How Do You Play a Paladin?

[USS Sorceror]

I’m making a new character for Pathfinder 2E because my current society character is too high of a level to play in most adventures. At first I was gonna play a cleric but I’ve been convinced by another player to play a champion, path2’s version of the Paladin. Champions can be of any good alignment, but because of the deity I picked for this character I have to be Lawful Good.
I’ve never played a paladin before, and I know there’s not one true way to play such a character. However, I trust this forum’s advice. How should I go about playing this character?
For reference, these are the tenets from the core rules:
You must never perform acts anathema to your deity or willingly commit an evil act, such as murder, torture, or the casting of an evil spell.
You must never knowingly harm an innocent, or allow immediate harm to one through inaction when you know you could reasonably prevent it. This tenet doesn’t force you to take action against possible harm to innocents at an indefinite time in the future, or to sacrifice your life to protect them.
You must act with honor, never taking advantage of others, lying, or cheating.
You must respect the lawful authority of legitimate leadership wherever you go, and follow its laws.

[Lord Raziere]

Generally: just be reasonable, be helpful, do what you can and if your party ever actually needs to break the law, lie, cheat or steal remember your specialization and let the rogue handle it, your code does not apply to them and you should not hold the rest of your party to your rules. your codes a personal thing and should not get in the way of other players fun.

[Peelee]

I ask myself, "what would Obi-wan Kenobi do?"

Living, Alex Guinness Kenobi.

[Kelb_Panthera]

3e version for me.

While there's obviously some cultural variation in paladins between the various races and regions of a campaign world, they all have a few things in common when I play them.

Good before Law and measured justice against wrong-doing.

Whiile you are charged by the cosmic forces of good with finding and rooting out evil and injustice wherever you can, you are -not- judge, jury, and executioner for everything that pings on your evil-dar. In any society with a legitimate power structure, you defer to the rules of that society unless doing so will cause direct, irreversible harm to the innocent. If that would be the case though then, the law be damned, justice must prevail.

When you do find evil, you need to know how much before you act on it. 1/3 of humans are evil but only a fraction of that are guilty of the sort of evil that requires a good smiting. Be on your guard with such people but talk to them and ask around. If a shopkeeper is shafting his customers and laughing about it, a stern talking-to is much more appropriate than a sword in the gut. That said, when you find the less banal form of evil; cultists, fiends, marauders, etc; become the implacable bulwark and hammer of righteousness against it. Mercy is a virtue, it is not a requirement (unless you're exalted).

Finally, you're nobody's nanny and you're -supposed- to have a positive wisdom modifier. When it comes to the misdeeds of your allies, turn a blind eye unless it's an act of genuine evil. They'll have to answer for their actions when they meet their gods. Not everyone can stand on the straight and narrow path without faltering, not even all paladins. Unless you're actually in command or custody of them, you are not responsible for what others choose to do.

Beyond these commonalities, my paladins vary a lot.

[Mongobear]

"They were sometime known as the twelve peers.

Now, historically, they were the foremost members of Charlemagne's court. Although, many of their most famous exploits are largely ficticious--Representing Christian martial supremacy over the Saracen hordes.

Well, my friend... THAT'S a Paladin."

--Noah Antwiller

[OldTrees1]

Paladins are intimately familiar with the concepts of Moral, Amoral, & Immoral. Not only do they want to do the right thing, but that motivation is their Prime motivation.

So when I play a Paladin I ask them these questions:

1) What makes moral actions moral? What makes immoral actions immoral?
2) What are your moral failings? Which of them are you currently working on?
3) What ought you do here?

Different Paladins have different answers.

I know I am doing a good job RPing a Paladin when the Paladin starts to ask me those difficult questions.

[paddyfool]

I ask myself, "what would Obi-wan Kenobi do?"

Living, Alex Guinness Kenobi.

