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  1. - Top - End - #91
    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: New UA: Spells and Magic Tattoos

    Quote Originally Posted by Kane0 View Post
    Lance of Lethargy.
    Ah, I thought you were talking about the slow effect from Spirit Shroud.

    Can you explain your post then, because I'm not seeing the benefit you are talking about. Grasp of Hadar to pull them into the Shroud, then hit them with Repelling Blast and Lance of Lethargy to push them back out with a 10ft speed reduction? I don't think that highlights the strength of the Spirit Shroud in any way, except you get the extra damage on the second strike.

    What am I missing here?

  2. - Top - End - #92
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    Default Re: New UA: Spells and Magic Tattoos

    Quote Originally Posted by Chaosmancer View Post
    Ah, I thought you were talking about the slow effect from Spirit Shroud.

    Can you explain your post then, because I'm not seeing the benefit you are talking about. Grasp of Hadar to pull them into the Shroud, then hit them with Repelling Blast and Lance of Lethargy to push them back out with a 10ft speed reduction? I don't think that highlights the strength of the Spirit Shroud in any way, except you get the extra damage on the second strike.

    What am I missing here?
    So your standard blastlock will use Hex and push back the target with Repelling Blast to keep their distance, Spirit Shroud isn't a straight upgrade because of the range (and higher slot).
    In order to benefit from the higher damage you have to get close, which means using some of your movement which you would otherwise be using to keep away from melee range of the target. Repelling blast is good for the parting shot, but if you're using at least some of your movement to bring them into Spirit Shroud range a combination of Lance of Lethargy and Grasp of Hadar could mean the difference between you ending your turn within engagement range (30' by default).

  3. - Top - End - #93
    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: New UA: Spells and Magic Tattoos

    Quote Originally Posted by Kane0 View Post
    So your standard blastlock will use Hex and push back the target with Repelling Blast to keep their distance, Spirit Shroud isn't a straight upgrade because of the range (and higher slot).
    In order to benefit from the higher damage you have to get close, which means using some of your movement which you would otherwise be using to keep away from melee range of the target. Repelling blast is good for the parting shot, but if you're using at least some of your movement to bring them into Spirit Shroud range a combination of Lance of Lethargy and Grasp of Hadar could mean the difference between you ending your turn within engagement range (30' by default).
    Ah, got it.

    Personally, I wouldn't see much use for Spirit Shroud on a Blastlock, because of the range issue. I would utilize it for a bladelock, who is going to be seeking out melee combat, because then the range is a null point. It is a good point to look at how blastlocks will utilize it though, because they do tend to be the default build. I think getting multiple invocations though represents too much of a cost for my taste. I'd either risk letting them close with me (because, frankly, +6d8 damage by level 9 on two bolts is really nice), or I'd not bother with Spirit Shroud.

  4. - Top - End - #94
    Titan in the Playground
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    Default Re: New UA: Spells and Magic Tattoos

    Quote Originally Posted by Kane0 View Post
    So your standard blastlock will use Hex and push back the target with Repelling Blast to keep their distance, Spirit Shroud isn't a straight upgrade because of the range (and higher slot). In order to benefit from the higher damage you have to get close, which means using some of your movement which you would otherwise be using to keep away from melee range of the target. Repelling blast is good for the parting shot, but if you're using at least some of your movement to bring them into Spirit Shroud range a combination of Lance of Lethargy and Grasp of Hadar could mean the difference between you ending your turn within engagement range (30' by default).
    Or they just use it in scenarios where keeping your distance isn't feasible--if you can kite effectively you have no need to spend spells to boost your damage anyway, you just shoot them twice as long.
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  5. - Top - End - #95
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Chimera

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    Default Re: New UA: Spells and Magic Tattoos

    Quote Originally Posted by jaappleton View Post
    Thatís right, Spirit Shroud works on all attacks you make so long as the target is within 10ft.

    So, thatís means Spiritual Weapon, Fire Bolt, Eldritch Blast, Starry Form - Archer vŪa Stars Druid, any sort of spell with an Attack Roll qualifies.

    Spiritual Weapon is the only spell attack thatís natively a bonus action.

