OOTS #1193 - The Discussion Thread

[St Fan]

Yes, teenagers are well-known for being emotionally mature enough to handle relations with 30 year-olds.

A ten-year age gap isn't bad at older ages. When one of the parties is a teenager, any aged-teenager, a ten-year gap is a remarkably bad idea.

Please note, though, that halflings are longer-lived than humans, and like all long-lived races they mature slower. 28 for a halfling is roughly equivalent to 20 for a human.

[Fyraltari]

Please note, though, that halflings are longer-lived than humans, and like all long-lived races they mature slower. 28 for a halfling is roughly equivalent to 20 for a human.

And we all know how healthy it is to date hyperviolent people of the same age-bracket as you.

[Peelee]

Please note, though, that halflings are longer-lived than humans, and like all long-lived races they mature slower. 28 for a halfling is roughly equivalent to 20 for a human.

The Order is suppose to be in roughly the same age range. So Durkon, who is 55, is around his mid-to-late 20's, relationally to the rest. There is no reason to believe Belkar would be at an extreme, as that would make him the youngest of the group.

[Emanick]

The Order is suppose to be in roughly the same age range. So Durkon, who is 55, is around his mid-to-late 20's, relationally to the rest. There is no reason to believe Belkar would be at an extreme, as that would make him the youngest of the group.

He could easily be in the equivalent of his early twenties:

Development-wise, Durkon is meant to be the dwarf equivalent of the rest of the Order: early to mid-20's.

Of course, this is all largely moot, as age is far from the biggest reason why Belkar and Julia should on no accounts be involved in any way whatsoever.

[Peelee]

He could easily be in the equivalent of his early twenties:

Whoops, mis-remembered the age range. Thanks!

Still, it'd be like Julia shacking up with Durkon. Even though the relative age range is much less than it seems, it's very easy to forget that, and that's for the people who know about it to begin with. I agree that it's not even the biggest reason, as well.

[hamishspence]

The Order is suppose to be in roughly the same age range. So Durkon, who is 55, is around his mid-to-late 20's, relationally to the rest. There is no reason to believe Belkar would be at an extreme, as that would make him the youngest of the group.

The aging tables might be a good gauge:

https://www.d20srd.org/srd/description.htm#age

Looking at the gap between adulthood and middle age for humans, and then using it as the basis for determining age equivalent for other races.

So - a 110 year old elf is the equivalent of a 15 year old human, a 175 year old elf is the equivalent of a 35 year old human - that makes the 65 year gap the equivalent of a human's 20 year gap - 3.25 years of an elf's life = 1 year of a human's life, very roughly.

V is 130-odd - so, V's the equivalent of 6.15 years older than 15. That's 21.15 years old in human terms. Pretty consistent with The Giant's statement about early 20s.



Durkon is 55-odd. 40 for a dwarf is the equivalent of 15 for a human - 125 for a dwarf is the equivalent of 35 for a human. 85 year dwarf age gap = 20 year human age gap : 4.25 dwarf years = 1 human year. That makes Durkon 18.53 years old in human terms. Much younger than the Giant's comment about early twenties would suggest, though.

[Peelee]

Durkon is 55-odd. 40 for a dwarf is the equivalent of 15 for a human - 125 for a dwarf is the equivalent of 35 for a human. 85 year dwarf age gap = 20 year human age gap : 4.25 dwarf years = 1 human year. That makes Durkon 18.53 years old in human terms. Much younger than the Giant's comment about early twenties would suggest, though.

Most likely explanation: The Giant eyeballed it and was off by a bit.

Still likely possibility: The Giant eyeballed it and was off by a bit, but that is now completely accurate for dwarf's aging in Stickworld neener neener.

[hamishspence]

To be fair, Elan's only 21 and this qualifies as early 20s.

Durkon's 54-year-old age at the start of the strip, being the equivalent of 20 in human years, isn't too far off what the aging chart would suggest.

V, Durkon, and Elan being very early 20s, Haley at 24 being mid-twenties, and Roy at 20 being late 20s, is about right. Belkar's age is unknown - 28 was a lower limit - he could be quite a bit older, and still qualify as being in his mid-twenties-equivalent in halfling terms.

[NerdyKris]

It's cool that we're all trying to think of reasons to ship a teenager and a murderous full grown adult. Totally cool.

[Emanick]

It's cool that we're all trying to think of reasons to ship a teenager and a murderous full grown adult. Totally cool.

I don't think anybody is actually doing that.

[CriticalFailure]

Other races don't necessarily age in the exact same ratio humans do.

