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  1. - Top - End - #1501
    Titan in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: The Corona Virus

    Quote Originally Posted by veti View Post
    I'm glad. At least it's rational. The perp wasn't crazy, he wasn't acting out of group loyalty or a "need to be right" or a hatred of "the enemy" - just old-fashioned ignorance. We know the treatment for that.
    What are you talking about. That is not a rational argument. There is no substance known to mankind capable of mutating the DNA of a human being. That is the exclusive realm of superhero origin stories. For a pharmacist to claim that as a "reason" is far beyond ignorance, well into the realm of conspiracy theories, which at their root are crazy group loyalty.

    And no, calmly explaining to a pharmacist that has presumably had at least four years of university education that no substance that fits in a bottle can possibly do what they claim it will do is not going to produce any result on the the delusional maniac other than you being branded a THEM. He already got that education, and had to throw the whole thing into a bin if he's so far around the bend as to believe for a second the nonsense he spouts. Further education will be similarly ignored.

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    Last edited by Grey_Wolf_c; 2021-01-04 at 10:32 PM.
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    But really, the important lesson here is this: Rather than making assumptions that don't fit with the text and then complaining about the text being wrong, why not just choose different assumptions that DO fit with the text?
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  2. - Top - End - #1502
    Dragon in the Playground Moderator
     
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    Default Re: The Corona Virus

    Quote Originally Posted by veti View Post
    I'm glad. At least it's rational.
    That... is not at all how I would characterize it.
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  3. - Top - End - #1503
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    Default Re: The Corona Virus

    Quote Originally Posted by veti View Post
    I'm glad. At least it's rational. The perp wasn't crazy, he wasn't acting out of group loyalty or a "need to be right" or a hatred of "the enemy" - just old-fashioned ignorance. We know the treatment for that.

    If people could be allowed to air their doubts in shared fora, with a reasonable expectation that they won't be labelled insane or retarded or delusional crazy people - just answered, calmly and respectfully - then maybe fewer of them would slink off to the cesspits of YouTube misinformation spirals and Facebook echo chambers.
    I mean this is rational in roughly the same way that murdering your neighbor because you think he's a communist lizardman spy is rational. Sure it's a plan to solve a problem you believe exists, but the problem itself is entirely false, and based on buckets of bad assumptions and faulty reasoning. You can respectfully explain how mRNA works until you are blue in the face, but it won't phase somebody who believes it will turn people into mutants, because the belief isn't logical or rational, at least in the sense of corresponding to physical reality. The underlying belief fulfills a pretty basic human need to feel right and important and like part of a community; exposure to contradictory information if anything tends to deepen belief in the falsehood because it's perceived as an attack on that community. Because we're social monkeys first and everything else second, for most people their chosen community is always right, both factually and morally. About the best one can do is to make a person question those beliefs on their own, which is less a matter of presenting facts, and more a matter of longterm sewing of doubts.
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  4. - Top - End - #1504
    Ettin in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: The Corona Virus

    Quote Originally Posted by Grey_Wolf_c View Post
    There is no substance known to mankind capable of mutating the DNA of a human being. That is the exclusive realm of superhero origin stories.
    I could swear that just about all carcinogens mess with DNA expression. Radiation definitely messes with DNA composition. Viruses can also mess with DNA (there are a few dozen that are permanently part of the human genome). And for those of us who never got beyond bio 100 in college (which probably should not include pharmacists, but I can get out my stick and complain about slipping education standards until blue in the face), knowing the difference between mRNA and a straight up virus is, to put it mildly, a hard sell. And everyone in the news is just spouting off "mRNA vaccine" without normally taking the time to explain how they actually work. So somebody getting confused about it is not a hard sell, especially when we have "new type of vaccine that has never been tested" blasted around by eager science reporters at the same time everyone is crowing about how horrible everything is.

    Now, presumably, they have spent no small amount of fundage and time testing mRNA procedures in animals, so the scientists who made the vaccine have some idea how it works. I, on the other hand, only have what I pieced together from a couple snippets on the radio and half remembered nonsense from 9th grade biology.

