A Monster for Every Season: Summer 2
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  1. - Top - End - #181
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    Default Re: [Let's Read] Dungeons the Dragoning 40,000 7th ed. v1.6

    Up into the equipment section of book 1. Fixed a few typos I've run across too.

    I worked out alternate costs & bits for the custom weapon charts in book 2. Existing weapons can be replicated or approximated with the new costs.

    Worked out a 'balanced' set of vehicle melee weapons and got the lascannon from book 1 in as a vehicle weapon. It's size 4 so if you want to have a one-peice mp las cannon t's about the size of an average human.

    My additions to the armors are going to involve a fair bit of squeezing. Some weapon pics in the equipment section may have to go. That's ok since most of those are pretty lousy images anyways.

    Still taking suggestions for pics for blank spots and replacement weapon images.

    Should have done properly object oriented code for the vehicle builder. But I wasn't sure about some of the middle bits when I started. If this were paid/job I'd give it a proper refactoring. Since it's hobby I'll luve with imperfect cut & paste.

    Realized that since I have all the rollers and the vehicle builder in html I could slap around a simple website to hold everything in a single place. Anyone want to recommend a particularly good free hosting service?
    "And this, too, shall pass away."

    DtD40k7e rewrite complete.

  2. - Top - End - #182
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    Default Re: [Let's Read] Dungeons the Dragoning 40,000 7th ed. v1.6

    Vehicle builder web page done. This version at least.

    https://drive.google.com/file/d/11uu...w?usp=drivesdk

    Edit-Found errors, new version soon.

    Edit-Fixed errors, same link, still html page.
    Last edited by Telok; 2021-02-05 at 06:27 PM. Reason: Fixed errors

  3. - Top - End - #183
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    Default Re: [Let's Read] Dungeons the Dragoning 40,000 7th ed. v1.6

    Done with straight text alterations through the equipment section.

    Added my batch of armors, fixed some spelling errors, added a pic at the end of the cyber stuff. Left the trashy weapon images in, nobody said anything and I'm not spending that much of my limited time on finding new ones. That said, I can move stuff around on the pages and combine the trash pics into a single space for larger images if anyone has some.

    I have some notes on tasks, TNs/DCs. Need to type those up for either PDF notes or an appendix of DMing advice.

    How good?
    TN 5 @ 50% for even 1k1
    TN 10 @ 50% with 7k1 (2k2 does 50% at about TN 11.5)
    TN 15 @ 50% with 10k1 and 3k2.
    TN 20 @ 50% with 7k2 and 4k3.
    TN 25 @ 50% with 6k3 and 5k4.
    TN 30 @ 50% with 9k3, 6k4, and 5k5.
    TN 35 @ 50% with 8k4, 7k5, 6k6.
    To figure what the chance of rolling with a raise add 5 to your TN and look at those dice. So TN 20 has a 50% chance at success with a raise at 6k3 or 5k4. For figuring checks go the other way, TN 20 has a 50% chance of failure with two checks at 7k1.

    Straight roll vs. TN = target shooting.
    Straight roll vs. raises over TN = jumping distance.
    Straight opposed rolls = spell saves, grapple, dodge, parry.

    Number of successes: This is a time measure roll. How long it takes to complete some task. Can be simplified to a slightly higher TN, one roll, and shift the time based on checks/raises.
    Number of successes before number of failures: This is a time check with a chance of failure in the middle. If you want to use this learn from the D&D 4e mistake -> more rolls = more average results, less rolls = more random. If the people are rolling at better than 50% for each roll then more rolls = more chance of success and is thus 'easier' to succeed than fewer rolls. Again, you can just +10 the TN and declare that failure by three checks or something.

    Total amount: Add up the rolls to a gigantic TN. This is another "how long" check.
    Total amount over a TN: A slower "how long" that can gate out characters with fewer dice. I like using this for opening really big stuck doors. Strength+Size TN 20 to total 50. Or you can say 10 raises over TN 20. Mind, 8k4 has a 10% chance to throw a 50+ result.
    Total amount with reducers: This is a form of extended opposed rolls. Even if it's a constant -10 on the total that's like being opposed by a 7k1 or 2k2. Again, this is a time check with a chance of failure. Barring the dice god's curse it's "do you have more dice than the reducer?".

    Break it down: 1) Straight success/failure, 2) how well you rolled, 3) how long it took, 4) how long with the possibility of failure. That's it, those are what you're really rolling for.
    "And this, too, shall pass away."

    DtD40k7e rewrite complete.

  4. - Top - End - #184
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    Default Re: [Let's Read] Dungeons the Dragoning 40,000 7th ed. v1.6

    Update: got into playing the game section last weekend, will make more progress this weekend. Found another problem with vehicle builder web page, fixed but not uploaded. Started writing up text for appendices on breaks.

    Who wants a randon daemon generator? The defaults are a bit naff, even my "just add daemonhost qualities & a magic school" make them just OK. Building it as above plus adding two random skills, a npc trait or mutation(weapon limb or stat rearrange) or warp power(simply a few of the warp crap roll results as usable abilities), and a feat package or "daemon of foo" ability(modified forms of the chosen exalt assets).
    "And this, too, shall pass away."

    DtD40k7e rewrite complete.

  5. - Top - End - #185
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    Default Re: [Let's Read] Dungeons the Dragoning 40,000 7th ed. v1.6

    Status update:

    Straight text editing done. Going back through and cleaning up some formatting since I found a better way to do it half way through. Then I need to build my appendices, although I could also rebuild the main book and start adding the notes/annotations then attach the appendices at the end. The dice rollers and such are going at the very end and then you do bookmarks last.

    The daemon improvement randomizer is going well. Since its two buttons and a text box it will be included as one of the forms pages. Since its properly object oriented I may be up adding lich / vamp / young dragon / etc., to it. I think I'll end up translating it to java, moving the lists to text files, and adding it as another page of the andriod app.

    I rewrote a couple magic items, but if you want to rewrite a couple of the magic bead ones I'll willing to replace a couple of the lamer ones with whatever you come up with. Just keep it around the same word count / length.

