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2020-04-02, 10:57 PM (ISO 8601)
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- The Old West
Re: My soul has left me, or the tale of the 3d6 in order for stats
Huh. I'd heard Gary had always considered there was a point of uselessness for low stats (beyond just not qualifying for any classes) at which point it was best to assume the character died young and roll again. I'd be interested to see proof of it either way (also, beyond the "well what'd you do?" attitude of the early days, what kind of actual advice did they give out?)
Avatar by linklele
Spoiler: Build Contests
E6 Iron Chef XVI Shared First Place: Black Wing
E6 Iron Chef XXI Shared Second Place: The Shadow's Hand
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2020-04-02, 11:39 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: My soul has left me, or the tale of the 3d6 in order for stats
One of my friends once played a 4 INT character. He leaned into it hard and made a very funny but dumb wrestler. He ended up being the most memorable character of the party.
If your DM doesn't just hate you, he probably likes seeing the kind of creativity these kinds of random stats make people come up with. Lean hard into it and try to play something that makes sense of it. Maybe he's an old man. Maybe he's dying of a disease. Maybe he has a curse on him. It could be a plot device.
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2020-04-02, 11:44 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2016
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- The Old West
Re: My soul has left me, or the tale of the 3d6 in order for stats
Oh, incidentally since people keep bringing it up, I think 5e has abandoned both the notion of Int=IQ/10 or any other real world "measure" of intelligence and the idea that below a certain score is animal-level intelligence. Animal Int scores are all over the place this edition.
Avatar by linklele
Spoiler: Build Contests
E6 Iron Chef XVI Shared First Place: Black Wing
E6 Iron Chef XXI Shared Second Place: The Shadow's Hand
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2020-04-02, 11:54 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2015
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Re: My soul has left me, or the tale of the 3d6 in order for stats
This. A low intelligent humanoid is still able to converse with other humanoids who they share a language with and act like other humanoids. They don't become animals purely because of their intelligence is lower than X beast.
A character with intelligence below standard, for example, would just be a hill billy country oaf.
Spoiler: (Cue: Brandine and Cletus Spuckler from Simpsons)Last edited by Arkhios; 2020-04-03 at 12:01 AM.
Please be mindful of what you say in public; sadly not all can handle sarcasm or The Internet Credibility.
My Homebrew:
Base Class: Warlord | Roguish Archetype: Inquisitor | Roguish Archetype: Thug | Primal Path: Rage Mage
Ongoing game & character:
Sajan Uttam, human Monk 6/Fist of Irori 3 (Legacy of Fire)
D&D/Pathfinder CV of sorts
3.0 since 2002
3.5 since 2003
4e since 2008
Pathfinder 1e since 2008
5e since 2014
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2020-04-03, 12:51 AM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2019
Re: My soul has left me, or the tale of the 3d6 in order for stats
While I would be okay playing that sort of character in a one off, I would decline play in that campaign. I could only play a character like that in a farcical way. Descent into Avernus sounds like it is a great campaign and I would not want to waste a chance to enjoy it with a game that could only be a comedy of error. So personally I would decline the game and wait for the DM to change his mind, run his next game or for another game came along.
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2020-04-03, 03:14 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2007
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- Norway
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Re: My soul has left me, or the tale of the 3d6 in order for stats
Low stats are not that big a deal.
Moon druid is the obvious solution.
You could play a spellcaster that supports the rest of the party, like a healbot life cleric or a buffer bard.
You could play a beast master ranger or battle smith artificer and contribute through your pet.
My favorite is probably a half-elf warlock. Get pact of the chain for an advanced familiar as an advisor and helper. Hexblade for weapon attacks, or maybe Celestial to heal.
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2020-04-03, 03:34 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2015
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Re: My soul has left me, or the tale of the 3d6 in order for stats
Have fun. See it as a challenge. Create a backstory to explain how this unlikely debentures was thrust into the life. How much can you accomplish with this character? See if you can surprise people. I think Moon Druid is the choice, here.
But I do love the hill dwarf cleric suggestion. I love playing them. You’d be surprised how effective you can be by repeatedly taking the dodge action while standing in position to protect the back-liners. Save your spells for healing word re-pops. Once you get level 2 spells you can do the same but bonus action attack using spiritual weapon on rounds when you don’t heal. Once you get a bit of survivability, you can risk the occasional toll the dead instead of constantly dodging.
