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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    DrowGuy

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    Question Does Water And Wine Ever Get Spoiled?

    I know that milk gets spoiled due to a short period of time but I want to know if water and wine get spoiled as well?

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    Bugbear in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Does Water And Wine Ever Get Spoiled?

    Well, wine will turn into vinegar (most wines are meant to be drunk in the same year they're sold), and water will eventually start to grow undesirable bacteria. But, if you strain and boil the water you'll be back to a potable drink, so kind of?
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    Default Re: Does Water And Wine Ever Get Spoiled?

    Beyond what Random said, water is also a very powerful (if slow) solvent, so if stored in certain materials - most commonly plastic, in the modern world - it eventually dissolves the container, with a result verging from "weird taste" to "toxic" depending on how long it was at it.

    Boiling does not help with this, unfortunately, since all you'll accomplish is concentrating the foreign contaminants even more - filtering will be the only way to get rid of them (you could also evaporate and collect the water, but then you'd end up with pure water, which is not potable)

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    Default Re: Does Water And Wine Ever Get Spoiled?

    Quote Originally Posted by Grey_Wolf_c View Post
    (you could also evaporate and collect the water, but then you'd end up with pure water, which is not potable)
    You can't drink water made by evaporation? I thought that was a standard way of purifying water, if no quicker means or technology were available.

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    Default Re: Does Water And Wine Ever Get Spoiled?

    Quote Originally Posted by JeenLeen View Post
    You can't drink water made by evaporation? I thought that was a standard way of purifying water, if no quicker means or technology were available.
    I mean, a bit won't kill you, but the lack of dissolved salts makes it dangerous, since it will actively remove salts from the body, rather than add them (sometimes described as "water that drinks you as you drink it"). Evaporation processes - such as sea water desalinisation - have to add the salts back when they are done to make the water potable.

    Also, standard? No, I don't think so? Filtering and boiling are far more common means of water purification (and boiling is by far the fastest and least technological method - heck, it's step 1 of the distillation process itself, so if you can distill, you can boil).

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    Default Re: Does Water And Wine Ever Get Spoiled?

    Quote Originally Posted by Grey_Wolf_c View Post
    water is also a very powerful (if slow) solvent
    Well, it is just a bunch of H+ and OH-; or, under some definitions, an acid and a base. Combine an acid and a base and it's not surprising you'll get a solution what will dissolve a whole ton of stuff!
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    Default Re: Does Water And Wine Ever Get Spoiled?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bartmanhomer View Post
    I know that milk gets spoiled due to a short period of time but I want to know if water and wine get spoiled as well?
    Wine will spoil eventually but how long it takes depends on the type of wine and how it's stored. If stored in an airtight container (like a properly sealed bottle) in a consistently cool and dark environment, disturbed only rarely and deliberately, it can last for decades. There are reports of fortified wines having lasted centuries. It will change but whether that change involves deterioration is partially subjective. Very old wines won't taste of much, but they won't be "off" per se.

    On the other hand, if you buy a bottle of wine, open it, decant it, and then leave it exposed, especially in a warm environment, it will probably noticeably change in character for the worse within about 24 hours. Within a couple of days it will be sour and vinegary. Whites tend to deteriorate faster than reds. Even if left sealed, wine can still go off if stored badly (e.g. at too high or variable a temperature), or if there is a problem with the corking (leading to the wine reacting with the cork and going bad).

    As noted above, most wine is not intended to be "laid down" for years on end and are probably at their best within a year of bottling. But depending on taste, some wines will improve with age until a certain point after which they will progressively lose character (this point is subjective, and the only real way to tell is to try some).

    Obviously, there has been a lot written on the subject of keeping wine, and people devote their entire careers to doing it well.
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    Default Re: Does Water And Wine Ever Get Spoiled?

    Distilled water isn't strictly dangerous. You can also add salts to your body by eating thing.

