Support the GITP forums on Patreon
Help support GITP's forums (and ongoing server maintenance) via Patreon
Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 30 of 73
  1. - Top - End - #1
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Segev's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location

    Default Necromancers have the toughest homonculi

    Now, obviously, this reeks of "exploit," so it may be nixed by some DMs, but the way the homonculus spell is written, you can roll up to half your HD and add your Con modifier to each one you roll. Your hit point maximum is reduced by that amount, and your homonculus gains that amount as both current and maximum hp.

    Both by the RAW, and arguably within the spirit of the class, the 12th level necromancer cannot have his maximum hp reduced, and the homonculus still gains that many hp. So there's no reason for the necromancer to ever NOT roll half his hit dice for this.

    Now, it sounds like an exploit, but it is directly a result of the RAW, and the spirit of the Necromancer power is one of controlling the flow of life energy (particularly his own). So transferring somebody else's life, or sharing his own by duplicating it rather than transferring it, sounds like the kind of thing they'd do.

    Still not super powerful. It's just a homonculus. But it's a very durable one without sacrificing its master's durability.

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    SolithKnightGuy

    Join Date
    Sep 2018

    Default Re: Necromancers have the toughest homonculi

    As a DM I would absolutely allow this. Any time I see people shoot down something like this a little part of me dies.

    A. It's not in anyway broken. A Homunculus that has half of your piddly d6 extra HP isn't going to be a tanking powerhouse.
    B. DMs, if your player finds some synergy within their class features why would you want to shut it down? To make them feel like their class is just a collection of unrelated bits and bobs and that they aren't allowed to combine things? Now if that synergy violates my previous point, then feel free to stop it.

    A necromancer with a 115 HP Homunculus isn't that terrifying, and that's 10 hit die rolled with a 20 Con and PERFECT rolls on the d6s... More reasonably it's going to have around 60 HP at level 20. That's with average rolls on 10d6 and a 14 con.

    It's a neat synergy that I'd not thought of before but will certainly point it out if I ever have a high level Necromancy Wizard in my games.

    Edit: The most "broken" this could get is a 20 Con wizard that takes their last 8 levels in Barbarian to get 8d12 hit dice and use those. 8d12 + 2d6 + 50 + 5 = an average of 114 HP. But requires one of the most pointless and weak multiclasses possible.
    Last edited by Galithar; 2020-03-27 at 12:44 PM.

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    BlueKnightGuy

    Join Date
    Aug 2018
    Location
    Between SEA and PDX.
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Necromancers have the toughest homonculi

    I agree. I'd even suspect it was intentional to do that. Necromancers don't have many opportunities to reduce their maximum HP, and Homonculus was added after the Necromancer was made. I doubt it's an oversight.
    Quote Originally Posted by KOLE View Post
    MOG, design a darn RPG system. Seriously, the amount of ideas Iíve gleaned from your posts has been valuable. Youíre a gem of the community here.
    Quote Originally Posted by Man_Over_Game View Post

    5th Edition Homebrewery

    Prestige Options, changing primary attributes to open a world of new multiclassing.
    Adrenaline Surge, fitting Short Rests into combat to fix bosses/Short Rest Classes.
    Pain, using Exhaustion to make tactical martial combatants.
    Fate Sorcery, lucky winner of the 5e D&D Subclass Contest VII!

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    GnomeWizardGuy

    Join Date
    Aug 2016

    Default Re: Necromancers have the toughest homonculi

    This is the tip of iceberg with regards to necromancer exploits. This one is so exceedingly tame by comparison most DM's would be fine with this one imho as it's clearly working within it's designed parameters.

    (For clarity, go look into Inured to Undeath with Magic Jar, Shapechange or the Aid spell or tell me how much INT an Ancient White Dracolich has for Command Undead. Cheers mate!)
    Last edited by TheUser; 2020-03-27 at 12:44 PM.

