What if we have this book's structure backwards?

[Gnoman]

More likely, the existing protocol is "THE SNARL IS ESCAPING! PUSH THE BUTTON! PUSH THE BUTTON NOW!", with no discussion desired or permitted.

[hroþila]

About demolishing the world in those 10-15 minutes, I believe it probably isn't as safe as Loki says, in light of what Hel said here ("You can't stop the Snarl from devouring this world with procedural rules. You can't stop it at all! Any day now, all your precious swindlers and cutthroats will be wiped out, just like they always are". If it were that simple and there was no or very little risk, some of the gods would have had little reason to vote Yes.

[Savil]

Since Team Evil returns from their dungeon crawls pretty much depleted, it is really a good opportunity from the storytelling perspective to initiate a showdown where Team Evil would have to retreat.

[Kelenius]

What if

• Order decides to wait until Xykon&co return from the cave to attack them.
• Xykon&co head into a cave and don't return for a long time.
• Order has to chase them down.

[Emanick]

What if

• Order decides to wait until Xykon&co return from the cave to attack them.
• Xykon&co head into a cave and don't return for a long time.
• Order has to chase them down.

This may, in fact, be what happens. It makes both tactical and dramatic sense.

I expect something else to happen first, to prevent the climax of the story from coming too soon, but it might happen eventually.

[SlashDash]

I agree that too much is left open for things to end up here.
I also still say it's extremely unlikely we've heard the last of the vector legion. Surely after seeing how things ended in the desert, we haven't heard the last of them.

Also, Hinjo has to show up as well. We still have that prophecy about

Spoiler: Book

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Belkar needs to save Hinjo again. So Hinjo has to step up to the action. It can't be in the epilogue.

I also have a hunch the Oracle will make an appearance in this book as well.


So if we assume we're not going to be staying here and Roy just stated that they can't destroy the gate, it only leaves two possibilities:
1) The gate isn't here at all. Unlikely
2) The gate is here, but isn't going to stay here for very long.
Why? Because it will be moved.

I'm also still holding my original guess :
Hel will send her last remaining vampire to the north pole with the job of splitting Redcloak and Xykon.

It simply fits things so neatly.
Xykon has repeatedly stated how his full respect is for the undead, so he'll like a vampire cleric more than a goblin one.
We know the ritual needs arcane and divine magic. So another cleric could do the trick, provided that Hel can grant Curly something like Redcloak has.


So Curly shows up, manages to kick Redcloak out of team evil, Xykon does some ritual with her that moves the gate - most likely to Xykon's astral fortress (It's bound to appear since Thor hinted at it)

Then the order is going to run after them to stop them.

[CriticalFailure]

I agree that too much is left open for things to end up here.
I also still say it's extremely unlikely we've heard the last of the vector legion. Surely after seeing how things ended in the desert, we haven't heard the last of them.

Tarquin seems to be slated not to have an important role in the story though, that's how Elan defeated him. By writing him out.

Also, Hinjo has to show up as well. We still have that prophecy about

Spoiler: Book

Show

Belkar needs to save Hinjo again. So Hinjo has to step up to the action. It can't be in the epilogue.

I wonder if Belkar saving Hinjo again and Belkar being not long for this world are related. Maybe he will sacrifice himself saving Hinjo or something.

I also have a hunch the Oracle will make an appearance in this book as well.

So if we assume we're not going to be staying here and Roy just stated that they can't destroy the gate, it only leaves two possibilities:
1) The gate isn't here at all. Unlikely
2) The gate is here, but isn't going to stay here for very long.
Why? Because it will be moved.

I'm also still holding my original guess :
Hel will send her last remaining vampire to the north pole with the job of splitting Redcloak and Xykon.

It simply fits things so neatly.
Xykon has repeatedly stated how his full respect is for the undead, so he'll like a vampire cleric more than a goblin one.
We know the ritual needs arcane and divine magic. So another cleric could do the trick, provided that Hel can grant Curly something like Redcloak has.


So Curly shows up, manages to kick Redcloak out of team evil, Xykon does some ritual with her that moves the gate - most likely to Xykon's astral fortress (It's bound to appear since Thor hinted at it)

Then the order is going to run after them to stop them.

