Mafia Capital (WWC XIII): Important Info Here -- READ OPENING POSTS!

[AvatarVecna]

So am I throwing up a post?

Noone's making you, but you'd be next on the list. If you're not up for it, I can ping Taffimai instead?

[gac3]

Noone's making you, but you'd be next on the list. If you're not up for it, I can ping Taffimai instead?

I'm up for it. I'll have it up either right before or right after work.

Done: https://forums.giantitp.com/showthre...8#post25586278

[AvatarVecna]

I'm up for it. I'll have it up either right before or right after work.

Done: https://forums.giantitp.com/showthre...8#post25586278

Scheduled and signatured.

[Xihirli]

Put me in for Breakfast Cereal Mascots Werewolf

[AvatarVecna]

Put me in for Breakfast Cereal Mascots Werewolf

Scheduled.

[Xihirli]

Battle Royale 12 has ended in victory for Opsimos, Snowblaze, gac3, Rogan, Flat_footed, and Xumtiil.

[AvatarVecna]

Battle Royale 12 has ended in victory for Opsimos, Snowblaze, gac3, Rogan, Flat_footed, and Xumtiil.

Schedule and archive updated.

[Xumtiil]

The new Host requires more sacrifices. Please inform me when the batch of battlers will be provided.

Aka please add me to the list to host Battle Royale 13: Xihirli Murders Everyone (working title)

[AvatarVecna]

The new Host requires more sacrifices. Please inform me when the batch of battlers will be provided.

Aka please add me to the list to host Battle Royale 13: Xihirli Murders Everyone (working title)

Scheduled.

[Cazero]

Reworked my rules. Made the core rules more "classic", but also made investigation more complicated. Might be too much. Thoughts?

Spoiler: Rules

Show

Teams
Every attendant is either part of the white team (town) or the black team (mafia). Black team members may be refered to as blackened and know each other.
The white team's goal is to neutralise the black team by executing every blackened.
The black team's goal is to eliminate members of the white team until blackened are the majority.

Game phases

Daily life
This is the 'night' phase of the game and the marker of a new day, and will last around 24 hours. During this phase, every blackened player may plan a murder by sending me a PM with their target's name. They may chose to lay low instead by not sending such a PM.
In addition, during this phase, every player may choose between hanging out in an area or sulking.
To hang out in an area, publicly declare in wich area you wish to be. The available hangout areas are the cafeteria, the lounge, the rec room and the gym.
Every other player who chose to hang out in the same area will be hanging out with you.
You may reconsider and hang out elsewhere (or sulk) by declaring it before the end of the daily life phase.
Players who don't declare joining an area, don't declare anything, declare sulking, or end up alone in their hangout area are all sulking.
If nobody dies after a daily life phase, it is followed by another daily life phase.

Deadly life
This is a preliminary 'day' phase and will last around 24 hours. At the start of this phase, the deads are declared. Then, players declare publicly what they wish to focus their investigation on.
The investigation options are each individual body/crime scene, alibis of a hangout group, or movements of the sulkers. The results of the investigation are received by PM at the end of the phase.
Blackened players may decide to disrupt the investigation they are a part of by sending me a PM. While this ruins the investigation efforts of all players involved, this also expose their presence as part of the group.
The information obtained from an investigation depends of the number of players involved. One or two players will receive tier 1 information, 3 or 4 players will also receive tier 2 information, and 5 or more players will also receive tier 3 information.
The information received is as follows :

Investigation	Murder victim	Suicide victim	Punishment victim	Group alibis	Sulkers movements
Tier 1 information	Cause of death (murder)	Cause of death (suicide)	Cause of death (punishment)	If any commited murder	Clears a non-murderer at random
Tier 2 information	In wich group the murderer is	Cause of suicide	Wich rules were broken	If any is blackened	Instead, clears a non-blackened at random
Tier 3 information	Murderer identity	Who is involved in the suicide	How many blackened remain (public annoucement)	Identity of a random blackened in the group	How many blackened are among the sulker

Trial
This is the proper 'day' phase and will last around 48 hours. During this phase, players can vote for another player to be executed. The player with the most votes is taken out. In the case of a tie, all tied players are executed.
If one person was executed by an absolute majority vote, their team affiliation and ultimate talent are revealed. Otherwise, they remain secret.
Due to vote manipulation powers, the tally of the votes is not made public.

