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  1. - Top - End - #61
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    Default Re: OOTS #1195 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by JumboWheat01 View Post
    Or he may still be partly hungover and is trying to keep calm to keep the pain down.
    Or perhaps it's a long-term effect of having had his first exposure to really good beer.

  2. - Top - End - #62
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    Default Re: OOTS #1195 - The Discussion Thread

    I can think of more things Eugene has done that have backfired on him more than not.

    Yeah, this is a logistics conversation I'm glad they're having, even if it's mostly just processing information we already have.

    "Good Alignment Gods" does not mean "on our side". Redcloak is gonna be a pain to negotiate with, but killing Xykon is a pretty good start-if you can pull it off when Redcloak is supporting.

  3. - Top - End - #63
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    Default Re: OOTS #1195 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Psychronia View Post
    I can think of more things Eugene has done that have backfired on him more than not.
    New theory: Eric died when Eugene was trying to research a new spell, Backfire Shield.
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  4. - Top - End - #64
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    Default Re: OOTS #1195 - The Discussion Thread

    "fancy alien wizards"

    i love it.
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  5. - Top - End - #65
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    Default Re: OOTS #1195 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Finagle View Post
    He doesn't have the full story that Durkon got. He's not aware that all of Creation is in peril. It's the Dunning-Krueger effect in action. He's too incompetent on this issue to even be aware that he's incompetent. The gods have bigger fish to fry, like finding a way to put a stop to the Snarl forever. His anti-authoritarianism is misplaced, though I get the idea that's his Daddy issues talking. He's willing to screw over everyone so that he can accomplish his short-term objectives. Oh well, it's not the first time he's strayed from the path. We can only hope that he finds the way back before the end.
    I would argue the opposite. Roy is clearly recognizing that he does not understand the full picture. He is making a calculated decision that he must act in a way that is within his realm of competence towards an apparently achievable goal: save everyone person living on this world from a sudden death. Such is not in opposition to Thor's plan, as least not yet. In fact, Thor's plan is not really a plan, but more of a useful idea that could work and might prove very valuable in the long term.

    Roy is not unwilling to talk to Redcloak and follow Thor's suggestion to Durkon, but he is recognizing that it is difficult to imagine such will succeed while Xykon is around.

    Furthermore, the gods are provably not working towards a long term solution for the Snarl in any concerted way, as demonstrated by the vote and no apparent general interest in quidity arising in the pre-vote discussion. We can presume that a Thor and, at best, a small number of gods are very interested in the potential for TDO being part of a long term solution.

  6. - Top - End - #66
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    Default Re: OOTS #1195 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Psychronia View Post
    "Good Alignment Gods" does not mean "on our side". Redcloak is gonna be a pain to negotiate with, but killing Xykon is a pretty good start-if you can pull it off when Redcloak is supporting.
    When facing someone who is hard to kill, it is sure convenient to remove his easy means of getting healing (Harm) first. Roy is correct to be skeptical that Julia's idea can be implemented, while he knows it is a good idea.

    Once Xykon is gone, Redcloak will be running out of options, with destroy the Gate himself or negotiate being the only obvious ones. So, it becomes a simpler tactical problem of convincing Redcloak to not destroy the Gate quite yet.

  7. - Top - End - #67
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    Default Re: OOTS #1195 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Giggling Ghast View Post
    ‪ Right-Eye was right when he said that goblins would never be free until Xykon was destroyed.
    Yep.
    Quote Originally Posted by Grey_Wolf_c View Post
    An apatheist acknowledges but ignores the baggage. An Atheist discards it.
    A useful distinction, thanks.
    Quote Originally Posted by JumboWheat01 View Post
    Or he may still be partly hungover and is trying to keep calm to keep the pain down.
    Quote Originally Posted by bunsen_h View Post
    Or perhaps it's a long-term effect of having had his first exposure to really good beer.
    It could be both.

    Comment on the strip:
    The discussion is pre-empting / delaying coverage of the scouting mission that Haley and V are on. (panel 15) I am hoping that the scene switches to them real soon.
    Last edited by KorvinStarmast; 2020-03-16 at 12:51 PM.
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  8. - Top - End - #68
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    Default Re: OOTS #1195 - The Discussion Thread

    On the one hand, Roy objects to "a bunch of supposedly-benevolent deities opt[ing] to throw all of us under the cosmic bus when push [comes] to shove".

    On the other hand, Roy says "My top priority is saving this world and these people".

