How come Aarindarius didn’t warn Vaarsuvius against hir specialization choices?

[MunchkinsOnly]

The OP is certainly proving adept at ignoring inconvenient arguments and explanations.

I would like you to list all the examples so that I could avoid doing that.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

It is a well known fact that Conjuration is an excellent school while Evocation is mediocre at best.

No, it is not "a well known fact".

ETA: it occurs to me that you mean "when it comes to killing creatures whose skin tone doesn't match mine so I can steal their stuff, Conjuration is an excellent school while Evocation is mediocre at best", which might actually be the case, but then you'd need to prove that Aarindarius spends their time killing creatures whose skin tone doesn't match theirs so they can steal their stuff, which certainly doesn't sounds like something Aarindarius spends time doing.

In fact, it is quite likely that the spellcasting community in OoTS knows these facts as well, as they should.

I don't see why this would be the case.

Which begs the question: Why didn’t Aarindarius, skilled teacher of Vaarsuvius and likely an epic level spellcaster,

[citation needed]

warn Vaarsuvius against specializing in Evocation and banning Conjuration?! These choices are some of the worst choices possible for a spellcaster and Aarindarius would have known that, so they had a responsibility to prevent Vaarsuvius from making a mistake that will stick with them forever! I understand why The Giant made it that way, but what is the justification In-Universe?

For the same reason that specializing in cuneiform is a terrible choice for an active battlefield soldier, and yet it is a perfectly reasonable choice for a museum curator.

Your whole premise that evocation is mediocre has no base other than you own personal "this is an optimal build". You don't know how Aarindarius uses magic. For all you know, evocation is ideally suited for his everyday life, and does not share your own personal, biased and subjective measure of what is and is not a good school of magic.

Grey Wolf

[Peelee]

[QUOTE=Grey_Wolf_c;24428082]For all you know, conjuration is ideally suited for his everyday life/QUOTE]

You mean evocation?

[Grey_Wolf_c]

For all you know, conjuration is ideally suited for his everyday life

You mean evocation?

Probably? Honestly, I can't tell them apart. Conjure and evoke are practically synonymous, after all.

conjure
1. cause (a spirit or ghost) to appear by means of a magic ritual.
"they hoped to conjure up the spirit of their dead friend"

evoke
2. invoke (a spirit or deity).
"Akasha is evoked in India when a house is being built to ensure its completion"

Grey Wolf

[Peelee]

Probably? Honestly, I can't tell them apart. Conjure and evoke are practically synonymous, after all.



Grey Wolf

Wizard and sorcerer are practically synonymous, but had distinct meanings in D&D, to be fair.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Wizard and sorcerer are practically synonymous, but had distinct meanings in D&D, to be fair.

Oh, I'm not suggesting that they aren't different in-game, just explaining why I got them flipped around. I know one is summon-magic and the other violent-explosions magic, but I couldn't say which one was which for the life of me.

GW

[hamishspence]

With support material, they can look very similar - with conjurers conjuring up elemental matter and throwing it at the target for massive damage.

A conjurer in the process of throwing Orbs of Fire will look a little like an evoker throwing Fireballs - even if they're mechanically different spells.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

With support material, they can look very similar - with conjurers conjuring up elemental matter and throwing it at the target for massive damage.

A conjurer in the process of throwing Orbs of Fire will look a little like an evoker throwing Fireballs - even if they're mechanically different spells.

...

Yeah, that's not really gonna help me remember which one is which, no.

Grey Wolf

[Fyraltari]

Conjuration etymologically carries the idea of "swearing an oath alongside somebody" con jur that somebody is your ally. Making it a fitting name for magics that summon allies for you.

Meanwhile evocation is an invocation but it starts with an "e" just like "explosion", which is fitting for a magic where your invocation blows stuff up.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

evocation [...] starts with an "e" just like "explosion"

OK, that's a rule of thumb I might be able to use down the line, fair enough.

(Prediction: in two weeks time, my brain will be "conjuration starts with 'c' just like 'conflagration', so that's the boom-magic")

Grey Wolf

[Morty]

The division between conjuration and evocation is blurry at the best of times. The fact that conjuration eventually got reliable direct damage spells didn't help and it cemented conjuration's status as strictly better than evocation. Conjuration is amazingly broad, while evocation just blows stuff up and occasionally has a force effect like Forcecage.

Of course, this all has little bearing on the comic. There's a clear meta reason for why V banned conjuration and optimal D&D caster tactics don't make for entertaining fight scenes or stories.

[KorvinStarmast]

The division between conjuration and evocation is blurry at the best of times.

It does not help that in at least one edition, Cure Wounds is an evocation spell. That blows up about ... nothing.
Let's see: in AD&D 1e, it's Cure light Wounds (Necromantic) Reversible ; In 5e it is Cure Wounds; 1st-level evocation ; and if I can get my 3.5 SRD open - Curer Light Wounds - Conjuration.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

It does not help that in at least one edition, Cure Wounds is an evocation spell. That blows up about ... nothing.

It blows up the opportunistic bacteria in the wound! It evokes a bunch of elemental water that fizzes weirdly, tastes funny and can make you sick if you drink too much of it.

Grey Wolf

[KorvinStarmast]

It blows up the opportunistic bacteria in the wound! It evokes a bunch of elemental water thatfizzes weirdly, tastes funny and can make you sick if you drink too much of it.

Grey Wolf

fizzes weirdly, tastes funny and can make you sick if you drink too much of it.
OOh, neat it summons champagne!
Wait, isn't that conjuration?

[Grey_Wolf_c]

fizzes weirdly, tastes funny and can make you sick if you drink too much of it.
OOh, neat it summons champagne!

Yeah, but it's not elemental water. Admittedly, maybe I should've quantified "too much" a bit more, since technically that is true of every liquid, eventually.