Regulations
Members of the white team must follow additional regulations that may change over time. Monokuma will punish players who commited any rules violations after each daily life phase. The one and only punishment is death.
Punishments are executed after murders.
At the start of the game, the following regulations are already in effect :
Explicitly claiming your Ultimate talent is forbidden (you're allowed to lie and claim another though).
Abstaining to vote during a trial is forbidden.


Ultimate talents
Every player has an Ultimate talent (or role) that gives them an advantage during the game.
Talents currently in rework, specifics depending on the base rules.

[Taffimai]

Sorry for being royally late, but congratulations Bladescape with getting seventh place in your semi, and sorry you didn't get to sub into the finale!

[JeenLeen]

At the start of the game, the following regulations are already in effect :
Explicitly claiming your Ultimate talent is forbidden (you're allowed to lie and claim another though).
Abstaining to vote during a trial is forbidden.

So any Ultimate Talent claim is known to be a lie? If a list of Ultimate Talents is public, then you could implicitly claim by explicitly claiming every other talent. Also, the line between explicit and implicit could get fuzzy.

If the penalty is death for breaking a rule, then the "must vote" rule means anyone who is absent for a Day (to use normal game parlance) essentially autolynches. Not necessarily a criticism, but making sure that implication is intended.

---

Also, am I reading it right that instead of a Day and Night Phase, there's a Night Phase, Prelim Day, and "normal" Day Phase.

This sounds like a fun game to be a wolf in.

[Cazero]

So any Ultimate Talent claim is known to be a lie? If a list of Ultimate Talents is public, then you could implicitly claim by explicitly claiming every other talent.

Nice catch. As each talent is unique, the idea is to make sure we don't get a game where blackened are discovered because they failed to claim a believable cover story.

Also, the line between explicit and implicit could get fuzzy.

Well people gotta be able to use the information their talent provides them, and that generaly involves sharing it.

If the penalty is death for breaking a rule, then the "must vote" rule means anyone who is absent for a Day (to use normal game parlance) essentially autolynches. Not necessarily a criticism, but making sure that implication is intended.

That's the idea. Death after X rules violation is also an option if that's too harsh, but I'm afraid it would make role claiming consequence free.

Also, am I reading it right that instead of a Day and Night Phase, there's a Night Phase, Prelim Day, and "normal" Day Phase.

Correct.

[Rogan]

Reworked my rules. Made the core rules more "classic", but also made investigation more complicated. Might be too much. Thoughts?

Spoiler: Rules

Show

Teams
Every attendant is either part of the white team (town) or the black team (mafia). Black team members may be refered to as blackened and know each other.
The white team's goal is to neutralise the black team by executing every blackened.
The black team's goal is to eliminate members of the white team until blackened are the majority.

Game phases

Daily life
This is the 'night' phase of the game and the marker of a new day, and will last around 24 hours. During this phase, every blackened player may plan a murder by sending me a PM with their target's name. They may chose to lay low instead by not sending such a PM.
In addition, during this phase, every player may choose between hanging out in an area or sulking.
To hang out in an area, publicly declare in wich area you wish to be. The available hangout areas are the cafeteria, the lounge, the rec room and the gym.
Every other player who chose to hang out in the same area will be hanging out with you.
You may reconsider and hang out elsewhere (or sulk) by declaring it before the end of the daily life phase.
Players who don't declare joining an area, don't declare anything, declare sulking, or end up alone in their hangout area are all sulking.
If nobody dies after a daily life phase, it is followed by another daily life phase.

