Solly the Gnome: Overlooked Power Combo?

[DrFunkenstein]

TL;DR: Forest Gnome Moon Druid/Barbarian/Paladin/Rogue is an unusually powerful combo that deserves to be recognised.

Slightly longer TL;DR: Gnome Cunning, Barbarian Rage, Moon Druid Combat Wildshape, Paladin Divine Smite, and Rogue Expertise & Cunning Action synergize on an extraordinary level that I haven't seen publicized elsewhere.

"You cannot stop me; I spend a dozen spell slot levels a round."
- Napoleon Bonaparte

Hello GitP community! Long-time lurker, first time poster, so I figured I'd write a post about my first serious 5e character from 2014: Solly the Gnome. He was initially designed to succeed at three things:

1. Be a nice guy. I was starting to play D&D Encounters at a comic book store where I didn't know anyone, so I wanted my introductory character to be super-friendly. Gotta make a good impression!

2. Kick butt at 3rd level. I was joining a pre-existing party playing Hoard of the Dragon Queen, and was starting at 3rd level. Remember how I wanted to make a good impression with a nice character? I also wanted to make a good impression with a BAMF character who could contribute to the crew.

3. Build a grappler Anyone who's played long enough remembers how messy 3.x's rules were for grappling, though even that was an improvement over AD&D's lack of support. 5e finally did a good job, so I wanted to give it a whirl.

Putting all this together, I looked over the PHB to find a path. What I stumbled upon is, I believe to this day, one of the most diesel character builds in the Core Books.

A chipper gnome who loves nature, talks to animals, and just wants everyone to get along seemed like a good fit for the "nice guy" element, but the power-game key here is Gnome Cunning. Getting Advantage on all Int, Wis, Cha saves vs. Magic in both base and beast form is huge. It states in the Druid's Wild Shape ability, you "retain your alignment, personality, and Intelligence, Wisdom, and Charisma scores. You also retain all of your skill and saving throw proficiencies," and "retain the benefit of any features from your... race... and can use them if the new form is physically capable of doing so." [PHB 67] It stands to reason that a Wild Shaped Gnome is still just as cunning as a regular Gnome, and there's no physical impediment to the beast form using this racial ability. Seems legit, RAW.

For Grappling, the Barbarian Rage's Advantage to Strength (Athletics) checks is attractive. The crazy part combined with Wild Shape, though, is Damage Resistance. When Solly is Raging and Wild Shaped, he's ignoring half the damage, and the half that gets through is coming out of his Wild Shape's pool. If he runs out and he's had at least a Short Rest, he can just reactivate his Wild Shape when the first one goes down.

BUT WAIT: I can also use my spell slots to heal my Wild Shape HP as a Bonus Action! Nothing about Barbarian Rage's prohibition on casting or concentrating on spells prevents me from "expend[ing]" spell slots [PHB 48 & 69]. This comes up again later with the Paladin's Divine Smite.

For kicking butt at 3rd level, this build comes online at 3rd Level - 1st level Barbarian, 2nd Level Moon Druid, and boy does it kick butt. I went with Brown Bear; it's usually a glass cannon, but the Damage Resistance compensates for that (as does Unarmored Defense to a lesser extent). The Barbarian Rage +2 damage also applies to both of the Brown Bear's attacks, as Rage bonus damage applies "when you make a melee weapon attack using Strength[.]" [PHB 48] The Brown Bear's attacks are listed as "Melee Weapon Attack[s]" and appear to use Strength, based on their Damage bonus [PHB 304]. This is a big addition at lower levels, and 18 Str + Advantage makes for good bear-hug grappling. Casting Longstrider in advance of the fight was icing on the cake - +10' Speed for an hour with no concentration (seriously, Longstrider is one of the most underrated spells in 5e) on top of the Bear's 40' is especially useful when you're grappling and can only move at half speed.