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Segev's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location

    Default Re: Necromancers have the toughest homonculi

    I agree; it likely was intentional, and if it wasn't, it certainly isn't broken. I just know that there are people out there who see a PC who finds a way to circumvent a cost while getting a benefit and say, "uh, no." It takes a lot to convince them that it's not broken, or that there's a hidden cost (e.g. "I took 12 levels of necromancer," which, being an opportunity cost and having other benefits, rings hollow to some folks) that makes it okay.

    But my main purpose was to share this neat little interaction, so I'm glad it has brought something new to others' attention. (I noticed it last night as I was paging through my Xanathar's Guide.)

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Titan in the Playground
    Join Date
    Oct 2014

    Default Re: Necromancers have the toughest homonculi

    Quote Originally Posted by Segev View Post
    Now, obviously, this reeks of "exploit," so it may be nixed by some DMs, but the way the homonculus spell is written, you can roll up to half your HD and add your Con modifier to each one you roll. Your hit point maximum is reduced by that amount, and your homonculus gains that amount as both current and maximum hp.

    Both by the RAW, and arguably within the spirit of the class, the 12th level necromancer cannot have his maximum hp reduced, and the homonculus still gains that many hp. So there's no reason for the necromancer to ever NOT roll half his hit dice for this.
    Unless you have a better use for those HD, like saving them to recover with if you get wounded, instead of spending them on your familiar every day.
    Purple text = personal judgment which I don't expect you necessarily to share. YMMV.

    Everything on the Internet is opinion but purple text is my way of highlighting that I am not interested in persuading you to share mine.

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Segev's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location

    Default Re: Necromancers have the toughest homonculi

    Quote Originally Posted by MaxWilson View Post
    Unless you have a better use for those HD, like saving them to recover with if you get wounded, instead of spending them on your familiar every day.
    While I wouldn't argue too hard with a DM who wanted to rule that they were expended, I note that it doesn't actually say that they are. Maybe there's text in the short rest rules about how rolling them for any reason counts that I'm forgetting. But I don't actually think that the RAW would have them expended from doing this. Again, wouldn't fault a DM for ruling that they are. But I am interested in learning if there's anything that would indicate they are in the RAW themselves.
    Last edited by Segev; 2020-03-27 at 02:47 PM.

  8. - Top - End - #8
    Titan in the Playground
    Join Date
    Oct 2014

    Default Re: Necromancers have the toughest homonculi

    Quote Originally Posted by Segev View Post
    While I wouldn't argue too hard with a DM who wanted to rule that they were expended, I note that it doesn't actually say that they are. Maybe there's text in the short rest rules about how rolling them for any reason counts that I'm forgetting. But I don't actually think that the RAW would have them expended from doing this. Again, wouldn't fault a DM for ruling that they are. But I am interested in learning if there's anything that would indicate they are in the RAW themselves.
    Create Homonculus:
    While speaking an intricate incantation, you cut yourself with a jewel-encrusted dagger, taking 2d4 piercing damage that canít be reduced in any way. You then drip your blood on the spellís other components and touch them, transforming them into a special construct called a homunculus. The statistics of the homunculus are in the Monster Manual. It is your faithful companion, and it dies if you die. Whenever you finish a long rest, you can spend up to half your Hit Dice if the homunculus is on the same plane of existence as you. When you do so, roll each die and add your Constitution modifier to it. Your hit point maximum is reduced by the total, and the homunculusís hit point maximum and current hit points are both increased by it. This process can reduce you to no lower than 1 hit point. and the change to your and the homunculusís hit points ends when you finish your next long rest. The reduction to your hit point maximum canít be removed by any means before then, except by the homunculusĎs death. You can have only one homunculus at a time. If you cast this spell while your homunculus lives, the spell fails.

    Once they're spent, they're spent, just like during a short rest. You have to long rest to get them back.
    Purple text = personal judgment which I don't expect you necessarily to share. YMMV.

    Everything on the Internet is opinion but purple text is my way of highlighting that I am not interested in persuading you to share mine.