Deadly life
This is a preliminary 'day' phase and will last around 24 hours. At the start of this phase, the deads are declared. Then, players declare publicly what they wish to focus their investigation on.
The investigation options are each individual body/crime scene, alibis of a hangout group, or movements of the sulkers. The results of the investigation are received by PM at the end of the phase.
Blackened players may decide to disrupt the investigation they are a part of by sending me a PM. While this ruins the investigation efforts of all players involved, this also expose their presence as part of the group.
The information obtained from an investigation depends of the number of players involved. One or two players will receive tier 1 information, 3 or 4 players will also receive tier 2 information, and 5 or more players will also receive tier 3 information.
The information received is as follows :

Investigation	Murder victim	Suicide victim	Punishment victim	Group alibis	Sulkers movements
Tier 1 information	Cause of death (murder)	Cause of death (suicide)	Cause of death (punishment)	If any commited murder	Clears a non-murderer at random
Tier 2 information	In wich group the murderer is	Cause of suicide	Wich rules were broken	If any is blackened	Instead, clears a non-blackened at random
Tier 3 information	Murderer identity	Who is involved in the suicide	How many blackened remain (public annoucement)	Identity of a random blackened in the group	How many blackened are among the sulker

Trial
This is the proper 'day' phase and will last around 48 hours. During this phase, players can vote for another player to be executed. The player with the most votes is taken out. In the case of a tie, all tied players are executed.
If one person was executed by an absolute majority vote, their team affiliation and ultimate talent are revealed. Otherwise, they remain secret.
Due to vote manipulation powers, the tally of the votes is not made public.

Regulations
Members of the white team must follow additional regulations that may change over time. Monokuma will punish players who commited any rules violations after each daily life phase. The one and only punishment is death.
Punishments are executed after murders.
At the start of the game, the following regulations are already in effect :
Explicitly claiming your Ultimate talent is forbidden (you're allowed to lie and claim another though).
Abstaining to vote during a trial is forbidden.


Ultimate talents
Every player has an Ultimate talent (or role) that gives them an advantage during the game.
Talents currently in rework, specifics depending on the base rules.

I'm not sure if this is deliberately, but I didn't see much about suicide in your description.
Will the black team be in communication with each other?
Has ever member of the black team a kill, or is this a shared kill, which can be used by every member, but only one at a time?

Otherwise, the rules look interesting, but I think it will be tricky to get enough players to make it work out well. So depending on the actual number of players, it might be necessary to tweak the numbers for the investigation. Or maybe turn them into fractions of living players?

All in all, I think it's a nice variation of the classic theme. I'm looking forward to see how this is going to work out in play.

[Cazero]

I'm not sure if this is deliberately, but I didn't see much about suicide in your description.

That's because suicides will be caused by role powers.

Will the black team be in communication with each other?

Yes.
Wich reminds me, is there an official GitP discord or something for these? Or does everyone who needs one make their own?

Has ever member of the black team a kill, or is this a shared kill, which can be used by every member, but only one at a time?

Each blackened can plot a kill every day. There will be powers to cancel some of those so it shouldn't spiral too fast.

Otherwise, the rules look interesting, but I think it will be tricky to get enough players to make it work out well. So depending on the actual number of players, it might be necessary to tweak the numbers for the investigation. Or maybe turn them into fractions of living players?

I'm not really worried about that. The game is supposed to be winnable by town without tier 3 info.

[Book Wombat]

Wich reminds me, is there an official GitP discord or something for these? Or does everyone who needs one make their own?

The latter, everyone makes one as needed.

[Taffimai]

@AV Unless Supagoof shows up to claim his spot, I will start recruiting on Monday 10/10 for two weeks (let me know if you've changed how you're doing things). I will admit that I love the idea of running my candy-themed game over Halloween

[AvatarVecna]

@AV Unless Supagoof shows up to claim his spot, I will start recruiting on Monday 10/10 for two weeks (let me know if you've changed how you're doing things). I will admit that I love the idea of running my candy-themed game over Halloween

I've still not heard word back, so yeah, that's fine.

[Book Wombat]

Could you replace Dreamscape with The Tarot Club II and Ouroboros with A Practical Guide to Evil?
Many thanks!

[AvatarVecna]

Could you replace Dreamscape with The Tarot Club II and Ouroboros with A Practical Guide to Evil?
Many thanks!

Schedule altered.

[bladescape]

Sorry for being royally late, but congratulations Bladescape with getting seventh place in your semi, and sorry you didn't get to sub into the finale!

<3

I feel I could've done better, but it is what it is. Thank you for the support ^^

[Cazero]

Some Danganronpa roles. Not sure they're as balanced as they ought to be.
I could probably give a "cover story" to each blackened (and grey roles) and remove the regulation about revealing your role. On the other hand, some roles like the Artist get a lot more powerful when revealed.
Thoughts?