Hide in a cave for a couple of decades? Die in the first episode of the story while lying to his student about that student's father? :P

[Pleh]

I ask myself, "what would Obi-wan Kenobi do?"

Living, Alex Guinness Kenobi.

Hide in a cave for a couple of decades? Die in the first episode of the story while lying to his student about that student's father? :P

Sworn to service of the Council and defense of Democracy. Could Obi Wan be Paladin with Oath of the Crown?

[Lord Torath]

I ask myself, "what would Obi-wan Kenobi do?"[/COLOR]

How about, "What would Hinjo do?"

Or even better, "What would O'Chul do?" Read "How the Paladin Got his Scar" for more on this excellent Paladin.

[Man_Over_Game]

Sometimes, the best way a Paladin can play with a group is as an opinionated moral compass, not as a rigid zealot with a "White Knight" complex.

Complain when your friends try to cheat their way out of problems. Refuse to do crimes, unless you're convinced it's for the greater good. Try to help people, when doing so doesn't hinder your ability to do a greater good. Even if you're somewhat against it, go along if only so that you can ensure that the least amount of damage is dealt.

That's it. Nobody wants someone who feels like a turncoat, even if they're a goody-two-shoes. Nobody wants someone who demands that everything be perfect constantly. Intra-party drama is only good when both sides change for a compromise. Otherwise, they'll be forced to play your game.

That's what gives Paladins a bad reputation: bad players, who don't acknowledge everyone else as equals or partners.

[LibraryOgre]

Ask yourself, "What would Mr. Rogers Do?" Steve and/or Fred, take your pick. More often, Steve; Fred was a bit less likely to bash someone in the face with a shield, which needs to happen sometimes when Evil is real and present.

Seriously, as others have said, your code applies to you. This does not mean you should wink and nod and let everyone else get away with everything ("I'm going to go get some donuts. Anyone want something?"), but your job is not to make everyone do everything the best way, but to advocate for the best way, provide an example of the best way, and support things getting better. Law is the Means, Good is the Ends, and the Means must always serve the Ends, not the other way around. Remember, in AD&D, you could get around the occasional Chaotic act, but never an Evil one.

Law is structure and institutions, not just what's written down in a legal code; a legal code that has ceased to serve good ends needs to be changed, not simply abolished... you don't make things better with anarchy, but by building something that lasts and will provide mercy and justice.

When dealing with mortals, consider redemption. Some men, you just can't reach, but that doesn't mean you don't try. To quote Wonder Woman, "Don't kill if you can wound, don't wound if you can subdue, don't subdue if you can pacify, and don't raise your hand at all until you've first extended it." This can go out the window with real Evil, of course; demons don't change, and a lot of people won't Diana still killed Maxwell Lord when it came time.

[USS Sorceror]

Thanks for the replies! A couple quick thoughts in response to them.
Since this character is for Pathfinder Society play I won’t really have to worry about my fellow PCs doing evil deeds. Therefore she’ll more likely lead by example. By virtue of her deity she will likely be diplomatic first but keep her weapon at the ready if necessary, which matches some of what I’m seeing here.
Additionally I see her as being a “team mom” who will slay any monster who strikes he “babies” (fellow PCs). I think it would be interesting to play a Paladin who is very protective/nurturing.

[OldTrees1]

Additionally I see her as being a “team mom” who will slay any monster who strikes he “babies” (fellow PCs). I think it would be interesting to play a Paladin who is very protective/nurturing.

Nurturing the good in people is a wise way to move the world towards utopia.

[Bulhakov]

“team mom”

Awesome if your friends agree with the role, but it might be worse if some decide to be "rebelious teens" :)
My advice is just to play the "moral compass" of a group and don't dive into "lawful stupid" territory (Warning! TV tropes link, may trigger a binge: https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.p...n/LawfulStupid)

[Clistenes]

From my point of view, it is enough if you play your paladin as if they were a modern cop trying to capture a criminal, or a modern blue helmet soldier trying to keep peace in a war-torn region, or a modern soldier taking part in a war without breaking the Geneva Conventions... You don't have to be a martyr or a saint, just try to be civilized...