    It seems to me that the only real difference between the motivations of Roy and those "supposedly-benevolent deities" is which world (or worlds) and which people are of highest priority. In the case of a conflict of interest, both primarily look out for their own home, their own kind.

  9. - Top - End - #69
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    Default Re: OOTS #1195 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Grey_Wolf_c View Post
    "How to be an atheist when Gods are provably real". I love it.
    This is very close of my theory about Gods in A Song of Ice and Fire. They don't exist. Some people have magic. They claim it come from gods.

    Still, in OOTS, we have the gods claiming they created the worlds.
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    Default Re: OOTS #1195 - The Discussion Thread

    It seems to me that Roy speaks more informally to Julia ("I was just surprised you wanted to.") than he does to Vaarsuvius ("I wouldn't know to whom to turn you over."), or, at least, he is more willing to end sentences with prepositions when the person with whom he's talking is Julia.

  11. - Top - End - #71

    Default Re: OOTS #1195 - The Discussion Thread

    Not much different than situational dialects. I speak much differently to my cousin who's a professor of comparative mythology than to his brother who is close to functionally illiterate.

  12. - Top - End - #72
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    Default Re: OOTS #1195 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by NihhusHuotAliro View Post
    It seems to me that Roy speaks more informally to Julia ("I was just surprised you wanted to.") than he does to Vaarsuvius ("I wouldn't know to whom to turn you over."), or, at least, he is more willing to end sentences with prepositions when the person with whom he's talking is Julia.
    He ends a sentence in a proposition in the second panel with V. Which makes sense Roy doesn't seem to be the sort who cares about non-existent grammar rules.
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  13. - Top - End - #73
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    Default Re: OOTS #1195 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    He ends a sentence in a proposition in the second panel with V. Which makes sense Roy doesn't seem to be the sort who cares about non-existent grammar rules.
    In panel 2, Roy is having something of an emotional outburst, which he immediately apologizes for. He is in a calmer state of mind in panel 5, thinking more carefully about his words.

    Indeed, it is not a grammar rule that prepositions are not things with which one ought to end sentences. It is, however, seen by many as "more formal" to avoid doing so.

    I think it is a deliberate bit of characterization.

  14. - Top - End - #74
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    Default Re: OOTS #1195 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by lenon3579 View Post
    The gods are just fancy alien wizards who managed to crowdsource their magic.

    Actually the best ever definition of what the gods are.

    Or even more bluntly - "High level NPC's with a lot of flavor text", especially the older D&D editions. Makes sense for Eugene, he probably started adventuring under 1st Edition rules...


    Side note - one of the reasons I really like the old game Runequest and its modern descendants like "King of Dragon Pass" is that it took what would be the fluff of other gaming systems' deities/religions and made it the crunch. Designer Greg Stafford (RIP) was all about incorporating the Mythic into his games.
    Some people think that Chaotic Neutral is the alignment of the insane, but the enlightened know that Chaotic Neutral is the only alignment without illusions of sanity.

  15. - Top - End - #75
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    Default Re: OOTS #1195 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    New theory: Eric died when Eugene was trying to research a new spell, Backfire Shield.
    Hmm....

    Spoiler: Backfire Shield
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    Backfire Shield

    Abjuration

    Level: Sor/Wiz 3
    Components: M
    Casting Time: 1 standard action
    Range: Personal
    Target: You; see text
    Duration: 1 round/level

    The whiff of carbolic soap is a good sign, right?

    If you fail a Reflex saving throw against an effect that normally deals half damage on a successful save, you and a random adjacent ally both take half damage instead. If you have no adjacent ally, you take full damage normally.

    This only works on hit point damage, other aspects of the effect work on you (and only you) normally. Your ally takes damage of the same type as you took, and any resistance/immunity/vulnerability applies as normal (though they do not get a saving throw of their own).

    While this spell is active, you automatically fail saving throws against effects with the Fire descriptor.

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  16. - Top - End - #76
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    Default Re: OOTS #1195 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Grey_Wolf_c View Post
    "How to be an atheist when Gods are provably real". I love it.

    Rich, when this is all over, I really encourage you to give Discworld a try. It is remarkable how much your humour and conclusions fit with Pratchett's. I think you will enjoy him.
    Yeah, Rich and Pterry often strike me as kindred spirits.

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    "But all them things exist," said Nanny Ogg.

    "That's no call to go around believing in them. It only encourages 'em.”

    - Terry Pratchett, Lords and Ladies

    In his more cynical moments, Roy would probably also get along well with Lord Vetinari:

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Havelock Vetinari
    "If there is any kind of supreme being...it is up to all of us to become his moral superior.”

