OOTS #1195 - The Discussion Thread

[The Giant]

New comic is up.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

"How to be an atheist when Gods are provably real". I love it.

Rich, when this is all over, I really encourage you to give Discworld a try. It is remarkable how much your humour and conclusions fit with Pratchett's. I think you will enjoy him.

(But as Eddings correctly pointed out, you probably want to wait until it won't colour your own work. More so's the pity).

Grey Wolf

[Resileaf]

The uncertainty of the future remains intact. Will beating Xykon first truly work to convince Redcloak to listen? Or will it just suit Redcloak's needs?

Remember to wash your hands after reading the comic.

[AstralFire]

I like her reaction to his surprise that she wanted to help. It's nice to get a little more depth to her character.

I don't get the feeling Roy will end up doing that negotiating from strength thing though. Seems all too much things-going-right for this bunch.

[knag]

Yeah I'm going to go with "never question the authority of those who created you" with my children. That's some rookie parenting, Eugene.

[Airinyourtires]

What if they use Julia’s modified Sending spell to contact Redcloak?

I have no idea why I’m putting this here, as opposed to when she first explained it, but here it is.

[Jaxzan Proditor]

First of all, of course Eugene would think that the gods are just powerful wizards. Wonder if that popped up in any of his interviews. But, Roy is right that the overall message is probably a good one.

It’s been fun seeing Julia and how her character has changed in the year (in comic) ans years (out of comic) since we’ve seen her. Clearly she has some interesting ideas. I wonder what will be coming up next.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

What if they use Julia’s modified Sending spell to contact Redcloak?

Unless RedCloak is a blood relative of hers with an outstanding Blood Oath (and all signs point to "no and no"), that won't work. And the pipeline dream that that is a thing that can be fixed is the kind of dead end that many university projects run into, so I wouldn't be confident that that will be done in time.

Grey Wolf

[lenon3579]

The gods are just fancy alien wizards who managed to crowdsource their magic.

Actually the best ever definition of what the gods are.

[Grey Watcher]

Roy's last line is awesome. Prime example of why I love this comic.

[Resileaf]

Unless RedCloak is a blood relative of hers with an outstanding Blood Oath (and all signs point to "no and no"), that won't work. And the pipeline dream that that is a thing that can be fixed is the kind of dead end that many university projects run into, so I wouldn't be confident that that will be done in time.

Grey Wolf

Ah-ha! The mystery is finally resolved!

Julia is Redcloak's niece!

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Ah-ha! The mystery is finally resolved!

Julia is Redcloak's niece!

Oh, Thor. I walked right into that one, didn't I?

Grey Wolf

[Peelee]

This strip cements Roy as my favorite character. I love how he's moved from being a smart-ass and always trying to be clever into someone who is actively trying to be a better person and actually relate to people genuinely. It mirrors my own similar journey along that path, in a way (at least, I hope I'm still on that path).

[Schroeswald]

"How to be an atheist when Gods are provably real". I love it.

Rich, when this is all over, I really encourage you to give Discworld a try. It is remarkable how much your humour and conclusions fit with Pratchett's. I think you will enjoy him.

(But as Eddings correctly pointed out, you probably want to wait until it won't colour your own work. More so's the pity).

Grey Wolf

I believe there is a quote somewhere around here (Summon Banana III!) where the Giant says something to that affect.

[Elenna]

Ah-ha! The mystery is finally resolved!

Julia is Redcloak's niece!

Darn it, I was beaten to the joke!

[Fyraltari]

"How to be an atheist when Gods are provably real". I love it.

Apatheism* ("not caring about gods") would probably be a better description. The Greenhiults don't question the existence of the gods. In OOTS-world (and other worlds where gods are demonstrably a thing), atheists would be the equivalent of rea-world flat earthers.

*or maltheism if they came to the conclusion that the gods are bad people.

Rich, when this is all over, I really encourage you to give Discworld a try. It is remarkable how much your humour and conclusions fit with Pratchett's. I think you will enjoy him.

(But as Eddings correctly pointed out, you probably want to wait until it won't colour your own work. More so's the pity).

Grey Wolf

Seconded.

The uncertainty of the future remains intact. Will beating Xykon first truly work to convince Redcloak to listen? Or will it just suit Redcloak's needs?