You don't have to pull out a holy book and start preaching to the captured bandits, or to offer yourself to be executed in place of a hostage... just do your job as a peacekeeper and protector in a civilized, righteous way...

Your average medieval dude may want to skin, eviscerate and/or burn alive the captured bandits... the paladin will fight (and kill) until they surrender, and afterwards he will keep them as prisoners without torturing them until he can hand them over to a legitimate judge who will give them fair trial.

[ngilop]

Think "what would Optimus Prime do?"

Pop Culture peeps to think of when doing lawful good: Samurai Jack, Lone Ranger, Marge Gunderson, even Mr Feeny.

[Dienekes]

Honestly, I just try to be the best I can.

Now I make certain to give my characters a flaw (all the best stories of chivalric knights involve them flailing then overcoming said flaw). But yeah as a whole, I just try to play a good person trying to navigate terrible circumstances.

[Telwar]

Think "what would Optimus Prime do?"

Pop Culture peeps to think of when doing lawful good: Samurai Jack, Lone Ranger, Marge Gunderson, even Mr Feeny.

Optimus Prime is a very good example!

[UnfavorableWit]

personally i always just took their oath and how might that paladin see what that oath would mean to them.

like what would a oath of vengeance paladin see as vengeance based on his background? do they play the long game or are they a loose cannon, do they see evil and rids it by measuring twice or do they cut three times at evil?

all i do know is that their background should shape how they act towards their oath as their own philosophies interpret what it means to be a paladin in their own eyes unless taught otherwise.

[kyoryu]

Two fundamental rules.

1) You ARE your oath. You believe in your oath fully, and completely. You don't find it onerous, you think it's the only possible way to be. Breaking your oath is a betrayal of who you are. It's not something you keep while it's convenient, and it's not something you chafe against. If keeping those principles means something else bad happens, you're okay with that, because you see the principles as, in the long run, worth it.

2) You are not JUST your oath. You're an individual, with your own goals and desires that have nothing to do with paladin-ness. While your oath forms your moral center and your guidelines, it is not your motivation. You have things you like, people you love, people you hate. You have dreams, hopes, aspirations, and fears. You have likes and dislikes. You have a family and a history, and those are not marked "Paladin".

[atanamis]

When playing any character with a strong focus, it is important to consider how the way you play your character impacts other players. The other players might enjoy tweaking the nose of your goody two shoed paladin, or they might find constantly having their actions second guessed to be annoying. Playing together with a group means finding a group dynamic that everyone finds fun. Over the first few sessions, how everyone plays their characters NEEDS to shift as you find that balance. And that's what a good paladin is. A character with a clear strong focus on their oath. This is something which is very important to them, but has to be important in a way that allows them to interact with the other characters in a way that is fun for all the players and game master.

Some player groups are able to handle inter-character conflict well and have it be part of the fun, many find it frustrating and potentially hurtful to player relationships. One of the best campaigns I played in had two of our characters consistently manipulating and hoarding loot from the other two. As players, we all knew what was happening and me and the player of the other "innocent" character thought it was hilarious when our characters consistently didn't pick up on the fact that our characters were being taken advantage of. But in other groups I have seen friends get into shouting matches because they didn't feel their character was being treated fairly. I think paladins tend to work best in groups where the players are willing to play well meaning characters who honestly want to help others. Then the paladin can be the kind of nurturing leader you describe.

If you do have players who "aim to be bad", playing your paladin like Shepherd Book (Firefly) can be a good model though. You don't approve the actions and won't participate in efforts you see as abusive, but as long as the general path isn't negative you can get along.

