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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Pixie in the Playground
     
    SolithKnightGuy

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    Default Switching to bow without sword clattering on the ground

    tldr: how to drop my weapon so I can switch to archery, without the weapon falling to the ground/away from me

    flavor:
    So my lv7 fighter nabbed a pair of winged boots, and I'm in love.
    We're taking the lives of young blue dragons, I finish the 3rd and final, have some movement left and a haste attack as well.
    I zoom toward the 3 drakes on the ground, can't get there, and realize I'm not willing to drop my Defender sword to the ground in order to whip out my bow for the last shot. (He's actually an intelligent sword with a thick brogue named Finny who has a bit of an intolerably prideful demeanor and there would be just NO end of it if I did something so unsanctimonious. Even a 5 foot drop wouldn't do. Also, he's way smarter than me...) So I just end my turn in mid air, and watch them burrow to safety. shedding greenish, half-orc salt tears silently in the darkness.

    1) I still had my bonus action, but we determined that would be useless in somehow stowing the sword, or even just HANGING it on my foot. Is this right? Was there NOTHING I could do, short of dropping Finny? A Dex or acrobatics check to catch it with my feet?? The guard on the sword is prodigious ...maybe that's feasible?

    2) Main question: I'm at a loss for finding some solution to this. Remember the Greater Returning weapon crystal of 3.5? Boy, I'm missing THAT little gem right now. (pun intended). So I've come to the brilliant minds in the playground.
    -Is there some magic item I should seek?
    -Some spell of "phase spider's silk"?
    -Is there some way to secure a weapon I'm not thinking of? (short of a sword-on-a-rope, I can't think of anything. Maybe that would even work? could it get tangled? Maybe have a low breaking strength so it can't be grabbed, but would hold the sword's weight easily? flying half-orc is Str22, so tug of wars are an acceptable danger)
    -Would a hook on my hip or boot of some sort work? (ok, there's i'm spitballing my own solution...and of course "ask DM" is the answer)
    -Does this come up at all? based on my not finding anything so far, I'm wondering if the world just deals with this problem.

    3) Extra Credit: is there any way to get/attack/kill a burrowed enemy? SO stymied there! they all have like 10hp or less... one of them would just take a good sneeze...

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    GreataxeFighterGuy

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    Default Re: Switching to bow without sword clattering on the ground

    In 5e as far as I can tell there is nothing to help you not drop your sword and shoot your bow in the same round of combat unless you want to action surge to get another action for the use an object action to draw your bow after using your free one to sheath your sword. If the sword can be used one handed you could just always have the bow in the other hand constantly and then just sheath/draw your sword as needed. If you want to be able to switch between ranged combat and melee combat in 5e seamlessly you should play a spellcaster, or a ranged character, or a kensi monk with long bow proficiency or basically anything but primary non-magical melee weapon user. I think this is more on an annoying accident then an intentional design decision.

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Colossus in the Playground
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    Default Re: Switching to bow without sword clattering on the ground

    Quote Originally Posted by Valcor View Post
    3) Extra Credit: is there any way to get/attack/kill a burrowed enemy? SO stymied there! they all have like 10hp or less... one of them would just take a good sneeze...
    Can't help you with first one aside from maybe suggesting acquiring a Glove of Storing or something similar to that end.

    This part however, some burrowing creatures leave tunnels. The ones that don't, well, you need to be able to burrow/earth glide/some such yourself (Polymorph, Wild Shape can help in that regard), summon something that can (an elemental, some Badgers or whatever) or, if they are close to the surface, you can annihilate the ground around them with Disintegrate, Move Earth, Wish or similar to get at them. On this level it's hard and without magic, not possible. You'd need to prevent their escape somehow (Sentinel, Grapple, etc.) if you wanted to do something like this martially.
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  4. - Top - End - #4
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    SolithKnightGuy

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    Default Re: Switching to bow without sword clattering on the ground

    If you are an EK you can summon one of your bonded weapons back to you as a bonus action.
    If you have a hand crossbow you can technically keep it loaded and use it to fire once without dropping your sword. Be careful if you decide to use this.
    If you wanted to, you could dash with your haste action to get another 60' of movement. You might get an opportunity attack in if an enemy tries to burrow away.

