What if we have this book's structure backwards?

[TheNecrocomicon]

Seven strips in as of this writing, and the Order has already finished uneventfully scouting out the area where they intend to confront Xykon and Redcloak.

Why do I get the sneaking suspicion that we're going to get an Order vs. Team Evil showdown way sooner than we would expect the formal "climax" of the book to be?

Bear in mind that in the previous book, the vampire (I call him Lurkon) was clearly the prime antagonist (at least on the Material Plane), and yet, we got Roy leaping down into the Godsmoot to engage him in a duel relatively early (a fifth to a quarter) of the way into the book. Of course, it was inconclusive, but that was the point -- it set the table for the pursuit to dwarven lands and the climactic showdowns that happened there.

The Order's only real "goal" at this point is to find Xykon and Redcloak, take Xykon down, and strike a bargain with Redcloak to comply with the plan that Thor laid out for Durkon. That's about it. They know the IFCC are cooking something, but have as little idea as we do as to when or how they'll intervene. As far as I know, they don't really have a clue about O'Chul working to pry the Monster away from Team Evil's dominion. They have absolutely no idea about the invisible folks who carried off Lien and O'Chul, only that the two are gone.

Dramatic convention would seem to indicate that things will only get messier, more complicated and more perilous as time goes by. Right now, "take down Xykon" is relatively straightforward as goals go (though by no means simple or easy, as the characters know full well). I get the sense that the Order is going to attempt that reasonably early, but things will go horribly off the rails as soon as they do, and they'll have to regroup and wind their way through all the curves that get thrown into the mix.

[hroþila]

It seems to me that without something unexpected throwing the Order off course the plot can't possibly fill a whole book, unless we have a fight scene worthy of Dragon Ball Z. Something unexpected is undoubtedly going to happen, to allow the rest of the plot to take place. The Order fighting Team Evil early and that fight radically changing the rest of the story is as plausible a possibility as any.

[Schroeswald]

It seems to me that without something unexpected throwing the Order off course the plot can't possibly fill a whole book, unless we have a fight scene worthy of Dragon Ball Z. Something unexpected is undoubtedly going to happen, to allow the rest of the plot to take place. The Order fighting Team Evil early and that fight radically changing the rest of the story is as plausible a possibility as any.

It'll steal something else from Dragon Ball Z (and lots of other anime) and have a tournament arc! Every living and unliving character will be thrown into a tournament by Kermit and Scooter and have to fight it out!

[TheNecrocomicon]

It seems to me that without something unexpected throwing the Order off course the plot can't possibly fill a whole book, unless we have a fight scene worthy of Dragon Ball Z. Something unexpected is undoubtedly going to happen, to allow the rest of the plot to take place. The Order fighting Team Evil early and that fight radically changing the rest of the story is as plausible a possibility as any.

Pretty much. I think Mr. Burlew said at some point that this final book is easily the longest of the bunch (might need some Banana help here), and that makes it implausible to me that one battle-royale between the Order and Team Evil could possibly fill it all out, even if they take their time scouting and getting into position beforehand.

Maybe they could take a sharp left turn and go investigate the paladin disappearances first, but that seems unlikely with the fate of the world still hanging in the balance and their ultimate enemies (that they know of) close at hand. Seems to me that the Order might just assume that Team Evil took the two hostage or killed them and forge ahead despite it.

[woweedd]

We finally get to see the planet inside the planet, mayhaps?

[NerdyKris]

The story was never going to come down to the Order and Team Evil in a throw down fight. Ever since the planet was revealed, there's been theories that the last book is going to deal with that, not the fight.

Plot wise, we have

• The mysterious voices
• The planet
• Thor's plan
• Redcloak's mechanations against Xykon
• The Astral fortress
• Vaarsuivus's two remaining time outs
• The IFCC's plan
• What happened to Serini

And from a long ago commentary in one of the books:

Spoiler: Prequel spoiler?

Show

The story of why the Order of the Scribble split up, which was said to be an important part of the main plot and wouldn't be a prequel book. It's also probably not going to be a lore dump if it's important.