Spoiler: White roles

Show

Ultimate Detective
The Ultimate Detective identifies clearly all attempts and effects that should disrupt their investigation. Their personal investigation results can only be disrupted by other ultimate talents.

Ultimate Memorist
When sulking, the Ultimate Memorist can conduct a bonus investigation on a past case by sending me a PM. They will receive tier 2 information.

Ultimate Influencer
During every trial, the Ultimate Influencer can choose to force one of the player they were hanging out with this day to vote alongside them by sending me a PM.
The targeted player is made aware by PM that their vote was changed, but receive no more information than that about it.

Ultimate Vigilante
The Ultimate Vigilante is blackened, giving them the ability to plot murders and counting as black team for the purpose of ending the game, but they are part of the white team. The Ultimate Vigilante and others blackened don't know each other at the start of the game.
The Ultimate Vigilante doesn't need to be executed for a White team victory.

Ultimate Lucky
The first time someone tries to murder the Ultimate Lucky, their attacker is killed in a freak accident that is investigated as a suicide and can't be cancelled. The Ultimate Lucky is made aware of the event by PM.

Ultimate Guesser
The Ultimate Guesser receives a PM with the name of a random living player at the start of each daily life phase, with a 50% chance of that name being from the black team players.
When sulking, the Ultimate Guesser gets another name by PM with the same condition at the end of the daily life phase.

Ultimate Prankster
The Ultimate Prankster can disrupt the investigation they are a part off as if they were blackened. If they do, they personaly receive investigation results one tier higher than they would have without disrupting the investigation.

Ultimate Celebrity
Publicly declaring their ultimate talent and affiliation cannot be a rule violation for the Ultimate Celebrity.
In addition, when they do, their declaration is confirmed by a public message from Monokuma at the start of the next phase.

Ultimate Artist
Every blackened who hangs out with the Ultimate Artist sees their murder plan canceled, except the Ultimate Femme Fatale.
Every blackened who sees their murder canceled learn by PM that it was caused by the Ultimate Artist, but not who it is.

Ultimate Therapist
Players who hang out with the Ultimate Therapist will not commit suicide. Instead, they receive a PM telling them what power they were targeted with.
The Ultimate Therapist receive a PM informing them of any such canceled suicides and their causes.

Ultimate Mentalist
The Ultimate Mentalist can make a read of a player they're hanging out with during each daily life phase and a player they're investigating with during each deadly life phase by sending me a PM. They will learn the Ultimate talent of their target. A second read on the same target will give team affiliation.

Ultimate Socialite
The Ultimate Mentalist receive information one tier higher when investigating their own hangout group, and still receive tier 1 information about their hangout group when investigating anything else.

Ultimate Scientist
When the Ultimate Scientist investigates a body, they receive information one tier higher than normal.

Ultimate Athlete
If the Ultimate Athlete is hanging out in the gym or sulking, any murder plan targeting them is canceled, except those of the Ultimate Femme Fatale. The blackened who sees their attack canceled are informed by PM that it is due to the Ultimate Athlete talent, and the Ultimate Athlete is informed by PM that an attempt was made on their life.

Ultimate Survivor
At the end of every daily life phase where nobody died, the Ultimate Survivor receives by PM the name of a new random initial member of the black team (dead or alive).

Ultimate Drama Queen
Investigating the body of the Ultimate Drama Queen provides information one tier higher than usual.
When the Ultimate Drama Queen should be punished, executed, or forced to commit suicide, their death is delayed to the end of the next daily life phase and is a suicide. The Ultimate Drama Queen is informed by PM that their suicide is imminent. This suicide can't be cancelled.

Ultimate Martyr
Investigating the body of the Ultimate Martyr provides information one tier higher than usual.
When someone hanging out with the Ultimate Martyr should be murdered, the Ultimate Martyr is targeted instead.

Ultimate Paranoid
The Ultimate Paranoid investigates as their own separate group of one person. They also disarm traps in their hangout area.

Ultimate Coach
When the Ultimate Coach hangs out with exactly one other player, murder plans targeting either of them are cancelled, except for the Ultimate Serial Killer and the Ultimate Femme Fatale.

