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    Default what are some ultimate items in this game?

    spells do everything i want so i never used magic items and always gave em to my party members. but playing ragnarok online and making god items and seeing how npcs talk about god items with fear in their voices made me wanna be a guy who makes god items.

    as i understand though, artifacts in this game kind of suck. and are uncraftable. so what are some real ultimate items? like what combination of +10 weapon or armor makes it the ultimate weapon or armor that would make people kill each other to obtain one or try to blackmail my artificer into making one?

    single items are ok too. thought bottle for obvious reasons and rod of excellent magic.

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    Default Re: what are some ultimate items in this game?

    Quote Originally Posted by newguydude1 View Post
    spells do everything i want so i never used magic items and always gave em to my party members. but playing ragnarok online and making god items and seeing how npcs talk about god items with fear in their voices made me wanna be a guy who makes god items.

    as i understand though, artifacts in this game kind of suck. and are uncraftable. so what are some real ultimate items? like what combination of +10 weapon or armor makes it the ultimate weapon or armor that would make people kill each other to obtain one or try to blackmail my artificer into making one?

    single items are ok too. thought bottle for obvious reasons and rod of excellent magic.
    Most high-level items aren't very valuable for their gp cost. I find that combining lower- and mid-level items tends to be a lot more useful. Use the rules in the MIC (which are pretty much identical to the "suggestions" in the DMG) to create stuff like this.

    Quote Originally Posted by MaxiDuRaritry View Post
    Here're a few:

    Let Me Touch Your Skin
    So, find someone who can create and install illithid grafts (LoM). No, illithids are not a good idea here, because you'll wake up without a brain. Try a relatively trustworthy shapeshifter who can take the form of an illithid, or destroy the mind of an illithid and then use one of the myriad ways of inhabiting its body and do it yourself; those are much better ideas. Have 'em put you (or your body, at least) under for a few weeks (best done in quintessence) and remove your skin, turning it into an illithid humanoid skin graft. Now, ensure it's preserved via gentle repose or similar, and then enhance it as a magic item or twenty, which will take up your magic item slots, (?)(un)fortunately(?). Then reinstall.

    My favorite is the below WoC sanctified psychoactive skin of proteus, with a built-in 'possum pouch that is itself enhanced as a handy haversack + sanctified enveloping pit (for a 10' x 10' x 50' haversack), with hands that act like gloves of the master strategist to shrink items and auto-store them in your pouch.

    Now you're a shapeshifter who has his own video game inventory.

    Holy Psychoactive Skin, Batman!
    Use the Words of Creation (WoC) feat on a sanctified psychoactive skin of proteus. Now you've got +1 ML for fairly cheap on it, and you can use it to turn into creatures of 8 HD or lower. This works well for any psionic or magic item, really, but on the skin of proteus it's especially valuable.
    [edit] And here is an exercise in how combining disparate items to enhance unarmed strikes can get you epic levels in special abilities for cheap.
    Last edited by MaxiDuRaritry; 2020-03-20 at 08:01 PM.

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    Default Re: what are some ultimate items in this game?

    I would submit greater vestments of power (from Magic of Faerun) as one of the most impressive purchasable items in the game at its price point of 200,000 gp. It allows you to cast dimension door and true seeing (not self-only!) at will, and then it has a whole mess of other abilities on top of that.

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    ElfPirate

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    Default Re: what are some ultimate items in this game?

    The Starmantle Cloak is often mentioned as stupidly overpowered, even at the high level when you can afford it.

    Also, there are some very fun artifacts out there (though you can't create those yourself as a player, as far as I know). One of my favorites is the Regalia of Neutrality from the Arms & Equipment Guide.

    Last and least, Weapons of Legacy (which can be any magic item, not just a weapon). There are quite a few fun things you can do with these, but the costs are almost always not worth it. One thing they can do is open the door for further optimization, since a lot of optimization tricks require the item already have some quality (e.g. Ancestral Relic must be of at least masterwork quality), and turning it into a Legacy item can usually give it that quality (as early as 5th level, you can make your item a +1 improvised weapon, and therefore of masterwork quality). I don't know if that specific example actually works, but you get the idea that Legacy traits can qualify you for other tricks.
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    Default Re: what are some ultimate items in this game?