    Now, Ravnica introduced a magic item called Illusionist Bracers; if you used your Action to cast a cantrip, you can do it again as a bonus action. (very rare)

    So letís take an 11th level Warlock with Eldritch Blast and Spirit Shroud, and now youíre doing 6d8+6d10+30 per turn. WITH A CANTRIP.
    At the cost of a 3rd level spell slot and having to get close enough, which is honestly pretty okay. Illusionist's Bracers are busted with or without this spell. I think a bigger problem is the upcasting potential. At 11th level you're not doing 1d8 extra damage, you're dealing 3d8. So your basic Eldritch Blast ends up having the potential for 3d10+9d8+15 damage. Of course, compared to something like say, Synaptic Static, which does Fireball levels of Psychic AOE damage coupled with a concentration-free debuff, I would say it mostly ends up being unbalanced due to stepping on the toes of other dedicated single-target damage builds.
    Last edited by AdAstra; 2020-03-28 at 01:58 AM.
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  6. - Top - End - #96
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    Default Re: New UA: Spells and Magic Tattoos

    For otherworldly form, I feel like they could change the damage immunities to resistances, drop it to level 5, and then give it to pallys as well, then it would actually be solid and worth it (at least for pallys). But currently.... Meh?

  7. - Top - End - #97
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    Default Re: New UA: Spells and Magic Tattoos

    Otherworldly Form lasts a minute but Tenserís Transformation lasts 10.

    Screw that.

  8. - Top - End - #98
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    Default Re: New UA: Spells and Magic Tattoos

    It's an interesting take on tattoos, but the third party products are more interesting and varied. I know simple is one of the driving design principles of 5e but there's so much fun to be found with this idea.

    You can use a variation of Glyph of Warding - Spell combined with other spells (Enhance Ability) and crafting to make this similar to making a human magic wand. Or you can make them an entirely separate crafting tradition. Or both.

    You can have them used as spell vessels which need to be reloaded (and can only hold one specific spell, or one specific type of spell, or multiple spells). You can have them be a spell focus (specific spell, specific spell type, a general bonus to casting a specific spell or spell type or school of spells). You can make them self-powered (take (Spell Level*10)% HP damage, rounded down to no lower than 1, every time you activate the spell). You can make them absorb magical energy to power up. None of it simple. All of it fun.

  9. - Top - End - #99
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    Default Re: New UA: Spells and Magic Tattoos

    I really like that the eldritch claw tat can let monks stun, use open hands abilities, etc on targets 30' away...

  10. - Top - End - #100
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    Default Re: New UA: Spells and Magic Tattoos

    Sorry if I missed this in the past four pages, but do the Spellwrought Tattoos really not require attunement?
    Even with attunement, these bad boys are like super charged Rings of Spell Storing. It's super DM dependent, being a Magic Item in 5e, but it's possible to have at least 9 or as possibly as many as 17 Counter Spells with who knows how much room left over for Shields and Absorb Elements.
    (Sidebar: "up to 6 inches" how is any of that a helpful description?)
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  11. - Top - End - #101
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    BardGirl

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    Default Re: New UA: Spells and Magic Tattoos

    Quote Originally Posted by ff7hero View Post
    Sorry if I missed this in the past four pages, but do the Spellwrought Tattoos really not require attunement?
    One attunement for any number of tattoos.

  12. - Top - End - #102
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    Default Re: New UA: Spells and Magic Tattoos

    Spell tattoos are not rings of spell storing. Theyíre scrolls that donít require you to be a caster. As such, they are actually quite expensive one shots.
    Last edited by Segev; 2020-03-29 at 09:53 AM.

  13. - Top - End - #103
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    Default Re: New UA: Spells and Magic Tattoos

    Quote Originally Posted by Zetakya View Post
    One attunement for any number of tattoos.
    Spellwraught has no attunement requirement, the only limitation is space on your body.

  14. - Top - End - #104
    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: New UA: Spells and Magic Tattoos

    Quote Originally Posted by ff7hero View Post
    Sorry if I missed this in the past four pages, but do the Spellwrought Tattoos really not require attunement?
    Even with attunement, these bad boys are like super charged Rings of Spell Storing. It's super DM dependent, being a Magic Item in 5e, but it's possible to have at least 9 or as possibly as many as 17 Counter Spells with who knows how much room left over for Shields and Absorb Elements.
    (Sidebar: "up to 6 inches" how is any of that a helpful description?)
    Worse than a ring of spell storing, because they are consumable.