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2020-04-03, 07:11 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2013
Re: My soul has left me, or the tale of the 3d6 in order for stats
Moon Druid with a splash of Barbadian all the way. Raging Reckless bears & dinosaurs FTW
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2020-04-03, 07:25 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2014
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2020-04-03, 08:16 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2005
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- Virtual Austin
Re: My soul has left me, or the tale of the 3d6 in order for stats
Stats just aren't that important in 5e, so long as you aren't multi-classing.
It's also not a very deadly version of the game.
Play whatever you want.
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2020-04-03, 08:26 AM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2015
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Re: My soul has left me, or the tale of the 3d6 in order for stats
The "wander off into the sunset" line was either in Men and Magic or in AD&D 1e PHB or DMG. Strat Review did not cover this.
here is what it says in the AD&D 1e PHB:
(Bolding Mine)
Each and every character has six principal characteristics, the character's abilities. These abilities are strength, intelligence, wisdom, dexterity, constitution, and charisma. (See also APPENDIX I , Psionic Ability.) The s is between 3 and 18. The premise of the game is that the character is above average - at least in some respects - and has superior potential. Furthermore, it is usually essential to the character's survival to be exceptional (with a rating of 15 or above) in no
fewer than two ability characteristics.
Each ability score is determined by random number generation. The referee has several methods of how this random number generation should be accomplished suggested to him or her in the DUNGEON MASTERS GUIDE. The Dungeon Master will inform you as to which method you may use to determine your character's abilities.
CREATING THE PLAYER CHARACTER
GENERATION OF ABILITY SCORES
As AD&D is an ongoing game of fantasy adventuring, it is important to allow participants to generate a viable character of the race and profession which he or she desires. While it is possible to generate some fairly playable characters by rolling 3d6, there is often an extended period of attempts at finding a suitable one due to quirks of the dice.
Furthermore, these rather marginal characters tend to have short life expectancy - which tends to discourage new players, as does having to make do with some character of a race and/or class which he or she really can't or won't identify with. Charact er generation, then, is a serious matter, and it is recommended that the following systems be used. Four alternatives are offered for player characters:
Method I:
All scores are recorded and arranged in the order the player desires. 4d6 are rolled, and the lowest die (or one of the lower) is discarded.
Method II:
All scores are recorded and arranged as in Method I. 3d6 are rolled 12 times and the highest 6 score retoined for that category.
Method III:
Scores rolled are according to each ability category, in order, STRENGTH, INTELLIGENCE, WISDOM, DEXTERITY, CONSTITUTION, CHARISMA. 3d6 are rolled 6 times for each ability, and the highest score in each category is
Method IV:
3d6 are rolled sufficient times to generate the 6 ability scores, in order, for 12 characters, The player then selects the single set of scores which he or she finds most desirable and these scores are noted on the character record sheet.s are retained.Last edited by KorvinStarmast; 2020-04-03 at 08:37 AM.
Avatar by linklele. How Teleport Worksa. Malifice (paraphrased):
Rulings are not 'House Rules.' Rulings are a DM doing what DMs are supposed to do.
b. greenstone (paraphrased):
Agency means that they {players} control their character's actions; you control the world's reactions to the character's actions.
Second known member of the Greyview Appreciation Society
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2020-04-03, 08:41 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2012
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Re: My soul has left me, or the tale of the 3d6 in order for stats
If he insists on 3d6 in order, insist that you do this four times, to produce the four characters you would lead into the (in this case literal) funnel. Whomever survives becomes your campaign character.
Because while Crom approves (even if he still laughs at you and kicks you out of Valhalla), Crom also encourages using the Dungeon Crawl Classics approach to actually playing this style.
(In a slightly less snarkish mode, part of the 3d6 down the line is that it is assumed that you will lose several characters before having the modestly adequate stats needed to survive.)
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2020-04-03, 08:47 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2017
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Re: My soul has left me, or the tale of the 3d6 in order for stats
I vote for tortle divine soul sorcerer,
You can focus on twining buff spells top help out allies from either the cleric or sorcerer spell lists.
You have decent AC due to the tortle.
