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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    BardGuy

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    Default Coronavirus is at my job

    Iím a healthcare worker at a hospital in NJ.

    We just had a confirmed case here.

    Iím scared. I have kids at home. My parents were supposed to visit this weekend. I didnít have any direct contact with this patient but I know I walked past their room without being told.

    My father is immune-compromised and Iíve cancelled my parents visit this weekend.

    I know Iím probably safe (Iím 49, in decent health), but itís the older people and kids Iím most worried about.
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    Default Re: Coronavirus is at my job

    While some allowance must be made for the unreliability of data at this stage, the Wuhan evidence suggests that children are much less vulnerable to the disease than adults. There have been no deaths of children under the age of 9 and the mortality rate for ages 10-19 is 0.2%.

    So I wouldn't worry too much about your kids with regard to this: the elderly and yourself seem to be more vulnerable. That said, presumably kids can still act as reservoirs and it's obviously a good idea for them to practise good hygiene anyway.
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    BardGuy

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    Default Re: Coronavirus is at my job

    Quote Originally Posted by Aedilred View Post
    While some allowance must be made for the unreliability of data at this stage, the Wuhan evidence suggests that children are much less vulnerable to the disease than adults. There have been no deaths of children under the age of 9 and the mortality rate for ages 10-19 is 0.2%.

    So I wouldn't worry too much about your kids with regard to this: the elderly and yourself seem to be more vulnerable. That said, presumably kids can still act as reservoirs and it's obviously a good idea for them to practise good hygiene anyway.
    Wouldnít you worry though?

    Also, I didnít place this in my above post, but one of my kids is asthmatic (more susceptible) and my wife diabetic (more susceptible).

    Iím scared. I know people are blowing this off, but it really needs to be taken seriously.
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    Default Re: Coronavirus is at my job

    Hi Klorox,

    Writing as I am from Italy, I think I can relate; it looks like this virus will be with us for a while.
    Fear won't help, obviously, but it's certainly a very human reaction, and better than pretending nothing is wrong. We acted like everything was peachy at the beginning, and look how well it turned out for us.
    I think you have done well to cancel the visit to your parents; better safe than sorry.

    As Aedilred wrote, at the moment kids look to be relatively safe, so there is this one bright point in all this mess.
    That said... if your family can stay at home for a while, now it would probably be a good time to do so.
    Individually, avoiding uneccessary contacts and disinfecting often seems to be the only measures that reduce the spreading of the virus.

    The next few weeks might be very intense for all of you healtcare workers, so remember to take some time for yourself to unwind, both online and in real life.

    Stay strong!

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    Default Re: Coronavirus is at my job

    Best of luck at your work and keeping your family healthy.

    I teach an assortment of outdoor classes in Minnesota (USA), and the climbing wall that I teach at is shut down for the month of March. Hopefully we're taking enough preventative measures here to manage the spread of CORVID-19, but it still sucks to loose the shifts. The outdoor educator/enthusiast side of me hates that we aren't teaching people how to climb, but the statistics major that did a bit of my studies on public health and population network sampling (related to disease transmission) side of me hates that our stores are open at all.

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    Default Re: Coronavirus is at my job

    Klorox,

    I can understand being concerned about your family, particularly your parents. Being a nurse,and dealing with contagious patients, I can relate. However, I would like to try to assuage some of those concerns.

    Merely walking by the room of a diseased patient is not going to expose you to the virus. Coronavirus patients would be on Droplet Precautions, so you would need to be within 3-5 feet of a coughing patient to be exposed, or in physical contact with something that they had contaminated (without it being cleaned), and then touch your face or mucus membranes without first washing or sanitizing your hands in order to risk infection. In other words, if you aren't working directly with them, your infection risk is next to zero.

    [Wrong information] Furthermore, the death rate for the coronavirus is very small, much less than that of influenza. [/wrong information] I'm sorry, that was completely incorrect information, and entirely my fault!

    The news has been making a big deal out of the virus, too much of a deal, honestly.

    I would recommend you go to the the CDC website for further information.

