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  1. - Top - End - #1
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    GnomeWizardGuy

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    Default Level adjustment +1/+2 for wizard

    Hi everyone. I’m gonna run an high optimization campaign with a wizard, and there is the possibility of everyone playing with level adjustment. So I’m looking for the best/your favourite races for a wizard, LA+1 or max LA+2

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    Titan in the Playground
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    Default Re: Level adjustment +1/+2 for wizard

    Half-Giant is +1 LA, and apply Primordial Giant from Secrets of Xen'drik for +0 LA. That's a net Str -2, Dex -2, Con +0, Int +4, Wis +0, Cha +4, and being able to use Invisibility as an at-will spell-like ability, on top of all the other traits and qualities both of those grant.

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    GnomeWizardGuy

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    Default Re: Level adjustment +1/+2 for wizard

    Quote Originally Posted by Biffoniacus_Furiou View Post
    Half-Giant is +1 LA, and apply Primordial Giant from Secrets of Xen'drik for +0 LA. That's a net Str -2, Dex -2, Con +0, Int +4, Wis +0, Cha +4, and being able to use Invisibility as an at-will spell-like ability, on top of all the other traits and qualities both of those grant.
    Well this is some gooood stuff. Gonna check it out

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    GnomeWizardGuy

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    Default Re: Level adjustment +1/+2 for wizard

    Quote Originally Posted by Biffoniacus_Furiou View Post
    Half-Giant is +1 LA, and apply Primordial Giant from Secrets of Xen'drik for +0 LA. That's a net Str -2, Dex -2, Con +0, Int +4, Wis +0, Cha +4, and being able to use Invisibility as an at-will spell-like ability, on top of all the other traits and qualities both of those grant.
    I‘ve looked for it but I don’t understand. Can you link the sources and explain why it is like you say? The versions I’ve found must be different

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    AvatarVecna's Avatar

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    Default Re: Level adjustment +1/+2 for wizard

    Vecna-Blooded is popular for divination spell/effect immunity and getting knowledge of you erased from the universe. It's LA +1 but requires you to have a few levels under your belt.

    Half-Fey is LA +2 and might be extremely good. You get fey type, fly speed twice as fast as your best base speed, Dex +2/Con -2/Wis +2/Cha +4, arguably some neat SLAs (maybe just the HD 1 ones, I'm not sure how HD-based template SLAs work), and my favorite, explicit immunity to enchantment spells/effects. Yeah, it's probably meant to be "you're Fey type, so you're not affected by Charm Person anymore", but that's not what the mechanic says.


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    Default Re: Level adjustment +1/+2 for wizard

    Quote Originally Posted by Mrark View Post
    I‘ve looked for it but I don’t understand. Can you link the sources and explain why it is like you say? The versions I’ve found must be different
    Half-Giant has the giant creature type, which is required for the template. It's a +1 LA, but it's pretty much the lowest LA you can get the giant creature type for. That gets +2 Str, -2 Dex, ++2 Con.

    The book Secrets of Xen'drik, on page 81, has Creating a Primordial Giant. That gets -4 Str, -2 Con, +4 Int, +4 Cha, and a number of other benefits, including your choice of one of three spells as a spell-like ability that's usable at will. The caster level of that spell-like ability is equal to your racial HD, which would be zero, but Primordial Giant also gets +1 to the caster level of all spell-like abilities. Even though the caster level on that is only 1st, there's no minimum caster level for spell-like abilities.

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    GnomeWizardGuy

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    Default Re: Level adjustment +1/+2 for wizard

    Quote Originally Posted by Biffoniacus_Furiou View Post
    Half-Giant is +1 LA, and apply Primordial Giant from Secrets of Xen'drik for +0 LA. That's a net Str -2, Dex -2, Con +0, Int +4, Wis +0, Cha +4, and being able to use Invisibility as an at-will spell-like ability, on top of all the other traits and qualities both of those grant.
    But wait I still don’t understand why I could cast invisibility: isn’t that a lvl2 spell? Isn’t the maximum level for my SLA lvl1?

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    MaxiDuRaritry's Avatar

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    Default Re: Level adjustment +1/+2 for wizard

    Quote Originally Posted by Mrark View Post
    But wait I still don’t understand why I could cast invisibility: isn’t that a lvl2 spell? Isn’t the maximum level for my SLA lvl1?
    Many Core spells are on other classes' spell lists at lower levels than what they're listed at in the PHB (with the trapsmith's level 1 haste seemingly the ur-example). So it's definitely not unheard of to cast spells at lower levels than they're typically listed at.