Ultimate Medic
The Ultimate Medic can choose by PM to safeguard one player they're hanging out with. Attempted murder and suicides against the safeguarded player will fail. The player you saved will learn your role and the blackened who attacked them will learn about your intervention.

Ultimate Fast-Talker
The Ultimate Fast-Talker can make Monokuma punish a player of their choice during a daily life phase by sending me a PM. Monokuma will refuse to punish blackened players.

Spoiler: Grey roles

Show

Ultimate Impersonator
Once per game, during any phase, the Ultimate Impersonator can decide to impersonate any dead player by sending me a PM.
Starting on the next phase, the Ultimate Impersonator will gain the Ultimate talent and affiliation of the dead player and learn what they were by PM.

Ultimate Fighter
The Ultimate Fighter starts the game as part of the white team.
If any player attempts to murder the Ultimate Fighter, the Ultimate Fighter kills them and become blackened.
If the Ultimate Fighter is punished by Monokuma, Monokuma will send a public message informing everyone of the event.

Ultimate Stalker
The Ultimate Stalker chooses a crush on the first daily life phase by sending me a PM. They side with the team of their crush, but have to guess it. If their crush changes team, so does the Ultimate Stalker.
If the Ultimate Stalker chooses to sulk, they receive by PM the results of a tier 2 investigation on the hangout group of their crush at the end of the daily life phase.
The Ultimate Stalker can disrupt an investigation as if they were blackened.
The Ultimate Stalker commits suicide at the next daily life phase if their crush dies.

Ultimate Turncoat
The Ultimate Turncoat starts in the white team, but starting on day 3, they can choose to plot a murder like any blackened. They become blackened if they succesfully kill someone.

Spoiler: Black roles

Show

Ultimate Hypnotist
Once per game, the Ultimate Hypnotist can turn one of the players they're hanging out with into their hypnotized puppet, who is blackened.
As long as the puppet is alive, every murder plan of the Ultimate Hypnotist is carried out by their puppet instead, allowing the Hypnotist to lay low the entire time. The puppet is not made aware of it.
The puppet is made aware by PM that they are blackened after the Ultimate Hypnotist dies.

Ultimate Femme Fatale
The murder plans of the Ultimate Femme Fatale cannot be canceled by Ultimate talents.
Investigating alibis of the hangout group of the Ultimate Femme Fatale cannot yield tier 3 information.

Ultimate Serial Killer
If the Ultimate Serial Killer targets a player hanging out with exactly one other player, the Ultimate Serial Killer kills them both.

Ultimate Assassin
Investigating victims of the Ultimate Assassin can only yield tier 1 information.

Ultimate Trapmaker
Instead of plotting a murder, the Ultimate Trapmaker can trap a hangout location, killing a random player (other than the Ultimate Trapmaker) hanging out there. The trap can kill other blackened players.
If nobody hangs out in the trapped location, the trap remains in place. It will activate the next time someone does hang out in the trap location.
The Ultimate Trapmaker is considered laying low for investigation purposes when setting a trap. Trap victims are considered as suicides. If a trap makes a victim on a different day that the one it was set, investigating it provides information of one tier lower.

Ultimate Blackmailer
If the Ultimate Blackmailer tries to murder a player they have hung out with at some point in the past, they can force their target to commit suicide instead by specifying it in their PM.

Ultimate Manipulator
During trials, the vote tally against the Ultimate Manipulator is always reduced by one.

Ultimate Trickster
The Ultimate Trickster can disrupt an investigation they are not part of.

Ultimate Framer
When disrupting investigation of a body, the Ultimate Framer can change it into a murder victim murdered by the person of their choice instead of reducing the information tier.

(Also I'm lurking the Utropia thread.)

(Also also, is this thread appropriate for all those questions?)

[JeenLeen]

I might give a full response later, but to Ultimate Hypnotist: I like the idea overall, but I recommend not making the hypnotized actually on the blackened team. Folk sometimes get rather annoyed at being made to swap teams, especially if Town was close to winning. That said, it still works well enough.
If the hypnotized dies while the Ultimate Hypnotist is alive, would they flip Town, Town-Hypnotized, or Blackened?
Would the hypnotis get to target a new puppet?