    Quote Originally Posted by PoeticallyPsyco View Post
    Weapons of Legacy
    Ugh. Why didn't they just name the book what it really is? DIY: Horribly Cursed Items Nobody Will Ever Use.
    Last edited by MaxiDuRaritry; 2020-03-20 at 08:33 PM.

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    Default Re: what are some ultimate items in this game?

    Quote Originally Posted by newguydude1 View Post
    the ultimate weapon or armor that would make people kill each other to obtain
    Well, as long as killing people is on the table, I'll recommend Belt of the Dread Emperor. For… 120k?… you can convert humanoid HP to spells, at the rate of HP = spell level².

    Goes really well with your "spells do everything i want" mindset.
    Last edited by Quertus; 2020-03-20 at 08:52 PM.

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    Default Re: what are some ultimate items in this game?

    If I remember correctly, combining the starmantle cloak with the Evasion class feature makes you immune to all weapon attacks contingent on beating a trivial Reflex save, which I have to imagine is a totally intended game mechanic and not the result of a lack of editing.

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    Default Re: what are some ultimate items in this game?

    Dust of Sneezing and Choking, 2,400 GP. And would be broken at 10x the price. 20' AOE stun for 5d4 rounds(no save), with an additional save vs Con damage effect. Buy exactly one dose, use it only when you have no other choice, and buy pizza for the DM after as an apology. This is basically an auto-win against an entire room of enemies, no matter how powerful.

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    Default Re: what are some ultimate items in this game?

    Mirrors of opposition are quite abusable, if you can find a way to trap the clone and keep the equipment on it. There was one trick with that, although I don't remember where it is. Google isn't doing anything for me, but it was a pretty neat trick. Anyone else have any luck finding it?

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    Default Re: what are some ultimate items in this game?

    Quote Originally Posted by MaxiDuRaritry View Post
    Mirrors of opposition are quite abusable, if you can find a way to trap the clone and keep the equipment on it. There was one trick with that, although I don't remember where it is. Google isn't doing anything for me, but it was a pretty neat trick. Anyone else have any luck finding it?
    Easiest thing to do is put the gear to be copied on an orphan, show them the mirror, then knock out the copy with subdual damage. There are more exotic methods I am sure but what other way lets you start off a new adventurer via traumatic experience?

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    OldWizardGuy

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    Default Re: what are some ultimate items in this game?

    Agreed that most artifacts are a bit disappointing.

    Vest of the Archmagi (MiC) is 200,000GP but should cost at least twice that based on what it does.

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    Default Re: what are some ultimate items in this game?

    Imho the ultimate crafting exploit is to craft Shuriken^^

    edit: beside from that, the regular weapon to go for the base ubercharger build would be a +5 weapon + valorous (+1) + (maybe keen on top) for double dmg on charge.

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    Default Re: what are some ultimate items in this game?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gruftzwerg View Post
    Imho the ultimate crafting exploit is to craft Shuriken^^
    +1 Morphing sizing shuriken, of course. 1/50 the cost of a +1 weapon, and you can turn them into whatever weapon you want. Feel free to add additional enhancements for 1/50 the cost, as well. Then turn them into poison rings (from Dragon Compendium), enhance them as rings, and so on. Add the ringsword enhancement to all of your weapons, turn them into poison rings, then daisy-chain them together as long as you want. Best done with weapon enhancements that grant bonus feats, so you can DCFS them out for whatever you want.

    Did I mention they're 1/50 the cost of a normal weapon? Because that makes those feats pretty cheap.

    Even better if you've got access to a tooth of Leraje, from Tome of Magic. If you've got a spellthief in the party, he can buff all of your weapons with the 1/day CL 20 greater magic weapon, as well as the rest of your party. Feel free to hire one, if not.
    Last edited by MaxiDuRaritry; 2020-03-21 at 01:59 AM.

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    Default Re: what are some ultimate items in this game?

    Quote Originally Posted by MaxiDuRaritry View Post
    +1 Morphing sizing shuriken, of course. 1/50 the cost of a +1 weapon, and you can turn them into whatever weapon you want. Feel free to add additional enhancements for 1/50 the cost, as well. Then turn them into poison rings (from Dragon Compendium), enhance them as rings, and so on. Add the ringsword enhancement to all of your weapons, turn them into poison rings, then daisy-chain them together as long as you want. Best done with weapon enhancements that grant bonus feats, so you can DCFS them out for whatever you want.