    And as said above, there's no minimum CL for [Sp] abilities, so whatever they're listed as, that's what they are, even if it's lower than normal. They do, however, have to adhere to the CL they're listed as, so a CL 1 fireball (as an example) would deal 1d6 fire damage, despite the typical lowest level it could be casted at is CL 5. If it's a CL 1 [Sp], however...
    Last edited by MaxiDuRaritry; 2020-03-27 at 03:20 PM.

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    Titan in the Playground
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    Default Re: Level adjustment +1/+2 for wizard

    Quote Originally Posted by Mrark View Post
    But wait I still don’t understand why I could cast invisibility: isn’t that a lvl2 spell? Isn’t the maximum level for my SLA lvl1?
    The template says you get to pick from three spell-like abilities, usable at will. "The creature’s caster level never affects which spell-like abilities the creature has; sometimes the given caster level is lower than the level a spellcasting character would need to cast the spell of the same name." The caster level doesn't matter, if it says you get it, then you get it. A caster level 1 Invisibility lasts 1 minute, but that doesn't much matter if you can use it as often as you want. There's no verbal or somatic or material components for spell-like abilities, so nobody can tell when you use it, apart from concentrating for a second or so and then disappearing if they were watching you.

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    Flumph

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    Default Re: Level adjustment +1/+2 for wizard

    Do you get +1/+2 LA for free, or do you just have the option of taking it?
    In the latter case, very few templates are worth it, compared to more casting.

    But in the former case, Dark is +1 LA, and gives you +8 to Hide and HiPS, plus some other minor stuff. Good with a small-sized caster, like a Whisper Gnome.

    Invisibility is better at this point, true, but eventually unusual senses become more common and anything short of Superior Invisibility loses its luster, particular in a high-op game with presumably high-op foes. But with Darkstalker, sufficiently high stealth skills are hard to counter (although check w/ the GM how it interacts with Touchsight).
    Last edited by icefractal; 2020-03-27 at 07:08 PM.

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    MaxiDuRaritry's Avatar

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    Default Re: Level adjustment +1/+2 for wizard

    Quote Originally Posted by icefractal View Post
    But in the former case, Dark is +1 LA, and gives you +8 to Hide and HiPS, plus some other minor stuff. Good with a small-sized caster, like a Whisper Gnome.
    Dark is also available via items. Always-on access to the dark template via the Greater Collar of Umbral Metamorphosis from the ToM is only about 22,000 gp, I believe.
    Last edited by MaxiDuRaritry; 2020-03-27 at 07:16 PM.

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    NecromancerGirl

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    Default Re: Level adjustment +1/+2 for wizard

    Are you starting at level 1? (If you are: Can you use monster classes?) A spellhoarding loredrake steel wyrmling has 4 RHD and LA +2, and casts as a third-level wizard. It's strictly speaking not the strongest caster, since you lose one level of casting... until you use bestow curse to go up an age category and get two levels of casting and three extra hit dice. Just remember to remove that curse when you have enough XP to level up*, because you do get the extra +4 ECL while the curse is active.


    *When you have the amount of XP that would let you level up if you weren't cursed, rather.
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  13. - Top - End - #13
    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Level adjustment +1/+2 for wizard

    I'm surprised nobody has mentioned the Phrenic template. It's not the most powerful, but it essentially makes you a half-baked sorcerer/psion, with all their powers augmented to the max. It's a unique option.


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    MaxiDuRaritry's Avatar

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    Default Re: Level adjustment +1/+2 for wizard

    Quote Originally Posted by The Vagabond View Post
    I'm surprised nobody has mentioned the Phrenic template. It's not the most powerful, but it essentially makes you a half-baked sorcerer/psion, with all their powers augmented to the max. It's a unique option.
    I've never been a huge fan of phrenic. Most of the pre-chosen powers really aren't very good ones. Now, if you could choose them yourself...

    Seriously, every phrenic creature has the same powers. Why would a psionic wolf have the same powers as a psionic shark?