[DataNinja]

The times that I've played a paladin, it's been a lead-by-example type. Note that this doesn't mean that you have to be a stick-in-the-mud, though. Mine was very much a 'charming rogue', putting that Charisma to use. He would drink heartily, carouse, and all that good stuff. (And making it clear that, yes, this is a one-night-stand that doesn't mean anything than he'll be leaving to go smite evil - Lawful Good means you're honest about that stuff!)

While your teammates might not be paragons, that's okay. The path of a paladin is hard. You can provide guidance, but trying to dictate a person's life will generally just make them push back. Show them the virtuous life, be the example to the world, the beacon to look up to. As long as your team isn't evil, you can hope that by doing good, some of that will rub off on them - maybe just because they're friends, and want to make you happy.

[Peelee]

Hide in a cave for a couple of decades?

Lived in a house. Both the outside and inside are on-screen.

Die in the first episode of the story while lying to his student about that student's father?

Only considering the first movie, meaning he died at the end and only ever told Luke the truth.


:p

How about, "What would Hinjo do?"

Or even better, "What would O'Chul do?" Read "How the Paladin Got his Scar" for more on this excellent Paladin.

Also good.

[NichG]

So, Paladins tend to be heavily stereotyped (both when played, and in how people view them when they hear 'such and such is going to play a paladin'). In that case, I think it can be useful to look at one's own assumptions about what a paladin 'must' be like, and find the assumptions you can flip around. That will give you this kind of constant background motivation to explore your own understanding of the possibilities and will help the character both be deeper and have the potential for growth. There's also something here about being 'as fair as possible' to the concept, but it's hard for me to phrase...

For example, in my case I have a bias that generally people who are of a Lawful alignment are motivated more strongly by aversion than attraction - that is, Lawfulness seems appealing to me when one 'wants to make sure they haven't made a mistake' versus someone who 'wants to make sure they made the best decision'; someone who wants to avoid wrongdoing more than they want to pursue positive change; etc. If I follow this line of thought, it leads to stodgy traditionalist severe conceptions of a paladin.

So if I wanted to play a paladin, I'd try to figure out the exact opposite motivation but with the same general end-point. That is, how could I imagine a character who had such a strong positive experience with regards to lawfulness and goodness (or their potential) that they're driven proactively to seek it and support it. Someone who doesn't follow their code because they'll be punished for breaking it, but who follows their code because doing so makes things better (for themselves, those they care about, others, the world, etc) in some kind of way that they can viscerally perceive or feel. Not just an abstract 'it is better if people do what they are supposed to' (which is just a repackaging of the fear of 'what if they didn't?!'), but something like seeing people be united in a transcendent moments where they finally received justice for a wrongdoing, or were able to come to a peaceful resolution of a quarrel, or unified a disparate people into a civilization by way of a common set of laws.

I'd try to make a paladin who is so strongly motivated towards this positive vision that every step brings themselves and others around them into alignment with this ideal of how good things could be - someone who leads by example, who inspires just on the basis of having a clear view of something others can't quite grasp or which seems out of the realm of the possible to them, etc. And I'd try to hold to that concept of a positive drive towards good rather than a negative drive away from evil in the details of all interactions between the paladin and others. E.g. punishing a criminal in isolation moves away from the fear that they may break the law again, but rehabilitating one (or allowing those who have been wronged to publically determine their punishment) are more 'moves towards' than 'moves away'. You could of course go very dark with this concept ('lets make an example of this wrongdoer, so others are spurred forward to righteousness') but I feel that sort of betrays the concept of being driven by positivity. That would, in essence, be what it looks like for this character to fall - where they were willing to make other people bring about their vision through fear and avoidance when their own inner motivations were to move towards a positive. And 'paladins fall' is another stereotype to be avoided, IMO.

So anyhow, that's what I might play if I were to play a paladin.

[Morty]

Be brave, noble, protect the helpless, don't take the easy way out, don't take half-measures that compromise your sense of morality. The paladin code led to decades of furious overthinking, but I don't think it's really that complicated.