Then focus on mold earth for your every round spell for battlefield control.
And guidance, all the guidance. ...
This way you can contribute all the time to the partyPronouns he/him/his
5e Homebrew Subclass Creation Guide - PEACH | Extended Homebrew Post
My Dungeon Master's Guild Entries, Pay What you want
Spoiler: 5e Subclass Contest Wins
● IV-Pinball Wizard
● VI-Luchador Bard
● XIII-Rogue, Tavern Wench
● XV-Monk, Way of the Shrine Guardian
● XVI-Cleric, Madness Domain
● XVIII-Fighter, Chef
● XXI-Artificer, Battling Bowman
● XXV-Ley Line Sorcerer
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2020-04-03, 08:47 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2016
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- The Old West
Re: My soul has left me, or the tale of the 3d6 in order for stats
They are if you want to hit things or succeed on checks or cast a larger variety of spells in day or have enemies be effected by certain spells... Unless you're a rogue, your ability bonus is more important than your proficiency mod for a good portion of the game. Which is why so many people are suggesting moon druid, because it will replace at least half their stats with more usable ones
Avatar by linklele
Spoiler: Build Contests
E6 Iron Chef XVI Shared First Place: Black Wing
E6 Iron Chef XXI Shared Second Place: The Shadow's Hand
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2020-04-03, 08:50 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2005
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- Virtual Austin
Re: My soul has left me, or the tale of the 3d6 in order for stats
Not really. Hitting things isn't that hard in 5e thanks to bounded accuracy.
And missing things isn't the end of the world in a game that is far less deadly than most earlier editions.
5e simply doesn't require optimization in the way that 3rd edition did - when you were constantly chasing the bell curve.
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2020-04-03, 08:51 AM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2015
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- Texas
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Re: My soul has left me, or the tale of the 3d6 in order for stats
Avatar by linklele. How Teleport Worksa. Malifice (paraphrased):
Rulings are not 'House Rules.' Rulings are a DM doing what DMs are supposed to do.
b. greenstone (paraphrased):
Agency means that they {players} control their character's actions; you control the world's reactions to the character's actions.
Second known member of the Greyview Appreciation Society
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2020-04-03, 09:04 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2020
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Re: My soul has left me, or the tale of the 3d6 in order for stats
PHB pg 13 describes how scores are generated, and straight 3d6 is not listed. Friend or no, if my DM insisted on this kind of homebrew before the game even starts, I wouldn't be able to trust him during the game.
My 2cp, politely decline then jump on Roll20 and join one of the hundreds of games looking for players.
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2020-04-03, 09:37 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2015
Re: My soul has left me, or the tale of the 3d6 in order for stats
1E came out 3-5 years after the game started (4 for the PHB). I am trying to figure out where I think the shift in mindset happened. If you know for certain that SR and Dragon did not cover this, I certainly won't hunt down my CD (and a computer CD reader) to go look. However, that 1E covers this is 1) really not surprising, and 2) not exhaustive of the TSR era.
*AD&D (and oD&D w/ supp.1) has a very different relationship with attributes than oD&D w/o supp or the rest of the basic/classic line. With 1E, if you are playing a character without 15+s in key attributes, and the person next to you is a fighter with an 18/## strength and maybe a nice Con as well, well then boy it absolutely is a different level of game, roughly akin to the OP's situation
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2020-04-03, 10:14 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: My soul has left me, or the tale of the 3d6 in order for stats
Been there, done that, my condolences. But I remember a Fighting man with a 10 in highest stat ( not strength or con,) with three (?) or 4 stats above 5 total that actually lasted a couple of games. Every little victory was enjoyed to the fullest.
That is when our war game/FRPG club founder, as DM, decided we should try other forms of creation with 3D6. 🤩
Yeah, Hearing about the Gygax comment referenced above was a face palm 🤦*♂️ moment for many of us followed by joy. 🥳. Strangely, no one bothered to confirm it, we just “ took the money and ran.”
Play to your weaknesses and enjoy it?With one exception, I play AL games only nowdays.
I am the eternal Iconoclast.
Mountain Dwarfs Rock!
Song of Gorm Gulthyn
Blessed be the HAMMER my strength which teaches my hands to war, and my fingers to fight.