[TRH]

And from a long ago commentary in one of the books:

Spoiler: Prequel spoiler?

Show

The story of why the Order of the Scribble split up, which was said to be an important part of the main plot and wouldn't be a prequel book. It's also probably not going to be a lore dump if it's important.

Hasn't that been explained already? Soon ordered Dorukan and Lirian to close the last rift before Kraagor was clear of the Snarl, and those two and Girard never forgave him for it, it sounds like.

[Schroeswald]

Hasn't that been explained already? Soon ordered Dorukan and Lirian to close the last rift before Kraagor was clear of the Snarl, and those two and Girard never forgave him for it, it sounds like.

I'm pretty sure he's posted something about it on the forums or somewhere, so well, SUMMON BANANA V!

[B. Dandelion]

The Order of the Scribble remarks were from the Geekademia interview he did in 2012. Which is part of the Index right now, in part 5.

Jesse: Do you think you may do a prequel book about the Order of the Scribble someday, or is that not something you're sure about?

Rich: I wouldn't rule it out, but I don't currently have any plans to and I wouldn't know what I would do with it. I think the main thrust of their story needs to be included in the online strip. You need to know exactly what happened all that time ago that made them so angry at each other in order to understand the main story. So therefore I wouldn't want to shunt it to a side book. When it needs to be told, it needs to be front and center, and then once it's been told, it'll influence what people think about the characters after that.

So I wouldn't want it to be. . . I had told much of the story, much of the things that Redcloak revealed to Tsukiko in the recent strip about how he was tricking Xykon was already known by people who had read Start of Darkness. But it didn't sort of change what was going to happen next for them to have known it separately. But anything about the Order of the Scribble isn't really like that. It's important in a way that would change things, and therefore it can't be let out of the bag early.

[Jasdoif]

Pretty much. I think Mr. Burlew said at some point that this final book is easily the longest of the bunch (might need some Banana help here)

I think that's bit of a stretch on this being the last book regardless of the size the book will end up being.

Yeah, it'll be seven, even if the last one looks like a phone book.

[Gnoman]

I could buy it coming to an early showdown between the order and Team Evil, with Xykon getting dusted but Durkon pointedly insisting that they allow Redcloak to escape. Then we go to an extended Gobbtopia plot and the Order starts the "reseal the Gates and try to get Redcloak on board" thing.


Not saying that that is how it is going to go, but it is plausible.

[Schroeswald]

I think that's bit of a stretch on this being the last book regardless of the size the book will end up being.

While I won't say that this is anything close to confirmation on it being real long, I do think thats the implication, considering Rich did have the general plot of OOTS down at that point and so I imagine would know if this book was gonna be real long.

I could buy it coming to an early showdown between the order and Team Evil, with Xykon getting dusted but Durkon pointedly insisting that they allow Redcloak to escape. Then we go to an extended Gobbtopia plot and the Order starts the "reseal the Gates and try to get Redcloak on board" thing.


Not saying that that is how it is going to go, but it is plausible.

I don't think this is how its gonna go, because Redcloak still needs Xykon for his mission, and once he's destroyed we are also dealing with Redcloak having to destroy the phylactery with Xykon still in it and so his motivations have all completely changed (also I think that Xykon is gonna be the final big bad because it feels right, also I think that Rich said something like the main conflict of OOTS was the Order v. Xykon).

[NerdyKris]

I think that's bit of a stretch on this being the last book regardless of the size the book will end up being.

Are you saying this isn't the last book? Because we're in Book 7 right now.

[Jasdoif]

Are you saying this isn't the last book? Because we're in Book 7 right now.

I'm saying the Giant didn't say this book will be "easily the longest of the bunch".

[137beth]

At the end of UD, the news announcement said that book seven could had the "potential" be longer than books 5 or 6.