    In the immortal words of Douglas Adams, Don't Panic.
    Last edited by Melayl; 2020-03-13 at 05:07 PM. Reason: Incorrect information given! Sorry!

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    BlackDragon

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    Default Re: Coronavirus is at my job

    Quote Originally Posted by Melayl View Post
    Furthermore, the death rate for the coronavirus is very small, much less than that of influenza. The news has been making a big deal out of the virus, too much of a deal, honestly.
    Sorry, that's plain wrong? The death rate from coronavirus is around 3% of infected people, while 'flu is maybe 0.1%. The only reason there are more deaths from 'flu than coronavirus so far is because there are a lot more cases of it.

  8. - Top - End - #8
    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: Coronavirus is at my job

    Quote Originally Posted by Melayl View Post

    Furthermore, the death rate for the coronavirus is very small, much less than that of influenza. The news has been making a big deal out of the virus, too much of a deal, honestly.
    If you consider 25 - 40 times more as 'very small, much less', then yes, you are in a world of your own (from your listed location).
    Last edited by Maelstrom; 2020-03-12 at 05:16 AM.

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    Default Re: Coronavirus is at my job

    Quote Originally Posted by Klorox View Post
    Wouldnít you worry though?

    Also, I didnít place this in my above post, but one of my kids is asthmatic (more susceptible) and my wife diabetic (more susceptible).

    Iím scared. I know people are blowing this off, but it really needs to be taken seriously.
    Iím not a parent, so the part of the brain that automatically worries about oneís children remains inactive in my case. But I can understand concern for their wellbeing, especially if some of them are immunocompromised.

    Nevertheless I think one has to try to be rational. There are a lot of dangers in the world of which this is just one. To put it in perspective, and again based on current data which may not be reliable, the risk to under-10s from Covid-19 is considerably lower than, say, the risk of being struck by lightning. There are bigger threats to worry about in day-to-day life, like getting run over, or falling down the stairs.

    It does need to be taken seriously, but it is more of a macroscopic problem than an individual one. A disease which kills 1% of the population is a massive problem for governments and for society: it will tank the economy and cause strain on public health services, supply chains, etc. and that will in turn cause death and suffering.

    But at an individual level, even if you do catch it, which is not guaranteed, you're overwhelmingly likely to make a full recovery, and so is everyone you know and care about. For the elderly and immunocompromised the risk is obviously higher, but the odds are still very much in their favour especially if they're able to get medical attention.

    It seems to me there is a very real risk here of panic and overreaction doing more damage than the disease itself. See for instance, at a relatively minor level, the rush buying of face masks, which unless you're infected or in very close contact with someone who is, have negligible effect on spread of the disease, but which led to a shortage for areas which need it for legitimate purposes (healthcare etc.)

    It is entirely possible I am underreacting, but I do feel like the best thing we can do is maintain good hygiene practices and otherwise go about our lives as normal until we're told to do otherwise.

    Quote Originally Posted by factotum View Post
    Sorry, that's plain wrong? The death rate from coronavirus is around 3% of infected people, while 'flu is maybe 0.1%. The only reason there are more deaths from 'flu than coronavirus so far is because there are a lot more cases of it.
    The latest figures I've heard are closer to 1%, but that's still a lot higher than seasonal flu, indeed. Compare, however, with SARS, which had a mortality rate of about 10%.
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    WolfInSheepsClothing

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    Default Re: Coronavirus is at my job

    I think that this is my first pandemic (evidently it is my second, there was one in 1977). I am in Chicago, but we (the rest of the USA) may be a week away from where Italy is. I was hoping for 3-5 weeks from where Seattle is.

    On the way to work I often stop at Target and pick up breakfast and lunch. Today there were about twelve times as many folks in the store, and people were buying toilet paper like crazy.

    I bought the important stuff this morning Ö sixteen bars of Cadbury chocolate.

