# Thread: Battletech - A time of Total Warfare (Combo of A time of War and Total Warfare)

1. ## Re: Battletech - A time of Total Warfare (Combo of A time of War and Total Warfare)

Originally Posted by RandomLunatic
Optimizing existing traits doesn't count against your disadvantage limit, provided you only take it down to the next valid level. If you go more than one level down, then it counts as a bought disadvantage. As glass jaw only has one level, you're fine.
Er, okay. Thank you for responding, but you didn't answer my question. My question was "Do I have 200 more points to spend than I thought I did?" The math that I just showed is premised on the idea that shaving points through optimization, and adding additional disadvantages, are one and the same thing, and that I could not shave those additional points for glass jaw without accounting for them by correspondingly reducing my enemy point value by an equal amount. I'm trying to ask whether that assumption is correct, or whether I have 200 more points I could add by adding additional disadvantages.

Given that I could upgrade my Locust to a 6R Wolverine, with the right point distributions, this is not an idle consideration.

2. ## Re: Battletech - A time of Total Warfare (Combo of A time of War and Total Warfare)

Glass Jaw: -100
Enemy: -275
XP: 0

Optimization will push both of those down the the next level, which gives
Glass Jaw: -300
Enemy: -300
XP: -225 (200 from Glass Jaw, 25 from enemy)

But you haven't touched your allowable bought disadvantage yet. So if you want to buy your enemy up to -700, you'll be up to -625 XP you can spend freely, and still have another 100 XP you can buy from another trait if you so desire.

3. ## Re: Battletech - A time of Total Warfare (Combo of A time of War and Total Warfare)

Okey dokey. Thank you for letting me know. That makes a rather significant difference in my spreadsheet calculations, in ways that are definitely in my (and by extension, our) favor. It also explains a significant part of why I found that 5,000 XP hard limit so constricting.

Back to work on it, then.

4. ## Re: Battletech - A time of Total Warfare (Combo of A time of War and Total Warfare)

just as a side note this is what the current lance projection looks like

Karen Stuart Enforcer ENF-4R (50t)
Nikita 'Hawk' Lowel Guillotine GLT-3N (70t)
Xiofan Jicai Phoenix Hawk (45t)
McStabbington unknown Locust (20t) or 6R Wolverine (55t) *-> you might consider the wolverine

5. ## Re: Battletech - A time of Total Warfare (Combo of A time of War and Total Warfare)

The Enforcer is 50 tons.

6. ## Re: Battletech - A time of Total Warfare (Combo of A time of War and Total Warfare)

Originally Posted by RandomLunatic
The Enforcer is 50 tons.
nod probably a finger slip

7. ## Re: Battletech - A time of Total Warfare (Combo of A time of War and Total Warfare)

Well, just to give you some info to help your decision, Sam, as someone who usually plays Fed-Com, the Enforcer is a pretty trusty ride. It's a maneuverable little pillbox of a mech that can take a beating and keep right on chugging. Warhammers, both because they tend to attract a lot more attention and because their armor is comparatively lighter relative to their increased size, in my experience actually go down faster than Enforcers do. Plus, if our entire unit was jump-capable, that would make us an extremely maneuverable combat lance.

The downside is that a Warhammer would bring some sorely needed firepower to the unit. For a main battle lance; we're a bit undergunned at the moment, particularly at range and even with the upgrade to the Wolverine. Fortunately, there are some decent mods that can be done to improve things long-term for the Wolverine (at the first opportunity, I typically swap the Whirlwind for a PPC, medium laser and heat sink; since that equipment takes up the same amount of weight and critical hit space, there's no risk of unbalancing the mech with the modification), but until I have the salvage and can clear it with the unit commander, we've got what we've got. And given that most of our mechs are rugged little scrappers that emphasize durability over firepower, we're a bit light on one-hit knockout power. at the moment. An Enforcer can help in that regard, but only until it runs out of ammunition. A Warhammer would give us far more punching power, I have to say. And in most configurations, I'd have to guess that the Warhammer would bag us the majority of our kills.

Obviously, it's your choice on the mech. Just giving you some information to shape your opinion.

8. ## Re: Battletech - A time of Total Warfare (Combo of A time of War and Total Warfare)

Originally Posted by McStabbington
Well, just to give you some info to help your decision, Sam, as someone who usually plays Fed-Com, the Enforcer is a pretty trusty ride. It's a maneuverable little pillbox of a mech that can take a beating and keep right on chugging. Warhammers, both because they tend to attract a lot more attention and because their armor is comparatively lighter relative to their increased size, in my experience actually go down faster than Enforcers do. Plus, if our entire unit was jump-capable, that would make us an extremely maneuverable combat lance.