Today's comic is the last for this volume, and as usual, I'll be taking a little bit of a hiatus before starting the new story. In addition to general planning and writing that I would be doing to prepare, I also need to take a little bit of extra care because this next arc will be the final volume in the Order of the Stick saga and I want to make sure I have all my proverbial ducks in a row for the big finale. Don't get too worried that the comic is about to end, though. The last two books took five years each, and this final book has the potential to be even longer than either one of them. So there will be years and years of OOTS left, even as the story is headed toward a conclusion.

[CriticalFailure]

The thing about the Scribble makes me think that what they were so mad about involved seeing that something weird was going on in the rift and Soon deciding to shut the rift anyways. It likely involved Kraagor getting trapped on the other side of the rift or something, in the world in the rift. It seems likely the Order will end up investigating the world in the rift or something.

[ebarde]

While Team Evil are probably not the final boss, they are way too important to be ultimately defeated this early. I honestly do think they'll stick around until the finale, although probably in some more minor capacity

[TheNecrocomicon]

While Team Evil are probably not the final boss, they are way too important to be ultimately defeated this early. I honestly do think they'll stick around until the finale, although probably in some more minor capacity

I'm not saying necessarily "being defeated" this early.

It just makes me think that there will be a major clash between the Order and Team Evil in the near future. I don't think it'll be a conclusive "victory" for anyone. Right now, the Order just think that it will be a straightforward us-versus-them battle royale. That tends to indicate that it will go wildly off the rails instead.

I suspect that the Order could do well enough to cause Team Evil to finally fracture between their diverging agendas, but not enough to actually end them. Meanwhile, the Order get confronted with a whole bunch of new problems that they didn't see coming, like the IFCC, the invisible whatevers, and so forth.

[Brumagris]

Seven strips in as of this writing, and the Order has already finished uneventfully scouting out the area where they intend to confront Xykon and Redcloak.

Why do I get the sneaking suspicion that we're going to get an Order vs. Team Evil showdown way sooner than we would expect the formal "climax" of the book to be?

Bear in mind that in the previous book, the vampire (I call him Lurkon) was clearly the prime antagonist (at least on the Material Plane), and yet, we got Roy leaping down into the Godsmoot to engage him in a duel relatively early (a fifth to a quarter) of the way into the book. Of course, it was inconclusive, but that was the point -- it set the table for the pursuit to dwarven lands and the climactic showdowns that happened there.

The Order's only real "goal" at this point is to find Xykon and Redcloak, take Xykon down, and strike a bargain with Redcloak to comply with the plan that Thor laid out for Durkon. That's about it. They know the IFCC are cooking something, but have as little idea as we do as to when or how they'll intervene. As far as I know, they don't really have a clue about O'Chul working to pry the Monster away from Team Evil's dominion. They have absolutely no idea about the invisible folks who carried off Lien and O'Chul, only that the two are gone.

Dramatic convention would seem to indicate that things will only get messier, more complicated and more perilous as time goes by. Right now, "take down Xykon" is relatively straightforward as goals go (though by no means simple or easy, as the characters know full well). I get the sense that the Order is going to attempt that reasonably early, but things will go horribly off the rails as soon as they do, and they'll have to regroup and wind their way through all the curves that get thrown into the mix.

I hope I don't recall it wrongly, but aren't the OOTS and Team Evil actually the 2 parties most actively interested in the world not being destroyed? I wouldn't rule out a truce to tackle potential common enemies - IFCC, invisible guys... -
Now with the MITD maturing and taking use of his execeptional intelligence+diplomacy, we can even consider him taking a very active part towards putting both teams together to reach this common goal.

Thus, bringing the unexpected twist and extra pages

[Snails]

The thing about the Scribble makes me think that what they were so mad about involved seeing that something weird was going on in the rift and Soon deciding to shut the rift anyways. It likely involved Kraagor getting trapped on the other side of the rift or something, in the world in the rift. It seems likely the Order will end up investigating the world in the rift or something.

Given the weird effects that touched Laurini in the desert, driving Xykon from this last Gate does not solve the crisis. The gods might actually blow up the world anyway, if the Snarl's power seeps into this world in a manner that cannot be dealt with, by some means.

