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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Blade warlock or do I have to go palilock

    I want to be mostly melee. But is blade pact warlock viable or should I. Ultimate with paladin

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    Ogre in the Playground
     
    JumboWheat01's Avatar

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    Default Re: Blade warlock or do I have to go palilock

    Blade is just the bonus option, if you really want to be a melee warlock, you want the Hexblade Patron (with the Blade Boon, obviously, for extra melee-ness.) It's incredibly SAD, and blatantly powerful thanks to its ability to multiclass with any Cha-based class.

    If Hexblade is banned, Fiend is a fair enough option for those who want to use the Blade Boon thanks to their ability to get some Temp HP on a kill. Being a Mountain Dwarf or a v.Human will let you start off with Medium Armor (and a shield for the latter,) so you won't really lose out in AC compared to the Hexblade, though you won't have its SAD, you'll either need Str or Dex to go with your Cha. Is it completely optimized? No, but still viable and fun enough.
    Avatar by linklele.

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Halfling in the Playground
     
    Daemon

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    Default Re: Blade warlock or do I have to go palilock

    Well, Blade Warlock is viable, better with the Hexblade as it facilitates your build quite a bit, you could also choose another Patron and take the Pact of the Tome to grab the Shillelagh cantrip, that's a bit of a waste but if you can't take Hexblade Patron for some reason, that's a way to do it.

    One sad thing about melee Warlocks is that Eldritch Blast with the Agonizing Blast invocation will end up doing more damage anyway if you don't take a two handed weapon with the Great Weapon Master Feat.

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    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    JakOfAllTirades's Avatar

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    Default Re: Blade warlock or do I have to go palilock

    Quote Originally Posted by Neoh View Post
    Well, Blade Warlock is viable, better with the Hexblade as it facilitates your build quite a bit, you could also choose another Patron and take the Pact of the Tome to grab the Shillelagh cantrip, that's a bit of a waste but if you can't take Hexblade Patron for some reason, that's a way to do it.

    One sad thing about melee Warlocks is that Eldritch Blast with the Agonizing Blast invocation will end up doing more damage anyway if you don't take a two handed weapon with the Great Weapon Master Feat.
    I've also found it useful to go with a DEX build, get a Longbow Pact Weapon via the Improved Pact Weapon Invocation, and take the Sharpshooter Feat. It's worth noting that the Warlock's Smite feature works at range, unlike the Paladin's, and it inflicts the Prone condition with no save on anything Huge or smaller. Knocking dragons out of the air with one shot is fun.
    I CAN EXPLAIN IT FOR YOU, BUT I CAN'T UNDERSTAND IT FOR YOU.


  5. - Top - End - #5
    Pixie in the Playground
     
    SwashbucklerGuy

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    Default Re: Blade warlock or do I have to go palilock

    HexbladE archer FTW
    Q10
    What does it mean to be human? -Yanisa
    A10
    Being a humanoid with the human subtype. By use of the Human Heritage feat (Races of Destiny page 152) you do not have to be human to be human. -AmberVael
    By Grabthar's Hammer...what a savings.

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Orc in the Playground
     
    WolfInSheepsClothing

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    Default Re: Blade warlock or do I have to go palilock

    Trying to be a melee-focused Bladelock and not going Hexblade is rough; basically, Hexblades get medium armor/shield, but, as any other Warlock, it's light armor, no shield. If you have Studded Leather and a DEX of 16, you're capping out at AC 15. Sure, you can take the Medium Armor Master feat or raise your DEX, but that's a high opportunity cost, and it's really, really hard to even stay alive in melee with that bad AC. Armor of Agathys will help, but that's limited, and even a Fiendlock's temporary HP aren't lasting long. IMO, Pact of the Blade is pretty terrible, and Hexblade is a fix to that, and a bit of an over-fix.

    So, sure, you can try it if you're not a Hexblade, but survivability is a big, big issue.

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: Blade warlock or do I have to go palilock

    A melee warlock is completely viable. However, ideally you need to choose the hexblade patron.