The downside is that a Warhammer would bring some sorely needed firepower to the unit. For a main battle lance; we're a bit undergunned at the moment, particularly at range and even with the upgrade to the Wolverine. Fortunately, there are some decent mods that can be done to improve things long-term for the Wolverine (at the first opportunity, I typically swap the Whirlwind for a PPC, medium laser and heat sink; since that equipment takes up the same amount of weight and critical hit space, there's no risk of unbalancing the mech with the modification), but until I have the salvage and can clear it with the unit commander, we've got what we've got. And given that most of our mechs are rugged little scrappers that emphasize durability over firepower, we're a bit light on one-hit knockout power. at the moment. An Enforcer can help in that regard, but only until it runs out of ammunition. A Warhammer would give us far more punching power, I have to say. And in most configurations, I'd have to guess that the Warhammer would bag us the majority of our kills.

Obviously, it's your choice on the mech. Just giving you some information to shape your opinion.
Do remember that the Warhammer is a massive walking Heatbloom and can rarely manage to fire all it weapons in one go without overheating into Shutdown 4+ territory.

Oh and from what I saw above, our Lance would be a solid Medium Weight Class Lance with a Heavy, two Mediums and a Light Mech.

9. ## Re: Battletech - A time of Total Warfare (Combo of A time of War and Total Warfare)

Well, that's why SOP with the 'Hammer is a slow advance, using the PPCs to open up holes at range before closing in and swapping out 1 PPC for the small stuff for the kill. The mediums and SRM together equal 10 heat just like the PPC.

Also, the Whammy's upper body armor is pretty good. It's the legs that are weak. As long as you utilize partial cover where you can and don't get into kicking matches with other heavies, your durability is fine.

Of course there is a lot to be said for an all-jumping lance.

10. ## Re: Battletech - A time of Total Warfare (Combo of A time of War and Total Warfare)

well it is not your standard warhammer, it was modified. still on alpha strike has heat issues for certain, but can go a few rounds main guns firing before worrying to much about overheat. and has decent jump ability to boot

11. ## Re: Battletech - A time of Total Warfare (Combo of A time of War and Total Warfare)

What variant is this? I've never seen it before. Probably because it's terrible.

12. ## Re: Battletech - A time of Total Warfare (Combo of A time of War and Total Warfare)

Originally Posted by samduke
well it is not your standard warhammer, it was modified. still on alpha strike has heat issues for certain, but can go a few rounds main guns firing before worrying to much about overheat. and has decent jump ability to boot
Spoiler: warhammer

Warhammer

Internal Structure 7
Engine 280 Fusion XL 8
Walking MP 4 Cruising Speed: 43 kph
Running MP 6 Maximum Speed: 65 kph
Jumping MP 4 Jump Capacity: 120 meters
Heat Sinks [28] 18
Gyro 3
Small Cockpit 2
Ferro-Fiberous Armor Factors 179 [9.0 tons]
location Internal Armor
Structure Value
Center Torso 22 25
Center Torso (rear) 9
L/R Torso 15/15 20/20
L/R Torso (rear) 8/8
L/R Arms 11/11 20/20
L/R Legs 15/15 20/20
Right Arm Actuators: Shoulder, Upper Arm, Lower Arm
Left Arm Actuators: Shoulder, Upper Arm, Lower Arm
Heat: 39 / 28

Weapons and Ammo Location Critical Heat Tonnage Range Damage
ER PPC LA 3 15 7.0 23 10
Heat Sinks LA 5 - 5.0
ER PPC RA 3 15 7.0 23 10
Heat Sinks RA 5 - 5.0
SRM 6 RT 2 4 3.0 9 4-12
SRM 6 Ammo (15) RT 1 - 1.0
Heat Sink RT 6 - 2.0
Medium Laser H 1 3 1.0 9 5
Heat Sink H 1 - 1.0
1 Jump Jet RT 1 - 1.0
1 Jump Jet LT 1 - 1.0
2 Jump Jets CT 2 - 2.0
Heat Sinks LL 2 - 2.0
Heat Sinks RL 2 - 2.0
Heat Sinks LT 2 - 2.0
what's the Variant name? Like with my Guillotine it's a GLT-3N, and there's also the GLT-4L, 4P, 5M, etc. etc. So what Warhammer model did you specifically roll?

