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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    BardGuy

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    Default Theme build: The Boxer.

    Ok new theme:

    The gentleman boxer.

    Some special info first:

    Normal point buy.
    Bonus feat at first level.
    New item for use: Knucks: 1d4 light, finesse, is considered an unarmed strike and a weapon. So a monk can use them as unarmed but can enchant them later, or other classes can TWF with them if needed.
    UA feats and things are ok but not UA subclasses.
    Will not use other weapons at all, not will they use a shield.

    The character is designed to be a true pugilist, does not matter if it is str or dex based or what armor is used but no weapons or shields other than unarmed weapons. They dress and try to act noble but donít really have to be social.

    Group dynamics wonít really matter so just the best boxer we can come up with.

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Orc in the Playground
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    Dec 2019

    Default Re: Theme build: The Boxer.

    a few questions:

    is this meant to be am instant build? like,fully theoretical 'you start at x level'?

    or is this meant to be more realistic so like, you're starting at level 1 and working up?

    magic items: you alluded to magic items, does that mean we're allowed to pick magic items?

    finally, what level, and what items?
    Last edited by kazaryu; 2020-02-27 at 08:59 PM.

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    BardGuy

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    Default Re: Theme build: The Boxer.

    Quote Originally Posted by kazaryu View Post
    a few questions:

    is this meant to be am instant build? like,fully theoretical 'you start at x level'?

    or is this meant to be more realistic so like, you're starting at level 1 and working up?

    finally, what level?
    Say level 6.

    2 uncommon magic items and reasonable non magical gear.

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    DruidGuy

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    Default Re: Theme build: The Boxer.

    Race: Variant Human (Defensive Duelist for keeping your gloves up) Point buy (after racials): 10 16 14 8 16 8

    Fighter (Battlemaster) 15/Monk (Drunken Master) 4/Forge Cleric 1

    You work in the local foundry during the day, but you're down on your luck and further down on your coin, so in the evenings you head to a disused barn on the edge of town where you can trade bloody blows whilst rich people look on and bet. The paint stripper the local calls liquer and your da's old necklace of Gond are the only solace you find between shifts and bouts.

    Mechanically you wear one knuck under your right glove, you call it the equaliser, which lets you trigger your Dueling fighting style, throwing in a wild left to finish your combination (3d4+9 a round before Blessings of the Forge, maneuvers and any ASIs). Every now and then you throw a flurry their way and take some dancers steps back (Drunken Sway), if that barn had any ropes you'd be telling the dope across from you to say your name.

    Edit: Wrote this before I saw the level 6 part, damn!
    Last edited by Dork_Forge; 2020-02-27 at 09:06 PM.
    For D&D 5e Builds, Tips, News and more see our Youtube Channel Dork Forge

    Feel free to message for any build requests or challenges

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Orc in the Playground
     
    DwarfClericGuy

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    Default Re: Theme build: The Boxer.

    I played a Monk character like this. He wasn't a "Shaolin Kung Fu Master" like the typical Monk. Instead, he was an alcoholic lightweight bare knuckle brawler who was lithe and fast, with quick reflexes, a lightning fast left jab, and a mean right hook. (Think Brad Pitt's character from the movie "Snatch", just without the unintelligible accent.)

    You can flavor nearly all of the lower level standard Monk abilities to fit a boxer-type character, even reflavoring Ki as "bursts of adrenaline" or whatever. It's only when you get into the higher level "understands all languages, doesn't age, sends astral projections" mystical type abilities that the Eastern monk influence becomes too overt to ignore. But that doesn't start until Level 13ish.

    And as for subclasses, some are easy to make fit. Obviously, a boxer wouldn't normally be blasting fire and bending water like a Four Elements Monk, or shooting laser beams from their fists like a Radiant Sun Monk, or teleporting around and summoning darkness like a Shadow Monk. But either Long Death or Open Hand works well with a boxer style of Monk, with Long Death being more about toughness and intimidation, and Open Hand being more about knocking your opponents around with brute force or sneaky tricks.