Xykon can't do the ritual with just any cleric. The divine half of the ritual is imparted to the High Priest of The Dark One by the Crimson Mantle itself. Xykon is either sticking with Redcloak or he's giving the cloak to another goblinoid and helping them grind to high enough level to cast the ritual. I doubt Xykon really has the patience to want to mentor a random goblinoid to a higher level and Redcloak is the one who deals with Team Evil's logistics and planning anyways. Xykon doesn't actually respect undead as individuals, he just thinks biology is gross and that he is better than the icky mortals.

[Peelee]

Tarquin seems to be slated not to have an important role in the story though, that's how Elan defeated him. By writing him out.

Exactly! "How things ended in the desert" is why they were able to defeat him in the first place! The rest of his fall will take place entirely off-panel, IMO.

[CriticalFailure]

We could see him in a montage or a page of summary or exposition with another character relating how they defeated him at the end or something. Agree his days of affecting the plot are over.

[littlebum2002]

Exactly! "How things ended in the desert" is why they were able to defeat him in the first place! The rest of his fall will take place entirely off-panel, IMO.

I think this is the only possible way it could work out. As Tarquin pointed out, even if Elan defeats him, he still wins. So the only way for Taquin to "lose" the game he has been playing his whole life is to be defeated off-screen as a nobody, so that others aren't inspired to take up his cause after him.

[Shale]

Exactly! "How things ended in the desert" is why they were able to defeat him in the first place! The rest of his fall will take place entirely off-panel, IMO.

I thought this too, but we do have the commentary in Utterly Dwarfed where Rich says, flat out, that one of the things he will tie up in the final book is

Spoiler

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Elan's plan to bring down Tarquin's empire(s).

[Ron Miel]

I'm saying the Giant didn't say this book will be "easily the longest of the bunch".

I don't understand, that's pretty much what he did say. Not in those precise words, but the same meaning.

[Mic_128]

I thought this too, but we do have the commentary in Utterly Dwarfed where Rich says, flat out, that one of the things he will tie up in the final book is

Spoiler

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Elan's plan to bring down Tarquin's empire(s).

That doesn't mean it can't happen off-screen. Elan had a plan and gave it to Haley's father. We could easily see in the epilogue Tarquin behind bars or something, livid about his defeat while Haley and her dad reunite.

Also, Hinjo has to show up as well. We still have that prophecy about

Spoiler: Book

Show

Belkar needs to save Hinjo again. So Hinjo has to step up to the action. It can't be in the epilogue.

.

When was that prophecy? I don't recall that one.

I'm also still holding my original guess :
Hel will send her last remaining vampire to the north pole with the job of splitting Redcloak and Xykon.

It simply fits things so neatly.
Xykon has repeatedly stated how his full respect is for the undead, so he'll like a vampire cleric more than a goblin one.
We know the ritual needs arcane and divine magic. So another cleric could do the trick, provided that Hel can grant Curly something like Redcloak has.

I can't see that working.

1. Hel doesn't know about The Dark One's plan.
2. Even if she did, why would she give Xykon a vampire who will complete a ritual to let The Dark One have the ability to shift the portal?
3. She doesn't want to mess with the Snarl, she's just as vulnerable to it as any of the gods. She just wants the world destroyed so she gets all the dwarven souls be default.

[Peelee]

I thought this too, but we do have the commentary in Utterly Dwarfed where Rich says, flat out, that one of the things he will tie up in the final book is

Spoiler

Show

Elan's plan to bring down Tarquin's empire(s).

That's easily doable with people talking about how it was resolved off-panel. Though I should admit I can also see it happening on-panel in flashback form.

I don't understand, that's pretty much what he did say. Not in those precise words, but the same meaning.

No. He said it will be the last book, regardless of length. Which does not mean it will be the longest, just that it can, because it's not getting split.

[Roland Itiative]

At the bare minimum, we have Xykon, Redcloak (counting them together as a single "Team Evil" entity seems reductionist at this point), the IFCC and the Snarl itself to deal with as antagonists. Possibly we may have to deal with the Dark One as a separate "team" from Redcloak (if he ends up deciding his plan B is more worthwhile than plan A), the Vector Legion (who were last seen messing around with the Snarl around Girard's Rift) and Sabine (who may betray the IFCC for her own interests). That's excluding the possibility of new characters being introduced to the conflict, which has been a constant throughout the series.