    By the by, how much damage do you expect you would have dealt with your bow? If you have a Dex of 10 and a normal longbow your to-hit would be +3 and your damage would be 1d8. Attacking a dragon with that wouldn't be very effective.
    Last edited by CheddarChampion; 2020-03-27 at 12:36 PM.

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Tanarii's Avatar

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    Default Re: Switching to bow without sword clattering on the ground

    Toss a javelin?

  6. - Top - End - #6

    Default Re: Switching to bow without sword clattering on the ground

    Quote Originally Posted by Valcor View Post
    tldr: how to drop my weapon so I can switch to archery, without the weapon falling to the ground/away from me

    flavor:
    So my lv7 fighter nabbed a pair of winged boots, and I'm in love.
    We're taking the lives of young blue dragons, I finish the 3rd and final, have some movement left and a haste attack as well.
    I zoom toward the 3 drakes on the ground, can't get there, and realize I'm not willing to drop my Defender sword to the ground in order to whip out my bow for the last shot. (He's actually an intelligent sword with a thick brogue named Finny who has a bit of an intolerably prideful demeanor and there would be just NO end of it if I did something so unsanctimonious. Even a 5 foot drop wouldn't do. Also, he's way smarter than me...) So I just end my turn in mid air, and watch them burrow to safety. shedding greenish, half-orc salt tears silently in the darkness.

    1) I still had my bonus action, but we determined that would be useless in somehow stowing the sword, or even just HANGING it on my foot. Is this right? Was there NOTHING I could do, short of dropping Finny? A Dex or acrobatics check to catch it with my feet?? The guard on the sword is prodigious ...maybe that's feasible?

    2) Main question: I'm at a loss for finding some solution to this. Remember the Greater Returning weapon crystal of 3.5? Boy, I'm missing THAT little gem right now. (pun intended). So I've come to the brilliant minds in the playground.
    -Is there some magic item I should seek?
    -Some spell of "phase spider's silk"?
    -Is there some way to secure a weapon I'm not thinking of? (short of a sword-on-a-rope, I can't think of anything. Maybe that would even work? could it get tangled? Maybe have a low breaking strength so it can't be grabbed, but would hold the sword's weight easily? flying half-orc is Str22, so tug of wars are an acceptable danger)
    -Would a hook on my hip or boot of some sort work? (ok, there's i'm spitballing my own solution...and of course "ask DM" is the answer)
    -Does this come up at all? based on my not finding anything so far, I'm wondering if the world just deals with this problem.

    3) Extra Credit: is there any way to get/attack/kill a burrowed enemy? SO stymied there! they all have like 10hp or less... one of them would just take a good sneeze...
    Haste can be used to Attack (one attack only), Dash, Disengage, Hide, or Use an Item. You hadn't used up your Haste, so you could have Used an Item to sheathe your sword and your object interaction to pull out your bow.

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    SolithKnightGuy

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    Default Re: Switching to bow without sword clattering on the ground

    Quote Originally Posted by MaxWilson View Post
    Haste can be used to Attack (one attack only), Dash, Disengage, Hide, or Use an Item. You hadn't used up your Haste, so you could have Used an Item to sheathe your sword and your object interaction to pull out your bow.
    But would no longer have had the Haste action left to actually attack with it.

  8. - Top - End - #8
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    NinjaGirl

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    Default Re: Switching to bow without sword clattering on the ground

    If you are in a situation where switching between them is likely, you can use the sword one handed with the bow in the other hand. This allows you to use your one object interaction to sheathe the sword, allowing you to use the bow.

  9. - Top - End - #9
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    SolithKnightGuy

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    Default Re: Switching to bow without sword clattering on the ground

    Alternatively, I know this isn't relevant to your character, but a 3 level rogue dip into Thief would give you 'Fast Hands' allowing you to use an object as a bonus action. This would have allowed a bonus action to sheathe your Defender and then your object interaction to pull your bow and still have the Haste action to take the shot.

