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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Barbarian in the Playground
    Join Date
    Aug 2018

    Default Losing Warlock Patron?

    Ok. We got rolled by a Beholder. Cleric is dead and Barbarian turned to stone.

    My Warlocks patron is the Hexblade and I have a sentient weapon. Instead of making Spector's the weapon sucks the soul of those I kill.

    Now we are playing the Death Curse module and I want to trade the souls I have for my cleric to be brought back from the dead.

    Now this will piss off my weapon and I believe take my patron away.

    How to continue after this happens?

    I keep my powers but cant advance in Warlock.

    I pick a new class and keep my level.

    I pick a new class but the powers of that level do not unlock for a aet time period or encounter?

    I lose everything and go back to level 1?
    Last edited by MThurston; 2020-02-26 at 01:12 PM.

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    Beholder

    Join Date
    Mar 2016

    Default Re: Losing Warlock Patron?

    I'm certain there was a Sage Advice or maybe even a D&D Beyond video about this. Crawford said the warlock keeps his abilities if he comes into conflcit with his patron. The abilities aren't meant to be granted on an as-used basis they are something that becomes inherant to the warlock once unlocked. You'd move forward in a new class but would not lose access to the abilities you had at the time of the breakdown of your relationship with your patron.

    Edit: I'm at the office but this MAY be the video I'm half-remembering.

    The Warlock's Relationship to their Patrons in Dungeons & Dragons
    Last edited by Seekergeek; 2020-02-26 at 01:17 PM.

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Barbarian in the Playground
    Join Date
    Aug 2018

    Default Re: Losing Warlock Patron?

    Quote Originally Posted by Seekergeek View Post
    I'm certain there was a Sage Advice or maybe even a D&D Beyond video about this. Crawford said the warlock keeps his abilities if he comes into conflcit with his patron. The abilities aren't meant to be granted on an as-used basis they are something that becomes inherant to the warlock once unlocked. You'd move forward in a new class but would not lose access to the abilities you had at the time of the breakdown of your relationship with your patron.

    Edit: I'm at the office but this MAY be the video I'm half-remembering.

    The Warlock's Relationship to their Patrons in Dungeons & Dragons
    Would I be able to change invocations as I level to suit my class?

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    Beholder

    Join Date
    Mar 2016

    Default Re: Losing Warlock Patron?

    This is in fact the video I was remembering. It's Merles not Crawford but otherwise, yes, I was correct - once a patron gives power they can't take it back (2:08 mark).

    As far as changing your invocations goes, RAW no. You can change invocations when you are gaining levels in Warlock but not in another class.

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Barbarian in the Playground
    Join Date
    Aug 2018

    Default Re: Losing Warlock Patron?

    Quote Originally Posted by Seekergeek View Post
    This is in fact the video I was remembering. It's Merles not Crawford but otherwise, yes, I was correct - once a patron gives power they can't take it back (2:08 mark).

    As far as changing your invocations goes, RAW no. You can change invocations when you are gaining levels in Warlock but not in another class.
    Yep just read it. Has to be warlock levels.

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Halfling in the Playground
     
    Beholder

    Join Date
    Sep 2019

    Default Re: Losing Warlock Patron?

    Quote Originally Posted by MThurston View Post
    How to continue after this happens?

    I keep my powers but cant advance in Warlock.

    I pick a new class and keep my level.

    I pick a new class but the powers of that level do not unlock for a aet time period or encounter?

    I lose everything and go back to level 1?
    Apparently it's RAW (or at least RAI) that you get to keep your warlock level and its associated powers. On the other hand, just about any of those outcomes (other than starting over at 1st level) could work, if you and your DM were cool with it and you both thought it would make for an interesting story. So, maybe don't just spring it on your DM? Talking it over beforehand seems more likely to lead to something amicable.

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Orc in the Playground
    Join Date
    Sep 2019
    Location
    North

    Default Re: Losing Warlock Patron?

    There is no official RAW on this - you'll note that the PHB lists several different ways to enter into a warlock pact (including the character and/or the patron being unaware of the other!), but it lists zero repercussions of breaking a pact.

    Some DMs cut off all class features, but I strongly disagree with that. You're not a cleric or a paladin, you're a warlock. Your power could be dark secrets taught to you, or a seed of energy implanted within you.