    Also still willing to replace pics in the equipment chapters with whatever you want. Same thing, try for the same-ish size, but I can move text around decently so you could combine a couple size worth of pics for replacement.
    "And this, too, shall pass away."

    DtD40k7e rewrite complete.

  6. - Top - End - #186
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    Default Re: [Let's Read] Dungeons the Dragoning 40,000 7th ed. v1.6

    25 pages left to format and the straight text changes are done. Then I work on the appendices.

    Daemon & hero randomizer are done. Will upload and link hrml & pdf versions "soon". Will build them into andriod app "someday", probably after book 2 editing completes.

    Last call (probably) if you want replacement pics / artifacts included.
    "And this, too, shall pass away."

    DtD40k7e rewrite complete.

  7. - Top - End - #187
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    Default Re: [Let's Read] Dungeons the Dragoning 40,000 7th ed. v1.6

    I blame you guys. It's been too quiet.

    minion rules page pdf

    So the straight text edits are done in book 1. I'm on to compiling the appendices and putting them into PDFs, then I'll stitch everything back into one big PDF and begin the final run of inserting notes and bookmarks.

    I made a spaceship builder html page and bit to automate space ship shield hits and regeneration. Then I tested it by comparing the shields. Well, the spaceship shields are another thing to balance now. The high end multiphasic shields turned out just too good in testing, they have effectively increasing regeneration and resistance to disruption as they go down. I fooled with other way to run them, since the book is vague on how to do that, and anything but each layer being it's own separate shield but not going out until all shields have gone out was just trash. So... Gotta fool with that a bit.
    "And this, too, shall pass away."

    DtD40k7e rewrite complete.

  8. - Top - End - #188
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    Default Re: [Let's Read] Dungeons the Dragoning 40,000 7th ed. v1.6

    I love how the Fluffy Bunnies are straight up more dangerous than the kobolds.
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  9. - Top - End - #189
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    Default Re: [Let's Read] Dungeons the Dragoning 40,000 7th ed. v1.6

    Quote Originally Posted by lightningcat View Post
    I love how the Fluffy Bunnies are straight up more dangerous than the kobolds.
    That's original to the book. I'm blaming you lot for my picture choices. You dang near ened up with some almost nsfw motivators from the old thread we killed rpg.net with ("got better").

    The appendices are going faster. I'm replacing the "example of play" section with them. It was kind of "bleah" that's just getting replaced by optional rules and charts.

    Did figure out a better balance of shields. I threw a 33 dmg 3 dis hit on 1/round and 2/round. Same with a 28 dmg 8 dis hit. Then x2 and x4 17 dmg 0 dis, and the same as 13 dmg 5 dis. Then 1/round and 2/round mini torps and monopole torps. Ended with 1/round rift torps. Kept track of how many rounds & fractions it took to knock out the shields. Balance is that each shield was best against some and worst against some, except standard that wasn't best anywhere but was only worst against multiple torpedo hits each round. Values mostly went up to increase the difference between shields to the point theres a noticable difference. Amount/regen of mk1 to mk4 follows. Standard: 80/15 to 150/20. Cov: 100/5 to 200/10. Regen: 60/25 to 100/40. Resil: 80/7 to 170/13. Multi all still 20/10 but now x3 to x6.
    "And this, too, shall pass away."

    DtD40k7e rewrite complete.

  10. - Top - End - #190
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    Default Re: [Let's Read] Dungeons the Dragoning 40,000 7th ed. v1.6

    Still on p.2, but was asked to post comments I made elsewhere… here (I hope).

    So, I've only gotten to actually *play* a very little dtd40k7e - mostly I've been planning and world-building and making NPCs. But the *negative* side of my impressions so far: "Cons: character creation feels too complex for the benefits. Class system offers too little crossover potential. Feels too much like "one trick pony" is the optimal play. Needs better (more extensive) tables. Limited potential for growth. Perhaps most of all, "raises" system feels horrifically underutilized."

    My biases: my group likes Daemonhosts, and Wealth.

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    Default Re: [Let's Read] Dungeons the Dragoning 40,000 7th ed. v1.6

    You have done more with the system than I have then. I have only gotten characters made.
    The downsides to life I suppose.

    But all I can say is read fast, Telok is almost done with his Revised edition. Which I am not saying "I told you so" about.
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  12. - Top - End - #192
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    Default Re: [Let's Read] Dungeons the Dragoning 40,000 7th ed. v1.6

    The heck I'm almost done. I need to do the last bit of the magic appendix (pushing animate dead), then the chase rules (built like the book 2 vehicle chases), then the npcs-minions-fight-estimation, then the bit about the setting (how availability of astropaths & navigators affects things). Then recompile from loose page back into one pdf.

    That'll be the draft. If I'm really lucky I might get that done this weekend. I'll post it for comments. Thing is, the text edits are only about... 3/5 of it all? I'm going to go through and put in notes and page links. The notes are where all the optional rules and useful advice will be.

    If you want to suggest rejiggering class feats for more crossing go ahead. I made fairly few changes to them. I'll try to dig up and post the exact changes I've made so far.

    Um, tables. Insanity and shock got reworked tables, plus I tried to de-uberstat willpower a bit. Appendices have big lists of derangements and phobias. A d200 mutation list, for funsies. Doubled the size of the armor table. Personal fav add is Plastic Man armor, cheap trash but also managed to make it a callback to Rifts, Starwars, and Paranoia. Also threw in a powered exoskeleton so you can do the Aliens polwer loader fight scene and have cheaper but lousy open-face power armor. Fixed the grand daiklaive, added a compound bow, tweaked grenades. Added a listing of... either conditions or situations. To the combat chapter. I think. Late night fixing coffee machines and family computers. May check lat$+?:
    "And this, too, shall pass away."

    DtD40k7e rewrite complete.

  13. - Top - End - #193
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    Default Re: [Let's Read] Dungeons the Dragoning 40,000 7th ed. v1.6

    So, to explain my issue with the classes… as the man said, everything should be as simple as it can be (and no simpler).