    Still, very useful to have an impossible to remove resource, but whatever spell it is better be worth it to only cast once.

  15. - Top - End - #105
    Titan in the Playground
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    Default Re: New UA: Spells and Magic Tattoos

    Quote Originally Posted by Chaosmancer View Post
    Worse than a ring of spell storing, because they are consumable.

    Still, very useful to have an impossible to remove resource, but whatever spell it is better be worth it to only cast once.
    Feather Fall and Absorb Elements are both Common and would be good ideas. Revivify is only Uncommon.

    The weird thing is Spellwrought Tattoo spells are cheaper than spell scrolls despite being better, e.g. not requiring an action to cast. (IIRC spell scrolls do require an action, so are useless for reaction spells like Feather Fall.) It's not that I object to the prices for Spellwrought, it's just that spell scrolls should also be lowered to a similar amount.

    P.S. Also Shadowfell Brand tattoo is weirdly overrated. Compare to Cloak of Elvenkind which is both better and lower-rarity (Uncommon vs. Very Rare).
    Last edited by MaxWilson; 2020-03-29 at 01:03 PM.
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  16. - Top - End - #106
    Orc in the Playground
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    Default Re: New UA: Spells and Magic Tattoos

    Since you can choose if any item is melded into your body in Wildshape, and tattoos are a skin-level thing but still a magic item, and we totally don't know how many feathers or fur dinosaurs had in many cases (especially not D&D ones), tattoos look nice for Moon Druids. They certainly can be "not melded" in wildshape. So you've got +1 magic unarmed strikes with the Eldritch Claw Tattoo. An uncommon magic item :)

    Lvl2, bonus action turn into a Deinonychus, do your thing. You've just got a claw'y picture on you. And three attacks, and maybe one bonus action one next turn, if you don't use the tattoo, but manage to charge/claw someone. 3x +5 to-hit, 1d8+3 attacks, at lvl2, standard. Magic ones, of course.

    Then you use your bonus action to turn that into 3x 30' ranged +5 to-hit 1d8+1d6+3 damage attacks if you want next turn. At lvl2. For a minute. Once a day, yes, but for an entire encounter.

    I mean, you're fine without the tattoo, it's still all good. Hell, sometimes you get 4x attacks at +4 to-hit, 1d8+2 damage anyway as a Moon Druid in Deinonychus form as it is. No tatt, that's it. But you get a +1 magic weapon just for having it, so if there's ever a chance of doing so, grab it. And you get a "can close-ranged shoot now" clause for *every wildshape ever*. I don't even want to consider what "melee weapon attacks" that effect can stack with, and the condition riders on them (OK, most of them say "within 5' on them", but I'm still going to look. Poison stuff should work, anyway. GCSnake constricts seem too as well. When the hell are they not grappled/ restrained? (outside 30' from that point onwards?). I don't know). Damn that's good.

    There's a few campaigns that are still fairly low level starts (lvl1-3 or so) where a DM wants to make it fun. "Have an uncommon magic item!", they say. If that thing ever becomes official, almost all druids, not just Moons, would be hard pressed to take anything else.

    (everyone says they've been wanting to add more damage to Monks. But we all know what they really wanted....)
    (Warhorse Eldritch Maul trampling and Super Jaculi magic springs for the "normal" lvl4 druids, for one. It just gets sillier with Moons. Seems totally intended RAW. Lol)
    Last edited by sambojin; 2020-03-30 at 09:17 AM.

  17. - Top - End - #107
    Orc in the Playground
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    Default Re: New UA: Spells and Magic Tattoos

    Seriously, look how fun an Eldritch Claw'd Jaculi is in combat. Can move "up to" 30' with spring, but after it moves 10' with it (not necessarily towards an enemy), it gets advantage at +5 attack/ 4d6+3 magic damage. Can bonus action activate the tattoo for 30' range on that and an extra 1d6 damage for a minute. So 5d6+3, repeatably. Can just shuffle around at 10' a turn (maybe with an extra 30' normal movement on top of the spring action, it's unclear), so can at least still move the same as everyone else in the party. It's not a small amount at lvls4-8. It's actually pretty good with a 30' range on your attack. Advantage on Dex(Hide) checks and Wis(Perception) checks, so if you don't have to talk or cast, there's no reason to leave the form half the time until you get the HP knocked out of you. And you alpha-strike repeatedly, which gives you even less reasons to.