    Did I mention they're 1/50 the cost of a normal weapon? Because that makes those feats pretty cheap.

    Even better if you've got access to a tooth of Leraje, from Tome of Magic. If you've got a spellthief in the party, he can buff all of your weapons with the 1/day CL 20 greater magic weapon, as well as the rest of your party. Feel free to hire one, if not.
    while we are at it. can you recommend any Shuriken handbook/guide? I would like to add a link to my Shuriken build as additional info, but haven't seen/found any complete so far and I am still looking for a good one.

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    Default Re: what are some ultimate items in this game?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gruftzwerg View Post
    while we are at it. can you recommend any Shuriken handbook/guide? I would like to add a link to my Shuriken build as additional info, but haven't seen/found any complete so far and I am still looking for a good one.
    JaronK is always good for guides.

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    Default Re: what are some ultimate items in this game?

    Look into the Wondrois Architecture from Stronghold Builder's Guidebook as well as the wall augmentations and especially the mobile stronghold options. A lot of this stuff is more powerful than any single spell simply because of the sheer volume and weight that it affects.
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    Default Re: what are some ultimate items in this game?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bohandas View Post
    Look into the Wondrois Architecture from Stronghold Builder's Guidebook as well as the wall augmentations and especially the mobile stronghold options. A lot of this stuff is more powerful than any single spell simply because of the sheer volume and weight that it affects.
    It also tends to be insanely expensive.

    I mean, you could load the effects onto the above shurikens, or use planar binding on a genie with a wish, but that's about the only way any of them are affordable.

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    MindFlayer

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    Default Re: what are some ultimate items in this game?

    Quote Originally Posted by bundlesandflows View Post
    If I remember correctly, combining the starmantle cloak with the Evasion class feature makes you immune to all weapon attacks contingent on beating a trivial Reflex save, which I have to imagine is a totally intended game mechanic and not the result of a lack of editing.
    Not that good. It makes you immune to non-magical weapons. Against non-magical weapons or missiles you get a reflex save for half damage. It has no function against spells and since it specifically says weapons I would say it doesn't function against falling rocks, dragon breath etc. I'm also not entirely sure on the idea that it stacks with evasion. Evasion specifically says against an attack that deals half damage on a successful save. Weapon attacks don't have a normal reflex save for half.
    Last edited by the_tick_rules; 2020-03-21 at 09:20 AM.
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    Default Re: what are some ultimate items in this game?

    Quote Originally Posted by newguydude1 View Post
    spells do everything i want so i never used magic items and always gave em to my party members. but playing ragnarok online and making god items and seeing how npcs talk about god items with fear in their voices made me wanna be a guy who makes god items.

    as i understand though, artifacts in this game kind of suck. and are uncraftable. so what are some real ultimate items? like what combination of +10 weapon or armor makes it the ultimate weapon or armor that would make people kill each other to obtain one or try to blackmail my artificer into making one?

    single items are ok too. thought bottle for obvious reasons and rod of excellent magic.
    There is no ultimate weapon or armor but there are certain abilities that are hard to not see as awesome. I'll think on some items later

    Weapons:

    +5: A weapon that doesn't hit often and hard is useless

    Holy or unholy property: Lots of stronger enemies have damage reduction against good or evil. Plus adding 2d6 damage against them is great.

    Collision property: +5 damage against everything all the time is pretty sweet.

    Force: Only works on ranged weapons but turning a weapon projectile into force, which bypasses almost all damage reduction, is fantastic.

    Wounding: 1 point of constitution damage per hit can annihilate creatures vulnerable to it.

    Armor:

    Heavily fortified property: Stopping critical hits and sneak attack damage cold is wonderful.

    Soulfire property: Protects against death effects, negative energy, nearly cripples an entire class of spells.

    Items:

    Third eye of conceal or ring of mental fortitude: Makes you immune to mind-affecting abilities (and some other thing). Shuts down an entire class of spells and abilities.
    Last edited by the_tick_rules; 2020-03-21 at 09:45 AM.
    I would be a procrastinator, but I keep putting it off.

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    Default Re: what are some ultimate items in this game?