Otto von Bismarck Quotes
When you want to fool the world, tell the truth.
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2020-04-03, 10:18 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: My soul has left me, or the tale of the 3d6 in order for stats
On all the people saying, "The DM shouldn't do that!" (in varying degrees of anger at the DM), remember the OP said that he bargained this with the DM in return for the OP getting to pick the next campaign. I don't know if that means the OP picked Descent Into Avernus, or if that means that he picks the one after this, but it's a "challenge run" sort of thing from the DM to the OP. This isn't quite the same thing as the DM just insisting on it.
What I'm curious about regarding the bargain is, if the OP is picking the campaign to follow, what does the DM do if the OP's PC dies? Go straight to the OP's choice of campaign? Let the OP make a character normally? Require him to make the next character the same way? What are the terms of this Infernal Compact that's been stricken?
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2020-04-04, 01:30 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2016
Re: My soul has left me, or the tale of the 3d6 in order for stats
I’m going with a different suggestion. Hill Dwarf Life Cleric.
That will bump your Con to 17 and your Wisdom to 11.
Why Hill Dwarf? You have one good stat, Con. May as well build on it. Also, you’ll be able to wear Heavy armor without penalty, despite not having the Str for it.
Why Life Cleric?
First level gives you Heavy Armor Proficiency and Disciple of Life. DoL boosts your Healing by 2+Spell level. So even with your mediocre Wisdom score, you can heal as well as a standard point buy cleric with a +3 Wisdom bonus.
2nd Level grants Channel Divinity: Preserve Life, which is a Short Rest recharge Healing ability that is purely based on your Cleric Level, which again negates your meh Wisdom.
For combat, Cast Bless. At first level it will give three characters a bonus on Attack Rolls and Saving Throws. It takes concentration. But if you include yourself, your good Con Score with the Bless bonus means you are less likely to drop it early.
Your main contributions to combat at low levels are
1) Giving a buff to allies to help them kill things faster
2) Healing allies so they do not die.
3) Not dying yourself so that you can continue buffing and healing your allies.
At level 4, take Resilient Con. It will boost your Con to 18 (+4 mod) and let you add your proficiency bonus to all Constitution Saves. This greatly reduces your chance of losing a spell, which again Bless also helps with. Alternatively, it makes Warding Bond more viable. More HP to soak part of an ally’s damage without dropping concentration.
Level 8, take Observant and pick the plus 1 to Wisdom. It will bring your Wisdom to 12, enough to give you a +1 bonus. The boost to your Passive Perception and Investigation will be even better if you took those skills when making your character. If you can only get one skill, get perception.
Any remaining ASIs can boost your Wisdom score.
What about damage dealing? Weapons are likely to miss, and with those scores, Bless is not much help. Cleric Cantrips are all save based, and your DC will be easy to beat.
Aside from being a rogue’s sneak attack buddy, your best bet to contributing damage at lower levels will be Spiritual Weapon. It’s a 2nd Level spell that requires an attack roll using your Wisdom score. Still not great, but better than your Str or Dex. Since it is an attack roll though, it can benefit from Bless. Bringing you up to decent odds of landing a blow. It’s a Bonus Action, so you can still try to use your action to attack. 20’s do come up. It also has decent duration, no concentration and is one of the Life Domain Spells.
Later on, you can have Spirit Guardians up, which is save vs half at least. And difficult Terrain for all foes. Damage would never be your strong suit, but you can still be contributing.
On a side note, I’ve always wanted to play in a game that used 3d6 in order for stats.
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2020-04-04, 01:03 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: My soul has left me, or the tale of the 3d6 in order for stats
ParticlePigeon, I'm interested in some things. Why did the DM choose this? Is he reducing the power of the enemies to allow for the weak character(s)? Are the other players bound by the same rules, and how did their characters turn out?
And please tell us how things worked out for you!
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2020-04-04, 08:13 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2015
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Re: My soul has left me, or the tale of the 3d6 in order for stats
Avatar by linklele. How Teleport Worksa. Malifice (paraphrased):
Rulings are not 'House Rules.' Rulings are a DM doing what DMs are supposed to do.
b. greenstone (paraphrased):
Agency means that they {players} control their character's actions; you control the world's reactions to the character's actions.