    People forget just how much basic melee normal druids get. That tattoo just makes it even weirder and funnier.
    Last edited by sambojin; 2020-03-30 at 09:50 AM.

  18. - Top - End - #108
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    Default Re: New UA: Spells and Magic Tattoos

    Quote Originally Posted by jaappleton View Post
    Otherworldly Form lasts a minute but Tenserís Transformation lasts 10.

    Screw that.
    I mean...they are two different spells. Sure, both of them give you an extra attack and are the same level, but aside from that they have very different strengths.

    Tenser's is more for doing damage. You get advantage on Con saves to keep it going when you are in the thick of it, you gain extra damage on your weapon attacks, advantage on attacks with simple and martial weapons, and proficiency with any weapon (As well as armor which always mystified the hell out of me to have that on a Self target spell you couldn't cast without armor prof for what you are wearing anyways). It's only defensive buff is a crap tone of temp HP that you lose if the spell ends.

    Otherworldly Form is more defensive, giving you immunity to two damage types and a status effect, a bonus to your AC, and the mighty power of flight thrown in for the hell of it (And at a higher movement speed than most casters would have on foot). It's only offensive buff is the ability to use your spell casting mod for your weapon in addition to them always being magical for damage purposes.

    All in all, Otherworldly form makes more sense as a self buff for a caster than Tenser's Transformation, which seems a lot more like it should be on a more physical fighter than either of the squishy classes it can be learned by. The shorter duration makes sense because, in my eyes at least, it's stronger defensively than Tenser's is Offensively, even with the massive damage buff Tenser's has. The shorter duration probably also has to do with it lacking the risk of exhaustion.
    Last edited by BloodBrandy; Yesterday at 12:37 AM.

  19. - Top - End - #109
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    Default Re: New UA: Spells and Magic Tattoos

    Tenser's transformation is a legacy spell (as might be recognized by the fact that "Tenser" is the inventor). In the earliest editions of D&D, mages really were squishy and fighters really had some massive advantages in comparison. The spell was designed back then to let a wizard stop being a wizard, briefly, and start beating things up in melee. It let them attack more frequently than they could cast, made them tougher, and generally was an action economy buff to them when DPS was all that really mattered. Especially single-target DPS. They still weren't fighters; the original version(s) of the spell restricted them to still using daggers, which meant no more-damaging weapons and (especially) no using the super-awesome magical swords that only fighters could use.

    By 3e, it had become a truly lackluster spell, falling well behind divine might and divine power, which made clerics into super-fighters. Being a wizard was never worse than being a fighter at the levels that a wizard could cast Tenser's transformation. This remains true in 5e. 5e, though, is even more silly because the writers of the spell didn't properly consider the mechanics surrounding it, so even if a wizard really wants to use it, he cannot use the benefits listed unless he doesn't need them. Well, one of the benefits, anyway: armor proficiency. It only lasts 10 minutes, and it takes 10 minutes to don armor. If he tries putting armor on before he casts it, he can only cast if he's proficient with the armor, which means he didn't need the spell's added proficiency. Besides, who seriously expects to have 10 minutes to stand around putting on armor before you need a sudden combat spell?

    The only way around this so far that I've found is Illusory Reality, preferably used with your active seeming, or with a Hat of Disguise-provided disguise self. But I doubt that a transmutation spell was meant to be only really useful to a specialist Illusionist.

    In the 5e paradigm, I would have just made Tenser's transformation crib from the various polymorphing and shapeshifting magics, and out-and-out replaced the stats of the caster. Probably something like,

    When you cast this spell, you transform into a physically ideal specimine of yourself, gaining skill and prowess in combat at the expense of your magical powers. When you cast this spell, you may choose a suit of armor within five feet. If it is not unattended, the being holding or wearing it may choose to permit or deny you its use. Incapacitated creatures do not count as "attending." The suit of armor magically applies itself to you.

