and his next spell was a maximized energy drained.

Nitpick: He used Still Meteor Swarm between the first Energy Drain and the second, maximized one.

[Reboot]

Nitpick: He used Still Meteor Swarm between the first Energy Drain and the second, maximized one.

But that was to get out of a grapple. Now he has Sweet Boots of Free Movement! :p

[Rogar Demonblud]

He also got important tactical information from Redcloak.

[Aquillion]

Divination barred would be rather odd because Eugene scries for Roy starting from #500.

I don't think that was casting a spell - that was treated as a property of the clouds that Eugene simply had the magical expertise to exploit. He could presumably do so even though he wouldn't be able to cast scrying spells himself.

[Reboot]

Presumably, when the universal laws were revised, Divination was no longer a barred school for him then?

[dancrilis]

Can't help but notice that this entry does not mention Eugene having Divination as a barred school (as established in Origin, p. 41).

He has Detect Scrying which is Divination so I think we can assume that he has not barred divination.

[Gurgeh]

Nitpick: He used Still Meteor Swarm between the first Energy Drain and the second, maximized one.

This is incorrect. Both Energy Drains are on 652; the still Meteor Swarm is on the second panel of 653.

[Emanick]

He has Detect Scrying which is Divination so I think we can assume that he has not barred divination.

Yeah, but that contradicts Roy's statement in Book 0 that he'd barred divination.

Thanks to the shift in the rules between 3.0 and 3.5, though, there's a way to square that circle. The shift to 3.5 - which forbade barring Divination - happened between Roy's statement and comic #292. It's perfectly possible that Eugene chose to bar Divination while alive, but now that 3.5 rules are in effect, he is able to cast divination spells after all. Presumably that means he now has two new schools that he's barred from, but given that he's an oathspirit who's not likely to get involved in combat anytime soon, that may not be much of a hardship.

[dancrilis]

Yeah, but that contradicts Roy's statement in Book 0 that he'd barred divination.

Thanks to the shift in the rules between 3.0 and 3.5, though, there's a way to square that circle. The shift to 3.5 - which forbade barring Divination - happened between Roy's statement and comic #292. It's perfectly possible that Eugene chose to bar Divination while alive, but now that 3.5 rules are in effect, he is able to cast divination spells after all. Presumably that means he now has two new schools that he's barred from, but given that he's an oathspirit who's not likely to get involved in combat anytime soon, that may not be much of a hardship.

I don't think we need anything that complicated, some options.
Option 1: Eugene used to play a game when trying to teach Roy magic where Roy would guess his barred schools - possibly a similiar game was played by Fryon and Eugene wanted to recreate that bond.
Option 2: Eugene is an Illusionist in the same way that Girard is an Illusionist or the same way that Miko is a Samurai.

Seperately The Giant has stated that learning is not happening in the afterlife - I imagine that includes learning new spells.

Dead souls cannot earn XP, gain levels, learn feats, or increase skills.

...

It is not some sort of eternal learning experience; it's letting go of everything you learned because you don't need it anymore. That is the only change available to dead souls.

[hamishspence]

He has Detect Scrying which is Divination so I think we can assume that he has not barred divination.

Yeah, but that contradicts Roy's statement in Book 0 that he'd barred divination.

He could have just lied to Roy, or Roy could have been under an erroneous impression.

Roy's actual statement:

Spoiler

Show

"Actually, I distinctly remember you saying I would abandon wizardry "over your dead body", so it looks like you weren't barred from Divination after all."