How come Aarindarius didn’t warn Vaarsuvius against hir specialization choices?

[Jasdoif]

Now, can we get back to talking about the difference between evoking elemental fire as a fireball and conjuring a flaming ball of fire?

Can we, instead, talk about how Healing is a Conjuration subschool, even though most of its spells have more in common with Evocation or Necromancy?

[King of Nowhere]

Not to really get into it, but from the people that I know... it depends. I've not run into any that prefer gender neutral pronouns, though that may just be cultural differences, but for the people I know, if it's an honest mistake in pronouns, it tends to be able to be brushed over. But, for a lot, yes, being gendered correctly matters to them, and it's important, especially if they've come from an upbringing that hasn't supported their choices, so being misgendered ends up bringing up a lot of pain, and often a reminder of struggles that they're still facing.

I guess the gender of pronouns matters less when your language forces you to share it either with a hammer and a screwdriver and a nail, or with a saw and a wrench and a screw
I also guess they are more important for english speakers because normal words don't have gender and pronouns are the only thing that does. In english, when you say "she" you are setting the gender for everything else. plus, you have the neutral, so you are definitely referring about a "she". On the other hand, in italian using our equivalent of "she" doesn't mean much if you don't follow with the rest of the sentence. even then, you may be talking about an apple, or an alarm clock.

Or, Thor forbid, maybe all the way back to why Aarindarius would not consider his chosen field of magical specialization mediocre?

And yes, I'm aware I'm like 90% of the reason why the thread derailed, but still.

Grey Wolf

imho, there was no longer a point to the main topic already since the first page. the only thing that kept it running was the OP refusing to come out of her player-optimization-oriented perspective. So, when I saw it derail, I jumped on board

[hroþila]

I guess the gender of pronouns matters less when your language forces you to share it either with a hammer and a screwdriver and a nail, or with a saw and a wrench and a screw
I also guess they are more important for english speakers because normal words don't have gender and pronouns are the only thing that does. In english, when you say "she" you are setting the gender for everything else. plus, you have the neutral, so you are definitely referring about a "she". On the other hand, in italian using our equivalent of "she" doesn't mean much if you don't follow with the rest of the sentence. even then, you may be talking about an apple, or an alarm clock.

Spanish works exactly like Italian when it comes to grammatical gender, but that doesn't make using the correct gender for a person any less important. Personally I don't think the non-motivated grammatical gender of inanimate objects and animal species has much of a bearing on how we conceptualize it and use it with referents that do have a non-grammatical gender.

[Fyraltari]

Yeah I know a trans guy who takes correct pronoun usage very much as heart.

Edit: to clarify, we are both French and French like Spanish and Italian has two grammatical genders.

[KorvinStarmast]

Spanish works exactly like Italian when it comes to grammatical gender, but that doesn't make using the correct gender for a person any less important. Personally I don't think the non-motivated grammatical gender of inanimate objects and animal species has much of a bearing on how we conceptualize it and use it with referents that do have a non-grammatical gender.

Which leads me to ask whether or not beer is masculine, feminine or neuter? In Spanish, cerveza would seem to have a feminine ending, but I've been fooled before. And in Japanese, biru (as we were taught to pronounce it) may or may not have other than neutral connotation.

Aarindarius, getting back on topic, drinks wine and considers a grape to be genderless. No wonder V's formative years as an apprentice left gaps in their understanding. (As Durkon might observe)

[DataNinja]

I guess the gender of pronouns matters less when your language forces you to share it either with a hammer and a screwdriver and a nail, or with a saw and a wrench and a screw
I also guess they are more important for english speakers because normal words don't have gender and pronouns are the only thing that does. In english, when you say "she" you are setting the gender for everything else. plus, you have the neutral, so you are definitely referring about a "she". On the other hand, in italian using our equivalent of "she" doesn't mean much if you don't follow with the rest of the sentence. even then, you may be talking about an apple, or an alarm clock.

To be fair, in English 'she' could also end up talking about a boat or a plane.

But, yeah, I can imagine how that would end up shaping the culture when it comes around to discussing gender. Especially if the language rules aren't strictly followed, and things are used interchangeably in understanding during common parlance. When everything's gendered, nothing is. Or something like that. Though, seems like from other comments it's simply one way a culture could develop.

[Kantaki]

Or, Thor forbid, maybe all the way back to why Aarindarius would not consider his chosen field of magical specialization mediocre?

I mean, even if Aardy considered V's choice of specialization and/or restrictions a mistake he could be the kind of teacher that believes you learn best from mistakes.
Or V ignored him or choose their schools before he could advise them.

Or maybe evokers consider conjuration cheating and ban it on principle.
Considering V banned it an necromancy, it might be a dislike for the classic minion making forms of magic.
Assuming we can draw such conclusions from one wizard's choices and the fact their teacher probably didn't try (very hard) to stop them.