    So, for a sample "gentleman boxer" build, how about:

    Variant Human Long Death or Open Hand Monk 6
    STR 8
    DEX 14+1
    CON 14
    INT 8
    WIS 15+1
    CHA 12
    Racial Skill: Acrobatics
    Class Skills: Insight, Stealth
    Background: Courtier - *Perception, Persuasion
    Free Feat: Athlete (+1 DEX)
    Variant Human Feat: Mobile
    4th level ASI: +2 DEX

    You could also do DEX 15+1 and WIS 14+1, and then take either Observant (+1 WIS) or Resilient WIS (+1 WIS) in place of Athlete as your free feat. (Going this route with Resilient WIS would be the more "optimized" option, but Athlete probably fits the overall character concept better.)


    If you want a few more HP per level, it could also be a Hill Dwarf with:
    STR 8
    DEX 15
    CON 14+2
    INT 8
    WIS 15+1
    CHA 10
    Free Feat: Squat Nimbleness (+1 DEX and Acrobatics Proficiency)
    Last edited by RogueJK; 2020-02-27 at 11:13 PM.

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Ettin in the Playground
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    Default Re: Theme build: The Boxer.

    Quote Originally Posted by Misterwhisper View Post
    Ok new theme:

    The gentleman boxer.

    Some special info first:

    Normal point buy.
    Bonus feat at first level.
    New item for use: Knucks: 1d4 light, finesse, is considered an unarmed strike and a weapon. So a monk can use them as unarmed but can enchant them later, or other classes can TWF with them if needed.
    UA feats and things are ok but not UA subclasses.
    Will not use other weapons at all, not will they use a shield.

    The character is designed to be a true pugilist, does not matter if it is str or dex based or what armor is used but no weapons or shields other than unarmed weapons. They dress and try to act noble but donít really have to be social.

    Group dynamics wonít really matter so just the best boxer we can come up with.
    In the dragon heist campaign, Jarlaxle can add his charisma to his AC, I do not wish to begin something crazy.... but this might be appropriate for this build actually

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    BardGuy

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    Default Re: Theme build: The Boxer.

    Quote Originally Posted by djreynolds View Post
    In the dragon heist campaign, Jarlaxle can add his charisma to his AC, I do not wish to begin something crazy.... but this might be appropriate for this build actually
    Havenít looked at it but pretty sure that is more a specific thing just for him.

    I did toy with the idea of a hexblade boxer who was just so much of a showman it helped his combat ability, kind of Classic Creed like. Would even use illusions for his own theme music and pyro.

  8. - Top - End - #8
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    WolfInSheepsClothing

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    Default Re: Theme build: The Boxer.

    All the featherweights in this thread. Heavyweight boxing is an endurance sport. Dodge hits where you can, sure, but of you can't take a few hits you're done for.

    The new Unarmed Fighting style for fighters is where I'm starting my heavyweight, 1d8 damage right off the bat, and the grappling ability is also very relevant (though boxers call it a "clinch"). One level in barbarian gives us unarmored AC, extra hp, and of course rage. After that it's back to fighter, getting that action surge and second wind, then we get to battlemaster. This is where we go pro.

    A ton of battlemaster maneuvers make sense here. Riposte gets you a free punch and extra damage in when the other guy drops his guard to take a swing. Feinting Attack gets you advantage and extra damage. Precision Attack can make a near miss into a hit. I think my favorite combo though is Menacing Attack plus Pushing Attack. Land the first hit to ring his Bell and make him realize he"s way out of his weight class, then knock him back 15 feet to put him on the ropes. If it all lands he's got no choice but to waste a bunch of his next turn readying an attack or dodging or something, because the fear effect means he can't approach you.

    Fighters also get the bonus feats, which will allow them to max out all three physical stats. Since we've got a free feat at level 1 let's take tough and call it a day.

    Only very high level monks will be able to match his base damage, and he's got all those superiority dice to pile on the damage as well. His AC will only lag behind the Monk's by a bit at early levels, catching up soon enough. His action surges and extra attacks means he attacks faster than the monk in the first few rounds at high levels, 12 attacks in two rounds compared to the monk's 8. It takes the monk 4 more rounds to catch up to the number of attacks thrown, and by then the fight is likey over.
    Last edited by Damon_Tor; 2020-02-28 at 01:35 AM.

  9. - Top - End - #9
    Nobody in the Playground Moderator
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    Default Re: Theme build: The Boxer.

    So you cannot use the UA Brute Fighter? It would be perfect. Punches would deal 2d4+Str from level 3 on and only get better the more levels you take in class.

    The other iffy option would be to take the Unarmed Fighting style which makes your punches deal 1d6+Str damage.