Despite all this munchkin goodness (a.k.a. abusive power-gamey bullcrap), he didn't piss off all the other players as "broken." Solly was locking down big bad enemies and absorbing their damage, which let everyone else continue to shine in their own respects. The DM saw this for what it was, though: a pit of despair for his monsters. Solly is a seemingly bottomless well of HP into which he was forced to pour most of his biggest monsters' damage while getting mauled by a berserking Brown Bear and anyone else in the party who wanted to join in with a ranged attack. The rest of the crew would usually wipe out the minions with flair, and then we'd all join hands and curb-stomp the boss. Then Solly would turn back into a gnome, say something friendly, and we'd all go home for milk and cookies.

As you might imagine, Solly was a blast to play and role-play, so I kept him for about a year, all the way to the final battle in Rise of Tiamat. Leveling up, I had to stay focused on Moon Druid to unlock better Wild Shape forms. Playing a CR 1 Brown Bear with a +5 attack bonus gets stale by Level 6. Along the way, I picked up Grappler to help mitigate the low attack bonus with its Advantage vs. Grappled foes. This was also back before the errata, so it seemed like Solly needed it to grapple the Gargantuan Bad Evil Guys. Getting Polar/Cave Bear and magic attacks at Druid Level 6/Character Level 7 was great, but unfortunately the CR3 forms at Druid Level 9 are pretty weak sauce. Not to worry, though: unlocking Elemental Wild Shape at Druid Level 10 makes up for it.

At that point, I had all I really wanted from Druid, so I went back to leveling up in Barbarian to get Bear Totem. At those high levels fighting Tiamat's brood, you can imagine there was a lot of non-basic damage flying around. To really round out the Grappler build, I kept going Barbarian to get Extra Attack so I could grapple and attack in the same round (this is not possible with a Wild Shape's Multiattack RAW). Barbarian Level 5 is good for the Fast Movement too. I also dipped Rogue for 2 levels to get Expertise in Athletics (+17 Athletics with Advantage and no size restrictions - come at me, Bahamut) and Cunning Action. Being able to dash and disengage while dragging the enormous boss monster around the battlefield like a chew toy is neat.

However, years later, I was taking a shower and realized the true masterstroke: Paladin! As a 10th level full caster, I had plenty of spell slots which had been used mostly for Combat Wild Shape healing. Divine Smite works "when you hit a creature with a melee weapon attack," [PHB 85], so it works with bear claws and Elemental slams RAW, just like the Barbarian Rage's bonus damage.

I could now burn a spell slot with every hit to power-slam the pitiful fool locked in my embrace, and burn another one as a Bonus Action to heal any damage that had gotten through my Damage Resistance. This is Bananas. With an effective caster level of 11, I could Nova and spend 14 spell slot levels in one round (2 max 4th-level Smites on two Multiattack hits & a 6th Level healing as a Bonus Action), and still have 33 spell slot levels to burn. Hence the Napoleon "quote."

So here he is, Solly Badger, Level 19:

-Forest Gnome (for Gnome Cunning)

-Str 13 (for multiclassing Barbarian; prerequisite for Grappler)
-Dex 14 (for multiclassing Rogue)
-Con 14
-Int 10 (lolz)
-Wis 13 (for multiclassing Druid; eventually 14 with Resilient)
-Cha 13 (for multiclassing Paladin; prerequisite for Inspiring Leader)

-Barbarian 5 (for Rage, Bear Totem, Extra Attack, Fast Movement)
-Druid 10 (for Moon Druid Combat Wild Shape, Elemental Wild Shape, lots of Spell Slots)
-Rogue 2 (for Expertise [Athletics], Cunning Action)
-Paladin 2 (for Divine Smite)

For Feats, Grappler has already been mentioned as important to the build/concept. Beyond that, I went with Resilient (Wisdom) at Druid Level 8 (good for resisting Dragon Fear) and Inspiring Leader at Barbarian Level 4/Character Level 14 (by that point he was the goodly cult leader of a tribe of Lizardfolk, so it was good for the RP beside being an awesome feat). Neither of those are that important to the build, though, and I never took an ASI.

Bottom Line: Lock down boss monsters, drag them around the battlefield, absorb their damage, and smite them senseless. Good times.