    You definitely need to talk this over with your DM, preferreably outside of the game so they have time to think it over. Here's the two main options that I recommend:

    1. You can continue to grow as a warlock, as per normal, keeping the rp effects of your actions to rp, not mechanical punishment. You have a seed/node of power, or the start of some secret knowledge, and your continued experience grows your power, just the same as a sorcerer or wizard grows as an adventurer. Monsieur Evil Sword might be pissed at you, might try to tempt you into evil, or sabotage sneak attempts, or might find another gullible host for its powers who has no morals and ends up a campaign antagonist, but that's fun in-game repercussions.
    2. You keep what you've learned from your patron, that can't be taken away from you, but you've been banned from the University of Soul Sucking Weapons. You can't level up anymore in warlock, and must multiclass. You'll want to work with your DM to determine narrative reasons for your character to multiclass. For example, if you go into Sorcerer, is there something in your heritage, or could you go on a side quest to unlock some innate power? Maybe your old patron was attracted to you, sensed some hidden away powers in your soul. Or if you wanna go paladin, you could do a little side quest to do some heroics for an organization/church, prove your "worthiness", taking an oath, even if you don't mechanically choose an oath til 3rd level. If you go bard, maybe you really nail it at karaoke night at the pub. I dunno about that one.
    Last edited by micahaphone; 2020-02-26 at 01:33 PM.

  8. - Top - End - #8
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    NecromancerGuy

    Join Date
    Jun 2016

    Default Re: Losing Warlock Patron?

    Another option not listed above is to seek out a new patron for your powers. As a dm I once had a character go through a redemption arc where they started as a fiend warlock and eventually changed sides and became a celestial warlock. Basically, in this case they switched all of their subclass feature to celestial then could continue advancing in warlock.

  9. - Top - End - #9
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    Beholder

    Join Date
    Mar 2016

    Default Re: Losing Warlock Patron?

    Quote Originally Posted by clash View Post
    Another option not listed above is to seek out a new patron for your powers. As a dm I once had a character go through a redemption arc where they started as a fiend warlock and eventually changed sides and became a celestial warlock. Basically, in this case they switched all of their subclass feature to celestial then could continue advancing in warlock.
    I did something similar as a player in Curse of Strahd. My fiend patron developed a phobia of fire due to an interaction with Delban in the amber vaults and ended up swapping over to the GOO patron whole cloth. As a player it wasn't my idea but it was a fun little twist in the campaign for me. Ultimately like everything else in dnd if your table buys in then do whatever you agree is best.

  10. - Top - End - #10
    Halfling in the Playground
     
    Beholder

    Join Date
    Sep 2019

    Default Re: Losing Warlock Patron?

    This is a little bit off-topic, but how did y'all handle switching subclasses, in play? I've been pondering the possibility more broadly and I'm curious how your tables handled it.

  11. - Top - End - #11
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    Beholder

    Join Date
    Mar 2016

    Default Re: Losing Warlock Patron?

    Quote Originally Posted by prabe View Post
    This is a little bit off-topic, but how did y'all handle switching subclasses, in play? I've been pondering the possibility more broadly and I'm curious how your tables handled it.
    We sort of played it as Delban's great old one corrupting influence overriding certain key parts of the warlock's personality and replacing them with his own. The character became, over the course of a couple sessions and a bunch of off-table RP between myself and the DM, a quasi-host for a portion of the new patron's consciousness. It was fun and made for a bunch of comical character interactions and one tragic one. 10/10 Highly recommend.

  12. - Top - End - #12
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    NecromancerGuy

    Join Date
    Jun 2016

    Default Re: Losing Warlock Patron?

    My warlock gave his life to defeat his future self and was resurrected by a celestial instantly breaking his bond and replacing his previous subclass features.

  13. - Top - End - #13
    Halfling in the Playground
     
    Beholder

    Join Date
    Sep 2019

    Default Re: Losing Warlock Patron?

    Thanks to ya both! I've been pondering how I'd work changing subclasses in general as a DM, if anyone ever wanted to. A big dramatic moment is one approach; something taking a while in-game is another. I guess I'll keep that thinking on the back burner--don't think anyone in either of the campaigns I'm running is thinking of it.

  14. - Top - End - #14
    Pixie in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jan 2007

    Default Re: Losing Warlock Patron?

    One idea is that if the character was enough of an asset to be chosen by a patron, that there may be other patrons waiting in the wings to recruit him once he loses his current patron.

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