    If you can't take Brute or that Unarmed Fighting style, a regular Battlemaster with TWF would be fine. You could use the various maneuvers for flavor and extra damage.

    A re-flavored Open Hand Monk would probably be the best "boxer" though. Just max Dex and Wis. You could flavor the high AC as boxing defense like real life boxers. Even dress the part. You only wear robes and trunks. When it's time to roll initiative, you drop the robe and are ready to fight.

    Your "Knucks" would qualify for the Rogue's Sneak Attack making a Monk/Rogue Multiclass a great option here. That's what I would do.

  10. - Top - End - #10
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    WolfInSheepsClothing

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    Default Re: Theme build: The Boxer.

    Quote Originally Posted by CTurbo View Post
    So you cannot use the UA Brute Fighter? It would be perfect. Punches would deal 2d4+Str from level 3 on and only get better the more levels you take in class.

    The other iffy option would be to take the Unarmed Fighting style which makes your punches deal 1d6+Str damage.
    The rule was no subclasses but that "feats and things" were fine. Fighting Styles are not Subclasses, they are "things". So it appears to work.

    If you can't take Brute or that Unarmed Fighting style, a regular Battlemaster with TWF would be fine. You could use the various maneuvers for flavor and extra damage.
    I came to the same conclusion. Battlemaster is the way to go, not only because it's probably the best all-around fighter subclass, but also because many of the maneuvers feel so right on a boxer.

    A re-flavored Open Hand Monk would probably be the best "boxer" though. Just max Dex and Wis. You could flavor the high AC as boxing defense like real life boxers. Even dress the part. You only wear robes and trunks. When it's time to roll initiative, you drop the robe and are ready to fight.
    I took a level of barbarian for comparable unarmored defense (plus rage and d12 hp) and I think with the AC gap closed the monk really can't compete. Stunning Strike is great and all, but let's be real, that's a con save. A fighter or barbarian based character is going to have no problem passing that save. The fighter throws just as many punches at most levels of play for the first few rounds of combat, and for much more damage once you factor in the superiority dice. He's also has way more HP to soak up hits and with a level in Barbarian he's got rage to cut incoming damage in half (while also increasing the amount of damage he's putting out). The monk's main selling point is mobility, but boxing limits you to a 20 foot square, there's nowhere to run.

    In particular, the open hand's ability to knock the other guy prone isn't useful in boxing: you aren't allowed to keep hitting a guy once he's down. Knocking him back isn't very useful either without some other element to keep them there (like the Menacing Attack/Pushing Attack combo I mentioned earlier). There are some niche uses for being able to restrict their reactions (like the Battlemaster's Riposte) but it's not great. Wholeness of Body isn't terrible I guess, but the fighter has Second Wind, which heals for less but as a bonus action, so they don't have to stop fighting to do it. Really the subclass doesn't get anything useful for boxing until Quivering Palm, which, granted, is excellent, but it comes so late in the build it's hard to use it to justify the other 16 levels where the fighter is so much better.

    If I was going to do this as a monk, it would be a Kensei, with the Knucks as the kensei weapon. Agile Parry is just a free +2 to AC here, and you can still use defensive duelist. Deft strike is a weaker version of the Battlemaster's superiority damage, but he's also got Sharpen the Blade to increase damage and accuracy. Is it as good as the heavyweight? No, but I think it's the best choice if you're set on a monk for this.

    Your "Knucks" would qualify for the Rogue's Sneak Attack making a Monk/Rogue Multiclass a great option here. That's what I would do.
    That's a cool idea, but you've got to come up with a way to get advantage without knocking the guy prone first. As an MMA fighter, where ground fighting is allowed, sure, punch those kidneys, but this is a boxer. A few levels of rogue would actually be an alright addition to the heavyweight: Battlemasters can use Feinting Attack to get advantage.

  11. - Top - End - #11
    Ettin in the Playground
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    Default Re: Theme build: The Boxer.

    Quote Originally Posted by Misterwhisper View Post
    Havenít looked at it but pretty sure that is more a specific thing just for him.

    I did toy with the idea of a hexblade boxer who was just so much of a showman it helped his combat ability, kind of Classic Creed like. Would even use illusions for his own theme music and pyro.
    AFB, but all of these NPCs/monsters a few of them had it.... it was called suave defense for "swashbucklers" its CR3, not rogues but they had lightfooted and they could use dash or disengage as a BA... no sneak attack damage

  12. - Top - End - #12
    Orc in the Playground
     
    DwarfClericGuy

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    Default Re: Theme build: The Boxer.