    All the classes have prerequisites. That would be fine, but… for the most part, the only way to enter "foo 3" is through "foo 2". The class system has all the disadvantages of 3e D&D, with none of the advantages of its "Legos" nature.

    What it *does* give is the rare Easter egg when one actually *can* enter foo 2 from bar 1.

    How would I fix it? Well, that's a tough one.

    My first though would be to make another 20 or so class progressions (so, 100 extra classes), with an eye towards overlapping abilities. Maybe a D&D based class, like wildshape Ranger, who could transition to and from Druid as well as one or more ranged or melee classes. Maybe a Psion and Psychic Warrior class progression, which… heck, who knows what they might be similar to in this system, but they've definitely got cross-class school access.

    Or maybe class tracks based on other systems, like Warhammer fantasy "Winds" Mage, who gets access to exactly 1 school of magic, and… whatever else that system gives them. Or a "cultist of Tzeentch" class track, that gives odd magic (make the target vomit? Really, Tzeentch?) and social skills.

    My second thought was to parallel prestige classes. Much like the "command crew" classes, they would be 1-2 levels long. Unlike those classes, they would explicitly be built a) to allow entry from many classes; b) to allow exit into many classes; c) to carry a cost.

    So, for example, a very *specific* class, like bar-bear-ian, who can rage, and change into a bear. Suppose it's a level 2 class. Then it would be designed to enter from Barbarian 1 or Druid 1, and able to exit into Barbarian 2 or Druid 2… *or* enter from Barbarian 2 or Druid 2, and able to exit into Barbarian 3 or Druid 3. So it slows down your progression, while giving you level-appropriate abilities, and definite exit options.

    Or, for a more general example, a very generic Mystic Theurge. It would be a generic caster class, able to be entered from any caster class, granting all schools of magic, and exits to any caster class. Maybe it slows you down even more, enterable by any level 3 caster, and exiting to any level 3 caster.

    Note that, in order to guarantee exit to a class, you have to grant at least the skills that that class requires.

    Which… is another concept that my group is struggling with.

    At character creation, you can start with up to 3 dots in any skill. Now, the system lets you fiddle around with how you assigned your skills, which is great.

    But suppose that your character, for character reasons, didn't take a skill, like Stealth or Ranged or Forbidden Lore or Drive. If your character takes interest in this skill… they cannot advance it unless their class offers it. Which means that, to get the skill, they have to take a class from a different track… if they can even qualify for one that gives that skill, without actually *having* the skill.

    So, the two issues with skills (which are more "feel" than "fact") are "you need the skill to get the skill", and "you *could* learn it when 'classless', but not now that you've chosen a class".

    A third way I might try to make the class system complexity match what it offers is to give classes explicit career exits (like Warhammer fantasy does). So maybe "Ranger 3" exits to "Ranger 4", "Druid 2", "Arcane Archer 1", and "Pokemon trainer 1". And some classes are still "basic" classes, that you can enter from anywhere.

    The downside is, if you make a new class in a new book, it has to edit all the previous classes that should allow entry into it. So a new book with "Faustian lyrist" has to say, "add this class to the 'Bard 3' career exit table". Which isn't as clean as the other 2 solutions, IMO.

  14. - Top - End - #194
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    Default Re: [Let's Read] Dungeons the Dragoning 40,000 7th ed. v1.6

    SQUEE!

    The first draft!

    The file size is 85 megs because I haven't done any optimization on it yet. No bookmarks, no links, no notes in it. I also can't tell if all the forms are working as I'm running Adobe Reader through the WINE program because apparently Adobe doesn't compile stuff for non-Windows systems. At least one did work, I don't know about the others because I haven't done extensive testing and I can't tell if it's the PDF compiler I'm using, the Adobe Reader having an error, or there's a bug in the scripts on the forms.

    Quertus: I went though and looked at the classes again, then did a spreadsheet with lines all over it. I tweaked some of the requirements and offered feats. Other than the barbarian track there ought to be two off-track entries into the 2nd and 3rd level classes, and at least one off-track entry into each 4th level class. I'm OK with the 5th level classes being locked to the 4th level class from their own track. Originally (and I didn't change it) anyone can buy up any skill, it's just 2x the XP cost if it wasn't in any of you class skill lists.

    Remember, any adding of pages means that I'd have to go through and manually re-number every single page after that. So any proposed changes to the class setup should fit within the current page count.

    Edit: found logic errors crossing rogue & assassin levels. Issue on p.81 werewolf feral heart power table - background lightening from the original table dosen't match. Pic background for p.123 isn't transparent. Capitalization & clarity in text p.129. Text spacing p.133. Words p.157 WoF: "think fog" - thick & contingency "pointing tp" - at. Mind net p.160 "include" add "s". Command p.162 cross check against magic appendix for subversion resource. General magic check spells to find missed saving throw keywords. DesigTarg p.163 clarify who saves (target). EGrasp keyword line extra \r. EBits p.165 roll - focus power test. Image p.168 add subtle. PI p.169 untill caster wants animation to stop. Transform p.173 proficient & add "with". Sword schools, check backgrounds on diff monitors at diff settings. Insanity p.270 change some willpower check(s) to composure. Non cobatant def to 14, p.337. Add paragrapg title after example or move example down p.372.

    Edit: found issue with forms, was same name fields, have new compiled rollers with fixed names, will replace on next draft. Initial optimize test reduced to 26mb, still 2x original but much better than 85.
    Last edited by Telok; 2021-03-30 at 12:57 PM.

  15. - Top - End - #195
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    Default Re: [Let's Read] Dungeons the Dragoning 40,000 7th ed. v1.6

    Disappointed in you guys. I'm still finding and correcting lots of little issues as well as reworking some stuff.