13. ## Re: Battletech - A time of Total Warfare (Combo of A time of War and Total Warfare)

With a small cockpit, it's probably some Jihad variant that shouldn't be on the 3039 table. But why would a Jihad 'Mech be using coolers?

14. ## Re: Battletech - A time of Total Warfare (Combo of A time of War and Total Warfare)

Originally Posted by RandomLunatic
With a small cockpit, it's probably some Jihad variant that shouldn't be on the 3039 table. But why would a Jihad 'Mech be using coolers?
and fero-fibrous Armor plating, Double Heatsinks Galore, etc.

15. ## Re: Battletech - A time of Total Warfare (Combo of A time of War and Total Warfare)

It uses singles though. Which is the biggest reason it sucks, and what confuses me. Virtually nothing uses singles anymore by the 3070s.

16. ## Re: Battletech - A time of Total Warfare (Combo of A time of War and Total Warfare)

Originally Posted by Hemnon
what's the Variant name? Like with my Guillotine it's a GLT-3N, and there's also the GLT-4L, 4P, 5M, etc. etc. So what Warhammer model did you specifically roll?
It was rolled as a 6R (keeping the same roll number as the previous Enforcer), but she wanted a custom-modded one. I'm not sure where this specific version came from, though. The one that I thought I had cleared did have the DHS and ERPPCs (with the understanding that critical damage to the machine would be more difficult to replace), but not the other post-Intro-tech. I had other Warhammer suggestions (I like the 6D, or even a "perfected" 6R that uses 15 DHS and a half-ton of MG ammo to bump the armor by 3.5 tons), but she wanted the jump jets and ERPPCs.

17. ## Re: Battletech - A time of Total Warfare (Combo of A time of War and Total Warfare)

Originally Posted by Mando Knight
It was rolled as a 6R (keeping the same roll number as the previous Enforcer), but she wanted a custom-modded one. I'm not sure where this specific version came from, though. The one that I thought I had cleared did have the DHS and ERPPCs (with the understanding that critical damage to the machine would be more difficult to replace), but not the other post-Intro-tech. I had other Warhammer suggestions (I like the 6D, or even a "perfected" 6R that uses 15 DHS and a half-ton of MG ammo to bump the armor by 3.5 tons), but she wanted the jump jets and ERPPCs.
Ahh.... doesn't that take like 5 or 6 or some such in Custom Vehicle to even be allowed to make your own mech? Just curious here.

Also won't ER PPCs (well anything ER basically) first be a thing after the clans attack?
From what I recall it's not until the late 3050s that ER weaponry was sufficiently researched to be created for mech-production (unless someone went Frankenmech with Clan-salvaged Tech of course). Yes the ER PPC was available in use and production since the year 3039 in the Draconis Combine at least.
I am just being curious and I wouldn't mind have a custom-fit Franken-hammer in the Lance at all. Just curious what'd cost in terms of Trait points to even get that sort of mech. and what kind of expenses it'd be to keep it functioning and repaired.

18. ## Re: Battletech - A time of Total Warfare (Combo of A time of War and Total Warfare)

According to Sarna, the Combine brought back the ER PPC in 3037, probably from their deal with ComStar. Doubles were ready for serial production in 3041 but probably tough to source for mercs. ER PPCs and singles only end in tears, just ask the PNT-10K or the JA-KL-1532.

If I wanted a mercenary jumping 'Hammer, I'd come back with something like this. The DHS are all in the engine and indestructible as long as the engine survives. Everything else is replacable off-the-shelf components. The flamer can be traded for another ML if you don't care about anti-infantry.

Type: WHM-6D+ Warhammer
Technology Base: Inner Sphere / 3075
Ruleset: Standard (5th edition)
Tonnage: 70
Cost: 6,679,583 C-bills
Battle Value: 1,413
Equipment Mass
Internal Structure: Standard 7.0
Engine: 280 16.0
Type: Fusion
Walking MP: 4
Running MP: 6
Jumping MP: 4
Heat Sinks: 10 [20] 0.0
Gyro: Standard 3.0
Cockpit: 3.0
Armor Factor: 216 13.5
Internal
Structure Armor
Value
Center Torso 22 33
Center Torso (rear) 10
L/R Torso 15/15 22/22
L/R Torso (rear) 8/8
L/R Arms 11/11 22/22
L/R Legs 15/15 30/30
Weapons and Ammo Location Crits Tons
Medium Laser LT 1 1.0
Medium Laser LT 1 1.0
Medium Laser RT 1 1.0
Medium Laser RT 1 1.0
PPC LA 3 7.0
PPC RA 3 7.0
Flamer LT 1 1.0
SRM 6 RT 2 3.0
CASE RT 1 0.5
Ammo (SRM 6) 15 RT 1 1.0