    Regardless of whether you don armor or not, your statistics are replaced by those of a Champion or Gladiator (possibly caster's choice, possibly I just pick the one that's closest in CR to the level at which you can cast the spell; I forget which one is higher-CR), save for your armor class (which is determined by the armor you're wearing or any active class features or magical effects that are upon you, your choice). You automatically succeed on any Concentration checks needed to maintain this spell. If you are reduced to 0 hit points while this spell is active, it ends, and any excess damage applies to your normal hit point pool. When this spell ends, the armor (if any) with which you are not proficient falls off of you and piles in a space within five feet.
    Which probably could be cleaned up, but the nutshell is that armor magically flies onto you and you get the better of Champion or Gladiator (from the Monster Manual) stats. Because those are reasonably effective (though I'd have to double-check to make sure they were effective at a level commensurate with the level of the spell), and it's a lot easier than trying to recalculate combat stats for a wizard who now is buffed for combat.

  20. - Top - End - #110
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    RedWizardGuy

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    Default Re: New UA: Spells and Magic Tattoos

    Yeah, the armor bit on Tenser's Transformation always bothered me

  21. - Top - End - #111
    Titan in the Playground
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    Default Re: New UA: Spells and Magic Tattoos

    Quote Originally Posted by Segev View Post
    The only way around this so far that I've found is Illusory Reality, preferably used with your active seeming, or with a Hat of Disguise-provided disguise self. But I doubt that a transmutation spell was meant to be only really useful to a specialist Illusionist.
    It's also usable via Magic Jar into the body of someone who's already wearing armor.

    (Usable... but not useful. I can think of very few scenarios where Tenser's Transformation + two body shifts would be a good use of three actions during a fight.)
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  22. - Top - End - #112
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    Kobold

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    Default Re: New UA: Spells and Magic Tattoos

    Quote Originally Posted by sambojin View Post
    Since you can choose if any item is melded into your body in Wildshape, and tattoos are a skin-level thing but still a magic item, and we totally don't know how many feathers or fur dinosaurs had in many cases (especially not D&D ones), tattoos look nice for Moon Druids. They certainly can be "not melded" in wildshape. So you've got +1 magic unarmed strikes with the Eldritch Claw Tattoo. An uncommon magic item :)
    I hadn't thought of these on the druid. definitely a boon there. Hell, the barrier tattoo makes sense on a wildshape.
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  23. - Top - End - #113
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    Default Re: New UA: Spells and Magic Tattoos

    In the notes that I took when I read through this, magical tatoos each need to take an attunement slot. Not requiring that is a balance mess.

    WoTC: stop the bloat, already.

    As I looked through the spells, I liked where they are headed.

    I think Spirit Shroud ought to be limited to Paladins.
    As I read through it, I wondered at why I would take this rather than Spirit Guardian if I were a cleric.
    Last edited by KorvinStarmast; Today at 09:34 AM.
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  24. - Top - End - #114
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    Kobold

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    Default Re: New UA: Spells and Magic Tattoos

    Quote Originally Posted by KorvinStarmast View Post
    I think Spirit Shroud ought to be limited to Paladins.
    As I read through it, I wondered at why I would take this rather than Spirit Guardian if I were a cleric.
    For a mechanical argument, it's subtler (you are shrouded in spookiness vs. being a 30' wide sphere of Night on Bald Mountain), and less prone to friendly fire (any villager in range that you didn't see is going to die).

    In actuality, because they didn't have a reason clerics shouldn't have it. It's good on Paladins, Melee Warlocks love this kind of thing (perfect for when your Hex gets blown), and Wizards get everything. It's in the Cleric flavor profile, even if it's a poorer choice for almost every situation compared to SG.
    Now if this were a Touch spell instead of a Self spell...
    Why yes, Warlock is my solution for everything.

    Quote Originally Posted by obryn View Post
    Active Abilities are great because you - the player - are demonstrating your Dwarvenness or Elfishness. You're not passively a dwarf, you're actively dwarfing your way through obstacles.

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