    Quote Originally Posted by the_tick_rules View Post
    Not that good. It makes you immune to non-magical weapons. Against non-magical weapons or missiles you get a reflex save for half damage. It has no function against spells and since it specifically says weapons I would say it doesn't function against falling rocks, dragon breath etc. I'm also not entirely sure on the idea that it stacks with evasion. Evasion specifically says against an attack that deals half damage on a successful save. Weapon attacks don't have a normal reflex save for half.
    Nope, you're immune to non-magical weapons, and get a save(that you auto) against MAGIC weapons. It's 200,000(+25,000 for a Ring of Evasion) to be immune to all melee attacks.
    Spoiler: Item Text
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    Starmantle Cloak: This draping black cloak turns into a sparkling mantle of tiny, cascading stars when worn. The cloak sheds light as a torch, renders the wearer impervious to nonmagical weapon attacks, and transforms any nonmagical weapon or missile that strikes the wearer into harmless light, destroying it. Contact with the starmantle does not destroy magic weapons or missiles, but the starmantle’s wearer is entitled to a DC 15 Reflex save each time he is struck by such a weapon; success indicates that the wearer takes only half damage from the attack

    As for evasion, the normal situation for a character with a Starmantle Cloak is that she receives half damage from melee attacks. Evasion even references "Attacks" rather than "spells".
    Spoiler: Evasion Text
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    At 2nd level and higher, a rogue can avoid even magical and unusual attacks with great agility. If she makes a successful Reflex saving throw against an attack that normally deals half damage on a successful save, she instead takes no damage. Evasion can be used only if the rogue is wearing light armor or no armor. A helpless rogue does not gain the benefit of evasion.

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    Default Re: what are some ultimate items in this game?

    Quote Originally Posted by the_tick_rules View Post
    +5: A weapon that doesn't hit often and hard is useless
    Enhancement bonuses above +1 are pointless and almost less than worthless, since well-chosen weapon abilities are vastly superior in all ways, and the additional enhancement bonus points above +1 are actively hindering your ability to gain more +1 equivalents at a reasonable price.

    After all, pretty much anyone with any competence and a spellcaster on-hand will have access to greater magic weapon, which doesn't stack with the weapon's enhancement bonus. Anyone who doesn't have a spellcaster on-hand really shouldn't be adventuring. And for groups who don't include T1s or T2s, getting items of greater magic weapon typically isn't too hard. And when that isn't the case? There are STILL better options than increasing the enhancement bonus by a few piddly points.
    Last edited by MaxiDuRaritry; 2020-03-21 at 09:59 AM.

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    Default Re: what are some ultimate items in this game?

    To me the key word is normally. Normally to me is something that has the entry pass this save for half damage like dragon breath or traps. The starmantle cloak is not a normal thing, it also specifically says weapon or missiles (I have the book of exalted deeds by the way).
    I would be a procrastinator, but I keep putting it off.

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    Default Re: what are some ultimate items in this game?

    Quote Originally Posted by MaxiDuRaritry View Post
    Enhancement bonuses above +1 are pointless and almost less than worthless, since well-chosen weapon abilities are vastly superior in all ways, and the additional enhancement bonus points above +1 are actively hindering your ability to gain more +1 equivalents at a reasonable price.

    After all, pretty much anyone with any competence and a spellcaster on-hand will have access to greater magic weapon, which doesn't stack with the weapon's enhancement bonus. Anyone who doesn't have a spellcaster on-hand really shouldn't be adventuring. And for groups who don't include T1s or T2s, getting items of greater magic weapon typically isn't too hard. And when that isn't the case? There are STILL better options than increasing the enhancement bonus by a few piddly points.
    I remember a thread about that, I forget if you were there. It is strong as heck absolutely but it has the drawback of requiring a lot of things to go right. The other person is very dependent on the caster to be available and have the slots available at all times. It would also mean if there are multiple people waiting for the buff the are waiting in line for a couple rounds or the caster has to burn a lot of quicken slots. It is powerful as heck if done properly I agree but combat is chaos, expect things to go wrong.
    I would be a procrastinator, but I keep putting it off.

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    Default Re: what are some ultimate items in this game?