[hroþila]

Which leads me to ask whether or not beer is masculine, feminine or neuter? In Spanish, cerveza would seem to have a feminine ending, but I've been fooled before. And in Japanese, biru (as we were taught to pronounce it) may or may not have other than neutral connotation.

Cerveza is indeed feminine. But that doesn't make it female in our minds

When reading German or Old English, I'm often thrown off by a sudden switch between the natural gender and the grammatical gender of the same referent, which is something that doesn't happen often in Spanish (it can happen if you're using the feminine word persona to refer to a male person, but you almost have to be doing this on purpose for it to be a problem). I was reading the Grimm brothers version of Little Red Riding Hood the other day:

Es war einmal eine kleine süße Dirne, die hatte jedermann lieb, der sie nur ansah, am allerliebsten aber ihre Großmutter [up to this point, all the underlined words referring to Little Red Riding Hood have been feminine], die wusste gar nicht was sie alles dem Kinde [suddenly the text refers to her as "the child", which is grammatically neuter] geben sollte. Einmal schenkte sie [i.e. the grandma] ihm [i.e. Little Red Riding Hood, but this is again neuter, "it", referring to "das Kind"] ein Käppchen von rotem Sammet, und weil ihm ["it", i.e. "her"] das so wohl stand, und es ["it", i.e. "she"] nichts anders mehr tragen wollte, hieß es ["it", i.e. "she"] nur das Rotkäppchen

[King of Nowhere]

Yeah I know a trans guy who takes correct pronoun usage very much as heart.

Well, with the one I know I never failed to use the correct pronoun anyway, but it was easy for me because I only met him after he had surgery. I have nothing against trying to use the right pronoun, I just don't like the idea that someone can get mad if i make an honest mistake. And yes, 99% of people are cool with honest mistakes. unfortunately, media and hearsay make the worst cases stick out.

Regarding gender of inanimate objects, I'm thinking that it may just have to do with the final letter in the word. In italian, female nouns almost always end with "a", male with "o", plural male with "i" and plural female with "e". There are virtually no italian words ending for "u" or for a consonant, except foreing loanwords.
So, perhaps it feels easy for italians to know that hammer is male and saw is female simply because one is "martello" and the other is "sega", and we base the gender on the last letter and not the other way around. Then again, there are some exceptions, so perhaps it's not that.
Now I'm curious. I have a couple friends who studied language, I'll have to ask them

[MunchkinsOnly]

imho, there was no longer a point to the main topic already since the first page. the only thing that kept it running was the OP refusing to come out of her player-optimization-oriented perspective. So, when I saw it derail, I jumped on board

Think about all the potential exploits! Wall of Iron + Polymorph Any Object(starmetal; +5 same kingdom, +2 same class, +2 same size) + Fabricate(Craft(weaponsmithing)) = weapons of pure starmetal! Tons of money in one go, all possible with a Conjuration spell! As for carrying them, just use Telekinesis or have a designated meat shield carry it.

[Morty]

Think about all the potential exploits! Wall of Iron + Polymorph Any Object(starmetal; +5 same kingdom, +2 same class, +2 same size) + Fabricate(Craft(weaponsmithing)) = weapons of pure starmetal! Tons of money in one go, all possible with a Conjuration spell! As for carrying them, just use Telekinesis or have a designated meat shield carry it.

Have such exploits ever appeared in the comic as anything but a joke?

[pearl jam]

And in Japanese, biru (as we were taught to pronounce it) may or may not have other than neutral connotation.

Japanese doesn't have grammatical gender. I'm failing completely to grasp what you are trying to convey here.

[KorvinStarmast]

Japanese doesn't have grammatical gender. I'm failing completely to grasp what you are trying to convey here.

Well there you go; you have cleared up for me something that I did not understand. What I was trying to convey was that I didn't know if such an issue arises in Japanese, and you have advised me that it does not. Hooray! (It was about 30 years ago and my Japanese vocab never got bigger than 200 words. And, if you don't use it, you lose it. So, I lost what little I used except a few {essential} things like how to ask for a beer.

[Peelee]

Think about all the potential exploits! Wall of Iron + Polymorph Any Object(starmetal; +5 same kingdom, +2 same class, +2 same size) + Fabricate(Craft(weaponsmithing)) = weapons of pure starmetal! Tons of money in one go, all possible with a Conjuration spell! As for carrying them, just use Telekinesis or have a designated meat shield carry it.

That doesn't sound like a story I'd be interested in reading.

[hroþila]

Pure starmetal longswords would weigh 300 pounds. They'd just be fancy sharp ingots, completely rubbish as weapons.

[hamishspence]

Given that a steel greatsword weighs 8 lb in D&D, and steel's density is about 8 g per cubic cm, it follows that a 300 lb star metal greatsword has a density of 300 g per cubic cm.

For comparison, osmium, the densest natural element, is 22 g per cubic cm.

I wonder if Roy's noticed that it's so dense as to be a pain in the hand to hold?

[Grey_Wolf_c]

I wonder if Roy's noticed that it's so dense as to be a pain in the hand to hold?

