Midwest Mafia/Werewolf

[Unavenger]

Yeah, there's some others we haven't heard from, like rogue_alchemist, who I'd like to hear from.

[Xihirli]

I mean, pretty sure you're (jokingly) incriminating yourself there Mrs McGinty. Also, hi everyone!

Dive-bombing on a joke target to appear helpful so late in the day? CaoimhinTheCape just jumped to the top of my suspicion list.

[AvatarVecna]

Dive-bombing on a joke target to appear helpful so late in the day? CaoimhinTheCape just jumped to the top of my suspicion list.

I'm not sure posting 22 hours into a ~48 hour day constitutes "so late in the day" but to each their own I suppose.

[Xihirli]

It is sunset

[Lex-Kat]

p.s. Are we allowed to call the villains 'scum' here? I seem to recall someone having an issue with it once upon a time, but I'm going to find it hard not to do so given its ubiquity on the other sites I frequent.

That was me. How coincidental that my first game back, is also a game where someone recalls my particular issue. But it will no further be an issue, as I believe I have gotten over it. I think.

[CaoimhinTheCape]

I'm not sure posting 22 hours into a ~48 hour day constitutes "so late in the day" but to each their own I suppose.

Ehh, I mean, I felt I was posting late too. Day 1 feels a little different though, once Day 2 starts and the game is really going I'd agree with the logic (even if it's against me, haha).

[Valmark]

It is sunset

It's always sunset somewhere.

[Snowblaze]

Okay, vote count is up to date... firstly, @JeenLeen, your explanation makes sense, I guess. Although I'm definitely not taking your statement that you're town at face value.

On Mrs McGinty... well, that's an interesting strategy... and you're right, it's giving us plenty to analyse. I don't think they're particularly wolfish at the moment, since I feel like a wolf would stay under the radar a lot more.

I don't really see how CaoimhinTheCape (please tell me I spelt that right) is suspicious - they're new and it's understandable to vote for someone jokingly incriminating themselves.

And Xihirli was definitely bad in RAC, @Valmark. I will have my revenge for her betrayal. At some point. Probably not this game.

[CaoimhinTheCape]

I don't really see how CaohiminTheCape (please tell me I spelt that right) is suspicious - they're new and it's understandable to vote for someone jokingly incriminating themselves.

So close! It's technically Caoimhin (h comes later) but it usually gets shortened to either Cao or theCape. But as long as it's close enough, anything works!

Also, it's day 1 so I'm not super set on Mrs. McGinty being definitely bad? I just don't have any better vote yet.

[Valmark]

Should also offer info. While the reasoning is correct and indeed I plan to keep it in mind, there is to say that it could be a way to protect AV. If I'm not wrong McGinty was tied before the vote with AV which would make AV get lynched.

In case of a tie its first comes first lynched, right?

@Snow: We did try to off her the second night though.

[Snowblaze]

Yeah, because we thought she was an American traitor. I reserve the right to try and kill anyone I think has betrayed me (if I can actually do so. I established last game that I'm terrible at killing people.)

[Xihirli]

You guys totally betrayed me. I didn't betray you, I was never on your side. The betrayal is totally in your court, Snow.

[Snowblaze]

If you were never on my side I was never on your side, so neither of us betrayed the other. Plus, you know, you did want us all dead. And you assassinated our assassin.

[Valmark]

If you were never on our side we wouldn't have been able to betray you, though. It's your fault for conspiring behind our backs- if you hadn't we wouldn't have done it.

Literally because it was your lies to the american that made us suspect you, if I'm recalling correctly.

[Snowblaze]

...wait, are we talking about trying to kill her night two or lynching her later on?

Either way, the only reason we tried to kill you was because we thought you were plotting against us. Which you were.

[AvatarVecna]

Spoiler: Current Wagons

Show

AvatarVecna (1)
Aventine (1)
CaoimhinTheCape (1)
Duck999 (1)
JeenLeen (2)
Logan1996 (1)
Mrs. McGinty (4)
rogue_alchemist (1)
Snowblaze (2)

Poking Duck999. Joining a game for the first time in awhile then not posting? Clearly suspicious and certainly not a sign of being busy/sick/missing the thread-start!

Only a villain keeps track of wagon totals!

[Xihirli]

...wait, are we talking about trying to kill her night two or lynching her later on?

Either way, the only reason we tried to kill you was because we thought you were plotting against us. Which you were.

Or was I!?

[AvatarVecna]

Or was I!?

"Xihirli was plotting against us!"
"Or was I!?"

Yes. Yes you were, and yes you are. You're plotting against us right now, aren't you?!

[Valmark]

...wait, are we talking about trying to kill her night two or lynching her later on?

Either way, the only reason we tried to kill you was because we thought you were plotting against us. Which you were.