Thanks for reading!

[Contrast]

Just to say you seem to have missed how grappling larger targets works. The Grappler errata removed a bullet point that did nothing because it referred to a rule that didn't exist (must have been a drafting error or something between revisions). There is still a rule in the grapple section which says 'The target of your grapple must be no more than one size larger than you and must be within your reach'.

[DrFunkenstein]

Just to say you seem to have missed how grappling larger targets works. The Grappler errata removed a bullet point...

Yeah, I'm well aware of the errata now, but as I mentioned, Solly is older than the errata.

[Fable Wright]

"So you're level 11."
"Yep."
"You get to turn into a raging earth elemental."
"Yep."
"So you have resistance to bludgeoning/piercing/slashing."
"Y—wait."
"And you can't concentrate on spells."
"I'm beginning to question my decisions."
"But it's okay, because you have plus four whole damage on your two attacks. Not like any spells will get that level of damage."


(Ahem) Sorry, I'm being slightly facetious here.

The thing to remember is, Moon Druid can already do a lot of this stuff, without anywhere near the sacrifices to its spellcasting that you take.

At level 4, a single-classed Moon Druid can take cast Moonbeam and take Giant Octopus form. As a giant octopus, they can grapple a target 15ft away, so the target will not be able to hit them even with most Reach weapons. They can then drag the target into the Moonbeam for 2d10 damage on the first hit, and 2d10 damage immediately after, for 22 damage plus tentacle damage plus restrained.

At level 6, they can cast Conjure Animals to make eight constrictor snakes for more damage + lockdown than the grappler bear would. And Druid can choose to wildshape as well, or do the Moonbeam combo against magic damage resistant enemies.

At level 11, the Moon Druid can Conjure Fey an Annis Hag, Planar Bind it, and turn into an earth elemental, combining their DPS for massive damage. Or if that fails, Moonbeam combo with the auto grapple of the giant crocodile. 66 damage per round on 1+ targets with a 6th level Moonbeam is pretty impressive.

And then after a while you're comparing Beast Shape, Shapechange, Archdruid, and so on to the benefits of the build.

WITH ALL THAT SAID:

You're absolutely right that Barb 1/Moon Druid is super strong for large chunks of the game. Unarmored Defense combos well with bear forms to slightly mitigate the atrocious AC, the rage is good for conserving spell slots and when you need to tank instead of deal damage. After capping out Moon Druid progression, branching out is absolutely the correct option—and just about any dip class is going to have huge results if you don't want to focus on your increasingly powerful spellcasting. Paladin is a known combo with Moon Druid for the most NAD (non-attribute dependent) class combo, and Prodigy for Athletics Expertise and Paladin 6 would mean that you had more spells for smiting and upcasting than the Barbarian variant, as well as access to the almighty +Cha to saves.

Something like VHuman (Prodigy) Barb 1/Druid 11/Paladin 6/Fighter 2 would get the broad strokes down, the best of Druid summoning, +Cha to all saves, Channel Divinity options, spell doubling with Find Steed, access to Action Surge, the smites all around, and would be fairly solid elemental bruiser.

[Addaran]

At level 4, a single-classed Moon Druid can take cast Moonbeam and take Giant Octopus form. As a giant octopus, they can grapple a target 15ft away, so the target will not be able to hit them even with most Reach weapons. They can then drag the target into the Moonbeam for 2d10 damage on the first hit, and 2d10 damage immediately after, for 22 damage plus tentacle damage plus restrained.

That really doesn't make any sense. To grapple someone, you need to be in physical contact. Even if the body is out of reach, the tentacle is on the body, so the grappled character (not restrained) can attack it.

[Fable Wright]

That really doesn't make any sense. To grapple someone, you need to be in physical contact. Even if the body is out of reach, the tentacle is on the body, so the grappled character (not restrained) can attack it.

And yet, we live in a world of RAW. You are Restrained 15ft away from the giant octopus and are Grappled by it.

It is reasonable to house rule that grappled enemies are always considered within melee range of each other, but... that isn't the case.