BattleForce 2
MP Damage PB/M/L Overheat Class
4J 5/5/2 3 H
Armor/Structure Point Value Specials
5/5 15 -

19. ## Re: Battletech - A time of Total Warfare (Combo of A time of War and Total Warfare)

The amount of customization on that 'hammer is something between Sam and the GM. My only concern as CO is that resupply of some of that advanced tech might prove difficult for a small mercenary outfit like ours. If that engine gets wrecked, we may not be able to afford a replacement. Obviously, I'll do my best to keep parts available so your machine stays in working order, and if worst comes to worst, I'll try to get you salvage of a comparably-priced design, so you don't lose everything.

Beyond that, if we're all jump jet-capable, that does open us up for lot of special missions like orbital insertions.

ETA: Just as an aside, double heat sinks were actually the first SLDF lostech recovered, and predate the Helm Cache discovery. Prototype BJ-3 Blackjack models fought the Death Commandos on Kathil, and the BJ-3 has integrally-mounted double heat sinks. By this point, they should be pretty common, and the problem isn't finding them.

The problem is mainly that engines have hard-mounted double heat sinks or regular heat sinks; to swap them means either replacing, or at least completely overhauling, the engine for your mech. Traditionally, when I've played merc campaigns, we always played it that the only way to do it was to salvage an engine from an equivalently-sized mech that had double heat sinks, and then replace the heat sinks on the mech as needed after figuring out whether you've unbalanced the machine. I suppose complete overhauls are possible, but we always figured that the repair and replacement times made that prohibitive. We just had better things for our techs to do for months than completely disassemble an engine and rebuild it with freezers.

I should have a draft version of my character within 24 hours.

20. ## Re: Battletech - A time of Total Warfare (Combo of A time of War and Total Warfare)

EDITED (1d1000)[55] a EDITED

21. ## Re: Battletech - A time of Total Warfare (Combo of A time of War and Total Warfare)

The only time I've seen a 'Mech take crits to every single engine slot is when it gets cored out. In fairness, we stop rolling after the third because we're usually playing one-shots and don't care once the 'Mech is out of commission. A cored-out 'Mech is only good for parts, so I'm not worried about losing the powerplant.

You do know drop packs are availble for non-jumping 'Mechs to make assault drops, right?

22. ## Re: Battletech - A time of Total Warfare (Combo of A time of War and Total Warfare)

just forget it - keep the enforcer and move on

23. ## Re: Battletech - A time of Total Warfare (Combo of A time of War and Total Warfare)

Originally Posted by RandomLunatic
The only time I've seen a 'Mech take crits to every single engine slot is when it gets cored out. In fairness, we stop rolling after the third because we're usually playing one-shots and don't care once the 'Mech is out of commission. A cored-out 'Mech is only good for parts, so I'm not worried about losing the powerplant.

You do know drop packs are availble for non-jumping 'Mechs to make assault drops, right?
Very true, but if we have integrally-mounted jump jets, we don't have to pay for those disposable drop packs.

And Sam, just remember that it's your call on what you want. This is supposed to be fun for everyone, and as someone who loved to tinker with mech designing in my youth, I get the impulse.

I'm just signing on as the guy who grumbles about the paperwork, so I'm just doing my job.

24. ## Re: Battletech - A time of Total Warfare (Combo of A time of War and Total Warfare)

Originally Posted by McStabbington
And Sam, just remember that it's your call on what you want. This is supposed to be fun for everyone, .
well its hard to have fun with an idea get told hey custom vehicle you can do this, and then basicly get verbal bashing for doing it... not fun

MANDO I have the worksheet if you want to discuss it PM wise

otherrwise the enforcer is done page 1 or 2..

25. ## Re: Battletech - A time of Total Warfare (Combo of A time of War and Total Warfare)

Originally Posted by RandomLunatic
The only time I've seen a 'Mech take crits to every single engine slot is when it gets cored out. In fairness, we stop rolling after the third because we're usually playing one-shots and don't care once the 'Mech is out of commission. A cored-out 'Mech is only good for parts, so I'm not worried about losing the powerplant.