[Segev]

When I played a paladin, he was kind, gentle, and friendly, with an easy sense of humor and a willingness to tease and be teased, but a sensitifity to avoid being mean about it. He wanted to see the good in everybody, even things his paladin senses told him were utterly evil. He would tolerate evil beings, but not evil acts, and would chastise - gently at first - those who misbehave. But if somebody or something pushed the line, and insisted they must engage in wickedness at the cost of innocents' suffering, he would intervene. Sadly, but resolutely.

That isn't to say he hated fighting. If it was to a non-lethal, non-permanent conclusion, he could enjoy such things as contests of strength and skill. But he hated doing harm that wasn't going to be swiftly aleviated, and though he was angry at times, he hated being so.

He's also the one with the white wyrmling cohort. The GM was lenient on alignment restrictions on cohorts to permit this. He spent a lot of time babysitting White Shadow's behavior, and White Shadow spent a lot of time convincing himself that he was acting in such a way because it was regal, and not because he'd be in trouble if he was malicious.

[Waterdeep Merch]

A good-humored, commiserate hero. A grim-a-din has a habit of going Judge Dredd. You should be like the best depictions of Superman- honest, hopeful, helpful, willing to put yourself on the line to protect others. What others call corny naivete is in reality what gives you the strength to endure.

Smile and crack a corny joke every now and then. Tell your best dad jokes. Be a big lovable capital H Hero.

[Jay R]

The biggest mistake most people make in playing a paladin is forgetting that loyalty is a virtue, as important as any other.

Be loyal to the party. These are your allies and partners; they are not your slaves. Your oath is binding on you alone.

Any moral dilemma cause by your oath is your dilemma. You must solve it yourself, not demand that the party change who they are to eliminate your problem.

[Erik the Green]

First, on the meta level, here's a thought:

What if the hypothetical paladin is with the party because they asked for one? That is to say, in the context of a relatively good and mostly well-run kingdom, a party of good (or at least neutral with standards) freelance problem solvers ran into something that worried them enough that they decided the greater good (and their survival) meant that they needed a shiny supernaturally empowered special forces solder in the mix? And, since paladins are made by the gods but organized and paid by men, some reasonable authority figure assessed the threat matrix and assigned the party one. Said paladin might not be the team leader at first (or ever), might not be the team face, but they will be a source of fighting power, added options for survivability, organization, and staying on the side of good. The paladin will also be the party link with the larger temporal forces of good and law, and if the threat that brought them together was real, that's a win for the party, the paladin, and the kingdom as a whole. That's lawful good right there, and nothing says it can't be profitable, too, unless the only possible loot is, you know, all Vile artifacts.

Second, some inspirational quotes about the price you pay for the cool powers and the pretty maidens throwing flowers in your horses path:

"You are the tool, not the work. Expect to be valued accordingly."
"The rules say, when someone is in trouble, you have to go out. They don't say you have to come back."
"Who I am is where I stand, and where I stand is where I fall. Now, what do you believe in enough to die for?"

[Xuc Xac]

My favorite paladin was the total opposite of the rigid stick-in-the-mud, wet-blanket paladin stereotype. If you didn't see "paladin" on the character sheet, you would probably guess "bard" or maybe "rogue". When you're putting your life on the line every day and ready to die at a moment's notice to do the right thing, you have to enjoy every moment and suck the marrow out of life! And if you have a high amount of Constitution and Charisma, that means you have a lot of stamina and you're super charming. Combined with a supernatural immunity to diseases, there's no reason not to enjoy happy private time with all the ladies as long as you're not a paladin of one of those real world Abrahamic religions that considers chastity a virtue. I might die tomorrow fighting some horrible beast to save some people I don't even know because it's the right thing to do, but I'm alive right now, so bring on the wine, women, and song! He was more Thor than Captain America as far as "worthy" Avengers go.