    - Terry Pratchett, Unseen Academicals

  17. - Top - End - #77
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    Default Re: OOTS #1195 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Jasdoif View Post
    Hmm....

    Spoiler: Backfire Shield
    Show
    Backfire Shield

    Abjuration

    Level: Sor/Wiz 3
    Components: M
    Casting Time: 1 standard action
    Range: Personal
    Target: You; see text
    Duration: 1 round/level

    The whiff of carbolic soap is a good sign, right?

    If you fail a Reflex saving throw against an effect that normally deals half damage on a successful save, you and a random adjacent ally both take half damage instead. If you have no adjacent ally, you take full damage normally.

    This only works on hit point damage, other aspects of the effect work on you (and only you) normally. Your ally takes damage of the same type as you took, and any resistance/immunity/vulnerability applies as normal (though they do not get a saving throw of their own).

    While this spell is active, you automatically fail saving throws against effects with the Fire descriptor.

    Material Component: A bit of coal tar.
    Spoiler
    Show
    Cuthalion's art is the prettiest art of all the art. Like my avatar.

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  18. - Top - End - #78
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    Default Re: OOTS #1195 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Grey_Wolf_c View Post
    And the pipeline dream that that is a thing that can be fixed is the kind of dead end that many university projects run into, so I wouldn't be confident that that will be done in time.
    High school project. Honestly I'd expect people that don't even have working spells would be getting As.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    Apatheism* ("not caring about gods") would probably be a better description. The Greenhiults don't question the existence of the gods. In OOTS-world (and other worlds where gods are demonstrably a thing), atheists would be the equivalent of rea-world flat earthers.

    *or maltheism if they came to the conclusion that the gods are bad people.
    TV tropes calls it "Nay-theism"
    Quote Originally Posted by Mox View Post
    No need to be obsessed with getting it in english; because assuming all translation are on the same level as the french one, they're all fantastic.
    Is that actually hard? It should be easy to find a digital version of any major modern book in the original language, but I guess it's not. I have an amazon.fr account because amazon.com wouldn't let me buy the french version of a french pop song.
    wait, how many grammar mistakes did I make ?
    You don't need a semicolon (or anything) before the "because". Also, you should have had a comma after the "because" to mark the beginning of the subordinate clause, or (as is my own preference) put it in parentheses.

    But those are very small issues.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    Correct!
    If only I had payed ore attention in French class, I'd be able to translate that into English.
    Quote Originally Posted by Frozenstep View Post
    Man, Roy is so mellow now. Wonder if this is a kind of stress response, trying to act overly relaxed.
    Stress isn't so much caused by difficult or important situations, but also situations you're unprepared for. As far as Roy knows, he has one straightforward encounter coming up that he has been specifically preparing for for a long time.
    Quote Originally Posted by NihhusHuotAliro View Post
    Indeed, it is not a grammar rule that prepositions are not things with which one ought to end sentences. It is, however, seen by many as "more formal" to avoid doing so.
    True: however, he was speaking with Vaarsuvius; that is something up with which Vaarsuvius will not put when one is directly to speak with them.

  19. - Top - End - #79
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    Default Re: OOTS #1195 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by NihhusHuotAliro View Post
    On the one hand, Roy objects to "a bunch of supposedly-benevolent deities opt[ing] to throw all of us under the cosmic bus when push [comes] to shove".

    On the other hand, Roy says "My top priority is saving this world and these people".

    It seems to me that the only real difference between the motivations of Roy and those "supposedly-benevolent deities" is which world (or worlds) and which people are of highest priority. In the case of a conflict of interest, both primarily look out for their own home, their own kind.
    The difference is that, if Roy saves the world, then that ALSO saves the gods (for how long depends on how things shake out with Redcloak, but still), while the pro-demolition bloc would be specifically dooming the world to save their own. The pro-demolition gods are specifically trying to do something at the expense of others, while Roy's goal is a net positive for all involved. (Even if he blows things with Redcloak, more time before the Snarl is still a better result than less time.)

    So they're not really equivalent, because Roy's plan doesn't throw the gods under the bus in return.

  20. - Top - End - #80
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    Default Re: OOTS #1195 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Grey Watcher View Post
    So they're not really equivalent, because Roy's plan doesn't throw the gods under the bus in return.
    Except Hel, of course, but I’m having difficulty finding it in myself to care.