    I also picked up:
    1 case of toilet paper (I am up to two cases)
    1 case of Kleenex (I am up to three 6-packs)
    2 boxes of instant rice
    2 large jars of peanut butter
    2 cases of Ensure (12-packs)
    1-pound of flour (my 12-year-old daughter has taken to making noodles, so it might be fun to have something to do that you can eat)
    1 Lego set (Harry Potter train) Ö I am hoping that it will be fun to build with my 10-year and 12-year old if we get cooped-up.

    Last week I bought a few of those squeezable jelly containers, and two boxes of gluten-free waffles (for peanut butter and jelly).

    Mostly normal stuff for me (though I don't eat that much rice), but we might be held up in the house for 2-weeks.

    I should pick up some more gluten-free waffles (peanut butter and jelly eatin' waffles), and some more ensure (the 48-cases from Costco Ö but, going there would be a nightmare).

    My wife will likely pick up some stuff on the way home from work. I will likely pick up some perishables foods as well (things that should not be sitting in my car while I am at work).

    -----

    I understand that this is 10x as deadly as the flue.

    Most likely we will just be told to stay home for a few weeks.

    If this was killing children, then there would be a much MUCH higher level of panic.

    -----

    My work is starting up a work-from-home option for most (?) of the company.

    One of the questions that my company asked in the survey was "How far from your modem/router is your workstation at home?" I was like bi*ch please I will be 1-foot from my modem/router with a wire connected directly from the computer to the modem/router. I ain't no laptop-usin' wireless video game playin' gamer. I use me some speeeed wire! I also somewhat grognard out over having a "proper" computer.

    -----

    Well they just closed an office building ~1-mile away from my work office for the corona virus (downtown Chicago). The individual fell ill on the 5th, and tested positive recently. That was about a week ago.
    Last edited by darkrose50; 2020-03-12 at 12:11 PM.

  11. - Top - End - #11
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rainbownaga View Post
    I swear, 1 handed quarterstaves are 5e's spiked chain.


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  12. - Top - End - #12
    Troll in the Playground
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    Default Re: Coronavirus is at my job

    Quote Originally Posted by factotum View Post
    Sorry, that's plain wrong? The death rate from coronavirus is around 3% of infected people, while 'flu is maybe 0.1%. The only reason there are more deaths from 'flu than coronavirus so far is because there are a lot more cases of it.
    3% of confirmed infected people. Considering you can be asymptomatic and still be infected means that the actual death rate is likely far lower. It was somewhere around 0.7% (IIRC) on that cruise ship that was initially quarantined and that's a pretty broad spectrum of people to be tested (though even there you have a bit of a bias towards older people which would make the death rate worse).

  13. - Top - End - #13
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    Default Re: Coronavirus is at my job

    Quote Originally Posted by Chen View Post
    3% of confirmed infected people. Considering you can be asymptomatic and still be infected means that the actual death rate is likely far lower.
    All that is true for the flu as well. Not everyone that catches the flu any given year is accounted for. The death rate given for it is, I'd imagine, also based on confirmed cases.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chen View Post
    It was somewhere around 0.7% (IIRC) on that cruise ship that was initially quarantined and that's a pretty broad spectrum of people to be tested (though even there you have a bit of a bias towards older people which would make the death rate worse).
    If you mean the Diamond Princess, they are up to 7 deaths out of 696 patients, with 364 still not recovered & 32 in critical condition, and thus might still go up, but is past 1% already.

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    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: Coronavirus is at my job

    Quote Originally Posted by Grey_Wolf_c View Post
    All that is true for the flu as well. Not everyone that catches the flu any given year is accounted for. The death rate given for it is, I'd imagine, also based on confirmed cases.
    Technically true, but the flu has been around much longer, with much more reliable data. I'd guess the mortality rate for the flu is much more well-defined than the novel coronavirus.

    In any case, Klorox, as a health care professional, you're sort of on the front lines for the current battle. It makes sense for you to be on heightened alert. Having said that, you should also know that there isn't currently any significant risk to you or your family. Both patients and coworkers are going to rely on you to continue working throughout the crisis, and it's going to be a big problem if you're worried about even walking past someone's room who had the disease.