I was talking about night 2, when we weren't sure were her true allegiance lied. Lynching her later on was just our job :p


Regarding the game, I seem to have missed someone taking off their vote from AV. And I was somehow convinced we had four people at 2 votes. Mh. My headache is gone now, so maybe it was its fault.

[AvatarVecna]

I was talking about night 2, when we weren't sure were her true allegiance lied. Lynching her later on was just our job :p


Regarding the game, I seem to have missed someone taking off their vote from AV. And I was somehow convinced we had four people at 2 votes. Mh. My headache is gone now, so maybe it was its fault.

I mean, if I hadn't moved my vote from me to Duck, there'd still be three people at 2 votes, so that's something.

[gac3]

Wait...Weren't they both wolves last time? Your reasoning seems a little flawed.

Does that imply they can't be wolves this time? I didn't think we had anything to go off of yet and since I saw the way they played town, I feel a game where "power of persuasion" being the only factor, makes them dangerous if they are wolves.

FoS on gac3 for this:
1. As kgato pointed out both JeenLeen and I were wolves last game.

2. I didn’t trick everyone, I told the truth and left out the detail that I was a wolf.

3. ...are you implying I’m more of a trickster than AV? Because I’m not. (Yet.)

4. Voting for me on the grounds that I’m a good wolf doesn’t make much sense because there’s no evidence I am.

1. Is there some rule I didn't know about that means you won't be a wolf this time?

2. Yes but you were excellent at having everyone convinced you were not a wolf.

3. No but I've honestly not been around for AV to be a wolf so I have no experience with it.

4. There is no evidence anyone is a wolf yet so why not vote for people who would be dangerous as a wolf?

5. All that said Mrs. McGinty has been posting... Odd things i guess? Unsure if it is newness or wolfiness. Last time I accused newness, apparently I just hadn't played with the person yet

[Elenna]

*wanders vaguely in from the town of Not Actually Playing*

That was me. How coincidental that my first game back, is also a game where someone recalls my particular issue. But it will no further be an issue, as I believe I have gotten over it. I think.

IIRC that was mostly me, Lex, and Ramsus who didn't like the word "scum" (although if someone else has an issue feel free to speak up). Ramsus seems to have left the forum, and it didn't bother me when Mrs. McGinty used it this time so I guess I'm over it too???

Or was I!?

I mean... yes. Yes, you were.

*wanders back off into the sunset*

[Xihirli]

"Xihirli was plotting against us!"
"Or was I!?"

Yes. Yes you were, and yes you are. You're plotting against us right now, aren't you?!

Not necessarily.

Hi, Elenna!

[Valmark]

4. There is no evidence anyone is a wolf yet so why not vote for people who would be dangerous as a wolf?

Wouldn't someone good as a wolf be usually kinda good at town too? Seems to me that you are trying to get the good players dead, which is wolfish.

Ramsus seems to have left the forum

If it's the same Ramsus that I know then they are definitely active, though not in this section. Also hi Ele~<3

[Mrs McGinty]

5. All that said Mrs. McGinty has been posting... Odd things i guess? Unsure if it is newness or wolfiness.

Last time I accused newness, apparently I just hadn't played with the person yet

Like hypocrisy, inconsistency, and self-contradiction, being odd is much more often a sign of townishness than wolfishness in my experience.

4. There is no evidence anyone is a wolf yet so why not vote for people who would be dangerous as a wolf?

This would be a much better reason for voting me than the one you're currently going off.

I've won my last ~10 outings as a wolf, soloing three of them after the rest of my team were wiped out in the first couple of days, and almost never being in serious lynch contention - even at final three - in most of those games.

But one of the reasons I'm so hard to catch is that I never, ever post like this when I'm a wolf. A good rule of thumb is that if you can't see any reasons to suspect me on d1 (other than relative inactivity - the easiest way to avoid giving other reasons), that's when you should put me at the top of your suspect list.

:D

That was me. How coincidental that my first game back, is also a game where someone recalls my particular issue. But it will no further be an issue, as I believe I have gotten over it. I think.

IIRC that was mostly me, Lex, and Ramsus who didn't like the word "scum" (although if someone else has an issue feel free to speak up). Ramsus seems to have left the forum, and it didn't bother me when Mrs. McGinty used it this time so I guess I'm over it too???

Thanks.

I can assure you that whenever I call anyone an irredeemable scumbag it's done with the greatest respect and affection. In a game of random finger-pointing, where everyone is wrong nearly all of the time, it's important to remember that we're all just here to have fun.

[JeenLeen]

1. Is there some rule I didn't know about that means you won't be a wolf this time?

I don't think so. It sounds like most GMs/Narrators/whatever assign roles randomly. Or at least mostly randomly, e.g., might reserve a tricky role for an experienced player or give someone as wolf if they know they've never been wolf. But I think it was random number generator (RNG) for this game, so there's no reason to think Snowblaze or I are innocent just because we were wolves last game.