[zinycor]

Yeah the age thing, but that’s really not important considering you are talking about Belkar a mass-murderer who has only recently grasped the concept that other beings matter (and that’s basically limited to his cat) and is incapable of acknowledging his own sentiment of gratitude. Not boyfriend material.

I disagree, Belkar is a sexy shoeless god of war, this has been stated and proven in the comic in numerous ocassions, sadly Julia is too young for The Belkster, but I don't think he is gross or anything of the sort.

[GrayGriffin]

I don't think anybody is actually doing that.

They're not, it's true, but there's a lot of people trying to justify why "age doesn't matter!"

[Teasenitryn]

They're not, it's true, but there's a lot of people trying to justify why "age doesn't matter!"

Ok, sure, but let's add in the context that a good bunch that have said that, and as someone who is eight years and nine months the junior in my relationship I agree, that age isn't the biggest issue as to why he shouldn't be with her.

I believe they are of equal relative racial maturity, that is not to say I believe he should be anywhere near a relationship with her.

[danielxcutter]

Ok, sure, but let's add in the context that a good bunch that have said that, and as someone who is eight years and nine months the junior in my relationship I agree, that age isn't the biggest issue as to why he shouldn't be with her.

I believe they are of equal relative racial maturity, that is not to say I believe he should be anywhere near a relationship with her.

There is also the factor of, say, half-dragons or half-elves, where it is nigh-impossible for the couple to stay in the same age ballpark for very long (from the perspective of the longer-lived partner, at least). Do note that we actually do have a more-or-less canon example of this in-comic, with the black dragon ancestor of the Draketooth clan and his human partner.

Of course, as many people have noted, including the actual post I just quoted, age is far from the biggest problem here, so it's arguably a moot point.

[Emanick]

They're not, it's true, but there's a lot of people trying to justify why "age doesn't matter!"

Unless I missed something, I don't believe anyone made that claim, either. I have seen several people suggest that 28+ in halfling years is not at all the same as 28+ in human years, which strikes me as pretty subjective. In our world, age is relevant to relationships because it reflects maturity and life experience; in a world where different races mature at different rates, you probably would want there to be a significant age gap between the member of the longer-lived species and the member of the shorter-lived species. But we don't have great evidence about how racial differences in aging work in the OOTSverse, particularly when it comes to halflings, and although this is a fairly interesting side discussion (at least to me, and, apparently, others), I do feel kind of weird discussing it when it's only relevant because it was precipitated by a pretty gross idea.

For what it's worth, I've always stood by the half-your-age-plus-seven rule as a general guideline: if someone's younger than that, they're too young for you. It's not perfect (for instance, entering college or the workforce tends to raise your maturity level suddenly in a way that the rule doesn't really reflect), but it's more reliable than any other generalization I can think of.

[factotum]

Not relevant to halflings, but Durkon does mention being in the same age category as Haley, despite being roughly thirty years her senior. So that would be consistent with (but not proof of) Rich using the 3.5 age tables unmodified.

Also, why assume he's going with something else when there's no evidence of it? I mean, I could say that all female halflings in OotS are called Judy, purely because (as far as I remember) that's the only one we've heard about, and that would still be more evidence-based than "Rich isn't bothering with the 3.5 age system because reasons".

[Rektascensja]

I could say that all female halflings in OotS are called Judy, purely because (as far as I remember) that's the only one we've heard about

There was a female halfling named Serini.

[danielxcutter]

There was a female halfling named Serini.

Wow, how the *bleep* did I miss that?

[Kantaki]

Considering V's kids are in their twenties lived years are definitely not the important factor when dating outside your species in the Stick-verse.

Not that it matters there because Julia anyone dating Belkar is just wrong for enough reasons to fill a library.

[danielxcutter]

Considering V's kids are in their twenties lived years are definitely not the important factor when dating outside your species in the Stick-verse.

Not that it matters there because Julia anyone dating Belkar is just wrong for enough reasons to fill a library.

How big of a library are we talking about?

[Kantaki]

How big of a library are we talking about?

Small moon?

[BisectedBrioche]

I can't believe we've discovered some sort of corollary to the creepy "um, actually she might look like a 16 y/o, but she's over 500 years old!" argument.

TBH, aside from all the non-age related reasons, wouldn't someone who's been around for 50 years still have a lot more experience with life than someone who'd been around for 20, even if they were proportionately the same age? That would make the adjustment kinda moot.

