These Hands

[LibraryOgre]

Are monk unarmed attacks considered finesse weapons for the purposes of sneak attack? They function as such... dex to attack and damage, if you choose... but they don't explicitly get labeled as such.

Also, what is a "monk weapon"? The monk description leaves it a bit vague. Could an elven monk declare Longswords a monk weapon? A dwarven monk use battleaxes as a monk weapon?

[JNAProductions]

No-but houseruling SA to work with Monk weapons is fine, in my opinion.

All simple weapons and short swords are Monk weapons.

[bored_acel]

Marital Arts is rather explicit.

Your practice of martial arts gives you mastery of combat styles that use unarmed strikes and monk weapons, which are shortswords and any simple melee weapons that don't have the two-handed or heavy property.

Fists are not finesse, but do count as monk weapons.
Now, you could sneak attack with a dagger or short sword as they are both finesse weapons that can be monk weapons.

[LibraryOgre]

Marital Arts is rather explicit.

Fists are not finesse, but do count as monk weapons.
Now, you could sneak attack with a dagger or short sword as they are both finesse weapons that can be monk weapons.

Ah, missed that clause.

[Millstone85]

Marital Arts is rather explicit.

Indeed, it can get pretty graphic between spouses.

[bored_acel]

Indeed, it can get pretty graphic between spouses.

Some, I'd even suspect many, don't wait until marriage.

[JackPhoenix]

Fists are not finesse, but do count as monk weapons.

Technically, they don't. Martial Arts mentions unarmed strikes separately from monk weapons.... after all, unarmed strike, by definition, does not involve a weapon.

[Chronic]

Yep as people said monk fist aren't per se eligible for sneek attack. But since the MO k has access to weapon that can sneak attack, I would mind as a gm authorizing it, I would juste describe it as striking clusters of nerves and vital points.

[P. G. Macer]

It’s also worth noting that the big Class Features UA from last November offers an alternate way of determining Monk Weapons, where you can choose 5 + WIS mod weapons from those you're proficient in that lack the Heavy, Two-Handed, or Special properties. This means if you use this rule a wood elf monk can have a longsword as a monk weapon, for instance.

[bored_acel]

It’s also worth noting that the big Class Features UA from last November offers an alternate way of determining Monk Weapons, where you can choose 5 + WIS mod weapons from those you're proficient in that lack the Heavy, Two-Handed, or Special properties. This means if you use this rule a wood elf monk can have a longsword as a monk weapon, for instance.

I'm not sure how I feel about that. It'd give Whip monk weapon status, which would be awkward in later levels... or any d8 Martial Weapon in earlier levels. I much prefer limiting Monk to d6 for monk weapons, otherwise you'll see a level 2 Monk with 16 DEX pull

Main-Attack	Off-Hand	Flurry of Blows
1d8+3	1d4+3	2d4+6

We're looking at 11 Damage normally at level 2, about 20 with a Ki; so it's not broken, but certainly an advantage I just have a bad feeling about.

edit:I found the bad feeling- hand crossbows could count under those rules too. So could slings, darts, and javelins. Not as big of an issue for lower levels, but the though of letting someone deal 2d6+DEX from range, and if they get into trouble spend a Ki for Dodge/Disengage could be a nightmare to challenge.

[Rynjin]

I was really hoping this was a thread about using your Unarmed Strikes as thrown weapons with the Returning property so you could literally catch these hands

[P. G. Macer]

I'm not sure how I feel about that. It'd give Whip monk weapon status, which would be awkward in later levels... or any d8 Martial Weapon in earlier levels. I much prefer limiting Monk to d6 for monk weapons, otherwise you'll see a level 2 Monk with 16 DEX pull

Main-Attack	Off-Hand	Flurry of Blows
1d8+3	1d4+3	2d4+6

We're looking at 11 Damage normally at level 2, about 20 with a Ki; so it's not broken, but certainly an advantage I just have a bad feeling about.

edit:I found the bad feeling- hand crossbows could count under those rules too. So could slings, darts, and javelins. Not as big of an issue for lower levels, but the though of letting someone deal 2d6+DEX from range, and if they get into trouble spend a Ki for Dodge/Disengage could be a nightmare to challenge.