[col_impact]

"So you're level 11."
"Yep."
"You get to turn into a raging earth elemental."
"Yep."
"So you have resistance to bludgeoning/piercing/slashing."
"Y—wait."
"And you can't concentrate on spells."
"I'm beginning to question my decisions."
"But it's okay, because you have plus four whole damage on your two attacks. Not like any spells will get that level of damage."


(Ahem) Sorry, I'm being slightly facetious here.

The thing to remember is, Moon Druid can already do a lot of this stuff, without anywhere near the sacrifices to its spellcasting that you take.

At level 4, a single-classed Moon Druid can take cast Moonbeam and take Giant Octopus form. As a giant octopus, they can grapple a target 15ft away, so the target will not be able to hit them even with most Reach weapons. They can then drag the target into the Moonbeam for 2d10 damage on the first hit, and 2d10 damage immediately after, for 22 damage plus tentacle damage plus restrained.

At level 6, they can cast Conjure Animals to make eight constrictor snakes for more damage + lockdown than the grappler bear would. And Druid can choose to wildshape as well, or do the Moonbeam combo against magic damage resistant enemies.

At level 11, the Moon Druid can Conjure Fey an Annis Hag, Planar Bind it, and turn into an earth elemental, combining their DPS for massive damage. Or if that fails, Moonbeam combo with the auto grapple of the giant crocodile. 66 damage per round on 1+ targets with a 6th level Moonbeam is pretty impressive.

And then after a while you're comparing Beast Shape, Shapechange, Archdruid, and so on to the benefits of the build.

WITH ALL THAT SAID:

You're absolutely right that Barb 1/Moon Druid is super strong for large chunks of the game. Unarmored Defense combos well with bear forms to slightly mitigate the atrocious AC, the rage is good for conserving spell slots and when you need to tank instead of deal damage. After capping out Moon Druid progression, branching out is absolutely the correct option—and just about any dip class is going to have huge results if you don't want to focus on your increasingly powerful spellcasting. Paladin is a known combo with Moon Druid for the most NAD (non-attribute dependent) class combo, and Prodigy for Athletics Expertise and Paladin 6 would mean that you had more spells for smiting and upcasting than the Barbarian variant, as well as access to the almighty +Cha to saves.

Something like VHuman (Prodigy) Barb 1/Druid 11/Paladin 6/Fighter 2 would get the broad strokes down, the best of Druid summoning, +Cha to all saves, Channel Divinity options, spell doubling with Find Steed, access to Action Surge, the smites all around, and would be fairly solid elemental bruiser.

You definitely want Shapechange and Foresight helping you out each day. Shapechange nets you all that Archdruid gives you and more, much more. So 17 Shepherd Druid/0-2 Paladin/0-2 Wizard (War Mage)/0-1 Monk/0-1 Barbarian/1 Life Cleric is the most optimal.

And gnome is a great way to go.

[Quoz]

While we're optimizing this absolutely MAD build...

I know that gnome was a key RP aspect to your original build, but Yuan-Ti magic resistance is gnome cunning on steroids. Advantage on any save vs magic, which is the vast majority of saving throws. Also total immunity to poison, which pairs nicely with some of the AoE spells you will pick up as a druid. (If we still want the nice guy/cute and cuddly theme, play as a more oriental inspired background and have all your bear shapes be pandas)

While restrained is a nice condition, it doesnt really justify the investment in the grappler feat. Just shove them prone, since grappled drops speed to 0 they can't stand up. Take the tavern brawler feat instead, so you can make grapple attacks as a bonus action while attacking.

As for the level split:
We want 10 levels in moon druid for elemental wild shape
5 levels in a martial class for extra attack
Paladin for smite
Barbarian for rage
Rogue for expertise

Starting / expected ending level is kind of important for how you break it down. If starting at 20 I would go druid 10/pal 6/ barb 3/ rogue 1. But if playing the levels in between I would probably go barb 1/ druid x and play it out from there.

[col_impact]

While we're optimizing this absolutely MAD build...