[hamishspence]

For what it's worth, I've always stood by the half-your-age-plus-seven rule as a general guideline: if someone's younger than that, they're too young for you. It's not perfect (for instance, entering college or the workforce tends to raise your maturity level suddenly in a way that the rule doesn't really reflect), but it's more reliable than any other generalization I can think of.

Using that formula, 17 is the minimum appropriate age for a 20 year old's partner. So it would be reasonable to say anyone who is 21 or older (or the equivalent, if a different species) is too old for Julia.

[danielxcutter]

I can't believe we've discovered some sort of corollary to the creepy "um, actually she might look like a 16 y/o, but she's over 500 years old!" argument.

TBH, aside from all the non-age related reasons, wouldn't someone who's been around for 50 years still have a lot more experience with life than someone who'd been around for 20, even if they were proportionately the same age? That would make the adjustment kinda moot.

"It's not the years, kid, it's the milage.

Speaking of which, I must remind you that Nale Tarquinson of all people put it better than Andy, which is really saying something.

[Emanick]

I can't believe we've discovered some sort of corollary to the creepy "um, actually she might look like a 16 y/o, but she's over 500 years old!" argument.

TBH, aside from all the non-age related reasons, wouldn't someone who's been around for 50 years still have a lot more experience with life than someone who'd been around for 20, even if they were proportionately the same age? That would make the adjustment kinda moot.

Different people make different assumptions about how this works. The fact that longer-lived species develop more slowly (and, among other things, get their age-related bonuses to Intelligence, Wisdom and Charisma after far more years than humans do) is often interpreted to mean that it takes more time for life experience to impact them. This is sort of weird and doesn't make a lot of sense, even though it does seem to be true to at least some degree (e.g., if V spent 20 years in diapers, as s/he says at one point, I can't imagine that s/he really gained anything approaching the human equivalent of 20 years of life experience during that time). That said, you can imagine that it only goes so far. I think The Giant made some comment about how Durkon having more years to develop has made him more mature in some ways, although I can't be bothered to dig it up at this ungodly hour.

Maybe interspecies relationships are rare in the OOTSverse not because of racism, but because it's just hard to be compatible with somebody who matured at a different rate than you did. Let's say you're a human who grows up in an elven village. When you become old enough to date, you're probably going to want to date one of the people around you, but you can't go for someone literally your age because they're in diapers and that's disgusting. You could spring for somebody who's also a teenager in biological terms, but they'd be like 90. What's the least creepy age to date? It's totally unclear, and a lot of people might come to the conclusion that the answer is "none of them." That said, half-elves are common enough to be considered one of the seven main playable races, so they do exist - and, if nothing else, Dorukan and Lirian seem to have had a healthy, successful relationship. So who knows what's going on?

[hamishspence]

"It's not the years, kid, it's the milage.

Speaking of which, I must remind you that Nale Tarquinson of all people put it better than Andy, which is really saying something.

At least part of it may be that Nale's adventured, whereas Pompey has only attended school.


Using the aforementioned ageing tables:

20 for a half-elf = 15 for a human, 62 for a half elf = 35 for a human: 42 half-elf years = 20 human years : 23 half elf years = 11 human years (roughly) so a 43 year old half elf is roughly the equivalent of a 15+11 year old human. That's 26.

So Pompey is much too old for Julia.

[Peelee]

I disagree, Belkar is a sexy shoeless god of war, this has been stated and proven in the comic in numerous ocassions.

If I say in a genius and outsmart a couple people, would you say it's been proven?

"It's not the years, kid, it's the milage.

Speaking of which, I must remind you that Nale Tarquinson of all people put it better than Andy, which is really saying something.

Andi clearly needs to watch Indiana Jones

[Keltest]

Small moon?

It needs to be said but...

That's no moon. That's a library.

[danielxcutter]

At least part of it may be that Nale's adventured, whereas Pompey has only attended school.

Point.

Using the aforementioned ageing tables:

20 for a half-elf = 15 for a human, 62 for a half elf = 35 for a human: 42 half-elf years = 20 human years : 23 half elf years = 11 human years (roughly) so a 43 year old half elf is roughly the equivalent of a 15+11 year old human. That's 26.

So Pompey is much too old for Julia.

I dunno, Pompey honestly doesn't look (or act) that old IMO.

If I say in a genius and outsmart a couple people, would you say it's been proven?

Depends on how smart those people were, for starters.

Andi clearly needs to watch Indiana Jones

I'm sorry, some of us haven't gotten past the "uncultured swine" level yet. Could you elaborate?

It needs to be said but...

That's no moon. That's a library.

And so the topic drifts towards Star Wars yet again. This is the way it was meant to be, I suppose.