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  1. - Top - End - #151
    Titan in the Playground
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    Default Re: Opening cinematic of Baldur's Gate 3

    The philosophy casters thing probably came out because some players wanted to not "tie up" their characters to a god and still wanted the cleric chassis to play the same. I would (personally) argue against it, but it's a pretty can-of-wormsy path of discussion.

  2. - Top - End - #152
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    NecromancerGuy

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    Default Re: Opening cinematic of Baldur's Gate 3

    Quote Originally Posted by Cespenar View Post
    The philosophy casters thing probably came out because some players wanted to not "tie up" their characters to a god and still wanted the cleric chassis to play the same. I would (personally) argue against it, but it's a pretty can-of-wormsy path of discussion.
    I would say it depends on how it is pulled off.
    A group like the Creed of the Stone that gets their powers from a group of beings* that align with their cause works, someone flinging around divine power because they're so dedicated to the colour orange not so much.

    But yeah, in a setting where not having a god means your soul gets stuffed into the brick pile of eternal suffering that seems like something that shouldn't work.
    I mean, if that's what they do to people that don't pay protection, what will they do to those offering their victims a alternative?
    No, I would expect any group that could empower non-theistic clerics to get dealt with as soon as they appear.

    *Be it elementals or other outsiders who only as a collective have the ability to grant that level of power or gods too minor to be worshiped individually.
    "If it lives it can be killed.
    If it is dead it can be eaten."

    Ronkong Coma "the way of the bookhunter" III Catacombium
    (Walter Moers "Die Stadt der träumenden Bücher")



  3. - Top - End - #153
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    Millstone85's Avatar

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    Default Re: Opening cinematic of Baldur's Gate 3

    Quote Originally Posted by Kantaki View Post
    I would say it depends on how it is pulled off.
    A group like the Creed of the Stone that gets their powers from a group of beings* that align with their cause works, someone flinging around divine power because they're so dedicated to the colour orange not so much.
    Eh now, you could easily have a setting where people believe reality is built on a color wheel, and ascribe a different code of conduct to each color, in the vein of Magic: The Gathering or DC's Lantern Corps.

    What matters is the character being not only a strong believer but the representative of a widespread faith.
    Quote Originally Posted by 5e DMG p13, Forces and Philosophies
    The power of a philosophy stems from the belief that mortals invest in it. A philosophy that only one person believes in isn't strong enough to bestow magical power on that person.

  4. - Top - End - #154
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    Narkis's Avatar

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    Default Re: Opening cinematic of Baldur's Gate 3

    Quote Originally Posted by Driderman View Post
    I might be mistaken but I think that the requirement of worshipping a god to be able to channel the divine power of gods wasn't really an established thing before 3rd edition D&D, as there wasn't really much of a precedent for "philosophy"-casters before then.
    The Time of Troubles was the event that justified in-universe the change from 1ed to 2ed. At the end of it, Ao decrees that the gods have abused their followers for too long, and from now on will require their faith for sustenance. It was then that Kelemvor became the new God of the Dead, tried to tear down the Wall of the Faithless and was forced by the other gods to keep it up as a stick for mortal worshipers.

    I figure that unless you're a divine class (and possibly still then) or a Faithless, in a polytheistic world like Faerun you'd likely give offerings to many gods. As far as I remember the 3rd edition books at least also mention this.
    Indeed, everyone (who wasn't an atheist) paid homage to different gods for different things. Even clerics respected and venerated other gods, especially those allied with their god. Still, they were heavily encouraged to worship a single god above all else. That god was supposed to take them to their afterlife, or they'd be left behind in a depressive existence as a False in the City of the Dead.
    Many thanks to Assassin 89 for this avatar!

  5. - Top - End - #155
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    Kish's Avatar

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    Default Re: Opening cinematic of Baldur's Gate 3

    Quote Originally Posted by Driderman View Post
    I might be mistaken but I think that the requirement of worshipping a god to be able to channel the divine power of gods wasn't really an established thing before 3rd edition D&D, as there wasn't really much of a precedent for "philosophy"-casters before then.
    Yes, it was*. The Forgotten Realms was already the lone campaign setting where a ranger, paladin, or druid was expected to choose a divine patron. 3ed backed off from the "EVERYONE needs to choose a divine patron or they can't be resurrected because Myrkul yeets them into a wall the second they die" level it was at previously.

    And godless clerics are as old as 1ed AD&D.

    *Although the "to be able to channel the divine power of gods" line obscures the issue; the Forgotten Realms is the only setting where "casting a non-arcane spell" is or has ever been** synonymous with "channeling the divine power of gods."

    **At least as late as 3.5ed. Don't know what 4ed or 5ed did. The latter of those may well matter to this computer game, if somewhere in the Player's Handbook it says "rangers, druids, paladins, and clerics are all granted spells by specific gods in response to prayers."
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    "The really unforgivable acts are committed by calm men in beautiful green silk rooms, who deal death wholesale, by the shipload, without lust, or anger, or desire, or any redeeming emotion to excuse them but cold fear of some pretended future. But the crimes they hope to prevent in the future are imaginary. The ones they commit in the present--they are real." --Aral Vorkosigan

    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    This, in a nutshell.
    Yes, exactly.

  6. - Top - End - #156
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    Default Re: Opening cinematic of Baldur's Gate 3

    From the current D&D basic rules (page 22):

    Divine magic, as the name suggests, is the power of the gods, flowing from them into the world. Clerics are conduits for that power, manifesting it as miraculous effects. The gods don’t grant this power to everyone who seeks it, but only to those chosen to fulfill a high calling. Harnessing divine magic doesn’t rely on study or training. A cleric might learn formulaic prayers and ancient rites, but the ability to cast cleric spells relies on devotion and an intuitive sense of a deity’s wishes.
    Last edited by Clertar; Today at 06:17 PM.
    "Like the old proverb says, if one sees something not right, one must draw out his sword to intervene"

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