    Where it becomes a problem is when you exercise heavily or it's very hot, and your body loses both water and salts through sweating, but you replace only the water by drinking. That can lead to dangerous problems within just hours, which can be a long time before hunger forces you to take a break to eat.
    This is an issue that can happen just with regular water. Distilled water would increase the effect somewhat, but I very much doubt it's extreme enough to be an issue during normal everyday activities.

    If you're spending your days mostly at home or at a desk at work, I am pretty sure you could drink nothing but distilled water forever without any side effects. But say you're stranded on a remote island or drifting on a damaged ship and you have to survive without food for a week or two (which for most people is absolutely doable), drinking only water from evaporation would probably kill you, even though you have enough water and are still a long way from starvation. In that situation, adding the occasional cup of sea water to your distilled water would be necessary for survival.

    If you're doing long exercise or manual labor out in hot weather, then even just regular water wouldn't be safe. An additional source of salts would be necessary, whether your water is pure or not.
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    Default Re: Does Water And Wine Ever Get Spoiled?

    Quote Originally Posted by Yora View Post
    Distilled water isn't strictly dangerous. You can also add salts to your body by eating thing.

    Where it becomes a problem is when you exercise heavily or it's very hot, and your body loses both water and salts through sweating, but you replace only the water by drinking. That can lead to dangerous problems within just hours, which can be a long time before hunger forces you to take a break to eat.
    This is an issue that can happen just with regular water. Distilled water would increase the effect somewhat, but I very much doubt it's extreme enough to be an issue during normal everyday activities.

    If you're spending your days mostly at home or at a desk at work, I am pretty sure you could drink nothing but distilled water forever without any side effects. But say you're stranded on a remote island or drifting on a damaged ship and you have to survive without food for a week or two (which for most people is absolutely doable), drinking only water from evaporation would probably kill you, even though you have enough water and are still a long way from starvation. In that situation, adding the occasional cup of sea water to your distilled water would be necessary for survival.

    If you're doing long exercise or manual labor out in hot weather, then even just regular water wouldn't be safe. An additional source of salts would be necessary, whether your water is pure or not.
    Isn't there also a thing where you're supposed to drink a saline solution rather than water when you're dehydrated due to diarrhea? Although, in this case, I suppose it isn't really because you lose water and salts, but more because you don't gain any of what you ingest, since stuff coming out in liquid form means the water didn't get absorbed by your intestines. Anyway, I don't know about you, but I've seen a lot of PSA campaigns about that on TV, on how to make homemade saline water, due to endemic diseases in some parts of my country that have diarrhea as a symptom.

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    Default Re: Does Water And Wine Ever Get Spoiled?

    Quote Originally Posted by SirKazum View Post
    Isn't there also a thing where you're supposed to drink a saline solution rather than water when you're dehydrated due to diarrhea? Although, in this case, I suppose it isn't really because you lose water and salts, but more because you don't gain any of what you ingest, since stuff coming out in liquid form means the water didn't get absorbed by your intestines. Anyway, I don't know about you, but I've seen a lot of PSA campaigns about that on TV, on how to make homemade saline water, due to endemic diseases in some parts of my country that have diarrhea as a symptom.
    As far as I know the simple answer to this is "No".

    Saline solution is what can be injected into patients, it is not for drinking (*it desn;t take much salt to make it caus emore problems than it helps).
    "Rehydrating salts" are what is given to patients who have diarrhoea, but the important one is to keep the patients hydrated which means getting water back into them. Yes, too much pure water does cause probelms with washing minerals form the body, but too little water kills far far faster.

    So can pure water cause probelms? - Yes, but if in any doubt is it better than the alternatives (i.e. than drinking dirty water or not enough water).

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    Default Re: Does Water And Wine Ever Get Spoiled?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bartmanhomer View Post
    I know that milk gets spoiled due to a short period of time but I want to know if water and wine get spoiled as well?
    Yes.