It will definitely trigger a mental breakdown as the realization that

Spoiler: SOD

Show

he killed his brother for nothing

sinks in. Wether that would make him fly into a mindless rage or be the shock he needs to get out of his funk, I don't know.

I like her reaction to his surprise that she wanted to help. It's nice to get a little more depth to her character.

I don't get the feeling Roy will end up doing that negotiating from strength thing though. Seems all too much things-going-right for this bunch.

Yeah, my money is on "Xykon is the final boss".

What if they use Julia’s modified Sending spell to contact Redcloak?

I have no idea why I’m putting this here, as opposed to when she first explained it, but here it is.

Only works on people bound by the same Blood Oath

First of all, of course Eugene would think that the gods are just powerful wizards. Wonder if that popped up in any of his interviews. But, Roy is right that the overall message is probably a good one.

Well, he's not exactly wrong. It's basically Clarke's third law but with magic. Nothing about the god's powers means their morals are superior to the mortals. I mean: Hel is a goddess. Especially since they're not in charge of the Cosmic Law, Good, Chaos and Evil.

[Windscion]

Well crap, now I'm wondering if Redcloak's niece is the mysterious ally. I guess I'll have to go read the damn thread.

[Schroeswald]

Yeah, my money is on "Xykon is the final boss".

I definitely think that the main plot (not the wrap-up which will take like a year) will all lead up to the seventh panel of strip 13.

[Zhorn]

I just love these small backstory insights into what built the character into the people they grew up to be. Yes I know some of this was written after the fact, but it is all internally consistent, and that makes me happy.

[Mox]

"How to be an atheist when Gods are provably real". I love it.

Rich, when this is all over, I really encourage you to give Discworld a try. It is remarkable how much your humour and conclusions fit with Pratchett's. I think you will enjoy him.

(But as Eddings correctly pointed out, you probably want to wait until it won't colour your own work. More so's the pity).

Grey Wolf

I just want to add that everyone should read discworld.
No need to be obsessed with getting it in english; because assuming all translation are on the same level as the french one, they're all fantastic.

(wait, how many grammar mistakes did I make ?)

[Peelee]

I think you will enjoy [Pratchett].

Grey Wolf

From what I've heard, I think that advice can be given to everybody.

(wait, how many grammar mistakes did I make ?)

Don't worry about it; your English is better than my French.

[b_jonas]

Unless RedCloak is a blood relative of hers with an outstanding Blood Oath (and all signs point to "no and no"), that won't work.

If Xykon were destroyed, Redcloak would inherit the badass magical crown that started the blood oath, the one tained by Xykon's evil alignment. It actually wouldn't be too surprising if Julia could extend the spell to talk to whoever has the crown. She could wake up Redcloak with obnoxious and annoying messages every time he tries to sleep, so that he can never regain his cleric spells.

But of course, the hard parts of the task are still (1) Roy destroying Xykon and (2) the other gods convincing The Dark One, who has a legitimate grievance against them. Compare to those, I think defeating Redcloak should be easy.

[RatedArgh]

Favorite Pratchet line:
Build a man a fire and you keep him warm for a night, but set a man on fire and you keep him warm the rest of his life.

Also, love the character growth we’re getting. Great job, Giant!

[JumboWheat01]

Ya know, one of these days, I really need to use "alien wizards who figured out how to crowdsource their magic" in something.

[Giggling Ghast]

‪Yeah, I’be long felt that the Order would have to take down Xykon to any kind of peaceful solution. Why would he give a {scrubbed} if the Snarl is contained or not? It might even be beneficial to him, since being destroyed by the Snarl means avoiding eternal damnation.

Right-Eye was right when he said that goblins would never be free until Xykon was destroyed.

[Fyraltari]

From what I've heard, I think that advice can be given to everybody.

Yup. I learned yesterday that dit Terry was involved in the writing for a The Elder Scrolls: Oblivion mod which makes it very tempting for me to start that game again with that mod.

Don't worry about it; your English is better that my French.

Allons, mon bon dragon, pourquoi s’en faire pour une simple langue ? Tu te rattrapes par tant de côtés.