    As a time filler have a pdf, not only of the compiled assorted rollers, but with the vehicle and spelljammer builder html files attached to it.

    https://drive.google.com/file/d/16pi...w?usp=drivesdk

    I rewrote the class pages, they now note which classes they exit to. Tweaked a few bits on the artifacts, after I noticed that I would never consider some of them even if they fit a character. Amusingly artifact 1 can get you artifact Plastic Man armor. Artifact 4 can get you artifact Plastic Man armor, artifact autopistol, artifact ammo for said pistol. Added a few more appendix bits, stuff on dice rolling, hacking, chases, etc. Need to rewrite the index pages now. Decided to make them a 2 column format and start with an index of tables that, in the end, will be hyperlinked to each table so you can just hit the index page to hop to any table in the book.
    "And this, too, shall pass away."

    DtD40k7e rewrite complete.

  16. - Top - End - #196
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    Default Re: [Let's Read] Dungeons the Dragoning 40,000 7th ed. v1.6

    Well the problem is I looked it over and saw little different from the usual thing aside from your additional stuff which I didn't have much of an opinion on. so its like, I'm not sure what I should be saying?
    I'm also on discord as "raziere". Hate is a chain, free yourself.



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    Default Re: [Let's Read] Dungeons the Dragoning 40,000 7th ed. v1.6

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Raziere View Post
    Well the problem is I looked it over and saw little different from the usual thing aside from your additional stuff which I didn't have much of an opinion on. so its like, I'm not sure what I should be saying?
    Well for starters when I'm opening a pdf page in LibreDraw it renders bold MPalatin font as bold outline MPalatin font and drops the MagicMedieval font for it's default setting font. I found at least one place where I'd missed a word (melee weapon table). I'm throwing in things that I notice or think of as I go along. Most are pretty minor, but I tweaked the grenade costs and added the compound bow that way. In this next draft I'll have touched all the artifacts, mostly minor changes but a couple new items I just though up.

    The graphics on a few of the backgrounds of the tables has been pretty bad in a couple places that I've noticed. I'm checking the visuals on my two home screens with slightly different settings and on a phone and a tablet. But I can't always easily tell if something looks off and there's no way for me to go through every page four times, mostly because of time constraints. I get to do most of my work after the rest of the house has gone to bed.

    The appendices are all written in my own tone. While I try to be clear and concise I know that I don't always succeed and that I can't tell when that is. So if there's anything in those that's incoherent I'd love it if somebody piped up about it.

    Last, I really am taking suggestions. There are a few remaining spots for pictures and I'm not exactly emotionally attached to a lot of the pics in the books. I think there's a bit of a heavy WH40K graphical influence that I'd like a little lighter. But finding images that are reasonably possible to use takes a fair bit of time. The images in the equipment section, I'd love to replace on pages 209, 210, 212, and 213. Since moving text around on a page is easy I can combine or split space for bigger or smaller images. The artifact hearthstone Windstone is pretty lousy (seriously, parrying bullets is what stunts are for I seriously don't want that sort of air-breathing mermaid issue here) but I don't know what to replace it with or how to change it. The essence union dart is probably pretty weak too. Gemstone of Immortality, exalts are already canonically immortal plus RPG character life expectancy make it pretty pointless as an artifact for the PCs and I can't really see NPCs going for it too much as I'm sure other methods to gain immortality exist (level 1 vampires are tough but not invincible so it's perfectly possible to go for a turn & kill setup or just buying your way in, promethians are made, and there's always the Deadpool method of trying to become a daemonhost or werewolf).
    "And this, too, shall pass away."

    DtD40k7e rewrite complete.

  18. - Top - End - #198
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    Default Re: [Let's Read] Dungeons the Dragoning 40,000 7th ed. v1.6

    Oops.

    During lunch I stuck a random generator on the spelljammer builder html page...

    I now have a 16000 line text file of assorted spelljammers. Some of them involve bad decisions. A few are quite good. I only looked at the first 80 or so.

    I may never need to build another jammer again...

    Crud. I need a random name generator linked in. And a rule to reject a few bad decisions.

    Edit: right filtering out the worst decisions (like holdings 5 ships with quality 1 crew and shields) was trivial. Next, names.
    Last edited by Telok; 2021-04-13 at 08:11 PM.

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    Default Re: [Let's Read] Dungeons the Dragoning 40,000 7th ed. v1.6

    New draft up. https://drive.google.com/file/d/1XTh...ew?usp=sharing

    Over 80 pages edited from the last one. All classes and almost all spell list pages got touched.

    Naturally I've already found 9 pages that need little fixes.

    Edit: Boo-Ya! Boo-Ya! Little edits & fixes done. Will do an optimized pdf with working form pages (two broke up there) today. After that I'm doing the hyperlinks and option/comment stamping. Last call for picture recommendations replacements, or other requests.
    Last edited by Telok; 2021-04-19 at 12:53 PM. Reason: Update

  20. - Top - End - #200
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    Default Re: [Let's Read] Dungeons the Dragoning 40,000 7th ed. v1.6

    Okay I can tell you one flaw I have with your pdfs over the original: the original has various bookmarks for ease of jumping to one section or another

    Whoa whoa whoa, what are the "exits" on the classes? why are those there? do they limit what I can exit into, because I don't like that, and wouldn't play this version.
    I'm also on discord as "raziere". Hate is a chain, free yourself.



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    Default Re: [Let's Read] Dungeons the Dragoning 40,000 7th ed. v1.6

    I don't think they limit what you can exit to, rather they not which classes this class will allow you to qualify for on there own. Unfortunately its hard to prove a negative so I can't say that it is always true but that is what it suggests to me.

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    Default Re: [Let's Read] Dungeons the Dragoning 40,000 7th ed. v1.6

    No, the exits aren't limits. They're just the easiest next step.

    Bookmarks. So, um, many posts ago I spoke about the actual process that this was going to take. Step 1 was extracting the (apparently custom/unusual) fonts and getting them into my editors. Step 2 was splitting then entire ~380 page document into ~380 one page documents so I could edit them without paying a year+ subscription to Adobe. And it actually turned out that Adobe Pro would have been terrible for editing large amounts of text anyways. Then of course all the pages had to be reassembled (the program for that is what's breaking the dice roller forms at the end, have to use pro on lunch break to remove & re-add). That ended up with a 89 meg document, too big. Optimization takes it down to 29 megs or a little less.