You do know drop packs are availble for non-jumping 'Mechs to make assault drops, right?
which is lorewise technically wrong since side-torsos, legs, arms and head should still remain intact unless 3 engine core hits have happened and you roll a... I think it's a 10+ on 2d6. At least statistically. Cuz a mech Fusion Core is not a highly unstable item.... that's why the mech auto shuts down on 30+ heat because critical limits have been reached and auto-systems shuts the fusion core down to protect the pilot and the surroundings from a massive explosion.

26. ## Re: Battletech - A time of Total Warfare (Combo of A time of War and Total Warfare)

Originally Posted by samduke
well its hard to have fun with an idea get told hey custom vehicle you can do this, and then basicly get verbal bashing for doing it... not fun

MANDO I have the worksheet if you want to discuss it PM wise

otherrwise the enforcer is done page 1 or 2..
Ah yeah sorry, I didn't mind to be bashing you if you were referring to me. As I've stated prior English is not my primary Language.
I was also merely curious how getting the mech to fit the timeline would work and such. If it's a mech you wanna run with - Do so! I am just a heavy-details nerd, so do not mind me if it sounds a little like I'm questioning your choices. Just a curious person by nature.

27. ## Re: Battletech - A time of Total Warfare (Combo of A time of War and Total Warfare)

Originally Posted by samduke
well its hard to have fun with an idea get told hey custom vehicle you can do this, and then basicly get verbal bashing for doing it... not fun

MANDO I have the worksheet if you want to discuss it PM wise

otherrwise the enforcer is done page 1 or 2..
You're absolutely right. Your mech design is between you and the GM. If you want to push for a customized Warhammer, I'll stand behind you, grumbling about the paperwork, the whole way.

And of course if you want to talk mech lab shop, I'm always game.

28. ## Re: Battletech - A time of Total Warfare (Combo of A time of War and Total Warfare)

I just figured a goal for my character, to potentially get a hold of a Refit Kit later for her Guillotine to have it upgraded to a GLT-5M. It's not until 3049 that the Variant becomes available tho.
It uses a little more endosteel to lower the overall weight so the Large Laser can be upgraded to an ER Large Laser, from what I can see in differences between the two models' Record Sheets.

29. ## Re: Battletech - A time of Total Warfare (Combo of A time of War and Total Warfare)

Originally Posted by samduke
well its hard to have fun with an idea get told hey custom vehicle you can do this, and then basicly get verbal bashing for doing it... not fun

MANDO I have the worksheet if you want to discuss it PM wise

otherrwise the enforcer is done page 1 or 2..
My apologies, I didn't mean to bash. Obviously, whatever Mando says ultimately goes. I just love some 'Mech design talk.

Originally Posted by Hemnon
I just figured a goal for my character, to potentially get a hold of a Refit Kit later for her Guillotine to have it upgraded to a GLT-5M. It's not until 3049 that the Variant becomes available tho.
It uses a little more endosteel to lower the overall weight so the Large Laser can be upgraded to an ER Large Laser, from what I can see in differences between the two models' Record Sheets.
Endo Steel is an either/or thing. ER weapons have the same tonnage and crit requirements as their normal variants, they just generate more heat. All you have to do is procure the ERLL to make the upgrade.

30. ## Re: Battletech - A time of Total Warfare (Combo of A time of War and Total Warfare)

Originally Posted by RandomLunatic
My apologies, I didn't mean to bash. Obviously, whatever Mando says ultimately goes. I just love some 'Mech design talk.

Endo Steel is an either/or thing. ER weapons have the same tonnage and crit requirements as their normal variants, they just generate more heat. All you have to do is procure the ERLL to make the upgrade.
Ahh... well the most of actual Battletech I've played was Hairbrained's game and with a nice Roguetech modding. So still a little raw on the deal.

In that case, it's just a full upgrade of the weapon.
And I guess so, yeah.... I guess my character might be one of the first people to help ensure the next standarized variant of the Guillotine would be with the ER Large Laser... like an original Pioneer? Or at least, since we are like a year or two from the Variant being officially release, a little bit of ComStar Connections info might have given some clue on good potential upgrade ideas.
Still, a PPC is technically better than an ER PPC, overall-speaking since it's less heat, more damage, etc... however I am fairly certain a PPC's weight much higher.

Still, purchasing one is firstly HARD cuz the availability is rating of F (or just pre-clan invasion it'd be an E) with a tech rating of E.... and then it's 200k C-bills for the weapon itself. At least according to Sarna.

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