If Xykon were destroyed, Redcloak would inherit the badass magical crown that started the blood oath, the one tained by Xykon's evil alignment. It actually wouldn't be too surprising if Julia could extend the spell to talk to whoever has the crown. She could wake up Redcloak with obnoxious and annoying messages every time he tries to sleep, so that he can never regain his cleric spells.

But of course, the hard parts of the task are still (1) Roy destroying Xykon and (2) the other gods convincing The Dark One, who has a legitimate grievance against them. Compare to those, I think defeating Redcloak should be easy.

What would Redcloak want with the crown? It does not have any magical power. Also Eugene’s oath did not mention the crown once.

[Hekko]

The uncertainty of the future remains intact. Will beating Xykon first truly work to convince Redcloak to listen? Or will it just suit Redcloak's needs?

I don't think Roy and Julia realise that Redcloak has his own agenda and Xykon is just the monkey on whose back he travels to meet his goals. Although being capable of destroying Xykon while containing Redcloak (that would include showing enough strenght to capture him, but not seriously harm him) might by the OotS some time to squeeze in negotiations.

What if they use Julia’s modified Sending spell to contact Redcloak?

Provided she finishes her project overnight. Wouldn't be the first student to do that. Wouldn't be the first to fail to finish.

Unless RedCloak is a blood relative of hers with an outstanding Blood Oath (and all signs point to "no and no"), that won't work. And the pipeline dream that that is a thing that can be fixed is the kind of dead end that many university projects run into, so I wouldn't be confident that that will be done in time.

Grey Wolf

Aren't they all Redcloak's nieces?

[RatedArgh]

She could wake up Redcloak with obnoxious and annoying messages every time he tries to sleep, so that he can never regain his cleric spells.

I love using little mechanics to big effects like this. I once played in a campaign where the big bad communicated with his army using Quaal’s feather tokens. I stocked up on them, spent a bunch of spell slots to write “I prepared explosive ruins today” on a bunch of scrolls and sent them to all his generals via the tokens which deliver a written message without fail.

[Grey Watcher]

This strip cements Roy as my favorite character. I love how he's moved from being a smart-ass and always trying to be clever into someone who is actively trying to be a better person and actually relate to people genuinely. It mirrors my own similar journey along that path, in a way (at least, I hope I'm still on that path).

One thing Roy inherited from his father (and that he's apparently done a lot of work to overcome) is an unshakable belief that he's the smartest person in any given room and a need to make sure everyone knows it. Really glad he's made a fair bit of progress on that front.

Apatheism* ("not caring about gods")

I love this term for this idea, by the way.

It will definitely trigger a mental breakdown as the realization that

Spoiler: SOD

Show

he killed his brother for nothing

sinks in. Wether that would make him fly into a mindless rage or be the shock he needs to get out of his funk, I don't know.

Yeah, my money is on "Xykon is the final boss".

Spoiler: Start of Darkness

Show

Well, this all probably interacts with the fact that Xykon left some sort of Contingent Suggestion spell or something on the MITD to eat Redcloak and spit out the phylactery if he betrays Xykon. I suppose it's possible that the spell will persist after Xykon is destroyed, but I'm not sure.
(Also, as an aside, there's a solid chance that's also going to be MITD's reveal scene.)

Only works on people bound by the same Blood Oath

Well, if we're going with the whole Redcloak's Niece gag, might as well assume that adopted descendants count as much as blood-related ones, despite the name. Makes about as much sense as assuming that Eugene is a thoroughly neglectful and disinterested parent who also was able to diligently maintain an illusion over his daughter for over a decade, including the past 3 years in which he's been dead.

Well, he's not exactly wrong. It's basically Clarke's third law but with magic. Nothing about the god's powers means their morals are superior to the mortals. I mean: Hel is a goddess. Especially since they're not in charge of the Cosmic Law, Good, Chaos and Evil.

"Any sufficiently advanced wizardry is indistinguishable from godhood."

Well crap, now I'm wondering if Redcloak's niece is the mysterious ally. I guess I'll have to go read the damn thread.

Redcloak's niece is all things to all people.

[DaOldeWolf]

Who would have though we would get some emptipnal moments between Roy and his sister?

The giant knows how to make good body language work despite limitations due to the chosen appearance of the comic.