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  1. - Top - End - #31
    Ogre in the Playground
    Join Date
    Dec 2017

    Default Re: Reliable talent too strong?

    I just noticed that you also started the "Bear barbarian is overpowered thread" in addition to this one on the rogue. Is it the same DM in both cases? I have the impression that perhaps they just aren't that experienced with 5e and haven't run it enough to see all the pieces fit together. The first time you encounter some of these features they feel a bit unbalanced but in my experience they are mostly just cool. Paladin smiting on a crit is one example. Using a third level spell slot and rolling 10d8 damage on the one target can feel very impressive especially when it blows away a particularly nasty monster. Similar thing with rogue sneak attack damage on a crit and that doesn't even cost a spell slot. However, in the long run all of these things are surprisingly well balanced in my experience.

    I'd usually suggest playing/running the game for at least 6 months over tiers 1-3 to get a feel for how it plays at different levels and with the interaction of different classes before deciding that something is overpowered.

    Some of the favorite targets are
    - smites
    - reliable talent
    - moon druid wild shapes (but really only a concern for 2 levels)
    - barbarian damage resistance (particularly bear but all of them have resistance to ALL bludgeoning/slashing/piercing - both normal and magical)
    - rogue sneak attack (especially when they crit)

    Any others?
    Last edited by Keravath; 2020-02-26 at 05:51 PM.

  2. - Top - End - #32
    Orc in the Playground
     
    DrowGuy

    Join Date
    Feb 2015

    Default Re: Reliable talent too strong?

    Id find another table.

  3. - Top - End - #33
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    MindFlayer

    Join Date
    Jul 2018
    Location
    My stepdads basement
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    Default Re: Reliable talent too strong?

    If this DM is scared of a high level rogue he would reel at the sight of a high level spellcaster, Mass suggestion, Guards and Wards, Word of recall, Contingency. All of these just ignore problems and any high level caster will have at least one of these on their list.

  4. - Top - End - #34
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    NinjaGuy

    Join Date
    Mar 2019
    Location
    Canada
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    Male

    Default Re: Reliable talent too strong?

    Quote Originally Posted by Teaguethebean View Post
    If this DM is scared of a high level rogue he would reel at the sight of a high level spellcaster, Mass suggestion, Guards and Wards, Word of recall, Contingency. All of these just ignore problems and any high level caster will have at least one of these on their list.
    Yeah, but those are magic, so it makes sense for them to be able to trivialize content.
    "No mind to think.
    No will to break.
    No voice to cry suffering."

  5. - Top - End - #35
    Orc in the Playground
     
    PaladinGuy

    Join Date
    Dec 2018

    Default Re: Reliable talent too strong?

    Quote Originally Posted by Darc_Vader View Post
    Yeah, but those are magic, so it makes sense for them to be able to trivialize content.
    For a lot of DMs, the blue text wouldn't be necessary. Way too many DMs seem to be fixated on the idea that the non-magical aspects of the game need to be "realistic". If a player is able to do something cool without relying on magic, too many neckbeard DMs immediately bring out the nerf bat.

    PCs are the heroes of the story. They're all supposed to have cool abilities, not just the guy with the pointy wizard hat.

    Pretty much every time I see a thread like this where a DM starts nerfing abilities, the conclusion is that you've got a bad DM who doesn't understand the game.

  6. - Top - End - #36
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    KorvinStarmast's Avatar

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    May 2015
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    Texas
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    Default Re: Reliable talent too strong?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hail Tempus View Post
    Pretty much every time I see a thread like this where a DM starts nerfing abilities, the conclusion is that you've got a bad DM who doesn't understand the game.
    I tried real hard not to go there with my answer, but I suspect that you are correct.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Malifice View Post
    (paraphrased) Rulings are not 'House Rules.' Rulings are a DM doing what DMs are supposed to do.
    Quote Originally Posted by greenstone View Post
    Agency means that they {players} control their character's actions; you control the world's reactions to the character's actions.
    Gosh, 2D8HP, you are so very correct (and also quite handsome) ... 2D8HP told me so
    Quote Originally Posted by HappyDaze
    Self-deception tends to have a low target number

  7. - Top - End - #37
    Orc in the Playground
     
    PaladinGuy

    Join Date
    Dec 2018

    Default Re: Reliable talent too strong?

    Quote Originally Posted by KorvinStarmast View Post
    I tried real hard not to go there with my answer, but I suspect that you are correct.
    The best advice for any new DM is play through a campaign with the rules as written. The rules were written by professional game designers, and were subject to thousands of hours of playtesting. Some guy who just picked up the DMG isn't really qualified to start tweaking the rules.

  8. - Top - End - #38
    Colossus in the Playground
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Finland
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    Male

    Default Re: Reliable talent too strong?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hail Tempus View Post
    For a lot of DMs, the blue text wouldn't be necessary. Way too many DMs seem to be fixated on the idea that the non-magical aspects of the game need to be "realistic". If a player is able to do something cool without relying on magic, too many neckbeard DMs immediately bring out the nerf bat.

    PCs are the heroes of the story. They're all supposed to have cool abilities, not just the guy with the pointy wizard hat.

    Pretty much every time I see a thread like this where a DM starts nerfing abilities, the conclusion is that you've got a bad DM who doesn't understand the game.
    That's not even it though. Rogue isn't breaking any rules of physics or plausibility by not screwing up simple tasks (i.e. rolling low for their competence level) on level 11. Nerfing this is purely game mechanical as it doesn't have any strikes against verisimilitude (in fact, on the contrary, having to roll d20 for so many things and thus having such a high chance of failure for almost all characters for most of their careers is much more implausible). This is just a misconception of what high level D&D is like. It's not low level D&D. Things change a lot as spells get stronger. Non-casters kinda just try to hang on and be decent at their niche. This is literally the Rogue ability.
    Last edited by Eldariel; 2020-02-27 at 10:22 AM.
    Campaign Journal: Uncovering the Lost World - A Player's Diary in Low-Magic D&D (Latest Update: 8.3.2014)
    Being Bane: A Guide to Barbarians Cracking Small Men - Ever Been Angry?! Then this is for you!
    SRD Averages - An aggregation of all the key stats of all the monster entries on SRD arranged by CR.

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