  9. - Top - End - #9
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Segev's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location

    Default Re: Necromancers have the toughest homonculi

    Quote Originally Posted by MaxWilson View Post
    Create Homonculus:
    While speaking an intricate incantation, you cut yourself with a jewel-encrusted dagger, taking 2d4 piercing damage that canít be reduced in any way. You then drip your blood on the spellís other components and touch them, transforming them into a special construct called a homunculus. The statistics of the homunculus are in the Monster Manual. It is your faithful companion, and it dies if you die. Whenever you finish a long rest, you can spend up to half your Hit Dice if the homunculus is on the same plane of existence as you. When you do so, roll each die and add your Constitution modifier to it. Your hit point maximum is reduced by the total, and the homunculusís hit point maximum and current hit points are both increased by it. This process can reduce you to no lower than 1 hit point. and the change to your and the homunculusís hit points ends when you finish your next long rest. The reduction to your hit point maximum canít be removed by any means before then, except by the homunculusĎs death. You can have only one homunculus at a time. If you cast this spell while your homunculus lives, the spell fails.

    Once they're spent, they're spent, just like during a short rest. You have to long rest to get them back.
    Fair enough. Serves me right for missing the obvious. Thanks for clearly pointing it out!

  10. - Top - End - #10
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    SolithKnightGuy

    Join Date
    Sep 2018

    Default Re: Necromancers have the toughest homonculi

    Oh God that makes it terrible. It's already a high level spell for something that is barely better then a familiar (and actually worse in some respects). Realizing that you have to SPEND a health recovery resource to make it not die when a goblin sneezes in it AND that you actually get hurt when you do it (exception for the Necromancer obviously) makes this spell in the running for my top ten most useless spells.

  11. - Top - End - #11
    Pixie in the Playground
     
    NecromancerGuy

    Join Date
    Sep 2019
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Necromancers have the toughest homonculi

    (For clarity, go look into Inured to Undeath with Magic Jar, Shapechange or the Aid spell or tell me how much INT an Ancient White Dracolich has for Command Undead. Cheers mate!)
    It is slightly off-topic but can you please explain what is so synergetic with Inured to Undeath and Magic Jar?

  12. - Top - End - #12
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    SolithKnightGuy

    Join Date
    Sep 2018

    Default Re: Necromancers have the toughest homonculi

    Quote Originally Posted by Ekzanimus View Post
    It is slightly off-topic but can you please explain what is so synergetic with Inured to Undeath and Magic Jar?
    This part of the spell
    Once you possess a creature's body, you control it. Your game statistics are replaced by the statistics of the creature
    Which with a strict RAW reading means that if you magic jar into the body of a creature with a higher max hit points, even upon returning to your body your max HP cannot be reduced. Therefore you keep the HP of the target permanently.

    As far as I know that's the best you can do with the combo and the availability of Humanoids with exceptionally high hit points isn't really that great. Maybe I'm missing something else.l though because I think Shapechange is far more powerful combination.

    Shapechange is for less restrictive in what you can become and has access to any non-undead/non-construct of CR = to your level or lower.

    So if you can manage to lay eyes on Ogremoch you can have a permanent 526 hit points. If at that point you then throw on a level 9 Aid you get up to 566.

  13. - Top - End - #13
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    GnomeWizardGuy

    Join Date
    Aug 2016

    Default Re: Necromancers have the toughest homonculi

    Quote Originally Posted by Ekzanimus View Post
    It is slightly off-topic but can you please explain what is so synergetic with Inured to Undeath and Magic Jar?
    Key to all of this is that throughout the whole process "You retain the benefit of your own class features. If the target has any class levels, you canít use any of its class features."

    Magic Jar has a few design nuances to differentiate it from Wildshape or Shapechange such that when you possess a new body all your class levels still contribute to your maximum HP (it lacks the "You assume the hit points and Hit Dice of the new form" clause). If you try to extrapolate what class levels represent contributing to HP means narratively it follows; you gain experience in avoiding death during combat, this applies while you're still using a humanoid body type (Magic Jar) and doesn't when you turn into a Bear or a Ogremoch (Wildshape/Shapechange).