    Quote Originally Posted by the_tick_rules View Post
    I remember a thread about that, I forget if you were there. It is strong as heck absolutely but it has the drawback of requiring a lot of things to go right. The other person is very dependent on the caster to be available and have the slots available at all times. It would also mean if there are multiple people waiting for the buff the are waiting in line for a couple rounds or the caster has to burn a lot of quicken slots. It is powerful as heck if done properly I agree but combat is chaos, expect things to go wrong.
    Buy a pearl of power or two for the party's caster to use that spell slot on your behalf. Cheaper than a +5 enhancement bonus, and it is much harder to dispel than the base CL for a regular weapon.
    Last edited by MaxiDuRaritry; 2020-03-21 at 10:07 AM.

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    Default Re: what are some ultimate items in this game?

    Quote Originally Posted by MaxiDuRaritry View Post
    Enhancement bonuses above +1 are pointless and almost less than worthless, since well-chosen weapon abilities are vastly superior in all ways, and the additional enhancement bonus points above +1 are actively hindering your ability to gain more +1 equivalents at a reasonable price.

    After all, pretty much anyone with any competence and a spellcaster on-hand will have access to greater magic weapon, which doesn't stack with the weapon's enhancement bonus. Anyone who doesn't have a spellcaster on-hand really shouldn't be adventuring. And for groups who don't include T1s or T2s, getting items of greater magic weapon typically isn't too hard. And when that isn't the case? There are STILL better options than increasing the enhancement bonus by a few piddly points.
    sure, you start with a +1 weapon and first stack the desired effects. When you have those you start to spend gold and upgrade it up to +5.
    You take the +5 either because you are not a full BAB build and need the bonus to hit or because you are stacking charge multiplier and take any bonus dmg that gets multiplied. And if you now come with "but Collision gives +5dmg for +2price", yeah, if you want Collision first and than go +5. No reason to not get a +5 weapon once you can spare the gold and don't need it on something more important anymore.
    It may not have high priority but still a nice to have in any high lvl (non caster) build.

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    Default Re: what are some ultimate items in this game?

    Despite the fact that this is the Playground, and someone can doubtless provide numbers on the relative effectiveness of various enchantment combinations vs expected foes, I think we'll likely have difficulty comparing "+5 weapon" vs "pearl of power" vs "spending spell slots (and spending the money on something else)".

    I think that it's fair to say that, when you don't have a party / don't know who might be in your party, a) if you cannot cast the spell yourself, you may regret not improving it to +5 (depending on your build); when you can enchant the weapon yourself and actually want to use a weapon (Cleric, primarily), you're probably better off with just a +1 weapon, most of the time.

    This, and my experiences, suggest to me that the optimal answer, for the optimal party, is to have a +1 weapon, and enchant it with Greater Magic Weapon, -unless- you happen to find a +5 weapon as part of random treasure (in which case, selling it back for half may not be worth the gear it buys, depending on the character's build).

    So, for really simple math, a +3 weapon is worth 18k, sells for 9k. That buys you a +2 equivalent weapon, with 1k left over. A level 6 übercharger, or crit fisher, or CoDzilla who rolled a really lucky "exactly what they were looking for / proficient in" +3 weapon - would they keep it? Should they keep it? Let's pretend that whatever weapon they were using just got destroyed, so there's no "but they would already have a weapon" issues to contend with.

    My guess is as follows: the crit fisher really wants "keen", and would sell it for a +1 keen weapon, pocketing the 1k; the Cleric, unable to cast Greater Magic Weapon just yet would keep the +3 for now, and sell it next level; the übercharger would keep the +3 for a very long time (or until they rolled something better).

    The Cleric would be sad if someone successfully dispelled their Greater Magic Weapon (because, unlike the +3 bonus, it won't just come back in 1d4 rounds)… but, then again, they'd be sad if someone dispelled any of the dwoemers that keep them competitive.

    Thoughts?

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    Default Re: what are some ultimate items in this game?

    Sometimes weapons and/or armor that are randomly rolled as loot are just way too cool to toss aside. A long time ago I was running a game that got into the high levels (16+) and they did a side-quest to retrieve an optional mcguffin. One of the items I randomly rolled for loot on that adventure was a +4 Composite Longbow, Holy, Unholy, Bane x2. I didn't roll for the bane types, I picked good outsiders and evil outsiders, and named the bow The Destroyer of Heaven and Hell. The party's neutral aligned Fighter (role) kept that as his ranged weapon, for whenever he needed to use one.