I know that gnome was a key RP aspect to your original build, but Yuan-Ti magic resistance is gnome cunning on steroids. Advantage on any save vs magic, which is the vast majority of saving throws. Also total immunity to poison, which pairs nicely with some of the AoE spells you will pick up as a druid. (If we still want the nice guy/cute and cuddly theme, play as a more oriental inspired background and have all your bear shapes be pandas)

While restrained is a nice condition, it doesnt really justify the investment in the grappler feat. Just shove them prone, since grappled drops speed to 0 they can't stand up. Take the tavern brawler feat instead, so you can make grapple attacks as a bonus action while attacking.

As for the level split:
We want 10 levels in moon druid for elemental wild shape
5 levels in a martial class for extra attack
Paladin for smite
Barbarian for rage
Rogue for expertise

Starting / expected ending level is kind of important for how you break it down. If starting at 20 I would go druid 10/pal 6/ barb 3/ rogue 1. But if playing the levels in between I would probably go barb 1/ druid x and play it out from there.

Why go five levels in martial class when Shapechange can net you 3-4 attacks at Druid 17?

[Xenken]

I appreciate the Moon Druid enthusiasm. I really really do. This strikes me as rather unnecessary, though.

Increasing health via rage or going 5 levels into an extra attack/smite class for damage when you could just get more health via beast forms and more damage through both that AND more and better spells. Taking feats to improve grappling when many beast attacks simply auto-restrain, etc.

Hell, the Giant Scorpion, one of the CR 3 beasts you passed over, has a multiattack+grapple that's easier than yours to land, does almost as much damage, and can disable even harder with something as small as Fog Cloud.

Even if you have weaker casting because summons are banned at your table or are otherwise made unusable, Moon Druid is probably the one class that punishes you the hardest for multiclassing out at any level that isn't 3 or 4, simply because staying in boosts 3 different things at the same time, all the way up until the best capstone in the entire game.

Paladin 6/Moon 6 sounds fun and I hope I get to try it some day, but I know it's super good at exactly that level and won't shine as much before OR after.

[Maan]

(If we still want the nice guy/cute and cuddly theme, play as a more oriental inspired background and have all your bear shapes be pandas)

As a side note, being killed by a panda really adds insult to injury.

[col_impact]

As a side note, being killed by a panda really adds insult to injury.

Nature-War-Life-Knowledge-Arcana-Tempest Cleric 1/Wizard 1/ Monk 1/ 17 Shepherd Druid

Mobility/ PAM / Warcaster/ Lucky/ Alert

Fun build to play.

[DrFunkenstein]

Hell, the Giant Scorpion, one of the CR 3 beasts you passed over, has a multiattack+grapple that's easier than yours to land, does almost as much damage, and can disable even harder with something as small as Fog Cloud.

'Fraid not. The Giant Scorpion has an attack bonus of +4, which is intolerably poor at Level 9. Compare that to Solly's Athletics +9 w/Advantage.

[DrFunkenstein]

"You get to turn into a raging earth elemental."
"Yep."
"So you have resistance to bludgeoning/piercing/slashing."
"Y—wait."
"And you can't concentrate on spells."

....


At level 4, a single-classed Moon Druid can take cast Moonbeam and take Giant Octopus form. As a giant octopus...

....

WITH ALL THAT SAID:

You're absolutely right that Barb 1/Moon Druid is super strong for large chunks of the game...

After capping out Moon Druid progression, branching out is absolutely the correct option..

Something like VHuman (Prodigy) Barb 1/Druid 11/Paladin 6/Fighter 2 ...

First off, let's note you start with your facetiousness, but wind up broadly agreeing with me ;)

Second, yeah, the Damage Resistance from Earth Elemental is somewhat overlapping at levels 11-12. That said, the Rage provides DR to ALL B/P/S, whereas the Earth Elemental is still vulnerable to magic weapons. At levels 11-12, that is a significant difference - the NPC villains we were facing were generally well-equipped.