    So if you possess a creature like say...a CR 13 Warlord your maximum HP is surges up to 319.

    The other key element is that you have never lost access to Inured to Undeath. So if the possession ends the Necromancer has 319 HP forever because their "maximum hit points cannot be reduced." and all the replacements are replacements to "your" stat block.

    So yeah... RAW, Inured to Undeath is bonkers.




    To digress back to the conversation, anyone thinking that spending hit dice as a necromancer is troublesome, I refer you to Grim Harvest, the feature which heals 2 HP per kill per spell level. So long as the spell deals damage on the enemy's turn (Wall of Fire, Evard's Black Tentacles, Sickening Radiance, Flaming Sphere etc. etc.) the healing gets pretty nuts. You'll probably hardly ever need to spend hit dice if you use damage spells that play around this feature.

    My go-to example that I wheel out is wall of fire killing 3 enemies, that heals 24 HP which is equivalent to a free level 4 cure wounds.
    Last edited by TheUser; 2020-03-28 at 07:56 AM.

  14. - Top - End - #14
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    SolithKnightGuy

    Join Date
    Sep 2018

    Default Re: Necromancers have the toughest homonculi

    Quote Originally Posted by TheUser View Post
    Key to all of this is that throughout the whole process "You retain the benefit of your own class features. If the target has any class levels, you can’t use any of its class features."

    Magic Jar has a few design nuances to differentiate it from Wildshape or Shapechange such that when you possess a new body all your class levels still contribute to your maximum HP (it lacks the "You assume the hit points and Hit Dice of the new form" clause). If you try to extrapolate what class levels represent contributing to HP means narratively it follows; you gain experience in avoid death during combat, this applies while you're still using a humanoid body type (Magic Jar) and doesn't when you turn into a Bear or a Ogremoch (Wildshape/Shapechange).

    So if you possess a creature like say...a CR 13 Warlord your maximum HP is surges up to 319.

    The other key element is that you have never lost access to Inured to Undeath. So if the possession ends the Necromancer has 319 HP forever because their "maximum hit points cannot be reduced." and all the replacements are replacements to "your" stat block.

    So yeah... RAW, Inured to Undeath is bonkers.




    To digress back to the conversation, anyone thinking that spending hit dice as a necromancer is troublesome, I refer you to Grim Harvest, the feature which heals 2 HP per kill per spell level. So long as the spell deals damage on the enemy's turn (Wall of Fire, Evard's Black Tentacles, Sickening Radiance, Flaming Sphere etc. etc.) the healing gets pretty nuts. You'll probably hardly ever need to spend hit dice if you use damage spells that play around this feature.

    My go-to example that I wheel out is wall of fire killing 3 enemies, that heals 24 HP which is equivalent to a free level 4 cure wounds.

    Ah that's what I was missing. Now I see why Majic Jar works better for this, and Shapechange doesn't. Thanks!


    Edit: It's also awesome that you answered everything in my post even though I know we were writing them at the same time! Lol
    Last edited by Galithar; 2020-03-28 at 07:55 AM.

  15. - Top - End - #15
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    GnomeWizardGuy

    Join Date
    Aug 2016

    Default Re: Necromancers have the toughest homonculi

    Quote Originally Posted by Galithar View Post
    Ah that's what I was missing. Now I see why Majic Jar works better for this, and Shapechange doesn't. Thanks!


    Edit: It's also awesome that you answered everything in my post even though I know we were writing them at the same time! Lol
    Shapechange is actually much better because you have access to much higher HP forms.

    Ogremoch at level 20 is 526 HP which cannot be replicated by Magic Jar
    It just also happens to come online a full 9 levels after Magic Jar...
    Last edited by TheUser; 2020-03-28 at 08:16 AM.