There are two huge holes in the prison wall, right now. I doubt they will be fixed by V and Durkon casting Greater Mend together.

[Emanick]

Given the weird effects that touched Laurini in the desert, driving Xykon from this last Gate does not solve the crisis. The gods might actually blow up the world anyway, if the Snarl's power seeps into this world in a manner that cannot be dealt with, by some means.

There are two huge holes in the prison wall, right now. I doubt they will be fixed by V and Durkon casting Greater Mend together.

Realistically, there are probably four huge holes in the prison wall now. If the destruction of the smallest Gate created a rift large enough to block out the sun over Azure City, I hate to think of how large the other rifts are by now.

If Xykon is killed, there will probably be a way to stabilize things somehow, at least temporarily - there's probably some way that the Order could find to reconstruct the Gates, especially since they may be able to have some divine assistance - but without getting Redcloak on the same page, that's really only a short-term solution.

[Peelee]

Realistically, there are probably four huge holes in the prison wall now. If the destruction of the smallest Gate created a rift large enough to block out the sun over Azure City, I hate to think of how large the other rifts are by now.

There is no reason to think they are bigger than the rift above Gobbotopia.

[Schroeswald]

There is no reason to think they are bigger than the rift above Gobbotopia.

Yes there is, that doesn’t mean we know it for sure but the facts that they started out bigger and had more time to grow are reasons to think they might be bigger.

[hamishspence]

Redcloak speculates that the rift's unravelling was "jump-started" by Miko:

https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0544.html

[Schroeswald]

Redcloak speculates that the rift's unravelling was "jump-started" by Miko:

https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0544.html

The other gates probably would have been jump-started too, it wasn't unique to Miko, it was because the gate that was holding it together was destroyed, so the fire, explosion, and Roy all would have jumpstarted the growth of the other 3 rifts.

[Jannoire]

Redcloak also theorized that the rift over Azure City would stop its growth after some time. That implies that there is a limit to how big a rift will grow before stopping.

That's why I think every rift will grow to the same size, if given enough time. The initial difference in size might be explained, if we assume different times between the forming of a rift and its closing by the Scribblers.

[DeliaP]

Here's an interesting thought: we're expecting the planet-in-the-rift to be involved and be explained somehow.

But the only way the planet-in-the-rift will be visible or present at Serini's gate is if the gate gets Krakatoomed.

But if the last gate gets Krakatoomed, the Gods will immediately pull the plug on the world.

So the last gate won't get Krakatoomed.

So for the planet in the rift to get involved the story will *have* to shift back to some of the other rifts.

So the plot can't stick at Serini's gate for the whole book....

[Snails]

So the plot can't stick at Serini's gate for the whole book....

"Can't" might be stating the case overly strongly, as there are adequately logical paths for it to all wrap up at Serini's Gate. But I am not seeing it as very likely that the two giant holes will turn out to be a minor inconvenience, no.

[Jannoire]

Further, the gods didn't decide on wiping the world, as the Godsmoot is still on hold until a large enough tree has been found and slain

[DeliaP]

Further, the gods didn't decide on wiping the world, as the Godsmoot is still on hold until a large enough tree has been found and slain

The current Godsmoot vote is on whether to unmake the world *before* the last gate is destroyed.

As Loki states, if the last rift is opened, the Gods expect to have ten to fifteen minutes before the Snarl gets free, and apparently this is plenty of time for them to pull the plug.

The comic does indicate the Gods still need to agree to unmake the world in that eventuality, I'm not sure why any of the Gods would be choosing not to?

Although, I suppose it is conceivable that the Godsmoot rules are so arcane and stupid that they can't decide to move on to new question (eg. "Pull the plug NOW? <zot, zot,... zot> Yes, Yes... Yes! OK, GO !!!") until the existing question is settled. But after all the worlds they've had to unmake so far, I can't imagine a similar situation hasn't occurred before, leading to an introduction of a new rule ("OK, Rule 162: In the event of a imminent snarl escape all existing questions suspended and replaced by the immediate question Pull the plug NOW?")