Second known member of the Greyview Appreciation Society
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2020-04-05, 04:26 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2019
Re: My soul has left me, or the tale of the 3d6 in order for stats
Naaaah. @OP: embrace the chance to play a really unique character that reallys knows its weaknesses...
Or simply go Moon Druid. ;)
You don't care that much about 10 WIS that way: just use support spells, pick Resilient Constitution ASAP, then simply boost WIS as much as you want depending on if you feel lacking in number of prepared spells or if you want to start using offensive spells.
DON'T engage in melee fight. It's a trap in general for any Druid, even Moon, but for you even more. Keep your Wild Shapes as a defensive option when you feel threatened.
Use spells that either don't care about your DC, like Heat Metal, spells that can target enough creatures to be efficient overall even with lower DC, like MoonBeam / Flaming Sphere / Faerie Fire, or simply support everyone with Enhance Ability, Healing Spirit, Pass Without Trace etc.
Once you're level 5 switch to Conjurations as needed.
Shepherd Druid would work better for a Conjurer to be honest, but I'd be afraid even with the Aura you'd have trouble surviving.
That's by far the easiest way.
Some other builds that may work well enough.
1. Tempest Cleric: go full support, just using maximized Shatter when needed. Ask your DM if there is any decent chance you'll get a Giant Belt or similar, make it clear that's one of your character objective. That way someday you can also use the melee properties of that Domain (although let's be honest, it's not mandatory). Pick the Dward race for no armor penalty as someone said.
2. Life Cleric: probably even easier: You can be a heal-alcoholic guy that keeps close to a pal to sustain Warding Bond, Heal Wording others as needed, while using his action on Helping a Rogue/Paladin land a powerful attack, gulping down a healing potion, using a kit with Healer feat, or maybe throwing some caltrops. Even Spirit Guardians is still a decent option: although DC for dealing damage is low, at least it's difficult terrain so it helps your frontliner keeping his prey close.
3. Hexblade Tome Warlock: be a Half-Elf (+2 CHA, +1 DEX, +1 whatever although I'd favor Constitution), pick Repelling Blast as your first invocation, then the "learn Rituals" one, then Devil's Sight, Lance of Lethargy, Grasp of Hadar, then whatever you want. Learn utility cantrips such as Prestidigitation, Mage Hand, Guidance with the Tome. Learn as many rituals as possible, with Comprehend Languages and Find Familiar in your top picks. You'll use Darkness to grant you advantage at lower levels. Spend first ASI on Elven Accuracy (14 CHA), then Resilient: Constitution if you have an odd score, otherwise boost Charisma first and only).
That leveling ensures you have an actually decent chance of hitting early. You don't care AT ALL about Agonizing Blast because what was the less interesting Eldricht Blast buff in the first place is utterly useless for one with much lower CHA than usual. Your strength will come from movement control, pushing/pulling enemies while you also reduce their mobility.
4. Lore Bard: embrace your frailty of strength and agility: you have low physical stats because you overall spent so much time just playing your instruments and studying arts. Your high Constitution comes from a rigorous and sane lifestyle (plus some wouldn't believe, but playing instruments for hours, developing breathing capacity for sing, does affect your endurance). You have a low Intelligence and low Wisdom because your Charisma is born from your egocentrism breeding in turn some kind of strong self-confidence (yeah, there are many forms of Charisma, and this one is sadly fairly common XD).
Engage everything into avoiding conflits that party cannot handle, being in general a facilitator. Comprehend Languages, Silence, Heat Metal, Enhance Ability... Use Bardic Secrets to learn Counterspell and Conjure Animals (piggy-backing on Druid strategies).
5. Shadow Sorcerer: more or less similar fluff to just above except that you spent your life honing your own body to muster your natural magic (which makes easier to explain the high Constitution ;)). Be Half-Elf, pick Spell Sniper with Agonizing Blast, piggy-back on the same tactic as plain Warlock when you just want to deal damage, otherwise learn some great buffs to boost your allies with Twin.
This.
Honestly I personally wouln't mind at all playing any of those aforementioned builds, with those rolled stats.