  16. - Top - End - #16
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    EvilClericGuy

    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Somewhere
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Necromancers have the toughest homonculi

    Max HP reduction is a what some monster attacks (like wight's Life Drain) and other abilities (like the homunculus) do.

    Basically, that "RAW reading" depends on treating abilities that don't say they reduce your maximum HP as if they did.
    It's Eberron, not ebberon.
    It's not high magic, it's wide magic.
    And it's definitely not steampunk. The only time steam gets involved is when the fire and water elementals get loose.

  17. - Top - End - #17
    Titan in the Playground
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    The Land of Cleves
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Necromancers have the toughest homonculi

    By that argument, Aid would be a permanent increase to everyone, not just to necromancers.
    Time travels in divers paces with divers persons.
    óAs You Like It, III:ii:328

    Chronos's Unalliterative Skillmonkey Guide
    Current Homebrew: 5th edition psionics

  18. - Top - End - #18
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Segev's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location

    Default Re: Necromancers have the toughest homonculi

    Quote Originally Posted by Chronos View Post
    By that argument, Aid would be a permanent increase to everyone, not just to necromancers.
    Not really. The argument centers on a concept that there's a difference between "reducing maximum hp" and "repealing a bonus to maximum hp."

  19. - Top - End - #19
    Titan in the Playground
    Join Date
    Oct 2014

    Default Re: Necromancers have the toughest homonculi

    Quote Originally Posted by Chronos View Post
    By that argument, Aid would be a permanent increase to everyone, not just to necromancers.
    I'd think Magic Jar would be a better example. Aid at least says your maximum HP is increased "for the duration", whereas Magic Jar just says you acquire the victim's statistics, with no explicit clause saying when you lose them. (Sane DMs, if course, know that you're only supposed to have their stats while in their body, but a rules lawyer who would argue for keeping HP might well argue for keeping e.g. immunity to normal weapons and increased Str/Con as well. In for a penny, in for a pound.)
    Last edited by MaxWilson; 2020-03-30 at 10:22 AM.

  20. - Top - End - #20
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    GnomeWizardGuy

    Join Date
    Aug 2016

    Default Re: Necromancers have the toughest homonculi

    Quote Originally Posted by JackPhoenix View Post
    Max HP reduction is a what some monster attacks (like wight's Life Drain) and other abilities (like the homunculus) do.

    Basically, that "RAW reading" depends on treating abilities that don't say they reduce your maximum HP as if they did.
    No Jack it's treating the word "reduced" to mean what it means; taking a bigger number and making it a smaller number. If you have Y hitpoints and Y=X+20 hp from the Aid spell then taking away the +20 "reduces" the value of Y. If Y can't be reduced then you can't get rid of the +20.

    It's RAW vs RAI....And who's to say this is not the intent? A necromancer grasping onto whatever life force they can obtain and holding onto it sounds pretty cannon. A necromancer wizard with mastery over life as well as death.
    Last edited by TheUser; 2020-03-30 at 10:30 AM.

  21. - Top - End - #21
    Titan in the Playground
    Join Date
    Oct 2014

    Default Re: Necromancers have the toughest homonculi

    Quote Originally Posted by TheUser View Post
    No Jack it's treating the word "reduced" to mean what it means; taking a bigger number and making it a smaller number. If you have Y hitpoints and Y=X+20 hp from the Aid spell then taking away the +20 "reduces" the value of Y. If Y can't be reduced then you can't get rid of the +20.
    Therefore by RAW by this interpretation, Necromancers are immortal because even killing them does not reduce their max HP to zero, and they will regain positive HP as soon as they short rest.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheUser View Post
    It's RAW vs RAI....And who's to say this is not the intent? A necromancer grasping onto whatever life force they can obtain and holding onto it sounds pretty cannon. A necromancer wizard with mastery over life as well as death.
    And who's to say immortal necromancers aren't the intent? An evil wizard immune to death because his life is hidden elsewhere is a trope as old as folklore.
    Last edited by MaxWilson; 2020-03-30 at 11:37 AM.
    Purple text = personal judgment which I don't expect you necessarily to share. YMMV.