    What I'd reccomend for you is a "one step further" approach. You know the virus is within the hospital, so act as though it's one step further along - spreading to a small number of staff/patients. Wash your hands, don't touch your face, keep distance between yourself and others as much as possible. If it begins to actually spread, act as though it has spread one step further. Perhaps after that, act as though you did have the virus, and work to keep your family somewhat isolated. If you proceed along that plan, you have the relief of knowing that you're not only responding to what the virus has done, but you're proactively responding to what it could do next. Don't worry yourself by waiting until it begins to spread before taking further action - stay one step ahead. But only one step. Any further and you're giving in to panic for little additional protection.
    That's all I can think of, at any rate.

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    Default Re: Coronavirus is at my job

    Quote Originally Posted by Strigon View Post
    Technically true, but the flu has been around much longer, with much more reliable data. I'd guess the mortality rate for the flu is much more well-defined than the novel coronavirus.
    Possibly, but I doubt anyone in this thread is an actual expert, so when I read the ECDC say that the coronavirus is 20-30 times more deadly than the flu, I believe them over the assertions of a random poster.

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    But really, the important lesson here is this: Rather than making assumptions that don't fit with the text and then complaining about the text being wrong, why not just choose different assumptions that DO fit with the text?
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    Default Re: Coronavirus is at my job

    Different populations though
    In China it was a city mainly full of younger adults - meanwhile in Europe its a population with a much higher population of elderly people
    Add in general wealth leading to higher proportions of those elderly having health conditions like heart conditions
    And then add in that in western countries many elderly people end up living in care homes with others of their age and the prospects are the mortality rate will be much higher
    Unfortunately people were too greedy for Chinese tourist spending to do what should have been done back around Chinese New Year and stop flights from China
    'Utķlie'n aurŽ! Aiya EldaliŽ ar AtanatŠri, utķlie'n aurŽ! ďThe day has come! Behold, people of the Eldar and Fathers of Men, the day has come!" And all those who heard his great voice echo in the hills answered, crying:'Auta i lůmŽ!" The night is passing!"

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    Default Re: Coronavirus is at my job

    Quote Originally Posted by Klorox View Post
    Wouldnít you worry though?

    Also, I didnít place this in my above post, but one of my kids is asthmatic (more susceptible) and my wife diabetic (more susceptible).

    Iím scared. I know people are blowing this off, but it really needs to be taken seriously.
    I'm not sure if this will help, but if you work in a hospital, you're already trained better than most at keeping your family safe.

    Everyday when you go to work you face some really nasty organisms on every/any surface there. You have already been trained how to protect yourself and the people around you.

    Remember the same principles you use to keep from cross infecting other patients, keep your wits, and you'll do fine.

    And if things get real bad, you'll remember why medicine is considered such a noble profession.
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    Default Re: Coronavirus is at my job

    @Klorox - I feel you. My mom is in her 70's and has asthma and my niece is immunocompromised due to a kidney transplant. I'm worried.

    Right now we just don't know how bad it is going to get. But there is still room for hope. Other countries have shown that testing, quarantines, and social distancing do work to slow and limit the spread - the "flatten the curve" concept. We can see this effect in China and South Korea. This is important because mortality rates are much lower with proper healthcare.

    This is a great article on the subject:
    https://medium.com/@tomaspueyo/coron...e-f4d3d9cd99ca

    I hope you and your family will be okay.

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    Default Re: Coronavirus is at my job

    Quote Originally Posted by mjasghar View Post
    Unfortunately people were too greedy for Chinese tourist spending to do what should have been done back around Chinese New Year and stop flights from China
    That's not right. It's not Chinese tourists spreading it, it is more people who visited China to do business there. Basically you could flip the entire statement and say people were too greedy for that shiny Chinese money and should not have gone there back around Chinese New Year and we should have stopped flights *to* China then.

    It is ignorant and useless to blame one group people for the spread of the virus when the entire human population is effectively migratory in this day and age. We are effectively all to blame for the spread.

    I know of more cases of people who caught covid-19 form being in the USA than of Chinese tourists spreading it here.
    Last edited by snowblizz; 2020-03-13 at 05:26 AM.