Nah, he's past noticing those things.

Grey Wolf

[hamishspence]

The rock, not the sword. Didn't Roy only get his Belt of Giant Strength long after the starmetal arc?

https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0687.html

[MunchkinsOnly]

Pure starmetal longswords would weigh 300 pounds. They'd just be fancy sharp ingots, completely rubbish as weapons.

But you could sell them! For unbelievable profits, no less! And you could still have smaller bits of starmetal molded into the equipment for something along the lines of +100 bonuses or higher. There is also the potential for fortifications.

[Peelee]

But you could sell them! For unbelievable profits, no less!

To who? The Sapphire Guard? Gobbotopia?

[Kantaki]

But you could sell them! For unbelievable profits, no less! And you could still have smaller bits of starmetal molded into the equipment for something along the lines of +100 bonuses or higher. There is also the potential for fortifications.

Who would buy those useless swords?
Or the slightly less useless, but hilariously expensive ones?
At the point where I could afford one I probably have good enough stuff already.
Or a few favours I can call in for something on that level.
Also, better things to waste my gold on. Like funding an empire.

And fortifications? Unless we're talking Xykon's Tomb-Fortress of Doom or a Castle in the Sky I don't think you can build those anywhere.
With that mass wouldn't the walls sink into solid ground?
And again, at that level there should be better stuff to waste your gold and magic on.

Also, who even says that the specific qualities that make starmetal what it is can recreated by transmuting stuff?
We neither know what it actually is* nor where it comes from- there's no guarantee Stick-Verse space is like ours.
The stuff might be from another plane(s), or soaked in energies mortal magic cannot recreate.

Actually, that might be why no one ever bothered with it. Someone tried. It doesn't work.
At best you get some very heavy tin. At worst there's work for carthographers.

*Beyond "metal from the stars". Not helpful that.

[Fyraltari]

But you could sell them! For unbelievable profits, no less! And you could still have smaller bits of starmetal molded into the equipment for something along the lines of +100 bonuses or higher. There is also the potential for fortifications.

since when is Vaarsuvius' goal in life to make money?

[Jasdoif]

*Beyond "metal from the stars". Not helpful that.

It does tell you twice that it isn't boron, which is neither metal nor from the stars....

[Grey_Wolf_c]

It does tell you twice that it isn't boron, which is neither metal nor from the stars....

Not metal I'll grant you, but I'm fairly certain most boron is the product of fusion in stars, just like all elements up to iron?

Grey Wolf

[Jasdoif]

Not metal I'll grant you, but I'm fairly certain most boron is the product of fusion in stars, just like all elements up to iron?

No, actually; boron is not produced by stellar nucleosynthesis.

[Peelee]

Not metal I'll grant you, but I'm fairly certain most boron is the product of fusion in stars, just like all elements up to iron?

Grey Wolf

All elements are just hydrogen clustered really close together.

[King of Nowhere]

If someone else is curious like me about italian genders for inanimate objects, I asked an expert, and she says that it was mostly an accident in the transition from latin to italian. Latin had five declinations, the first was used mostly for female nouns, the second for male nouns, the other three had a mix of everything including neutral. When latin gradually got simplified in being used by the common people, those other declinations fell out of use, and nouns got put into the first or second declination, more or less at random. Since those declinations were associate with gender, then those words gained a gender, and italian gradually lost the neutral form.
In modern italian the gender of a word is learned when we learn the language, like one more thing attched to a word besides its meaning. We also have the final letter to look, though there are several exceptions. One very common mistake among foreigners who are fluent in italian is to miss one of those exceptions and swap the gender of a neutral noun, because of course those make no sense.

Not metal I'll grant you, but I'm fairly certain most boron is the product of fusion in stars, just like all elements up to iron?

Grey Wolf

Pretty much all elements heavier than helium form in stars. A few that don't form in stars form afterwards from radioactive decay of heavier elements or from spallation from cosmic rays, but in either cases you still need the heavier element coming from the star.

[hamishspence]

Some don't so much "form in the star" as "form in the blast wave created as the star explodes as a supernova"

And some may be created when neutron stars merge - again expelled in a blast wave that accompanies the merger.

[The MunchKING]

To who? The Sapphire Guard? Gobbotopia?

Wizards looking to upgrade what their super-strength minions are carrying?

Also, who even says that the specific qualities that make starmetal what it is can recreated by transmuting stuff?

TaO Specifically calls out "adamantine" as one of the "Materials of great value" that it can't duplicate. It also calls out Mithral and Cold Iron, so I'm guessing if it would do a cool thing in a sword, TaO can't do it.

[MunchkinsOnly]

Wizards looking to upgrade what their super-strength minions are carrying?



TaO Specifically calls out "adamantine" as one of the "Materials of great value" that it can't duplicate. It also calls out Mithral and Cold Iron, so I'm guessing if it would do a cool thing in a sword, TaO can't do it.

RAW does NOT mention starmetal, so my earlier statement still applies.