    Everything on the Internet is opinion but purple text is my way of highlighting that I am not interested in persuading you to share mine.

  22. - Top - End - #22
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    GnomeWizardGuy

    Join Date
    Aug 2016

    Default Re: Necromancers have the toughest homonculi

    Quote Originally Posted by MaxWilson View Post
    Therefore by RAW by this interpretation, Necromancers are immortal because even killing them does not reduce their max HP to zero, and they will regain positive HP as soon as they short rest.



    And who's to say immortal necromancers aren't the intent? An evil wizard immune to death because his life is hidden elsewhere is a trope as old as folklore.
    Being deliberately obtuse to win an argument?

    Death doesn't reduce max hp nor is it contingent on reducing max HP. Feel free to dredge up a relevant RAW quote to prove me wrong.

  23. - Top - End - #23
    Titan in the Playground
    Join Date
    Oct 2014

    Default Re: Necromancers have the toughest homonculi

    Quote Originally Posted by TheUser View Post
    Being deliberately obtuse to win an argument?
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reductio_ad_absurdum
    Purple text = personal judgment which I don't expect you necessarily to share. YMMV.

    Everything on the Internet is opinion but purple text is my way of highlighting that I am not interested in persuading you to share mine.

  24. - Top - End - #24
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    GnomeWizardGuy

    Join Date
    Aug 2016

    Default Re: Necromancers have the toughest homonculi

    Max, until you can prove RAW that dying is contingent on reducing maximum hitpoints saying that Inured to Undeath makes you functionally immortal isn't accurate.

    I'm more than happy to eat my words if you can pull up RAW that says otherwise...

  25. - Top - End - #25
    Titan in the Playground
    Join Date
    Oct 2014

    Default Re: Necromancers have the toughest homonculi

    Quote Originally Posted by TheUser View Post
    Max, until you can prove RAW that dying is contingent on reducing maximum hitpoints saying that Inured to Undeath makes you functionally immortal isn't accurate.
    You've insisted that a Necromancer's inability to have his max HP reduced is absolute, and furthermore that the revocation of a bonus to HP is also prevented. (There is no RAW support for this interpretation of "reduced", it's just an equivalence which you've insisted on.) You've even claimed that effects which let you temporarily use some other form's stats, like Shapechange, also are prevented from ending w/rt HP, because you count that as a reduction to maximum HP as well.

    Normally a dead creature is subject to the limitation "A creature that has died canít regain Hit Points until magic such as the Revivify spell has restored it to life", and it would be absurd to claim that this constitutes an effective reduction in max HP and that this rule therefore does not apply to Necromancers--but it would not be more absurd than the claims you're already making. You've claimed in your defense that your interpretation of Magic Jar/etc. yields results which can be interpreted as refusal to give up life force, which is in keeping with the thematic spirit of necromancy--well, likewise immortality is in keeping with the thematic spirit of necromancy. But immortality through this means is obviously not the intent of Inured to Undeath.

    Edit: Another implication of your interpretation of "reduced" is that because Greater Restoration can end "any reduction to one of the target's ability scores", casting Greater Restoration after a True Polymorph could permanently increase your Str/Dex/Con/Int/Wis/Cha back to whatever levels they were during the True Polymorph (Pit Fiend Str 26, Con 24, Int 22, Cha 24). Obviously that's an absurdity. That's not what "reduction" means in 5E.

    A context-free, expansive and absolute interpretation of "resistance to necrotic damage, and your hit point maximum can't be reduced. You have spent so much time dealing with undead and the forces that animate them that you have become inured to some of their worst effects" leads to absurdity. QED.
    Last edited by MaxWilson; 2020-03-30 at 02:06 PM.
    Purple text = personal judgment which I don't expect you necessarily to share. YMMV.

    Everything on the Internet is opinion but purple text is my way of highlighting that I am not interested in persuading you to share mine.