At level 13, Bear Totem provides DR to ALL damage except Psychic. Obviously waaay better than the Earth Elemental. So this is a very strong DR combo at levels 3-10 and 13-20. Nit-picking two levels of merely stronger-than-usual DR is, well, nit-picking, don't you think?

Third, the giant octopus is a poor substitute for Solly the Raging Brown Bear (your druid might not even be capable of turning into one, as you need to have seen it before). The octopus needs to land a hit with a +5 attack to grapple, whereas Solly has Athletics +6 with Advantage. After grappling, the bear has a move of 40 (and a climb of 30!), which allows him to move opponents 20'+ around the field (maybe not while climbing, but the climbing definitely came in handy at other times).

The Octopus has a land move of 10, which gets cut to 5 when grappling. Ha. If you can't move the people you grapple, you're missing a huge part of why grappling is good. The restrain is nice, no doubt, but then it's a DC 16 to escape vs. contesting Solly's Athletics +6 with Advantage.

Fourth, any arguments based on Concentrating on spells don't fly. You're saying a caster without Con Save Proficiency should be depending on Concentration when tanking? No way. Every hit (which will be many - you're tanking with a low AC, until Earth Elemental) triggers at least a DC 10 save. Sure, you can get Resilient or Warcaster, but at higher levels the incoming damage is going to start pushing up that DC, and you're bound to boot a roll at some point with all those hits raining down.

Have fun with the summoned creatures that are no longer under your control and hostile to you! Lolz.

Fifth, if you go Paladin 6 instead of Barbarian 5, you're missing the Bear Totem DR. Remember, Solly is a tank more than anything else. Fighter's Action Surge is of course an amazing ability, but so's Cunning Action: bonus dash or disengagement is extremely useful to a grappler. The Expertise in Athletics grants an extra +6 bonus at those levels too.

I agree that the 20th level should be Druid 11 to get those cool 6th level spells that are useful out of combat.

Finally, Solly only uses Core Books. At first, this was because those were the only ones that existed at the time, haha. Now, it's because I detest the expansion materials. "Give us $50 and you get strictly better character options!" Yeah, that's what the company behind "Magic: The Gathering" would say. I, on the other hand, loathe money-grubbing power-creep.

Thanks for taking the time to read my posts! The banter is fun.

[DrFunkenstein]

You definitely want Shapechange and Foresight helping you out each day. Shapechange nets you all that Archdruid gives you and more, much more. So 17 Shepherd Druid/0-2 Paladin/0-2 Wizard (War Mage)/0-1 Monk/0-1 Barbarian/1 Life Cleric is the most optimal.

And gnome is a great way to go.

I'm glad you appreciate the wonder of the Gnome. The problem with your alternative is it comes online at Level 17+. Solly is online at Level 3. It seems your looking at this from a strictly theorycraft/high-level perspective, but I'm looking at it from a campaign perspective, starting at low-level.

[DrFunkenstein]

Increasing health via rage or going 5 levels into an extra attack/smite class for damage when you could just get more health via beast forms and more damage through both that AND more and better spells. Taking feats to improve grappling when many beast attacks simply auto-restrain, etc.

...

Even if you have weaker casting because summons are banned at your table or are otherwise made unusable, Moon Druid is probably the one class that punishes you the hardest for multiclassing out at any level that isn't 3 or 4, simply because staying in boosts 3 different things at the same time, all the way up until the best capstone in the entire game.

Paladin 6/Moon 6 sounds fun and I hope I get to try it some day, but I know it's super good at exactly that level and won't shine as much before OR after.

If you choose a beast form with more HP, you are also choosing one with less offense. The Rage Damage Reduction solves this problem.

If you have summons at your table, you better pray you don't lose Concentration and have them turn on you. If you're tanking, this is a poor decision.

I strongly discourage trying to be effective as a CR2 beast on a battlefield with Level 12 characters. It's hard enough at Level 9.

Thanks for reading and posting!

[DrFunkenstein]

Why go five levels in martial class when Shapechange can net you 3-4 attacks at Druid 17?

Solly comes online at Level 3. Waiting for Level 17 is theorycraft.

[DrFunkenstein]

While we're optimizing this absolutely MAD build...

I know that gnome was a key RP aspect to your original build, but Yuan-Ti magic resistance is gnome cunning on steroids. Advantage on any save vs magic, which is the vast majority of saving throws. Also total immunity to poison, which pairs nicely with some of the AoE spells you will pick up as a druid. (If we still want the nice guy/cute and cuddly theme, play as a more oriental inspired background and have all your bear shapes be pandas)

While restrained is a nice condition, it doesnt really justify the investment in the grappler feat. Just shove them prone, since grappled drops speed to 0 they can't stand up. Take the tavern brawler feat instead, so you can make grapple attacks as a bonus action while attacking.

As for the level split:
We want 10 levels in moon druid for elemental wild shape
5 levels in a martial class for extra attack
Paladin for smite
Barbarian for rage
Rogue for expertise

Starting / expected ending level is kind of important for how you break it down. If starting at 20 I would go druid 10/pal 6/ barb 3/ rogue 1. But if playing the levels in between I would probably go barb 1/ druid x and play it out from there.

It's actually a NAD build (non-attribute dependent). Yes, Solly needs a 13 in 4 different scores, but he doesn't actually depend on his Gnome form's ability scores much anyways. They're just prereqs for multiclassing and feats.

The Yuan-Ti's "Gnome Cunning on steroids" sums up perfectly why I hate the expansion materials: the power-creep is blatant. Solly is strictly Core Books.

Solly never used the Grappler feat for Restraining people, because you have to restrain yourself at the same time (lolz, wut?). It was a means of getting advantage on attack rolls, as the Brown Bear's +5 is mediocre for a 5th level character. Shoving them prone was what he did at first, but it became a problem because then ranged attackers had disadvantage.

Tavern brawler doesn't work, because it only grants the bonus action grapple after an unarmed or improvised weapon attack. Beasts do neither. I guess a DM might allow you to make an unarmed strike, though I'm not sure it's worth it. Also, the +1 to Str or Con isn't useful (see NAD above).

If you go Pal 6, you're missing out on Rogue 2 for Cunning Action, which is at least as good as Expertise in this case. I also wouldn't bother with the Pal 6 aura, as the CHA bonus is not going to be high (probably just +1). I prefer Barbarian because you can get away with just Paladin 2, but you need Barbarian 3 for Bear Totem. Then you can push Druid to 11 for the 20th level and get cool 6th Level spells for out of combat (Wind Walk!).

Thanks for reading and commenting!

[Fable Wright]

At level 13, Bear Totem provides DR to ALL damage except Psychic. Obviously waaay better than the Earth Elemental. So this is a very strong DR combo at levels 3-10 and 13-20. Nit-picking two levels of merely stronger-than-usual DR is, well, nit-picking, don't you think?

Okay, it's definitely not stronger than usual DPR. You've got +8 to hit/16 average damage while raging. A Fighter has three attacks now and, even without Sharpshooter, will do dramatically more. A PAM Barbarian will have +9 to hit with 3 attacks at 13.5/13.5/10.5 damage. Even an Arcane Trickster with Booming Blade does 40.5 damage on their one attack. It is above average in a featless Core game, but that's obviously not the environment Solly was built for, since he's relying on Grappler.

Third, the giant octopus is a poor substitute for Solly the Raging Brown Bear (your druid might not even be capable of turning into one, as you need to have seen it before). The octopus needs to land a hit with a +5 attack to grapple, whereas Solly has Athletics +6 with Advantage. After grappling, the bear has a move of 40 (and a climb of 30!), which allows him to move opponents 20'+ around the field (maybe not while climbing, but the climbing definitely came in handy at other times).

Why do you assume that the brown bear has Longstrider and the Octopus does not? The bear can move 20+ and the octopus can move 10+, but the Octopus can ensure that melee-only opponents can't target anyone with their attacks with that 15ft ranged grapple, which is huge. Alternatively, as a Giant Spider, you can use the Web ranged attack for lockdown with Restrained, which is a stronger condition than Grappled.