    Grey Wolf
    Last edited by Grey_Wolf_c; 2020-03-16 at 02:30 PM.
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  21. - Top - End - #81
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    Default Re: OOTS #1195 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Quizatzhaderac View Post
    Is that actually hard? It should be easy to find a digital version of any major modern book in the original language, but I guess it's not.
    Digital and paper aren’t the same. People have different’ reading habits depending on format.
    amazon [...] amazon
    Eww.

    Stress isn't so much caused by difficult or important situations, but also situations you're unprepared for. As far as Roy knows, he has one straightforward encounter coming up that he has been specifically preparing for for a long time.
    Sometimes, when something important is going to happen very soon and I am as prepared as I can be, I become very calm after a period of intense stress.
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  22. - Top - End - #82
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    Default Re: OOTS #1195 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Grey_Wolf_c View Post
    Except Hel, of course, but I’m having difficulty finding it in myself to care.

    Grey Wolf
    Maybe she'd be more sympathetic if people just believed she could be better.

    Actually, dang. Now I wish everyone in Stickworld was super-optimistic, they could change all the evil gods and make the neutral and good ones more kind after long enough.
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  23. - Top - End - #83
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    Default Re: OOTS #1195 - The Discussion Thread

    This was some of the best writing I have seen in a while.

    Roy, Julia and even Eugene come looking a lot better and more three-dimensional from this strip.

    It helps that the moral is solid, too.

  24. - Top - End - #84
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    Default Re: OOTS #1195 - The Discussion Thread

    One thing I’ve just recently noticed, at this point everyone in the party but Elan has an important character as a hanger-on, Belkar got Mr. Scruffy and V got Blackwing first, but then Bandana has attached herself to Haley, Minrah to Durkon, and now Julia to Roy.
    Arrrgh, here be me extended sig!
    Spoiler: Read this if I've posted a theory in the post above
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schroeswald View Post
    I recognize that Conservation of Detail is Overrated, but I find the event that I am using as evidence for my theory above important enough/given enough focus to qualify for what I call Elan’s Exception, “Who wastes perfectly good foreshadowing like that?”. Also I have never correctly predicted any event in any piece of media so take this theory with a grain of salt (I call this Peelee’s Ye Old Reminder).

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    Default Re: OOTS #1195 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Schroeswald View Post
    One thing I’ve just recently noticed, at this point everyone in the party but Elan has an important character as a hanger-on, Belkar got Mr. Scruffy and V got Blackwing first, but then Bandana has attached herself to Haley, Minrah to Durkon, and now Julia to Roy.
    Err, Elan has Banjo!!

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    Default Re: OOTS #1195 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    Maybe she'd be more sympathetic if people just believed she could be better.

    Actually, dang. Now I wish everyone in Stickworld was super-optimistic, they could change all the evil gods and make the neutral and good ones more kind after long enough.
    I do kinda hope that she gets released from The Bet at some point. She's an unrepentant jerk, she's cruel and petty, and her only comfort seems to be inflicting misery on those who can't fight back, but even she doesn't quite deserve the slow wasting away she's been condemned to.

    Plus, I think it'd do wonders for her disposition to have some people around who actually want to be there.
    Last edited by Grey Watcher; 2020-03-16 at 03:00 PM.

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    Default Re: OOTS #1195 - The Discussion Thread

    oh, i also wanna thank the giant for the updates to the comic page! all the comics now have their original title in the tab instead of just the number! excellent update! :D
    my avatar is my gaian avatar, it changes whenever i change on gaia.


    ^ help the order of the stick wiki out? ^

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    Default Re: OOTS #1195 - The Discussion Thread

    I understand the need for building up (real world) suspense, given that the party is (right now) discovering that O-chul has been kidnapped. But it seems weird that Julia suddenly has some significance in this story. No idea what in-universe knowledge Roy would gain from this interaction that he didn't already have?
    When people told you that you were dumb, they were being nice.

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    Default Re: OOTS #1195 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    Well, he's not exactly wrong. It's basically Clarke's third law but with magic. Nothing about the god's powers means their morals are superior to the mortals. I mean: Hel is a goddess. Especially since they're not in charge of the Cosmic Law, Good, Chaos and Evil.
    Well, yes, but it's Eugene who would call them wizards. That's the part that amuses me; Roy is certainly right that they're not morally superior.


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    Default Re: OOTS #1195 - The Discussion Thread

    Useless observation time.

    Counting only this book, with comic 1190 as 0, the number of days between comics has followed the Fibonacci sequence if you subtract six from each (7, 7, 8, 9, 11). If this continues, comic 1196 comes out on March 30th.

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