  26. - Top - End - #26
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    EvilClericGuy

    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Somewhere
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Necromancers have the toughest homonculi

    Quote Originally Posted by TheUser View Post
    It's RAW vs RAI....And who's to say this is not the intent? A necromancer grasping onto whatever life force they can obtain and holding onto it sounds pretty cannon. A necromancer wizard with mastery over life as well as death.
    Speaking of "mastery over life", necromancer with Inured to Undeath (which should tell you what the intent of the ability is: make the necromancer more resistant to attacks from undead creatures, even if you ignore the description itself outright saying so. And transforming himself is not in any way "obtaining life force", no matter what cannon you're shooting in the process) is the worst wizard at using Life Transference. Its healing depends on the necrotic damage the caster takes, and necromancers are resistant to necrotic damage.
    Last edited by JackPhoenix; 2020-03-30 at 03:51 PM.
    It's Eberron, not ebberon.
    It's not high magic, it's wide magic.
    And it's definitely not steampunk. The only time steam gets involved is when the fire and water elementals get loose.

  27. - Top - End - #27

    Default Re: Necromancers have the toughest homonculi

    Quote Originally Posted by JackPhoenix View Post
    Speaking of "mastery over life", necromancer with Inured to Undeath (which should tell you what the intent of the ability is: make the necromancer more resistant to attacks from undead creatures, even if you ignore the description itself outright saying so. And transforming himself is not in any way "obtaining life force", no matter what cannon you're shooting in the process) is the worst wizard at using Life Transference. Its healing depends on the necrotic damage the caster takes, and necromancers are resistant to necrotic damage.
    3-6 levels of Shepherd Druid really unlocks a lot of potential for the Necromancer.

  28. - Top - End - #28
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    EvilClericGuy

    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Somewhere
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Necromancers have the toughest homonculi

    Quote Originally Posted by col_impact View Post
    3-6 levels of Shepherd Druid really unlocks a lot of potential for the Necromancer.
    How? Unicorn spirit's healing (of 3 hp) and bear spirit's 8 THP is not worth losing 3 wizard levels, and Mighty Summons has zero synergy with necromancer.
    It's Eberron, not ebberon.
    It's not high magic, it's wide magic.
    And it's definitely not steampunk. The only time steam gets involved is when the fire and water elementals get loose.

  29. - Top - End - #29
    Troll in the Playground
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Location
    SD
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Necromancers have the toughest homonculi

    Quote Originally Posted by JackPhoenix View Post
    How? Unicorn spirit's healing (of 3 hp) and bear spirit's 8 THP is not worth losing 3 wizard levels, and Mighty Summons has zero synergy with necromancer.
    Not alot, but those THP do work on undead minions and the unicorn spirit allows you to heal them as well. Not worth the dip alone but you get some other goodies as well.
    Last edited by stoutstien; 2020-03-30 at 04:58 PM.

  30. - Top - End - #30
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    EvilClericGuy

    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Somewhere
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Necromancers have the toughest homonculi

    Quote Originally Posted by stoutstien View Post
    Not alot, but those THP do work on undead minions and the unicorn spirit allows you to heal them as well. Not worth the dip alone but you get some other goodies as well.
    You can pick Inspiring Leader. Even if you dump Cha, that's still 7-19 THP per short rest at levels where having 3 levels of druid on a wizard with undead minions (who'll have 3 HP more for pure necromancer) can be relevant, and Healer gives 9.5 or 10.5 hp per short rest back to skeletons and zombies, respectively, with some minor gold cost attached. Though both have opportunity cost of a feat, necromancer isn't very MAD, so you can afford it, if you really want to. You'll have one extra ASI compared to the multiclasses wizard too, so that's nice.
    Last edited by JackPhoenix; 2020-03-30 at 05:07 PM.
    It's Eberron, not ebberon.
    It's not high magic, it's wide magic.
    And it's definitely not steampunk. The only time steam gets involved is when the fire and water elementals get loose.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •