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Thread: Baby deities?

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    Default Baby deities?

    What colour quidity would a theoretic god/goddess have if the parent deities where different patheons?

    I would assume 0% chance at a new colour, but they could they possibly have both parent colours?
    Or only one or the other?
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    Default Re: Baby deities?

    Quote Originally Posted by urbanwolf View Post
    What colour quidity would a theoretic god/goddess have if the parent deities where different patheons?

    I would assume 0% chance at a new colour, but they could they possibly have both parent colours?
    Or only one or the other?
    Remember, the color is just how we see their deific essence. Deities with different essences may not be able to procreate, which would make it moot.
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    It’s also possible they are incapable of having children and any family relation comes from mortal belief.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    Remember, the color is just how we see their deific essence. Deities with different essences may not be able to procreate, which would make it moot.
    Do we even know if the gods can procreate at all?
    The only reason why Loki is Hel's father might be because mortals believed so a few worlds back and that part stuck.

    Sure, Thor knocked up that fertility goddess, but who says that will result in a baby god?
    The children could be devas or archons, or maybe she just cycles through the stages of pregnancy without ever giving birth to a actual child.
    Horrifying thought that one...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    It’s also possible they are incapable of having children and any family relation comes from mortal belief.
    We saw that Thor got a unnamed fertility goddess pregnant.
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    Quote Originally Posted by urbanwolf View Post
    We saw that Thor got a unnamed fertility goddess pregnant.
    That might just be part of her nature as a fertility goddess.
    Like Hel's appearance reflecting her being a death goddesses.
    It doesn't mean other deities can get pregnant.
    Or that it will result in a child, especially a divine one, for that matter.
    Maybe it just means the next harvest in whatever corner of the world she's responsible for will be more bountiful than it would be otherwise.
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    Default Re: Baby deities?

    Quote Originally Posted by urbanwolf View Post
    What colour quidity would a theoretic god/goddess have if the parent deities where different patheons?

    I would assume 0% chance at a new colour, but they could they possibly have both parent colours?
    Or only one or the other?
    Now you have left me wondering if one of the Big Reveals for the last book will be that The Dark One is not really a new ascended God out of goblinoid belief, but the secret child of an Eastern Deity and a Southern one. Red+Blue = Purple.

    Yes I'm looking at you, Tiamat and Rat. Have you been playing naughty?

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    Default Re: Baby deities?

    my guess is that the new god would just have one of the two existing colours and not the other.

    My guess is that this happens in one of three ways:

    1. The baby is always of the Mother's pantheon with no exceptions, though it may bare some physical characteristics of it's father / father's pantheon, such as having four arms if one of the northern goddesses shacked up with that four-armed western god.

    2. The baby just has an outright 50/50 chance of being either pantheon, it's all due to randomness.

    or 3. Some unseen supernatural force such as fate or destiny preemptively decides, dictates, or discovers which pantheon the child belongs too and assigns it accordingly. With this in mind, it may even be possible for a western and a northern god to give birth to a southern god.


    It could theoretically also be a choice or in some way shaped by the child, they may grow up favoring or being more like one pantheon then another and thus gradually become a member of that pantheon over time. but i feel like in that case, the child would have had to been born mortal and ascend at a later time, as i doubt it's possible for even a child god to exist with no pantheon / quiddity.


    Re: Thor and the Fertility goddess: It's entirely possible the child won't be a god at all. She may give birth to a hero like Hercules or Achilles, or even a monster like a Cyclops or something. Gods have been known to birth mortals and monsters before.
    Last edited by Draconi Redfir; 2020-03-13 at 10:38 PM.
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    An inter-pantheon couple wouldn't work. First time they have an argument they'd create a snarl.
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    Default Re: Baby deities?

    Quote Originally Posted by urbanwolf View Post
    We saw that Thor got a unnamed fertility goddess pregnant.
    Oh, right. I forgot about that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Miel View Post
    An inter-pantheon couple wouldn't work. First time they have an argument they'd create a snarl.
    Good point.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Miel View Post
    An inter-pantheon couple wouldn't work. First time they have an argument they'd create a snarl.
    If they made a snarl it would only be a two colourd quitity snarl and easily handled. The four colours is what make the main snarl so dangerous.


    But I could see the Gods making a pact not to copulate around for safety.

    On the third hand a significantly powerful/famous mortal could be deified by multiple sources, and that could cause all sorts of problems.

    What if in the north Awesome McCoolperson is worshiped as a benevolent dictator who saved toe world, but the west sees them as an evil tyrant who conquered and destroyed. Both sides are pumping out belief causing split personality deity.
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    Quote Originally Posted by urbanwolf View Post
    If they made a snarl it would only be a two colourd quitity snarl and easily handled. The four colours is what make the main snarl so dangerous.
    Yes but it would have time to kill its ‘parents’ if two-coulured snarls weren’t a problem, Thor could pop up into the Dark One’s domain to explain the situation.


    What if in the north Awesome McCoolperson is worshiped as a benevolent dictator who saved toe world, but the west sees them as an evil tyrant who conquered and destroyed. Both sides are pumping out belief causing split personality deity.
    Ascension from mortal worship alone is so difficult that only TDO managed in however-many-worlds-it-has-been so the odds of single mortal managing that twice seem unlikely.

    Also I doubt being seen as an evil tyrant would grant deification on its own, as that does not grant dedication (ain’t nobody gonna devote themselves to someone they hate) but the belief that goes with that might color the resulting god to make them more hateful.

    Hey, wait a minute, maybe that happened to the Dark One!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Miel View Post
    An inter-pantheon couple wouldn't work. First time they have an argument they'd create a snarl.
    Only if they fought using the Strands of Reality, according to Shojo. I'm sure they could do shouting, melting each others' emissaries, and maybe even whacking the other with a hammer without causing snarls.
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    Quote Originally Posted by The MunchKING View Post
    Only if they fought using the Strands of Reality, according to Shojo. I'm sure they could do shouting, melting each others' emissaries, and maybe even whacking the other with a hammer without causing snarls.
    No, they could make snarls, that’s why Loki sent those emissaries, if they got into a disagreement they could make a new two-color snarl. Thor could whack Surtur with a hammer because he’s a Northern Demigod, and thus fighting and arguments won’t cause Snarls (or at least not ones they couldn’t just wave away).
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schroeswald View Post
    I recognize that Conservation of Detail is Overrated, but I find the event that I am using as evidence for my theory above important enough/given enough focus to qualify for what I call Elan’s Exception, “Who wastes perfectly good foreshadowing like that?”. Also I have never correctly predicted any event in any piece of media so take this theory with a grain of salt (I call this Peelee’s Ye Old Reminder).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Schroeswald View Post
    No, they could make snarls, that’s why Loki sent those emissaries, if they got into a disagreement they could make a new two-color snarl.
    Yeah, because Thor cant' trust him not to try to use the Strands. Where as in a normal argument, it doesn't just automatically MAKE a Snarl just because they are arguing.
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    Quote Originally Posted by The MunchKING View Post
    Yeah, because Thor cant' trust him not to try to use the Strands. Where as in a normal argument, it doesn't just automatically MAKE a Snarl just because they are arguing.
    That’s not at all what he’s saying though.
    Quote Originally Posted by Thor
    If I try to swing by his place to talk, the slightest disagreement could create a new two-color Snarl!
    Why would the strands be involved here? Here and in other parts of this scene he says that them fighting creates a Snarl, the threads of reality aren’t mentioned at all in the scene.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schroeswald View Post
    I recognize that Conservation of Detail is Overrated, but I find the event that I am using as evidence for my theory above important enough/given enough focus to qualify for what I call Elan’s Exception, “Who wastes perfectly good foreshadowing like that?”. Also I have never correctly predicted any event in any piece of media so take this theory with a grain of salt (I call this Peelee’s Ye Old Reminder).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Schroeswald View Post
    That’s not at all what he’s saying though.

    Why would the strands be involved here? Here and in other parts of this scene he says that them fighting creates a Snarl, the threads of reality aren’t mentioned at all in the scene.
    Because we've seen Gods argue, even get REALLY MAD without causing Snarls, even one color ones that are easily dismissed. Also to have a Snarl it would have to be a snarl OF something. You can't just snarl up words or something. You have to have thread to make the Snarl.

    The reason they leave off the "if he were to attack me with threads of reality" from explaining every time they talk about how a fight could make a Snarl is explained here. We the readers know about it, everyone involved knows about it, so it's a waste of time to reiterate it. Unless maybe it's going to be important to the plot later, which given that this whole thread is just speculation outside of the plot, I'm guessing it won't be.
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    Quote Originally Posted by The MunchKING View Post
    Because we've seen Gods argue, even get REALLY MAD without causing Snarls, even one color ones that are easily dismissed. Also to have a Snarl it would have to be a snarl OF something. You can't just snarl up words or something. You have to have thread to make the Snarl.

    The reason they leave off the "if he were to attack me with threads of reality" from explaining every time they talk about how a fight could make a Snarl is explained here. We the readers know about it, everyone involved knows about it, so it's a waste of time to reiterate it. Unless maybe it's going to be important to the plot later, which given that this whole thread is just speculation outside of the plot, I'm guessing it won't be.
    Those gods are of the same colour.
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    Quote Originally Posted by urbanwolf View Post
    Those gods are of the same colour.

    I KNOW. My point was what makes Thor arguing with Sutur or Hel different than arguing with say Tiamat? Why would two color arguments automatically make Snarls while one color ones don't? Schroeswald suggests that they make one-color snarl that the other could banish,


    Quote Originally Posted by Schroeswald View Post
    Thor could whack Surtur with a hammer because he’s a Northern Demigod, and thus fighting and arguments won’t cause Snarls (or at least not ones they couldn’t just wave away).
    (Emphasis mine)

    But we've seen that ordinary yelling and threatening, even if really mad didn't do that. So it must take something more. Thus if two deities from different pantheons were having a lover's spat, as long as they left to their respective realms before things got so heated they create a snarl, normal amounts of arguing and quarrelling should be fine (from Snarls at least).

    (Also we saw Thor attack the Dark One before the other three intervened, so again just fighting wasn't enough to magic Snarls into existence. He could attack the Dark One before the Dark One found out about the Threads and how to make Snarls.)
    Last edited by The MunchKING; 2020-03-14 at 12:36 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by The MunchKING View Post
    I KNOW. My point was what makes Thor arguing with Sutur or Hel different than arguing with say Tiamat? Why would two color arguments automatically make Snarls while one color ones don't? Schroeswald suggests that they make one-color snarl that the other could banish,
    Thor said that one-essence creations the gods can just waive away with but a thought.


    Quote Originally Posted by The MunchKING View Post
    (Emphasis mine)

    But we've seen that ordinary yelling and threatening, even if really mad didn't do that. So it must take something more. Thus if two deities from different pantheons were having a lover's spat, as long as they left to their respective realms before things got so heated they create a snarl, normal amounts of arguing and quarrelling should be fine (from Snarls at least).
    But how heated is too heated? The gods don't know, and the only way to find out would be to get into an argulent heated enough for a snarl to spawn, and it would immediately kill its creators, so the gods are being extremely careful. That's why the have the Godsmoots reather than meeting all at once.


    Quote Originally Posted by The MunchKING View Post
    (Also we saw Thor attack the Dark One before the other three intervened, so again just fighting wasn't enough to magic Snarls into existence. He could attack the Dark One before the Dark One found out about the Threads and how to make Snarls.)
    Per Word of God, the Dark One was out of godly magic at that pooint:
    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    I make no comment on the substance of the arguments here, but I just wanted to chime in and say that it was my intent to imply that in the crayon pages of Start of Darkness, the other gods were capable of unilaterally killing The Dark One only because he was newly ascended.

    He had used up all of his "worshipper juice" becoming a god, leaving him somewhat weak and with no experience using divine powers. After some of the other gods broke ranks to defend him, he took control of the goblinoids and established regular worship among them. So he's been building his power for a few centuries since then, and unlike other gods, he doesn't have to share his species' worship with several competing deities.