As far as locations go, we have Kraagor's Gate, but also Xykon's Astral Plane Fortress and the Planet-inside-the-Rifts yet to fully explore, and we can possibly add Gobbotopia and the other Rift locations in general, depending on what direction the conflict goes towards.

This book was never going to be straightfoward, the Order just doesn't know, or hasn't planned, for all the conflict that is about to happen, and think dealing with Xykon is enough.

[TheNecrocomicon]

As far as locations go, we have Kraagor's Gate, but also Xykon's Astral Plane Fortress and the Planet-inside-the-Rifts yet to fully explore, and we can possibly add Gobbotopia and the other Rift locations in general, depending on what direction the conflict goes towards.

This book was never going to be straightforward, the Order just doesn't know, or hasn't planned, for all the conflict that is about to happen, and think dealing with Xykon is enough.

Basically this.

And the more strips Roy spends talking about how the Order are going to go at this step-by-step and take down Team Evil, the more severe the flying-off-the-rails is likely to be, by dramatic convention.

[CriticalFailure]

Basically this.

And the more strips Roy spends talking about how the Order are going to go at this step-by-step and take down Team Evil, the more severe the flying-off-the-rails is likely to be, by dramatic convention.

Yeah Roy clearly hasn’t learned from Elan. It seems likely that things will change in really large unexpected ways. I wonder if they will actually do well but Team Evil will end up retreating or something, though that could make their eventual victory less dramatic.

[TheNecrocomicon]

Yeah Roy clearly hasn’t learned from Elan. It seems likely that things will change in really large unexpected ways. I wonder if they will actually do well but Team Evil will end up retreating or something, though that could make their eventual victory less dramatic.

Or just some kind of stalemate -- after all, it worked in the last book, where Roy might have gotten the upper hand on Lurkon, before shenanigans were revealed and all the reinforcements stormed the Godsmoot chamber and the chase went on to the dwarven lands.

Either Team Evil or the Order might get the upper hand in a fight, but there are forces beyond either of their measures preparing plots they know nothing about. The IFCC has had two days now (assuming time runs the same across planes) to prepare whatever fiendish artifact-powered devilry they're planning, and there's the invisible creatures who carried off the paladins, and probably more besides.

Something might even happen that averts or indefinitely delays the Order vs. Team Evil showdown, especially if Durkon's Sending or something else puts them in contact with the powerful invisible entities and they learn something that gives them pause or diverts them to some other pressing need.

[CriticalFailure]

Or just some kind of stalemate -- after all, it worked in the last book, where Roy might have gotten the upper hand on Lurkon, before shenanigans were revealed and all the reinforcements stormed the Godsmoot chamber and the chase went on to the dwarven lands.

Either Team Evil or the Order might get the upper hand in a fight, but there are forces beyond either of their measures preparing plots they know nothing about. The IFCC has had two days now (assuming time runs the same across planes) to prepare whatever fiendish artifact-powered devilry they're planning, and there's the invisible creatures who carried off the paladins, and probably more besides.

Something might even happen that averts or indefinitely delays the Order vs. Team Evil showdown, especially if Durkon's Sending or something else puts them in contact with the powerful invisible entities and they learn something that gives them pause or diverts them to some other pressing need.

Yeah it seems headed for a complicated situation with multiple parties. We could end up with a situation where the Order looks like they have the upper hand with new allies or something but Xykon escapes and must be defeated later.

[Mariele]

About demolishing the world in those 10-15 minutes, I believe it probably isn't as safe as Loki says, in light of what Hel said here ("You can't stop the Snarl from devouring this world with procedural rules. You can't stop it at all! Any day now, all your precious swindlers and cutthroats will be wiped out, just like they always are". If it were that simple and there was no or very little risk, some of the gods would have had little reason to vote Yes.

Maybe they're just afraid Redcloak's plan would work and they wouldn't be able to interfere with that?

By the way, I like the ideas this thread has been coming up with. OP's post sounds fun and dramatic.