    Quote Originally Posted by Damon_Tor View Post
    That's a cool idea, but you've got to come up with a way to get advantage without knocking the guy prone first. As an MMA fighter, where ground fighting is allowed, sure, punch those kidneys, but this is a boxer.
    By going Swashbuckler, you would eliminate the need for Shoving Prone to generate Sneak Attack.

  13. - Top - End - #13
    Pixie in the Playground
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    Default Re: Theme build: The Boxer.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dork_Forge View Post
    Race: Variant Human (Defensive Duelist for keeping your gloves up) Point buy (after racials): 10 16 14 8 16 8

    Fighter (Battlemaster) 15/Monk (Drunken Master) 4/Forge Cleric 1

    You work in the local foundry during the day, but you're down on your luck and further down on your coin, so in the evenings you head to a disused barn on the edge of town where you can trade bloody blows whilst rich people look on and bet. The paint stripper the local calls liquer and your da's old necklace of Gond are the only solace you find between shifts and bouts.

    Mechanically you wear one knuck under your right glove, you call it the equaliser, which lets you trigger your Dueling fighting style, throwing in a wild left to finish your combination (3d4+9 a round before Blessings of the Forge, maneuvers and any ASIs). Every now and then you throw a flurry their way and take some dancers steps back (Drunken Sway), if that barn had any ropes you'd be telling the dope across from you to say your name.

    Edit: Wrote this before I saw the level 6 part, damn!
    I love this concept!

  14. - Top - End - #14
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    BardGuy

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    Default Re: Theme build: The Boxer.

    Battlemaster with the unarmed fighting style with 1 level of barbarian would be pretty nice.

    I doubt that unarmed like from that fighting style would count for TWF style or dueling style.

  15. - Top - End - #15
    Nobody in the Playground Moderator
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    Default Re: Theme build: The Boxer.

    I would personally make this either a Kensei/Battlemaster, Kensei/Swashbuckler, or Kensei/Battlemaster/Swashbuckler

    What 3 levels of Kensei Monk gives you-
    1. Unarmored Defense
    2. Martial Arts which can easily be reflavored as boxing. You get a reliable bonus action punch that you can add your ability mod too. Pretty much equal to the TWF style.
    3. Ki which gives you a few options of course Flurry of Blows being the best, but "Dodge" is flavorful too for a boxer.
    4. A bit of extra movement is nice.
    5. Nearly permanent +2 AC as long as you're punching things

    What 3 more levels gets you-
    6. ASI
    7. Larger Martial Arts die
    8. Extra Attack if you decide to take more Monk levels than Fighter
    9. Even more extra movement
    10. The ability to make your attacks "magical" which is huge.


    What 5 levels of Swashbuckler gives you-
    1. Cunning Action is just strong for any melee build.
    2. Expertise! Put it in Athletics even if you're Dex focused to help with some Battlemaster maneuvers
    3. 3d6 Sneak Attack damage that you can use TWICE per round with the Riposte maneuver
    4. You can get sneak damage when you're 1 on 1 against an enemy
    5. You can also walk away after punching an enemy without worrying about attacks of opportunity
    5. Uncanny Dodge! It's just great!

    What Battlemaster gives you-
    1. That fancy new Unarmed Fighting style.
    2. Action Surge!
    3. Second Wind
    5. Extra Attack up to X2 extra
    6. Extra ASIs to help Max Dex+Wis
    7. of course the great maneuvers


    I would probably end up with Monk 3/Fighter 12/Rogue 5 but Monk 12/Fighter 3/Rogue 5 would be good too.

    If you drop Monk completely, I'd max Str, take the TWF style instead of Unarmored style, and do a more even split of Fighter Rogue maybe 11/9 or 12/8 for more Sneak Damage twice per round.

    Other than Defensive Duelist and possibly Sentinel, there really aren't any other mandatory feats I can think of that min-maxes "boxing". Of course Lucky, Alert, and Mobile are always good.

  16. - Top - End - #16
    Dwarf in the Playground
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    Default Re: Theme build: The Boxer.

    Whatever you do, be sure to work in the Ritual Caster feat. Get yourself a set of robes and a pointy hat, insist that you are a Wizard. Become increasingly more flustered trying to cast spells in combat until finally snapping and beating down everything in reach.

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