    I imagine that getting mRNA that makes cells produce anti-cancer drugs will do interesting things to medicine. Or an mRNA that makes your body produce antibiotics (albeit I doubt that such will ever be worth the hassle of getting stabbed and having to cart the treatment around at negative 1000 degrees).
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  5. - Top - End - #1505
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    Default Re: The Corona Virus

    Rational in the sense of logical. If you accept the premise, then the action seems both meaningful (which it wouldn't be if you merely believed the vaccine was an overpriced placebo) and benign (aimed at preventing harm).

    As for the perp's education and training, from my position of extreme ignorance I am not going to jump to conclusions or make assumptions about that. I will point out that a lot of medical professionals have been under a lot of pressure now for a very long time, and under such circumstances it'd be, frankly, very impressive if he *could* remember areas of his education that seem pretty remote from his everyday work.

    And if the response here is anything to go by, I can quite see why he wouldn't want to raise his doubts either in public or through official channels.
    "None of us likes to be hated, none of us likes to be shunned. A natural result of these conditions is, that we consciously or unconsciously pay more attention to tuning our opinions to our neighbor’s pitch and preserving his approval than we do to examining the opinions searchingly and seeing to it that they are right and sound." - Mark Twain

  6. - Top - End - #1506
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    Default Re: The Corona Virus

    Quote Originally Posted by veti View Post
    Rational in the sense of logical. If you accept the premise, then the action seems both meaningful (which it wouldn't be if you merely believed the vaccine was an overpriced placebo) and benign (aimed at preventing harm).

    As for the perp's education and training, from my position of extreme ignorance I am not going to jump to conclusions or make assumptions about that. I will point out that a lot of medical professionals have been under a lot of pressure now for a very long time, and under such circumstances it'd be, frankly, very impressive if he *could* remember areas of his education that seem pretty remote from his everyday work.

    And if the response here is anything to go by, I can quite see why he wouldn't want to raise his doubts either in public or through official channels.
    Except the action he's taking is actively harmful to other people and not based in reality at all. It's equivalent to trying to cure leapers by burning them to remove their impurities.

    Well lets see here, is it better to be mocked for your ignorance or go to jail and likely never be able to use your expensive post secondary education ever again? There isn't a pharmacy in the country that'll hire him now.
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  7. - Top - End - #1507
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    Default Re: The Corona Virus

    Quote Originally Posted by warty goblin View Post
    I mean this is rational in roughly the same way that murdering your neighbor because you think he's a communist lizardman spy is rational. Sure it's a plan to solve a problem you believe exists, but the problem itself is entirely false, and based on buckets of bad assumptions and faulty reasoning.
    Ho, please. At least the murder solution actualy adresses the made-up problem.
    Putting vaccines out of the fridge to spoil them then back on is only making that alleged "mutation" thing more unpredictable and risky. Just make them disappear if you think they're that dangerous.
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  8. - Top - End - #1508
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    Default Re: The Corona Virus

    Leaving aside the biology (about which I know practically nothing) removing the vaccine means truly believing that practically every doctor, every government, every chemist in the world is lying to you and is totally onboard with an evil plot to mutate the world's DNA for.......................reasons.
    That's not rational
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  9. - Top - End - #1509
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    Default Re: The Corona Virus

    Quote Originally Posted by Rockphed View Post
    I could swear that just about all carcinogens mess with DNA expression. Radiation definitely messes with DNA composition. Viruses can also mess with DNA (there are a few dozen that are permanently part of the human genome). And for those of us who never got beyond bio 100 in college (which probably should not include pharmacists, but I can get out my stick and complain about slipping education standards until blue in the face), knowing the difference between mRNA and a straight up virus is, to put it mildly, a hard sell. And everyone in the news is just spouting off "mRNA vaccine" without normally taking the time to explain how they actually work. So somebody getting confused about it is not a hard sell, especially when we have "new type of vaccine that has never been tested" blasted around by eager science reporters at the same time everyone is crowing about how horrible everything is.
    Those mess with a cell's DNA. The difference between damaging a cell's DNA and changing an entire human's is astronomical.
    But if you're willing to accept that changing a cell's DNA is equivalent to changing a human's DNA, then you're at least halfway to the point where you can say the vaccine changes your DNA. Except the problem with that is you then have to be terrified of every virus, because they do the exact same thing, only on a much grander scale.
    That's all I can think of, at any rate.

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  10. - Top - End - #1510
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: The Corona Virus

    Time for a new thread , I think.

    Respectfully,

    Brian P.
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