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    PirateWench

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    Default Re: Level adjustment +1/+2 for wizard

    It's not necessarily the best fit for a wizard, but a phaerrim hatchling (lost empires of faerun, pages 187-189) is pretty bonkers for +2 LA. They only have one hit die, so it will be replaced by your first class level. They also have casting as though they were a sorcerer of their character level. RAW, if you choose to play as one and level up as a sorcerer, you get double progression as it explicitly stacks its innate casting with the sorcerer class. As if that's not enough, their sorcerer casting is actually treated as spell-like abilities, allowing you to ignore material components. They have a few other goodies like natural flight speed, polymorph immunity, and claw attacks, but the real draw is the insane casting. (It's worth mentioning that the phaerrim as printed in monsters of faerun does not show level adjustments / age categories, but there was a web enhancement for some other book that was nearly identical to the LEoF version.)

    If you want to go off the deep end, there's more cheese available. To put it mildly, the definition of "true dragon" is hotly debated. I don't necessarily endorse this definition, but one of the more popular ones describes true dragons as "creatures of the dragon type that advance through age category." If you were to eat the additional LA for the half-dragon template, you would meet that definition. (Phaerrim have defined age categories that affect their stats, like your grandpappy's dragons.) You could then embrace the popular Loredrake sovereign archetype (dragons of eberron, pages 30-31) to change your innate casting to function as a wizard two levels higher. The crackers for that cheese is typically the spellhoarding psychosis (dragon magazine 313, pages 79-81.)

    Edit: If you want to play a gish wizard, you could do a lot worse than a template-stacked Illumian for +1 LA. Start with an Illumian (races of destiny, pages 53-55), using AeshKrau for your power word. Add Half-Minotaur (dragon magazine 313, pages 94-95) then Half-Ogre (dragon magazine 313, pages 95-96), then Primordial Giant (secrets of xen drik, page 81.) You end up with an insane +12 strength, +4 con, -2 dex, -2 cha for +1 LA. It also includes some other benefits like large size, at-will SLA, darkvision, scent, the track feat, a natural weapon, etc. Basing your bonus spell slots on your ridiculous strength will let you cast all day, and strength is really easy to boost with magic.

    You can always tack on Unseelie Fey (dragon compendium page 223) or arctic (dragon magazine 306, page 61) if you're interested in their benefits.
    Last edited by FauxKnee; 2020-03-27 at 10:50 PM.

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    MaxiDuRaritry's Avatar

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    Default Re: Level adjustment +1/+2 for wizard

    I was offered 2 free LA in a gestalt game once.

    I played a factotum/totemist/unarmed swordsage // psion/constructor, and I instead asked if I could have a Dragonwrought kobold (refluffed, of course), and abused it to its utmost without taking any additional LA.

    And, honestly, I think I came out ahead of the other players with that one.
    Last edited by MaxiDuRaritry; 2020-03-27 at 10:56 PM.

  17. - Top - End - #17
    Ogre in the Playground
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    smile Re: Level adjustment +1/+2 for wizard

    I played a Phrenic Shadowcraft Mage in a level 11-12ish range game once. While the powers I got from Phrenic were not the best possible, it was a lovely safety net and I ended up using them. Some healing, some blasting, some immediate action buffs. Access to a better Dominate effect even after giving up enchantment to specialize was nice too. The power resistance/spell resistance thing might be awkward depending on transparency, I don't remember how we played that.

  18. - Top - End - #18
    Titan in the Playground
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    Default Re: Level adjustment +1/+2 for wizard

    The Shadow Creature template in LoM grants Shadow Blend (like a Shadow Mastiff has), along with fast healing and a bunch of other abilities. Shadow Blend is effectively invisibility that doesn't go away unless you're in daylight. Carry a parasol and you're indistinguishable from Xykon's unknown ultimate henchman monster.

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    Default Re: Level adjustment +1/+2 for wizard

    It's not LA but straight ECL that would almost certainly be a nope from most GMs, but Dragon #293 p53 has the ECLs for awakened animals. It also directly sets their ECL regardless of how they are changed. Just base-line: Cat, Lizard, Monkey, Toad, Rat are all ECL 0 starting with 3 RHD unless you advance the money for Small size(still set to ECL 0). Because it is your natural form you don't need anything special to spellcast regardless of which you pick. I personally like using lizard to make a dragon(dragonblood association or Draconic with Dragon Wings and Dragon Tail from flaws). If you want to get cheesy, an Intensified Awakened Titanic Dungeonbred Magebred War Lizard ritually associated with Dragonblood is set to ECL 0 by Awaken. Even without cheese, still solid option to be a cat wizard.

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