    One of the major issues the Age of Exploration explorers faced was to have potable water (and drinkable wine if talking about the Spanish ;) ) after months at sea.

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    Default Re: Does Water And Wine Ever Get Spoiled?

    What you give to e.g. Typhoid patients, if I remember correctly, is saline-glucose solution, i.e. salt and sugar dissolved in water. That's mainly because they need a lot of fluid however, and giving them pure saline would expose them to far too much sodium, glucose is more neutral.
    Last edited by Eldan; 2020-04-02 at 06:43 AM.
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    Default Re: Does Water And Wine Ever Get Spoiled?

    Quote Originally Posted by Eldan View Post
    What you give to e.g. Typhoid patients, if I remember correctly, is saline-glucose solution, i.e. salt and sugar dissolved in water. That's mainly because they need a lot of fluid however, and giving them pure saline would expose them to far too much sodium, glucose is more neutral.
    Glucose woudl help with nutrition too I imagine. Be easier to break down and absorb in the body.

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    Default Re: Does Water And Wine Ever Get Spoiled?

    Quote Originally Posted by snowblizz View Post
    Yes.

    One of the major issues the Age of Exploration explorers faced was to have potable water (and drinkable wine if talking about the Spanish ;) ) after months at sea.
    Not sure why you single out the Spaniards there - every sailing ship had alcohol on board, both because it helps with morale, and because water mixed with alcohol keeps it from growing algae. The Spanish and French ships had wine, the British had grog, the Dutch had gin and so on.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eldan View Post
    What you give to e.g. Typhoid patients, if I remember correctly, is saline-glucose solution, i.e. salt and sugar dissolved in water. That's mainly because they need a lot of fluid however, and giving them pure saline would expose them to far too much sodium, glucose is more neutral.
    I once worked in a tropical developing country where tap water was dangerous to drink (where it was available at all), and the doctor that provided me with the necessary medicines for the trip also told me that, if I had any kind of diarrhea or vomiting, I should just drink coke. He said that anything with sugar in it is a decent pick on a pinch but that coke can be found anywhere, usually is slightly better filtered than other local drinks and has the sugar & salts you need. If coke can't be found, buying an (intact) coconut and drinking its milk is also perfectly acceptable. Anything beyond that you need a doctor for, but to keep yourself hydrated when loosing liquids? Coke and/or coconut.

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    Firbolg in the Playground
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    Default Re: Does Water And Wine Ever Get Spoiled?

    While wine can go bad, the time it takes varies, it and other alchohols like wort and smallbeer is how the vast majority of humans up to the modern age made their water more safe to drink. Rum rations and the aforementioned smallbeers were a thing during the Age of Sail not only for the vitamins and nutrients but also because it killed most of the bacteria in the water. Standing water goes south pretty quickly.

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    Default Re: Does Water And Wine Ever Get Spoiled?

    Quote Originally Posted by Eldan View Post
    What you give to e.g. Typhoid patients, if I remember correctly, is saline-glucose solution, i.e. salt and sugar dissolved in water. That's mainly because they need a lot of fluid however, and giving them pure saline would expose them to far too much sodium, glucose is more neutral.
    Yes, that's it. One teaspoon salt and one tablespoon sugar, per liter of water I think. I thought the sugar was there just so the salt doesn't taste bad, but maybe it has more practical functions.

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    Default Re: Does Water And Wine Ever Get Spoiled?

    It does. It was found out in the 19th century (London, I think?) that typhoid patients die if you just give them water to drink to make up for the lost fluids. So they tried saltwater, and they still died. So they started experimenting, and sugar worked. Apparently, the survival rate improved dramatically.
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    Default Re: Does Water And Wine Ever Get Spoiled?

    Quote Originally Posted by Grey_Wolf_c View Post
    Not sure why you single out the Spaniards there -
    It's called "humour". As the most generally known explorer + wine country it was the perfect example.

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