Flurry of Blows and the BA Martial Arts attack both require a bonus action; you can’t do both of them.

[JackPhoenix]

I'm not sure how I feel about that. It'd give Whip monk weapon status, which would be awkward in later levels... or any d8 Martial Weapon in earlier levels. I much prefer limiting Monk to d6 for monk weapons, otherwise you'll see a level 2 Monk with 16 DEX pull

Main-Attack	Off-Hand	Flurry of Blows
1d8+3	1d4+3	2d4+6

We're looking at 11 Damage normally at level 2, about 20 with a Ki; so it's not broken, but certainly an advantage I just have a bad feeling about.

edit:I found the bad feeling- hand crossbows could count under those rules too. So could slings, darts, and javelins. Not as big of an issue for lower levels, but the though of letting someone deal 2d6+DEX from range, and if they get into trouble spend a Ki for Dodge/Disengage could be a nightmare to challenge.

Spear or quarterstaff already does 1d8 (when used by both hands) by default, and javelins, daggers and handaxes already count as monk weapons. The variant gives you 1d10 with longsword, battleaxe or warhammer, or reach with a whip. Hand crossbow and sling has the same range as javelins, and sling works better once you get Extra Attack (Hand Crossbow has loading, which means the monk would need Crossbow Expert). And the monk would need to get proficiency from somewhere first, so the biggest advantage is that dwarven and elven monks can use their racial weapons.

[LibraryOgre]

I was really hoping this was a thread about using your Unarmed Strikes as thrown weapons with the Returning property so you could literally catch these hands

Only if you're a Warforged!

Spoiler: ROCKET PUNCH!

Show

More ad res, I think of this in conjunction with KOTOR and melee combat, especially with Jedi... how into the various lightsaber strikes, they'd work in a kick every now and again.

[sithlordnergal]

It’s also worth noting that the big Class Features UA from last November offers an alternate way of determining Monk Weapons, where you can choose 5 + WIS mod weapons from those you're proficient in that lack the Heavy, Two-Handed, or Special properties. This means if you use this rule a wood elf monk can have a longsword as a monk weapon, for instance.

Hmmm, that is a pretty neat rule, though I'd wonder how well it works with Kensei. Their entire deal is being able to choose non-monk weapons and use them as weapons, which this class feature messes with because you can just snag whichever weapons you want. That said, the fix for this is relatively easy. Just allow Kensei Monks to choose Heavy and Two-Handed weapons for their Kensei Weapons.

[sithlordnergal]

I'm not sure how I feel about that. It'd give Whip monk weapon status, which would be awkward in later levels... or any d8 Martial Weapon in earlier levels. I much prefer limiting Monk to d6 for monk weapons, otherwise you'll see a level 2 Monk with 16 DEX pull

Main-Attack	Off-Hand	Flurry of Blows
1d8+3	1d4+3	2d4+6

We're looking at 11 Damage normally at level 2, about 20 with a Ki; so it's not broken, but certainly an advantage I just have a bad feeling about.

edit:I found the bad feeling- hand crossbows could count under those rules too. So could slings, darts, and javelins. Not as big of an issue for lower levels, but the though of letting someone deal 2d6+DEX from range, and if they get into trouble spend a Ki for Dodge/Disengage could be a nightmare to challenge.

I mean, you can already do that with the Kensei Monk...it doesn't really break that much. Whip reach is nice, but since all of the Monk's bonus action attacks use their unarmed strike, they'd need to be within 5 feet of a target.

[HPisBS]

I mean, you can already do that with the Kensei Monk...it doesn't really break that much. Whip reach is nice, but since all of the Monk's bonus action attacks use their unarmed strike, they'd need to be within 5 feet of a target.

Devil's Advocate: Use Stunning Strike from 10 ft away; if it fails, you can still move to safety at no cost.

(Granted, Mobile would let you flee for free, but Monks are MAD enough to make that a serious opportunity cost.)