I think I may even enjoy a Rogue, preferably Thief. Yeah, *even a guy whose main thing in battle is dealing damage based on DEX or STR*. I see many other ways I could contribute with objects in combat, and outside combat Expertise would offset low stats to make me still a good contributor. I'd pick Healer feat obviously, boost DEX, and make a quest of finding an item that boosts either STR or DEX, choosing my ASIs depending on that.Last edited by HiveStriker; 2020-04-05 at 04:41 AM.
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2020-04-05, 06:47 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: My soul has left me, or the tale of the 3d6 in order for stats
Hiya!
With...
6 Strength. 7 Dexterity, 15 Constitution, 10 Wisdom, 5 intelligence, and an 11 charisma
...I'd go with a Cleric of "anything but war". Human, so you're at +1 to the above (re: Str 7, Dex 8, Con 16, Wis 11, Int 6, Cha 12).
The strength would put the PC on the "looks scrawny" side of things. Dex is hardly noticeable from the mass of commoners out there; those that get to know the character might say he/she is "a klutz" or "accident prone". The Intelligence of 6 is the most notable. Folks would quickly surmise that he/she is "a dim bulb" or "none to bright". But, that Charisma of 12 and the common sense of Wisdom 11 would easily follow those statements up with "...but he/she always does the right thing, and that's downright endearing!". In other words...people would like you.
So...the PC...totally playable. :)
I'd probably focus on being the person in the group who is an open book, completely non-judgmental, and helpful to a fault. Cleric would give you mechanical bonuses on Wisdom and Charisma skills and saves; play those up. You would effectively be mostly a 'one trick pony', because only your Con is superior to others, and there aren't many Con based Skills. You might also be able to get away with the "ditzy, klutzy blond" type of character who's innocence and naivete get the group into certain...uh..."judgmental social situations".
Either way...trying to make a totally competent, heroic PC with these stats is a loosing battle...but making a totally fun, memorable PC with these stats is pretty much being handed to you on a silver plate! Take advantage of it! Run with it and have fun! You don't have to worry about "looking like you suck" to the group...because it's obvious...you do. ;) So that's a HUGE weight off of your shoulders. You can just really "get into" the role-playing of the PC and not worry much at all about the mechanical part of the game.
BECMI: "Barcus Liebentaub. St 4, In 9, Wi 13, Dx 8, Cn 16, Ch 4. Neutral Fighter, Level 12, Master-Level user of the Volgue. Favourite Tactic: Getting swallowed by big monsters and hacking his way out with a dagger. Most known for: Being an absolutely filthy, disgusting, rude individual...that any fellow adventurer would LOVE to have fighting at their side". (NOTE: Stats may not be exactly right...but they're dang close to that)
((A very memorable PC in one of our campaigns that lasted for years; started at level 1, now at level 12 and still going! In short....Stat's don't make a character great; playing them does! :) ))^_^
"It's ok! Gary sent us!"
Paul L. Ming
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2020-04-05, 10:48 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2010
Re: My soul has left me, or the tale of the 3d6 in order for stats
Glad you found something among the suggestions you like! 3d6 in order can be fun, if that is the sort of game everyone wants to pay.
My choice would have been Hill Dwarf Cleric. Forge, Life of Nature to capitalise on high Con and stomp around in heavy armour.
We are playing a classic game using the Moldvay rules. There is a section on page B13 titled "Hopeless Characters" that defines them as a character who is below average in every ability or who has more than one very low (3-6) ability score. The DM may declare the character to be not suited for dangerous adventure, and the player may be allowed to roll up a new character in place of the "hopeless" one.
Str 6 & Int 5 mean this does fall into this category but it is a DM choice and we have a Magic-User with Int 9 (his highest stat) in the party when the player was told they were not hopeless.
In Basic Page B6 also lets you lower scores by 2, to a minimum of 9, to raise your classes prime requisite. Str, Int & Wis are the only ones you can lower. Providing you can get a decent roll in Str or Dex you can use this to pump them up at the expense of your mental stats. You get to turn brain power into muscle power!