  10. - Top - End - #10
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    GreenSorcererElf

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    Default Re: Switching to bow without sword clattering on the ground

    Don't drop it. Stab it into the ground.

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  11. - Top - End - #11
    Halfling in the Playground
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    Dec 2017

    Default Re: Switching to bow without sword clattering on the ground

    To me, this seems to be the trade-off you make with melee hand-usage:

    2-handed weapon: more damage
    2-weapon fighting: more attacks
    1-handed & shield: more AC
    1-handed & miscellaneous: versatility (carry something, hang from cliff, grapple, have readied ranged weapon, etc.)

    I've heard mention of fastening your melee weapons to your body with bands/chains/etc so that if you're disarmed or choose to drop your weapon, you won't lose it.
    Last edited by Floogal; 2020-03-27 at 02:19 PM.

  12. - Top - End - #12

    Default Re: Switching to bow without sword clattering on the ground

    Also, out of curiosity, was it not possible to just Dash over (using your Haste) so you'd get an opportunity attack with your sword? Haste doubles your movement rate so that would give you 120' of movement in the turn (60' regular + 60' Dash).

  13. - Top - End - #13
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Laserlight's Avatar

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    Default Re: Switching to bow without sword clattering on the ground

    Quote Originally Posted by Floogal View Post
    I've heard mention of fastening your melee weapons to your body with bands/chains/etc so that if you're disarmed or choose to drop your weapon, you won't lose it.
    Back in my SCA days, our group had a guy who, after earning the sobriquet "Jacques of the Flying Sword", ran a cord through his pommel and made a loop, which he wore around his wrist. As a DM, I would probably allow that for a 1H sword; I certainly would not allow it for 2H weapons.

    But in general I'd say things worked as intended. You had a choice whether to drop the sword or not; you chose not to. If you never have to make meaningful choices, you're not in an interesting game.
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  14. - Top - End - #14
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    PaladinGuy

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    Default Re: Switching to bow without sword clattering on the ground

    I second the vote for throwing a javelin. If you're str based it's probably better anyway. Ditch the bow.

  15. - Top - End - #15
    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Switching to bow without sword clattering on the ground

    It costs your free object interaction to sheath a sword or take out your bow. You only have one object interaction in a turn without using an action.

    1) An EK can summon a bonded weapon as a bonus action. If you were an EK and had bonded both the sword and the bow you could use a free object interaction to sheath the sword and a bonus action to summon the bow.

    2) You have a haste action available. If dashing using haste was insufficient to get you into melee range then you could use the free object interaction to sheath the sword and the haste action to pull out the bow leaving your attack action to attack something else. If you have already used your attack action for the turn then you can still swap the weapons but won't be able to attack.

    3) You could action surge to obtain the extra action needed to equip the bow after sheathing the sword.

    However, the issue is really that sheathing a sword and pulling a bow both take time while dropping the sword doesn't. The combat round is typically too short to sheath a weapon, equip a weapon and still have time to attack with the weapon ... so the rules only give you the one free object interaction and if you want to do more then you have to spend the time (and corresponding action) to complete the task.

  16. - Top - End - #16
    Pixie in the Playground
     
    SolithKnightGuy

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    Default Re: Switching to bow without sword clattering on the ground

    Brilliant! so much great input, I'm always grateful for the help I receive here. I'll just touch on some of them:

    -Javelin: hadn't thought of it, had never thrown one. I didn't realize finesse meant applying strength! great solution - I WAS within 30 feet.

    -use up haste action to dash and get opportunity attack. Also brilliant. Although, I was not thinking that they would burrow to safety and I didn't want to just sit there amongst them. though now I see I would have been able to use riposte if they had missed...

    -I think maybe I'll talk to DM about getting a magical cord I can tie to my waist or shoulder that easily stretches with movement (it's a greatsword) and brings sword to hip when dropped. but, I can also just carry javelin.