    Selling a +5 weapon (or any loot, for that matter) for 50% of value to replace it with more useful items is the default, but least optimal, way of going about that. Someone should have Mercantile Background and get the party 75% of value. Someone could have Ancestral Relic or similar, buy the item from the party at 50% (and get a portion of that back when loot is split), and add 100% of the item's value to their relic's value. The party's face character can make a Cha-based check to haggle a better deal than 50% of value, or even make an exchange for another item(s) of similar value. Or its full value can be used as payment for a Planar Binding or similar. Or any number of other uses that gets more value out of the loot than the default 50%.


    There's no good reason, apart from house rules, to not use GMW over paying for a permanently higher enhancement bonus. An area dispel magic doesn't hit attended items, a targeted dispel magic on a creature doesn't hit that creature's items. So an enemy caster spends a (greater) dispel magic to target that one item to deprive you of up to a +4 bonus to attack and damage, so they spend a significant spell and action for an inconsequential benefit. In short, it's not even worth dispelling because the bonus is always going to be small relative to your current level. They could do some kind of chain spell (greater) dispel magic to hit all the characters and their items, but in that case you have bigger problems than the loss of a +4 to attack and damage. Disjunction is another story, but there are plenty of ways to prevent it (like Psionic Contingency: augmented Synchronicity and cast a wall spell/power to block line of sight/effect, or Contingency: Teleport behind the caster and AoO with a Sudden Stunning weapon or similar, or Celerity: cast Silence on a point in space to automatically interrupt the verbal component, or Divine Defiance and (improved) counterspell, etc.).


    A magic weapon in and of itself isn't really going to contribute a lot to how much damage you deal, apart from a few very specific properties. Speed and Splitting are probably the most significant damage-increasing properties. Keen can be significant if you already have a high threat range, but that's very easy to do given how inexpensive it is (if you only get a +1 enhancement). Valorous is a huge benefit if the character does a lot of charge attacks, but it's just as cheap as Keen. Mage Bane is probably the only property that's a flat bonus to attack and damage that's worth the cost. You can try stacking Flaming, Frost, Shock, etc. but the cost scales exponentially while the benefit scales linearly, and a few more d6 of damage is barely noticeable, especially when high level enemies have resistance 10+ to several of those damage types. Subtlety gets an honorable mention because it's a flat 20k that doesn't increase the cost of other upgrades for an extra +4 to attack and damage. Apart from one big property and maybe a few small ones, it's not really worthwhile to spend anything more to upgrade your primary weapon unless you want to add other things besides damage. Non-enhancement-priced effects like Subtlety, Sudden Stunning, Displacement from OA, special materials, wand chambers, weapon crystals, etc. are generally worthwhile because they don't cause the cost to scale exponentially. Wrathful Healing is one of those other things that's generally worthwhile at the higher levels.

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    Default Re: what are some ultimate items in this game?

    Another good idea for stacking item properties is a weapon crystal or armor crystal (especially if you're a warforged monk).

    Stacking weapon crystals is an extremely cheap way of increasing your damage output and protecting your weapon from sundering, especially compared to adding the exponentially increasing +1d6 damage boosters. You're getting +1d6 acid/cold/electricity/fire/sonic regardless, but one is a scaling cost while the other is a flat (and relatively small) cost, even with the +50% markup.

    As far as warforged monks go, you're adding the armor crystal onto your warforged plating, which IS you. It's your body. So getting that +10 hardness affects any damage you take that doesn't explicitly override it, which is very nice. Of course, this is one case wherein enhancement bonuses to AC are great as well, since those explicitly increase HP and hardness ratings, and since your armor IS you...

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    Default Re: what are some ultimate items in this game?

    Quote Originally Posted by the_tick_rules View Post
    To me the key word is normally. Normally to me is something that has the entry pass this save for half damage like dragon breath or traps. The starmantle cloak is not a normal thing, it also specifically says weapon or missiles (I have the book of exalted deeds by the way).
    The ring of evasion has a different wording:
    This ring continually grants the wearer the ability to avoid damage as if she had evasion. Whenever she makes a Reflex saving throw to determine whether she takes half damage, a successful save results in no damage.
    This seems pretty ironclad to me.

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