Fourth, any arguments based on Concentrating on spells don't fly. You're saying a caster without Con Save Proficiency should be depending on Concentration when tanking? No way. Every hit (which will be many - you're tanking with a low AC, until Earth Elemental) triggers at least a DC 10 save. Sure, you can get Resilient or Warcaster, but at higher levels the incoming damage is going to start pushing up that DC, and you're bound to boot a roll at some point with all those hits raining down.

I have made single-classed Moon Druids before. Warcaster + Resilient means that you actually don't fail concentration saves anywhere near as often as you think, and even if you only get one turn of Moonbeam—well, let's take level 13, when you claim to have excellent DPR. You have maybe +4 damage per turn from Rage, while the Moon Druid concentrating on Moonbeam, if they get one third-level spell off against one target, gets an extra 16.5 to 33 damage. If the enemy makes their save each turn vs moonbeam, and Solley hits every turn no matter what, it takes 4 turns (greater than the duration of the average combat entirely) to make up the damage difference.

Finally, Solly only uses Core Books. At first, this was because those were the only ones that existed at the time, haha. Now, it's because I detest the expansion materials. "Give us $50 and you get strictly better character options!" Yeah, that's what the company behind "Magic: The Gathering" would say. I, on the other hand, loathe money-grubbing power-creep.

Thanks for taking the time to read my posts! The banter is fun.

No worries! It's always fun to see someone messing around with Druid, which sadly doesn't get much multiclassing love.

[DrFunkenstein]

Okay, it's definitely not stronger than usual DPR. You've got +8 to hit/16 average damage while raging. A Fighter has three attacks now and, even without Sharpshooter, will do dramatically more. A PAM Barbarian will have +9 to hit with 3 attacks at 13.5/13.5/10.5 damage. Even an Arcane Trickster with Booming Blade does 40.5 damage on their one attack. It is above average in a featless Core game, but that's obviously not the environment Solly was built for, since he's relying on Grappler.



Why do you assume that the brown bear has Longstrider and the Octopus does not? The bear can move 20+ and the octopus can move 10+, but the Octopus can ensure that melee-only opponents can't target anyone with their attacks with that 15ft ranged grapple, which is huge. Alternatively, as a Giant Spider, you can use the Web ranged attack for lockdown with Restrained, which is a stronger condition than Grappled.



I have made single-classed Moon Druids before. Warcaster + Resilient means that you actually don't fail concentration saves anywhere near as often as you think, and even if you only get one turn of Moonbeam—well, let's take level 13, when you claim to have excellent DPR. You have maybe +4 damage per turn from Rage, while the Moon Druid concentrating on Moonbeam, if they get one third-level spell off against one target, gets an extra 16.5 to 33 damage. If the enemy makes their save each turn vs moonbeam, and Solley hits every turn no matter what, it takes 4 turns (greater than the duration of the average combat entirely) to make up the damage difference.



No worries! It's always fun to see someone messing around with Druid, which sadly doesn't get much multiclassing love.

Not DPR - DR, as in Damage Resistance. Solly has stronger-than-usual Damage Resistance for a level 11-12 Druid, thanks to resisting magic weapons, which is something elementals don't do.

DPR has never been Solly's focus. He's a tank. Taking away the Barbarian Rage in favor of Moonbeam is not a good choice from that standpoint, and you're not going to have both Resilient and Warcaster until at least level 8. Also, without the damage resistance, those Con DCs are going to start ticking up as big hits start regularly doing more than 20 dmg at higher levels. When Solly gets Divine Smite at high levels, THEN we're talking DPR, but that's late stage.

I don't assume the Bear has Longstrider. Brown/Polar Bears have base moves of 40. The octopus has 10. If we assume grappling (half movement) and Longstrider, we are at move 25 for the bears vs. 10 for the octopus, though I wouldn't count on Longstrider. It's gonna be 20' vs. 5' a lot of the time. Either way, that's a big difference.

Cheers, mate!