...I realize what I'm about to say might lend credence to folk thinking I'm a wolf, but I find it funny in that, now that I finally am Town, I feel like acting how I acted in my first game, when I was a wolf (and did it horribly).
So, here's my town-statement that will probably make me look like a wolf trying too hard to look town: "And, since I'm incriminating myself by stating that (or at least, removing one reason to NOT vote for me), I must be Town. A wolf wouldn't do that."

But, more honestly, if I'm a D1 or D2 lynch, I reckon it will yield some intel for the Town. So I'm cool with that. Though McGinty is looking mighty odd right now, and I'll probably join the bandwagon on them if the votes on me increase, for self-preservation purposes. (Especially since one vote on her is from herself, so in practical terms she just has 3 votes on her. Unless she pulls an AV and stays on the bandwagon against herself.)

[Mrs McGinty]

Welcome to my towncore, JeenLeen. Being explainy in the first place was slightly suspect, but now I'm starting to see how your brain works, it makes sense from town.

Now let's go with...

Valmark

Do you have much experience as scum?

[JeenLeen]

Something that just struck me as odd: kgato's post here, which I'm finding hard to quote and keep the context so I"m linking to.

kgato, Snowblaze, and I were all wolves last game. So his statement, not mentioning himself as part of trio, seems odd.
But, if he were wolf, probably not something he'd mention in the first place since it'd be risky in that it could draw attention to him if someone pointed that out. So, despite the oddness, maybe townish? Or wolf appearing town-helpful? That gets into WIFOM. So I'll let more experienced Mafia-analyst delve into that post.

---

ALSO (and maybe this is a question for flat_footed): forum rules prohibit 'past baggage' from other threads carrying forward. It seems that, in practice, "baggage" in the sense of knowledge of play styles and past actions is acceptable in these Mafia games. Does anyone know if the question was ever formally asked?
And now I'm going back to working.

[Mrs McGinty]

Something that just struck me as odd: kgato's post here, which I'm finding hard to quote and keep the context so I"m linking to.

kgato, Snowblaze, and I were all wolves last game. So his statement, not mentioning himself as part of trio, seems odd.
But, if he were wolf, probably not something he'd mention in the first place since it'd be risky in that it could draw attention to him if someone pointed that out. So, despite the oddness, maybe townish? Or wolf appearing town-helpful? That gets into WIFOM. So I'll let more experienced Mafia-analyst delve into that post.

Immediately justifying that towncore status, JL. (edit: To be clear, it's the thought-process that I like as townie; the conclusions matter little at this point, since we have no data for reference.)

I don't know about the not mentioning himself bit, but that post from kgato could certainly be one a wolf would make.

(Had to remove the link because I don't have enough posts lol.)

[AvatarVecna]

Wouldn't someone good as a wolf be usually kinda good at town too? Seems to me that you are trying to get the good players dead, which is wolfish.

It's not a bad strategy, as much as a bad tactic. It's more or less random chance whether the "Good Player" of the current crop is on your team or not, so lynching them isn't about keeping them from dominating the current game as much as seeing how the game progresses without their specific flavor of interference. Playing against a really good player means losing without really having much idea why, and winning alongside a really good player means winning without really having much idea why. Thus, to improve yourself as a long-term player, there is value in refocusing your strategy not on getting your own team to win, but on getting that player specifically to lose, so you can see what a game's like when it's going bad for them. One kinda-cheap way to do that is to just bandwagon them early in the game (D1 if possible) so they can interfere as little as possible and you can see what a game is like without them.

If you've seen what a game is like with (for example) Murska playing wolf and villager to victory, remove Murska from the player pool on the grounds that it's Murska, and now you get to see how a game goes without them. You can see what people do when they don't have Murska to lean on or play against, you can see what strategies Murska normally uses that they don't, or what strategies they use that Murska doesn't, and then you can maybe analyze why. And nobody will get bent out of shape for you voting the really good player because voting for Murska on the off-chance he's a wolf is just generally good sense anyway.

Of course, voting for Murska regardless can maybe be a good way to get Murska to stop playing - and also means, statistically speaking, both you and Murska are villagers and you just shot yourself in the foot to maybe learn how to become a slightly better player after the game ends. So it's a good strategy for getting better at WW/Mafia in general, maybe, but it's not necessarily a great tactic for winning the game you're currently playing.

If it's the same Ramsus that I know then they are definitely active, though not in this section. Also hi Ele~<3

That's my understanding too. I occasionally get messages from Ramsus about WW stuff, but mostly I see her in various D&D 5e recruitment threads.