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    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: Coronavirus is at my job

    Quote Originally Posted by snowblizz View Post
    That's not right. It's not Chinese tourists spreading it, it is more people who visited China to do business there. Basically you could flip the entire statement and say people were too greedy for that shiny Chinese money and should not have gone there back around Chinese New Year and we should have stopped flights *to* China then.

    It is ignorant and useless to blame one group people for the spread of the virus when the entire human population is effectively migratory in this day and age. We are effectively all to blame for the spread.

    I know of more cases of people who caught covid-19 form being in the USA than of Chinese tourists spreading it here.
    Well said :thumbs up:

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    Default Re: Coronavirus is at my job

    Oh, and one thing that has bothered me from the OP I'm not sure I seen adressed.


    Klorox works at a hospital, surely that workplace is the *first* place to ask for advice and opinions? Doesn't said hospital have some kind of information scheme? Shouldn't staff be briefed about covid-19, what is know, what isn't, what not to worry about etc. etc. Most of us here can only give muggle opinions after all.

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    Default Re: Coronavirus is at my job

    Quote Originally Posted by snowblizz View Post
    Oh, and one thing that has bothered me from the OP I'm not sure I seen adressed.


    Klorox works at a hospital, surely that workplace is the *first* place to ask for advice and opinions? Doesn't said hospital have some kind of information scheme? Shouldn't staff be briefed about covid-19, what is know, what isn't, what not to worry about etc. etc. Most of us here can only give muggle opinions after all.
    Understandable to think so, but not necessarily. If in the US, your local and state health departments are a better and more authoritative source. As mentioned, the CDC also provides primary guidance and is the standard of reference for those LHDs.

    We (yes, I am at an LHD) urge sensible precautions and attentiveness to information from HHS, CDC and state/local HDs. The three absolute guidelines are (1) wash hands frequently, (2) avoid touching your face, (3) if sick, stay home. We are strongly urging medically fragile individuals (including the elderly) to avoid unnecessary contact with virtually everyone, and recommend all of our residents avoid unnecessary contact (no handshakes!!!).

    The unknowns in the denominator are making any estimates extremely difficult, but we're seeing likely projections of 3x-10x flu mortality rate for COVID-19. Similarly, likely projections are up to 80% will be asymptomatic or very mildly symptomatic.

    It will be bumpy for at least the next 6 weeks here. Buckle up, be reasonably smart, follow the three darn rules above (not just now, but always!!), and take care of each other!

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    Default Re: Coronavirus is at my job

    My daughter's school just announced it's closing for the next four weeks. (Two weeks at the governor's orders, week 4 was already scheduled for Spring Break, and I guess they figured there would be approximately zero learning happening if they opened for week 3). Apparently they're going to be doing distance learning for the duration.

    My elderly mother-in-law lives with us, so I'm actually pretty happy to have a good excuse to work from home for the next three weeks. I use public transit regularly (the subway I take services an international airport); so I've already been taking precautions not to touch anything on the way in.

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    Default Re: Coronavirus is at my job

    Quote Originally Posted by factotum View Post
    Sorry, that's plain wrong? The death rate from coronavirus is around 3% of infected people, while 'flu is maybe 0.1%. The only reason there are more deaths from 'flu than coronavirus so far is because there are a lot more cases of it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Maelstrom View Post
    If you consider 25 - 40 times more as 'very small, much less', then yes, you are in a world of your own (from your listed location).
    You are both correct, and my apologies for posting misinformation!!!
    That information came from my misremembering an interview with a former CDC employee who now works for Harvard. I watched it at he end on my 3rd 12 hour Night shift, and obviously did not hear what I thought I heard. My fault entirely.
    Thank you both very much for calling me out on that! I absolutely hate incorrect and incomplete medical information. I hate it even more when I'm the one who screws up!
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    Default Re: Coronavirus is at my job

    Originally Posted by Aedilred
    But at an individual level, even if you do catch it, which is not guaranteed, you're overwhelmingly likely to make a full recovery, and so is everyone you know and care about.
    I think this is the key point. Of course the situation should be taken seriously, but the mediaís breathless fearmongering doesnít help anyone.