    Yeah, bookmarks and hyperlinks go in last because there's something like 3 or 4 steps that would break them.

    Edit: also all the classes got evened out, no more creative cross classing to get to 5th level under 20 feats (get evocation through daemonhost/atlantean and have meteor storm when other characters are just about to/unlocking 4th level with no magics/swords). The best I can do is get a very specific gnome cleric build that ends at 3250xp & 5 healing or abjuration when the other classes end out at 3200xp but no swords/magics.

    But keep up the checks. The exits confusion is the sort of thing I need to know about before I finish off a section.

    Edit edit: ok, figured can put "how to read a class" on p.88 or p.89 and will add explanatory annotations in the intro classes. Don't really want to kill the pic on p.89 but may need room. Opinions? Suggestions for a different pic half as wide?
    Last edited by Telok; 2021-04-21 at 12:34 PM. Reason: More stuff

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    Default Re: [Let's Read] Dungeons the Dragoning 40,000 7th ed. v1.6

    https://drive.google.com/file/d/18eS...w?usp=drivesdk

    New version. 30mb, has working rollers and attached vehicle/spelljammer builders.

    You know, turns out it helps if you remember to turn on the image compression stuff when exporting pages to pdf format. One page went from 8mb to under 200kb.

    Updated vampire undead resilience. See, originally it barely did anything, except it referenced the Undead trait in the npc section. That originally just removed I think eating, breathing, and sleeping. Which meant you could technically kill zombies & skeletons with bleeding or knock them out with fatigue.

    One thing I'm doing is building characters, intentionally building ones I wouldn't play or usually build. For just this reason, to find these things.
    "And this, too, shall pass away."

    DtD40k7e rewrite complete.

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    Default Re: [Let's Read] Dungeons the Dragoning 40,000 7th ed. v1.6

    OK I haven't really had time to go into any depth, I tried just skimming it but there is so much going on I couldn't really pick anything out. But there is something I noticed while searching for "exits" for the last post. And that is maybe instead of marking starting/level 1 classes just put the level number there. It feels like knowing being able to pick out level 2, 3, 4 and 5 classes would be helpful.

    Also now I forget, and it just occurred to me so I'm going to skip checking, do you have page references on the class list? That might be useful too.

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    Default Re: [Let's Read] Dungeons the Dragoning 40,000 7th ed. v1.6

    Quote Originally Posted by Cluedrew View Post
    OK I haven't really had time to go into any depth, I tried just skimming it but there is so much going on I couldn't really pick anything out. But there is something I noticed while searching for "exits" for the last post. And that is maybe instead of marking starting/level 1 classes just put the level number there. It feels like knowing being able to pick out level 2, 3, 4 and 5 classes would be helpful.

    Also now I forget, and it just occurred to me so I'm going to skip checking, do you have page references on the class list? That might be useful too.
    Planning on hyperlinking the crud out of the index and classes and feats. Putting some in the "how to play section too". That sound good?

    Edit: also spells, sword schools, and the appendices are the big change areas. Looking for outliers in spells, stuff to absolutely always take or never take. Checking that you'd want to take acsword school to 5 dots (get effectively 50xp per dot to spend on a move when buying a dot of a school). Want the extra stuff to make sense and be readable.

    Have started editing pages from book 2 until probably the weekend. Then will start in on annotate and marking book 1.

    More edit: improved random spelljammer generator, added bookmarks & set page numbering to match, fix 2 typo.

    Next step should be annotating & commentary. Annoying - adobe will do custom mark icons but won't copy/paste, okular will copy/paste but not correctly do custom icons. Searching reveals both issues going back several years.
    Last edited by Telok; 2021-04-29 at 01:45 PM. Reason: Update

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    Default Re: [Let's Read] Dungeons the Dragoning 40,000 7th ed. v1.6

    "And this, too, shall pass away."

    DtD40k7e rewrite complete.

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    Default Re: [Let's Read] Dungeons the Dragoning 40,000 7th ed. v1.6

    Work proceeds on book 2. Page edits through illusion magic completed.

    Working on book 2 appendix materials.
    Sample : magic stuff & daemonic possession appendixes current subject matter
    Spoiler
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    APPENDIX A -- Magic -- grab enchantment and illusion page from other pdf as page 2 of this

    The reason behind rewriting the spells in this revised version is simple, some of them were complete trash and others were hard to figure out. Our methodology for rewriting spells is fairly simple, to make choosing one spell over another into a difficult decision and to better describe the spell's mechanical effects. For example, we took the 5th level Evocation spell Meteor Storm (Book 1, p.??) and the 5th level Healing spell Resurrection (Book 1, p??) as a baselines for 5th level spells and all other 5th level spells were compared to them. We asked would we consider taking the other spell over Meteor Storm or Resurrection? This also gave us a non-spell metric to compare 5th level spell effects to; burning a Hero Point (Book 1, p.??). To survive Meteor Storm (averages about 25 to 30 wounds), or simply not be permanently dead, many characters would have to burn a Hero Point. So a 5th level spell should let us either survive a Meteor Storm, make someone spend more than one Hero Point, burn a Hero Point, or allow someone to not need to a Hero Point. Naturally, some effects don't lend themselves well to that sort of comparison, most illusions and divinations being a good example, and we went with the question "if you had to choose one magic school based on these spells would you choose this school over those schools?" for those.