---

The fact that Ultimate Survivor exists could change the player dynamic. If I were that role, I'd claim every other role (to implicitly claim it) and try to arrange things to stop a kill so we can find a wolf for sure.
On the other hand, no kill means no trial and no lynch... so I guess that balances out.

[Let'sGetKraken]

Sign me up for a bastard game on the rotation. "Cover of Night".

[AvatarVecna]

Sign me up for a bastard game on the rotation. "Cover of Night".

Scheduled.

[Cazero]

I might give a full response later, but to Ultimate Hypnotist: I like the idea overall, but I recommend not making the hypnotized actually on the blackened team. Folk sometimes get rather annoyed at being made to swap teams, especially if Town was close to winning. That said, it still works well enough.

I was thinking of giving them the choice : suicide and stay town, or commit to wolf.

If the hypnotized dies while the Ultimate Hypnotist is alive, would they flip Town, Town-Hypnotized, or Blackened?

It would flip Town.

Would the hypnotis get to target a new puppet?

I'd say no. It would make them too powerful relative to the others blackened. But if I were to buff them all, it could be a simple change to make.

The fact that Ultimate Survivor exists could change the player dynamic. If I were that role, I'd claim every other role (to implicitly claim it)

If you want to paint a giant target on your back... (also I'm fixing that claim loophole thing by giving coverup roles to wolves and not forbidding claims)

and try to arrange things to stop a kill so we can find a wolf for sure.

That's supposed to be the hard part. You basicaly need to catch all blackened under the artist unless they decide to lay low, wich I don't expect to happen often. I'd need to see how hard it actualy is in game.
As of now, I fear that the Ultimate Survivor is both too powerful and useless because of how rare deadless nights would be.

[JeenLeen]

@AV if the "using another's game" rule allows it, put me down for a UPick: Worm game.
By the time it's my turn, I should have Discord figured out well enough to use it.

Idea is folk can send me 3 capes from Wildbow's Worm (no Slaughterhouse Nine) and I choose one as a character and write a power. If someone isn't familiar with Worm, they can send 3 super tropes/hero ideas and I'll pick a cape that fits one of those. Capes chosen will not impact alignment.

Wolves are the Slaughterhouse Nine, who <surgeon cape whose name I forget> has altered to look like another cape. So each S9 wolf has a cover story of one of the capes they pick. Narrator will make sure no overlap (e.g., no Skitter, and a S9 posing as Skitter, in the same game.)

When I was first reading Mafia on the forum, I read AV's S9 game from years ago. It was entertaining.

[AvatarVecna]

@AV if the "using another's game" rule allows it, put me down for a UPick: Worm game.
By the time it's my turn, I should have Discord figured out well enough to use it.

Idea is folk can send me 3 capes from Wildbow's Worm (no Slaughterhouse Nine) and I choose one as a character and write a power. If someone isn't familiar with Worm, they can send 3 super tropes/hero ideas and I'll pick a cape that fits one of those. Capes chosen will not impact alignment.

Wolves are the Slaughterhouse Nine, who <surgeon cape whose name I forget> has altered to look like another cape. So each S9 wolf has a cover story of one of the capes they pick. Narrator will make sure no overlap (e.g., no Skitter, and a S9 posing as Skitter, in the same game.)

When I was first reading Mafia on the forum, I read AV's S9 game from years ago. It was entertaining.

It's generally a "please ask" kinda thing. I personally don't mind, and I don't think Unavenger's been around since Upick 2 at all, so it's whatever to have the series continued by multiple people. It's possible gac would have an issue, but considering he didn't even ask...

I'll go ahead and update the schedule

[gac3]

It's generally a "please ask" kinda thing. I personally don't mind, and I don't think Unavenger's been around since Upick 2 at all, so it's whatever to have the series continued by multiple people. It's possible gac would have an issue, but considering he didn't even ask...

I'll go ahead and update the schedule

Offense. I did ask. Unavenged took a stand of "sure, go for it. I didn't come up with this concept."

- - - Updated - - -

Unless you mean ask you. In which case I didn't. I asked unavenger though.

[Xihirli]

I didn't ask any of the previous narrators if I could take over Battle Royale.