    I was in the post office earlier today and overheard the employees talking about people in my area sending huge boxes of toilet paper to relatives in New York, which is apparently experiencing shortages. Panic buying of toilet paper doesnít help anyone either.

    In my state the entire K-12 system has just been shut down for the next two weeks. Hardly anyone is wearing breath masks, but the coveted N95s are selling out as soon as they arrive, never mind that health workers need them more.

    Also, yesterday someone tried to give me a ďleg shake,Ē which is apparently supposed to be like a handshake but involving shin contact. I just waved.

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    Dragon in the Playground Moderator
     
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    Default Re: Coronavirus is at my job

    Quote Originally Posted by Palanan View Post
    I think this is the key point. Of course the situation should be taken seriously, but the mediaís breathless fearmongering doesnít help anyone.
    Can you give me an example of such fearmongering?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    Your bread looks like a rotary phone.
    This right here, is some prime quality culinary critique.

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    Pixie in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Coronavirus is at my job

    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    Can you give me an example of such fearmongering?
    I feel that the internet in general is full of fearmongering, less so actual TV and radio stations, etc. Only a week ago there were heaps of unverified videos of of doors in China being welded shut, supposedly with Covid-19 sufferers within. Where else but media is most of the fear and panic generated by?
    Both WHO and the CDC have whole web-pages about "sharing facts, not fear" and "myth busting" regarding the virus. This in in direct response to bad reporting, false reporting , and fearmongering. I'm sure a quick search of Twitter and Facebook would find heaps.

    Here's a Daily Mail Aust article https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-sufferer.html (7th Feb) that I consider full of unverified information and inaccurate statistics. Focusing on unconfirmed video and news of police locking people in, or being attacked with cleavers, or people beating up possible sufferers is not constructive reporting of news. If its not confirmed or verified, you are just adding to the panic, and fear of the disease.
    The article gives what appear to be accurate figures for confirmed cases, and deaths. When they jump halfway through from 565 to 4500 deaths without noting that the later part of the article has to have been added at a much later date, then this is bad reporting. When reporting symptoms of Covid-19 they fail to mention breathing problems and make it sound like if you have cold/flu symptoms then you have Covid-19. Also bad reporting, which encourages fear and panic.

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    Dragon in the Playground Moderator
     
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    Default Re: Coronavirus is at my job

    Quote Originally Posted by Tarmor View Post
    I feel that the internet in general is full of fearmongering, less so actual TV and radio stations, etc. [snip]Where else but media is most of the fear and panic generated by?
    Access to the world wide web generally means access to numerous ways to quickly and easily assess whether a website is sensationalist or not. Classifying the entirety of the internet as "the media" is casting so broad of a net that any virtually assertion about the media can be made with some basis of support, regardless of how true said assertion may be.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    Your bread looks like a rotary phone.
    This right here, is some prime quality culinary critique.

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    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: Coronavirus is at my job

    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    Access to the world wide web generally means access to numerous ways to quickly and easily assess whether a website is sensationalist or not. Classifying the entirety of the internet as "the media" is casting so broad of a net that any virtually assertion about the media can be made with some basis of support, regardless of how true said assertion may be.
    Also, it's a borderline misleading use of the term. While the word "media" certainly is a broad term, pretty much anybody who frequently speaks English in the United States uses--or at the very least is aware of the commonplace use--of the term "the media" to refer specifically to certain entities with enough power and influence to produce or curate what reaches a wide audience. When it comes to content-producers on the internet, we probably won't ever reach a consensus on where to draw that line, but we mostly agree that there is some line somewhere. To pretend otherwise in order to use tabloids or minor blogs as "evidence" to support some assertion about national news networks is... misguided at best, and more likely disingenuous.

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    Default Re: Coronavirus is at my job

    The example Tarmor gave is from the Daily Mail - and if that's not an example of "the media" then what is?
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