    Our general magic guidelines are as follows:
    Non-combat spells are incredibly dangerous to cast during combat.
    -- Done by making you helpless until your next turn and having the casting action be at least a Full Action.
    Enable different saving throws (seriously, Enchantment was _all_ Arcana+Willpower saves).
    -- We added: int, dex, com, fel, wis, size, str.
    Enable different attack rolls (using the optional rules presented in the notes).
    -- Level+Attack skill, Dexterity+Attack skill, Arcana+Attack skill, Level+Dexterity, Arcana+Dexterity.
    -- Choose one to use for everything, choose several and let the caster choose, or allow free choice among them all.
    Reduce argument and frustration for SMs and players using illusions and mind control spells.
    -- That's on the next page.
    Attack touch spells last through the caster's next turn so they don't have to provoke and opportunity attack.
    -- Several Evocation touch range attack spells had this issue.
    Non-attack touch spells should provoke an opportunity attack when used offensively.
    -- This is for the spells that can be 'buffs' but may also have negative consequences for the target if used correctly, like the Transformation spell (Book 1, p.??) which stops the target from casting most spells and using pretty much all weapons and armor.
    Spells that don't work right when someone knows you cast a spell on them have to be subtle (a serious issue in some other games).
    -- Consider the effect of Charm Person (Book 1, p.??) if a character had to stand up, wave their arms around, say "I-ay ast-cay arm-chay erson-pay!", and the target knew they rolled a Willpower saving throw against a mind affecting spell at that same moment. It doesn't matter if they'd fail the save, because they know you tried mind control magic on them and therefore you're a terrible person who should be shot and killed.
    All spells are useful and choosing only one is difficult.
    -- The original Permanent Image spell (Book 1, p.??) was the original Image spell (Book 1, p.??) but without the continuing concentration requirement.
    The effects should be reasonably easy to use or rule on because of what they're supposed to do.
    --

    ************************************************** *********
    APPENDIX B -- relevant original text of spells tat were replaced or underwent significant changes **************************

    Presented her in their original text are the are the spells that got whacked. This is for comparison and just in case you wanted to use any of them. Also noted is the reason for the change(s).

    Abj: knock, mage armor, dispel, disjunction, wall of force *2* voidskil, endure
    Conj: servant, call item, blink, gate *2* web, cloud, blade, incend
    Div: augury, mind net *2* legend, forsee, hindsight
    Ench: stun, whatever designated target replaced, geas *2* shock & awe, suggestion, demand, amnesia
    Evo: MM, grasp, aura, wall *2* prismatic ray, lightning ring, maelstrom
    Heal: cures, boon, rebuke, resurrection *2* heal, divine pow
    Illus: programmed & permanent *2* script, deram, mislead, screen
    Necro: speak dead, corrupt earth, consume soul *2* burning blood
    Trans: enlarge, polymorph, dragon form *2* enlarge, stone tell, control weather, iron body

    APPENDIX C -- daemonic possession ************************************************** ***********

    What happens when someone gets possessed by a daemon? Well, it depends on the daemon. We'll be assuming that the possession attempt succeeds here.

    If you're using the Daemons out of the book 1 antagonists chapter take your selected victim and;
    1) Increase their strength, constitution, and willpower by 1 each if it's a lesser daemon, and by 2 each if it's a greater daemon. This can take stats to 6 or higher.
    2) Add the traits Daemonic (+con to AP & HP), Darksight, and Resource.
    3) Increase the victim's level by 1 to a maximum of whatever the possessing daemon's level is.
    4) Increase their Resilience by 1 too. This is so you don't have to worry about if the level increase affected it, we'll just say it did.
    5) Double check that you've recalculated the hit points, speed, and whatever else correctly.
    6) If it's a greater daemon they also get the warp fire breath weapon.

    If you're using our suggested daemon modifications or one of the randomly generated daemons take your victim and;
    1) Increase their strength, constitution, and Resilience by 1. Level by +1 if it's less than the daemon's level.
    2) Add the Darksight trait and make them a daemonhost exalt with a power stat equal to the daemon's level. This means a magic school, bonus armor, resource points, etc.
    3) If the daemon has any feats, special powers, extra magic schools, gun katas, or sword schools you add those too.
    4) Use the better of the daemon's skills or the victim's
    5) Double check that you've recalculated the hit points, speed, and whatever else (don't worry about Resilience) correctly.
    6) If it's a greater daemon they also get the warp fire breath weapon.

    Here, let's take a generated lesser daemon and a regular soldier getting possessed.

    Daemon:Str: 3, Dex: 3, Con: 3, Int: 2, Wis: 3, Will: 3, Cha: 5, Fel: 1, Cmp: 2, Static Defense: 20, Armor(all): 10, Resilience: 4, Hit Points: 9, Init+: 7, Ground speed: 6, Level: 2, Size: 4, Social Defense: 15, Resolve: 7, Resource Points: 12,
    Dodge: 4K3. Weaponry/Parry: 4K2. Sense: 4K3. Stealth: 3K3. Arcana/Detect: 4K2. * Bite/Claws, 5K3, 5K2 R, p0, Tearing. * When down enemy in melee make another attack to adjacent enemy, +1 wound when doing crit dmg, if All Out Attack wounds repeat attack once, test Con vs 10+5/round to resist stuns. Recovers RP equal to wounds from biting and by 3K3 vs 10+2/spent as a free action (fail gains 1 RP and 1 E dmg body wound). May spend 1 Resource to add +2 magic school ranks for the current spell cast. * Fearless(Angry)[immune + 3K3 vs 15 to not fight]. * Illusion at 4k2 (int), Spells: Disguise: TN 10, Self Noncombat Sustain(reaction) S: full sensory disguise, Scrutiny v casting result to detect. Invisibility: TN 15, Self Full Act Subtle, as Stealth roll, pops on offense or 2 minutes. * Arcana:2, 4K2. Perception:1, 4K3. Acrobatics:1, 4K3. Ballistics:2, 4K2. Brawling:3, 5K3. Larceny:2, 5K3. Weaponry:2, 4K2. Inorganic: Immune to breathing, vacuum, mind affecting, bleeding, toxins. Takes half E type damage. Extra Feats: Cleave, Iron Jaw, Devastating Critical, Furious Assault Daemonic: Extra HP and armor. Sees through all darkness. Fear Caster: Fear(1) to31meters, TN 10+5/rank.