    Hexblade uses charisma for both spells and to hit rolls with weapons. If you choose any other patron then you will need to boost both charisma and either strength or dexterity making it more difficult to do effectively.

    Why is it more difficult? The eldritch blast cantrip combined with agonizing blast gives a good baseline for damage. Ideally, if you are playing a melee warlock you would like to do more damage with melee attacks than you do with your most basic cantrip and one invocation. Agonizing blast does d10+cha damage .. say +4 at level 4 and +5 at level 8. This is 9.5 or 10.5 average damage/attack. To keep up with this level of damage you need to use a polearm or other two handed weapon. To use these with the hex warrior feature attacking with charisma you need to be pact of the blade and it needs to be your pact weapon. A great sword is 2d6 damage which would be 7+4 or 5 if you boost charisma (slightly ahead of agonizing blast). A polearm is d10 but you could also take the polearm master feat to obtain an extra attack each round. The Great Weapon Master feat gives an extra attack on a crit or kill and allows you to apply -5 to hit/+10 damage on each attack. This works well in combination with either darkness+devils sight or Shadow of Moil to get advantage.

    Finally, at level 12, the melee warlock can get the Lifedrinker invocation which adds charisma again to their damage. This helps the melee warlock keep up with and slightly ahead of the damage from Agonizing blast at least until level 17 when the cantrip has four attacks. With reliable use of GWM due to advantage, the melee build should outdamage the cantrip but without GWM it is quite close.

    In any case, to get all of this to work reasonably well, you need to be a blade pact warlock with the hexblade patron. Important feats are resilient constitution since maintaining concentration on spells is crucial given the small number of spell slots available to the warlock, great weapon master for an occasional extra attack and enhanced damage, boost charisma to 20 (2 ASIs), and possibly polearm master if you would rather use a glaive and get a reliable bonus action attack. Variant human is recommended for the feat at first level.

    Good luck! It can be a fun build to play .. I have a similar character that is 10 hexblade bladelock / 1 shadow sorcerer.

  8. - Top - End - #8
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    NecromancerGuy

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    Default Re: Blade warlock or do I have to go palilock

    Just out of curiosity why not go full paladin?

    Paladins make good sword mages, do to their unique smite spells. Oath of ancients further enhance this concept with their access to misty step spell and magic damage resistance aura.

  9. - Top - End - #9
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    JumboWheat01's Avatar

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    Default Re: Blade warlock or do I have to go palilock

    Quote Originally Posted by Garfunion View Post
    Just out of curiosity why not go full paladin?

    Paladins make good sword mages, do to their unique smite spells. Oath of ancients further enhance this concept with their access to misty step spell and magic damage resistance aura.
    On this note, there's also Eldritch Knight to consider. Full armor, starts with Con save, has cantrips for ranged attacks and all martial weapons (with up to four attacks!) for melee attacks, the ability to teleport around when you burst out your Action Surge, a fair selection of Abjuration and Evocation spells, along with some powerful defensive spells like Mirror Image on your free school picks.
    Avatar by linklele.

  10. - Top - End - #10
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    RedWizardGuy

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    Default Re: Blade warlock or do I have to go palilock

    Quote Originally Posted by JumboWheat01 View Post
    On this note, there's also Eldritch Knight to consider. Full armor, starts with Con save, has cantrips for ranged attacks and all martial weapons (with up to four attacks!) for melee attacks, the ability to teleport around when you burst out your Action Surge, a fair selection of Abjuration and Evocation spells, along with some powerful defensive spells like Mirror Image on your free school picks.
    I'd say Mirror Image is a trap on EK or anyone with good AC. Every attack that would have missed you but can hit a duplicate is a wasted image. If you're a str EK, you probably have at least +7 AC then your image and if a dex EK, around +4 AC. You can theorically lose all your image against attacks that never would have hit you.

    Blur and Protection from good and evil are much better IMO.