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2020-04-06, 12:29 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2013
Re: My soul has left me, or the tale of the 3d6 in order for stats
Oops. Still I think moon Druid with all levelups into wisdom has the best chance at being a ‘normal’ character. Barkskin kinda sucks when not wild shaped but it’s serviceable. Try to get your DM to let you make an animal based scale armor. For examples/ideas see here: https://www.reddit.com/r/DnD/comment..._handbook_v20/
(Chitin armour, animal scale armour, banded mail made of wood, ironwood, etc)
Otherwise just frenzy Bezerker without regard to exhaustion into oblivion, and buy better dice for the next character
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2020-04-06, 12:48 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2014
Re: My soul has left me, or the tale of the 3d6 in order for stats
I'd go the opposite way: ignore Wisdom completely and focus on feats that enhance you in other ways, e.g. Resilient (Con), Warcaster to make your concentration saves unstoppable, Lucky for saves, Mobile to extract you from dangerous situations and enable e.g. hit-and-run Contagion attacks in Earth Elemental form, maybe Skulker to make you the ultimate sneak.
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2020-04-06, 01:38 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: My soul has left me, or the tale of the 3d6 in order for stats
Avatar by linklele.
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2020-04-06, 02:24 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2007
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Re: My soul has left me, or the tale of the 3d6 in order for stats
Most definitely this last part. As noted previously, 1E DOES NOT include a 3d6-in-order stat generation method. That method was used in PRE-1E versions of the game where having high stats WASN'T ALL THAT BIG OF A DEAL. When you look at 3-booklet OD&D you barely get any bonuses for high stats at all and those you do get are NOT spectacular. The way the game was being played at that time was as a dungeon exploration game that pitted clever players against devious "cheating" DM's where PC's actually wanted to get into as little combat as possible and instead get in, get loot, and get out as quickly and efficiently as they could BECAUSE the game was a meat grinder of PC's. Having a long-lived higher-level PC was as much UTTERLY STAT-IRRELEVANT gameplay and blind luck as anything else.
When 1E came out - which was largely just a lot of house-rules and expansion ideas for OD&D cobbled together - the value of high stats was COMPLETELY different, and that is why Gygax states in the 1E PH that it is best for a PC to have AT LEAST two 15's or better for stats and in the DMG provides methods INTENDED to produce more high-stat characters than straight-3d6 and to do so more reliably, thus avoiding much of the meat-grinder aspects of game play of the original game. As 1E continued on the stat generation methods being officially provided (see Unearthed Arcana) got better and better - even rather obviously TOO good - and there began a fairly evident spiral of stat inflation. It only carried over into 2E - which Gygax had NO creative control over at all - that players wanted or even needed higher stats and wanted/needed them more reliably because characters were NOT disposable anymore like they were in OD&D.
Personally, after much examination of it, my own unshakable conclusion is that rolling combinations of d6's simply would not (and never will) provide the stat generation results as reliably as people wanted. They would not reliably get the two 15's Gygax had suggested were needed without over-inflating probabilities of too many too-high scores in general. Otherwise, if restricted to lower probabilities the PC's would inevitably risk falling back into that meat-grinder, where play would just naturally eat through a lot more characters until they got lucky enough to tuck a few levels under their belts. What 1E ACTUALLY needed was not endless new tweaks to methods of rolling the dice to generate the numbers for stats, but changes to the charts of bonuses that FIT THE PROBABILITIES that ONE given method of rolling would generate. This did not really get solved until 3E.
For a DM to think that 3d6-in-order is actually a reasonable method for any published version of D&D other than those versions PRIOR to 1E, they're just not up to speed. It's a silly move unless what is WANTED is a headlong dive of a stream of PC's into the meat grinder. 5E is ILL-suited to that playstyle and is almost certainly NOT wanted even slightly by the players. To insist on it is just whack.
My advice would be to go back to the DM, try one more time to talk them out of this BAD move. Then, if the player just can't NOT still play even under the, YES, draconian, cruel and capricious 3d6-in-order method then you'd HAVE to accept that your PC's ARE going to be disposable. They aren't being given the stats to be NORMALLY effective in the 5E system and therefore will inevitably die more readily than they otherwise would. Now, some might argue (and I'd likely agree) that 5E is actually easier on PC's than previous editions anyway so the draconian "Iron Man" generation method will have less severe impact than it would in other editions as well. Just don't be too attached to your PC's and be ready with ideas for replacements when your PC most likely dies too young. And be prepared to have to sacrifice running the class of character you wanted in order to salvage a better character in general from the stats you're stuck with.Last edited by D+1; 2020-04-06 at 02:30 PM.