    Well, let's only take what we need. (we cheat and npc daemon hosts get their damage reduction as bonus AP for simplicity)
    darksight, daemonhost power level 2, con+2 bonus ap not vs magic/silver, resource points will+cha+4, When down enemy in melee make another attack to adjacent enemy, +1 wound when doing crit dmg, if All Out Attack wounds repeat attack once, test Con vs 10+5/round to resist stuns. Recovers resource points by 3K3 vs 10+2/spent as a free action (fail gains 1 RP and 1 E dmg body wound). May spend 1 Resource to add +2 magic school ranks for the current spell cast. * Fearless(Angry)[immune + 3K3 vs 15 to not fight]. * Illusion at 4k2 (int), Spells: Disguise: TN 10, Self Noncombat Sustain(reaction) S: full sensory disguise, Scrutiny v casting result to detect. Invisibility: TN 15, Self Full Act Subtle, as Stealth roll, pops on offense or 2 minutes. * Arcana:2, Perception:1, Acrobatics:1, Ballistics:2, Brawling:3, Larceny:2, Weaponry:2

    And now the soldier.
    Stats phy=3, else=2, Acrobatics 1, Perception 1, Common Lore 1, Intimidate 2, Scrutiny 1, Weaponry 2, Ballistics 2.
    Speed 6, Size/Resilience 4 / 4, Static Defense 17, HP 7, Feats Weapon Proficiency (Ordinary, Parrying, Las). Sound Constitution x 2, Jaded, Armor Proficiency (light, medium), Armor Flak Vest, Gauntlets,(5 AP; Arms, Body)Helmet (4 AP; Head), Attacks Knife (4k2 R; Pen 0), Lasgun (60m; S/3; 3k2 E; Pen 0; Clip 60; Reload Full), Gear Uniform, Flak Armor, Lasgun, 2 Energy Packs, Micro-bead, Torch, Level 2

    Combine for:
    Str4 dex3 con4 else=2, level 2, resource points 8 [2k2 vs 10+2/spent as a free action (fail gains 1 RP and 1 E dmg body wound)]
    Acrobatics 1 4k3, Perception 1 3k2, Common Lore 1 3k2, Intimidate 2 4k2, Scrutiny 1 3k2, Weaponry 2 4k2, Ballistics 2 4k2, Brawling 3 5k3, Larceny 2 4k2,
    Speed 7, Size/Resilience 4 / 5, Static Defense 17, HP 8, AP flak 5(arms/body) 4(head) + daemon +6(all) not v magic/silver
    When down enemy in melee make another attack to adjacent enemy, +1 wound when doing crit dmg, if All Out Attack wounds repeat attack once, test Con[4k4] vs 10+5/round to resist stuns, Fearless(Angry)[immune + 3K3 vs 15 to not fight]
    SEE IN DARK. May spend 1 Resource to add +2 magic school ranks for the current spell cast.
    Illusion at 4k2 (int), Spells: Disguise: TN 10, Self Noncombat Sustain(reaction) S: full sensory disguise, Scrutiny v casting result to detect. Invisibility: TN 15, Self Full Act Subtle, as Stealth roll, pops on offense or 2 minutes.
    Knife [4k2](5k2 R; Pen 0), Lasgun [4k2](60m; S/3; 3k2 E; Pen 0; Clip 60; Reload Full), unarmed [5k3](4k1 I pen0 +fatigue), Gear Uniform, Flak Armor, Lasgun, 2 Energy Packs, Micro-bead, Torch.

    Heh, he's going to be a problem for someone isn't he? He got a little stronger, rather tougher, has more attack options, and can case Disguise & Invisibility.

    What if we go with the regular by-the-book lesser daemon?
    Stats str4 dex3 con4 will3 else=2, level 2, resource 8, SEE IN DARK
    Acrobatics 1 4k3, Perception 1 3k2, Common Lore 1 3k2, Intimidate 2 4k2, Scrutiny 1 3k2, Weaponry 2 4k2, Ballistics 2 4k2.
    Speed 7, Size/Resilience 4 / 5, Static Defense 17, HP 13, AP 4(all)+flak(5 body/arms)(4 head)
    Feats Weapon Proficiency (Ordinary, Parrying, Las). Sound Constitution x 2, Jaded, Armor Proficiency (light, medium), Armor Flak Vest, Gauntlets,(5 AP; Arms, Body)Helmet (4 AP; Head), Attacks Knife [4k2](5k2 R; Pen 0), Lasgun [4k2](60m; S/3; 3k2 E; Pen 0; Clip 60; Reload Full), Gear Uniform, Flak Armor, Lasgun, 2 Energy Packs, Micro-bead, Torch

    Well... He has more HP and AP than before, almost double. He goes from taking 32 damage (ap 5) before starting to fold to 70 damage (ap 9) before getting into crit 2 territory. Of course the random generation daemon went to 45 damage (ap 11) and got magic plus more & better attack choices.


    Edit: continuing progress. Spells & gun kata edited. Working on vehicle rule pages now. Found minor error/omission in good & best quality armor text. Not replacing the page because it would break many many links, so will live with font inconsistencies and a note blaming proof readers.

    May end up adding pages in this or the spelljamming section, requiring re-numbering all pages after that. Would add pages in pairs to maintain "book look".

    Will note: basically every suggestion anyone put in this thread ended up in the revision.

    Zero-g personal combat appendix
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    APPENDIX F -- ZERO-G COMBAT ************************************************** *********
    DM Note, Fighting in zero-G: It may happen at some point that your players get into a fight where gravity (natural or artificial) is not present. We present these optional rules for movement and fighting in zero-G combat.

    This section depends a lot on the concept of being braced. That means that you're somehow secured on or against something stable. It can be holding onto a strut with one hand, being tied to (immobile) heavy equipment, hooked around a pipe, glued to a wall, or clipped to a tie-down point. One very popular choice is heavy magnetic boots on (most) spaceship hulls. Basically life is just easier if you aren't flailing around without anything to grab hold of and steady yourself on.