  11. - Top - End - #11
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    JumboWheat01's Avatar

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    Default Re: Blade warlock or do I have to go palilock

    Mirror Image has the bonus of being Concentration-free, however. For a defensive spell, that's pretty amazing and opens up your Concentration slot for something else, whether that be another defensive spell or an offensive spell.
    Avatar by linklele.

  12. - Top - End - #12
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Pex's Avatar

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    Default Re: Blade warlock or do I have to go palilock

    There is a way to be a melee warlock and have any Patron you want. Play Variant Human and take Medium Armor Proficiency or be a dwarf but your Charisma is lower unless you roll for stats. For your Cantrips take Eldritch Blast and Booming Blade. Be a Tome Warlock and pick up Shillelagh and any two other Cantrips you want. You can have Agonizing Blast juiciness for range attacks. Shillelagh and Booming Blade (you can cast both in the same turn) is your go to melee. You don't do as much damage as two attacks could do since you can only crit once and if you miss you get no second attack, but it's decent enough damage. Add Hex spell on the second round if you want, and you can still cast Booming Blade. When you get rituals with the Tome pick up Find Familiar and now you have the equivalent of all three Pact types.
    Quote Originally Posted by OgresAreCute View Post
    "Welcome to Dungeons and Dragons fifth edition, where the DCs are made up and the rules don't matter."

  13. - Top - End - #13
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    JakOfAllTirades's Avatar

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    Default Re: Blade warlock or do I have to go palilock

    Quote Originally Posted by Pex View Post
    There is a way to be a melee warlock and have any Patron you want. Play Variant Human and take Medium Armor Proficiency or be a dwarf but your Charisma is lower unless you roll for stats. For your Cantrips take Eldritch Blast and Booming Blade. Be a Tome Warlock and pick up Shillelagh and any two other Cantrips you want. You can have Agonizing Blast juiciness for range attacks. Shillelagh and Booming Blade (you can cast both in the same turn) is your go to melee. You don't do as much damage as two attacks could do since you can only crit once and if you miss you get no second attack, but it's decent enough damage. Add Hex spell on the second round if you want, and you can still cast Booming Blade. When you get rituals with the Tome pick up Find Familiar and now you have the equivalent of all three Pact types.
    A slightly harder-hitting variant of this is the Celestial TomeLock with Green Flame Blade. The Celestial Warlock adds their Charisma mod to damage on fire spells starting at 6th level. So with the Shillelagh and GFB combo, they add Charisma to damage twice. And if there's an adjacent target, GFB will get its "splash" damage, which partly makes up for the lack of a 2nd attack.
    I CAN EXPLAIN IT FOR YOU, BUT I CAN'T UNDERSTAND IT FOR YOU.


  14. - Top - End - #14
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    GnomeWizardGuy

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    Default Re: Blade warlock or do I have to go palilock

    Quote Originally Posted by Garfunion View Post
    Just out of curiosity why not go full paladin?

    Paladins make good sword mages, do to their unique smite spells. Oath of ancients further enhance this concept with their access to misty step spell and magic damage resistance aura.
    I agree that paladin is a good idea for a gish. If you have Eberron, my favorite is a mark of shadow vengeance paladin. It makes a very warlock-like paladin, and it's a half caster instead of a third caster Eldritch Knight. Here are their lists

    Vengeance Paladin
    1st Bane, Hunter's Mark
    2nd Hold Person, Misty Step
    3rd Haste, Protection from Energy
    4th Banishment, Dimension Door
    5th Hold Monster, Scrying

    Mark of Shadow
    C minor illusion
    1st disguise self, silent image
    2nd darkness, pass without trace, invisibility 1/LR
    3rd clairvoyance, major image
    4th greater invisibility, hallucinatory terrain
    5th mislead

    You get illusions (minor illusion, disguise self, silent/major image, invisibilities, pass without trace, hallucinatory terrain, mislead)
    mobility (misty step, dimension door, haste)
    control (bane, hold person/monster, banishment), and
    divination (clairvoyance, scrying)

    Add in a few of the best paladin spells, smites and extra attack and it's a fun character to play.
    Last edited by Bobthewizard; 2020-02-27 at 08:14 PM.

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