    "You had a choice whether to drop the sword or not; you chose not to. If you never have to make meaningful choices, you're not in an interesting game." Inspirational stuff! helps me love the game.

    -ohhhh, so object interaction is it's own action in the economy, different from bonus?? Man, I didn't know...I'll look that up. *later* Huh, and it's different from use item. Well I've learned. But hast action to put item away and object interaction to draw bow leaves me with no action to shoot. Just more knowledge of how this works.

    -Hand crossbow - good idea! keep it loaded during fights...interesting.

    -Yes, the short bow would have yielded little damage, but injured drakes were perhaps that low. Maybe not. Good point. Archery isn't going to make me feel good like bifurcating the living.

    _no gloves of storing in 5e

    -I'd grapple or or two of them, but they're already in the ground. and no way to get to them... Wizard through of making me a badger, but burrow 10ft vs their 20p'

    I'll go with a few javelins on my back and strong cord from my shoulder to weapon.

  17. - Top - End - #17
    Colossus in the Playground
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    Default Re: Switching to bow without sword clattering on the ground

    Quote Originally Posted by Valcor View Post
    -I'd grapple or or two of them, but they're already in the ground. and no way to get to them... Wizard through of making me a badger, but burrow 10ft vs their 20p'
    If you can get a diagonal axis on them you might be able to intercept them. They have no Tremorsense so they don't know if/where you're coming for them precisely. All they have to work with is their hearing. Additionally, land generally isn't burrowable infinitely deep; they can't burrow in base rock for instance (some creatures can but that's a different matter). Thus you might be able to corner them underground depending on the lay of the land.
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  18. - Top - End - #18
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    BlueKnightGuy

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    Default Re: Switching to bow without sword clattering on the ground

    We have a “switch-hiiter” Battlemaster in our party.
    He uses bow and sword, switching frequently to make use of pushing attacks, disarms, or tripping attacks at range or melee.

    He fights with sword in one hand and bow in the other, and makes use of the free object interaction each round allowed in the rules to switch as needed.

    Things really took off for him late game when he picked up an animated shield.

  19. - Top - End - #19
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    ClericGuy

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    Default Re: Switching to bow without sword clattering on the ground

    Quote Originally Posted by Floogal View Post
    To me, this seems to be the trade-off you make with melee hand-usage:

    2-handed weapon: more damage
    2-weapon fighting: more attacks
    1-handed & shield: more AC
    1-handed & miscellaneous: versatility (carry something, hang from cliff, grapple, have readied ranged weapon, etc.)
    Agreed. Your choice has meaningful consequences (something I like in a rule system).

  20. - Top - End - #20
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Laserlight's Avatar

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    Default Re: Switching to bow without sword clattering on the ground

    Quote Originally Posted by greenstone View Post
    Agreed. Your choice has meaningful consequences (something I like in a rule system).
    Any DM worth his salt is going to be thinking "Bob wants to do A and B"--or in this case, "avoid A and do B"--and then smirk and say "how can I put those desires in conflict?"
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    Tactical Precepts: 1) Cause chaos, then exploit it; 2) No plan survives contact with...(sigh)...my subordinates.

  21. - Top - End - #21
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    PaladinGuy

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    Default Re: Switching to bow without sword clattering on the ground

    Why not hold your bow in your left hand and use your sword in your right hand, use your free interaction with an object to sheath your sword, and just attack with your bow?

  22. - Top - End - #22
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    NinjaGuy

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    Default Re: Switching to bow without sword clattering on the ground

    3 levels of Thief Rogue will give you bonus damage on your bow (and other ranged/finesse weapons) and allow you to flawlessly Dash, Disengage, Hide, and Use Objects with bonus actions. Also expertise.

    EKs can bond with any weapons, not just non-magical ones. You can literally just drop the weapon whilst flying, draw bow with Free Object interaction, shoot with your bow, and summon SirStabsalot back to your hand as a bonus action before it hits anything. Next turn, you can stow the bow with the free object interaction and get back to slashing.
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