Grey Wolf

[KorvinStarmast]

Yeah, but it's not elemental water. Admittedly, maybe I should've quantified "too much" a bit more, since technically that is true of every liquid, eventually.

Grey Wolf

Yeah, we got a briefing IRL about water poisoning (something like 2.5 gallons in a day) when I was heading off to a desert ...

[Morty]

It does not help that in at least one edition, Cure Wounds is an evocation spell. That blows up about ... nothing.
Let's see: in AD&D 1e, it's Cure light Wounds (Necromantic) Reversible ; In 5e it is Cure Wounds; 1st-level evocation ; and if I can get my 3.5 SRD open - Curer Light Wounds - Conjuration.

...I didn't know that. Necromancy honestly makes more sense than conjuration, since you're dealing with energies of life and death. But evocation? It's bizarre, but in 5E also pretty academic as far as I know - there's not even a Spell Focus feat a cleric or bard could take.

But really, you could make a case for many spells being in many different schools, since it's magic, it's not real and we're making it up as we go. And in 3E, many spells got thrown in with conjuration on this principle.

[KorvinStarmast]

...I didn't know that. Necromancy honestly makes more sense than conjuration, since you're dealing with energies of life and death. But evocation? It's bizarre, but in 5E also pretty academic as far as I know - there's not even a Spell Focus feat a cleric or bard could take.

But really, you could make a case for many spells being in many different schools, since it's magic, it's not real and we're making it up as we go. And in 3E, many spells got thrown in with conjuration on this principle.

I will say that the added layer of (something) which is what became spell schools does it for me narratively (see the Swords and Sorcery book "Master of Five Magics" and its sequels) but given that I began in OD&D, I found "spell, cast, done" to suffice. Sure, it was fun having to swallow a live carp to cast identify in AD&D 1e, but a lot of people found that next level of granularity less appealing and ignored it.

Then again, it did create a market for bat guano.

[Ruck]

You all do realize that this simply boils down to The Giant not subscribing to the mindset exemplified by MunchkinsOnly’s choice of username, right?

I just realized what a funny username "MunchkinsOnly" is for this OP.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

I just realized what a funny username "MunchkinsOnly" is for this OP.

Given that the username seems to have been created exclusively to post this thread, it's not so much funny as appropriate.

Grey Wolf

[Ruck]

Given that the username seems to have been created exclusively to post this thread, it's not so much funny as appropriate.

Grey Wolf

Touché.

Yeah, we got a briefing IRL about water poisoning (something like 2.5 gallons in a day) when I was heading off to a desert ...

Is it that low? I'd heard it was more like 8 gallons in a day.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Touché.

Oh, no no no no. I'm staying a 2 meters from everyone else, right now. No touchéing for me.

Poké with a tén footé polé instead, I suppose.
(Yes, this last bit is just to make Fyraltari cry)
Grey Wolf

[The MunchKING]

Oh, I'm not suggesting that they aren't different in-game, just explaining why I got them flipped around. I know one is summon-magic and the other violent-explosions magic, but I couldn't say which one was which for the life of me.

GW

That's why Final Fantasy took the very reasonable approach of calling people that used IT'S Summoning Magic...

"Summoners"!!

[Grey_Wolf_c]

That's why Final Fantasy took the very reasonable approach of calling people that used IT'S Summoning Magic...

"Summoners"!!

That's just silly. Everyone knows that reusing words is the key to good gaming. "Oh, this corridor isn't quite level, so I'll take it to go a level down so I can level up my spell level, which is spelled L E V E L", after all.

Grey Wolf

[KorvinStarmast]

Touché.
Is it that low? I'd heard it was more like 8 gallons in a day.

The symptoms described (when one was in a hot environment and did not replace electrolytes but just drank water) was that at 2-2.5 gallons, ish, you can expect to seen the beginnings of the dilution of the body chemistry leading to various cells and functions that need electrolytes for nerves and such to talk to each other begin to break down. In some people they are in distress, others can't take the shock and expire.

I imagine 8 gallons would do for most people vis a vis three or four sigmas under the bell curve.

[Fyraltari]

OK, that's a rule of thumb I might be able to use down the line, fair enough.

Generally speaking, the dumber the mnemotechnic help, the easier it sticks with you. But since you have an interest in Rome and, unless I am mistaken, romance languages, I thought you would enjoy the conjuration but as well.

Oh, no no no no. I'm staying a 2 meters from everyone else, right now. No touchéing for me.

I think fencing happens far enough to count as social distancing.

Poké with a tén footé polé instead, I suppose.
(Yes, this last bit is just to make Fyraltari cry)
Grey Wolf

Why must you do this to me?
Oh, you lupine bastard*!

water poisoning

*Would that be a mutt?

[Peelee]

Poké with a tén footé polé instead, I suppose.
(Yes, this last bit is just to make Fyraltari cry)
Grey Wolf

It's very good, but I've already seen the pinnacle.

Spoiler: Tumbler user speaks French with one weird trick! Fyraltaris HATE her!

Show

[Fyraltari]

It's very good, but I've already seen the pinnacle.

Spoiler: Tumbler user speaks French with one weird trick! Fyraltaris HATE her!

Show

Spoiler: Breathe in, breathe out, breathe in..

Show

{scrubbed}

[Grey_Wolf_c]

But since you have an interest in Rome and, unless I am mistaken, romance languages, I thought you would enjoy the conjuration but as well.

"I hate them less than I hate English" is not really "an interest in".

Grey Wolf

[Jannoire]

Poké with a tén footé polé instead, I suppose.

Thanks for reminding me of why I love this forum so much!

I think fencing happens far enough to count as social distancing.

Plus you're wearing a mask and start swining a sword-like object if someone gets too close to you.