    Basically, that was their only shot to just gang up and kill him out of hand.
    So Thor probably figured hhe could kill him real quick without it being too dangerous. He clearly was too furious to think things through at that moment, anyway, else he would have noticed the purple aura.
    Last edited by Fyraltari; 2020-03-14 at 02:09 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Pilgrim View Post
    Now you have left me wondering if one of the Big Reveals for the last book will be that The Dark One is not really a new ascended God out of goblinoid belief, but the secret child of an Eastern Deity and a Southern one. Red+Blue = Purple.

    Yes I'm looking at you, Tiamat and Rat. Have you been playing naughty?
    (Emphasis mine).

    Psst, Tiamat is a Western God (red), not an Eastern God (Green).

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    Quote Originally Posted by urbanwolf View Post
    What colour quidity would a theoretic god/goddess have if the parent deities where different patheons?

    I would assume 0% chance at a new colour, but they could they possibly have both parent colours?
    Or only one or the other?
    I reckon 0% at a new colour, or Thor would have known this as a possibility and the gods would have at some point used this to fix the Snarl issue some time ago. Probably seal it via 5 colors. They've had (to our perception) nigh-infinite worlds to try solutions in, so I reckon they'd know if this could work.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JeenLeen View Post
    I reckon 0% at a new colour, or Thor would have known this as a possibility and the gods would have at some point used this to fix the Snarl issue some time ago. Probably seal it via 5 colors.
    They could do as many as 9!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    They could do as many as 9!
    Assuming new colors can't also combine to make even NEWWER colors!
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    Quote Originally Posted by The MunchKING View Post
    Assuming new colors can't also combine to make even NEWWER colors!
    New Color Desirable, Old Color Undesirable!

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    Quote Originally Posted by The MunchKING View Post
    Assuming new colors can't also combine to make even NEWWER colors!
    That is with new colors combining. I'm just assuming each color can only contribute uniquely. So Red and Blue make Purple, Red and Yellow make Orange, Blue and Yellow make Green.

    Then Purple and Yellow make Schmurple, Orange and Blue make Blorange, and Green and Red make Gred.

    So Red, Blue, Yellow, Purple, Orange, Green, Schmurple, Blorange, and Gred make 9.

    Dragons are not colorblind they have even more cones and see colors better YOU ARE THE ONE WHO CAN'T SEE COLORS RIGHT I SAY

    Graph theory is fun.
    Last edited by Peelee; 2020-03-21 at 11:44 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Pilgrim View Post
    Now you have left me wondering if one of the Big Reveals for the last book will be that The Dark One is not really a new ascended God out of goblinoid belief, but the secret child of an Eastern Deity and a Southern one. Red+Blue = Purple.

    Yes I'm looking at you, Tiamat and Rat. Have you been playing naughty?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    Dragons are not colorblind they have even more cones and see colors better YOU ARE THE ONE WHO CAN'T SEE COLORS RIGHT I SAY

    Graph theory is fun.
    To be fair, it's not "Yellow" and "Blue" you're mixing, it's "Quiddity we perceive as a yellow aura" and "quiddity we perceive as a blue aura" you're mixing together. There's no reason it would have to conform to our standard conception of color mixing, additive or subtractive, if it's possible to do at all.
    Last edited by RatElemental; 2020-03-22 at 01:46 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RatElemental View Post
    To be fair, it's not "Yellow" and "Blue" you're mixing, it's "Quiddity we perceive as a yellow aura" and "quiddity we perceive as a blue aura" you're mixing together. There's no reason it would have to conform to our standard conception of color mixing, additive or subtractive, if it's possible to do at all.
    It’s not even the quidditch that is perceived as colour. Thor explains that the auras are basically the Hawking radiations to their black hole of thoughts.

    We don’t know the exact relation between divine essence and the frequency of the radiation.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Draconi Redfir View Post
    Thor and the Fertility goddess: It's entirely possible the child won't be a god at all. She may give birth to a hero like Hercules or Achilles, or even a monster like a Cyclops or something. Gods have been known to birth mortals and monsters before.

    In old D&D days (Mystara, I miss you!), a son of a god was a mere mortal, and was neither favoured in reaching immortality. I suspect OOTSworld may be something similar, if only because it's a simpler solution.
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