    We introduce here a new condition: Out of Control (or "All Spinny" if you like that instead). When you're Out of Control you get half your normal rolled dice to do anything. You can stop being Out of Control if you can grab onto something and brace yourself. Generally you can test any of Athletics, Acrobatics, Brawling, Tech-Use (if you have an appropriate device), Weaponry (for whips), Ballistics (lassoes, fire extinguishers, and grappling hooks), Piloting (jet-packs, and fire extinguishers again), or just about anything you can justify. The base TN is 15 and you get a free raise if you're using something designed for this purpose. That includes grabbing onto crash webbing, those convenient 'don't fall into space' safety lines NASA uses, and the ever popular magnetic space-boots.

    Ranges of thrown and muscle powered projectiles (a kind SM may include crossbows of various sorts) are tripled, other weapon ranges are unaffected as their accuracy/range interaction is not primarily dependent on acceleration due to gravity.

    Your effective strength is halved for melee strikes unless you're braced against something. Damage inflicted by and during grappling is unaffected, as are parrying weapons (using short stabbing motions) and weapons with the Power Field effect.

    The short version of the rest of this: If you aren't braced take cumulative -1k0s until you stop to brace or steady yourself. Getting around is usually TN 15, and stopping is TN 10. If you're hit by an explosion test against the damage or get knocked off and go out of control.

    Melee attacks take a cumulative -1k0 penalty per attack unless you're braced somehow. This carries over from turn to turn as long as you're making continual attacks. If you take the multi-attack action three times in a row using Swift Attack each time your first attack one the first round is at -1k0 and your last attack on the third round will be a -6k0. Projectile weapon attacks take the same penalty for the number of shots that they've previously fired. Using Double Tap for three rounds your first shot is at no penalty, but the last shot is at -5k0. Using automatic weapons without bracing loses the normal +2k1 bonus and applies a penalty equal to half the RoF being used. An long burst from an autogun will get you a -5k0 penalty, doing it again the next round ups then penalty to -10k0 as you spin around in space scattering bullets everywhere. This is when the Grim Servant 'O Death hinderance comes into play. Taking a half action to brace yourself against a solid object or something negates and resets the penalties to zero.

    If you can't fly then you're getting around by climbing (Book 1, p.XXX, but you can't fall and get a free raise to everything), jumping (Book 1, same page, but you travel 10x the 'distance' each round in a straight line and get a free raise), or using some means of artificial propulsion. That's usually a jet-pack (Piloting) or shooting a projectile gun in the opposite direction (Ballistics). Directed energy weapons, needlers, and rocket launchers are just about useless for propulsion. Flamers are actually easier to use as a means of travel since they give a lower but steadier thrust than the explosive jolts of projectiles. Changing direction is often accomplished using Dexterity, perhaps aided by Acrobatics, with a normal TN of 15 modified by how fast you're going and how precisely you need to aim your trajectory. Trying to come to a near stop is just TN 10. Of course you can always grab onto something, brace yourself, and then jump off in the desired direction too.

    Being caught in the blast of an explosion tends to throw people around. If you're braced you can test Athletics+Strength against the damage roll to stay put. That's assuming that you're the one holding on. If it's a piece of equipment doing the holding you just have to hope it doesn't get too damaged. If you aren't braced then you test Acrobatics+Dexterity against the rolled damage to prevent going Out of Control and you're still getting pushed away from the blast. Treat anything that would knock you prone or fling you around in the same manner as an explosion.

    In the course of your game there may come a time when some critter or creature should be naturally adept at zero gravity stuff. Like space kaiju take no form of penalties in ship-to-kaiju combat sort of things. Great. Either they can fly or they have some way to brace themselves (suckers, natural glue, anything your diseased little brain can think of). If they have to roll they automatically get two free raises (or knock 10 of the TN, same thing). There's also immaterial and/or phasing stuff like ghosts. Those annoying buggers just don't bother to roll, they just go.
    Last edited by Telok; 2021-05-22 at 08:00 PM.

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    Default Re: [Let's Read] Dungeons the Dragoning 40,000 7th ed. v1.6

    More appendices
    Character op, not fully settled on the number or type of example characters yet
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    Character optimization is considered a dirty word in some places. This is because it allows some characters to be better at stuff than other characters. Now, normally this isn't an issue. We don't care on combat the barbarian is awesome, the assassin is a glass cannon, and the cleric is just sort of tagging along and helping out. That's because we assume that the assassin is better at stealthy stuff than the other two, the cleric is good at knowing stuff and casting spells where the others can't, and that all of this is relevant in a game. Where the dislike for 'char op' comes from is when a game is only about combat or the cleric manages to be better at combat than the barbarian, better at stealthy stuff than the assassin, and is still the only person who knows stuff and casts spells. Of course that may not be due to any sort of character building, it could be inherent in the game.

    In DUNGEONS THE DRAGONING we've tried to just make everyone awesome so we don't need to care about fiddly pop weenie "balance" or anything. Some effort has gone into trying to make every exalt pretty good in their own way (that's why werewolves got a re-write, they had issues). We've fiddled with the classes a little to make your choice of class track matter a little less. You're still going to want to stick to the fighty type classes for fighting and the magical classes for spell casting, but there's been an attempt to make them all a bit more even and get them all to have more than just 'fight' and 'cast spell' as options. We'll explore some of the extremes in our sample characters.

    Note & Assumptions: With the rewrite you can take up to four hinderances, upping starting character XP to 1000. We're assuming that the player gets to apply that XP in any order and that everything taken applies before they spend the next chunk of XP. We'll do everything by the character creation steps - 1) stats, 2) skills, 3) species, 4) exaltation, 5) class, 6) backgrounds, 7) alignment, 8) XP, 9 equipment package (actually we'll ignore this one most of the time). We also have a very strong tendency to take the Veteran O' the Wheel asset. It costs 100 XP and a semi-hinderance, but if it cranks an attribute up to 5 that's 400 XP you aren't paying later. Add getting a skill up to 5 and that's another 200 XP of value. All the class tracks require two skills at 5 to get into the 5th level, so if you're playing the long game it's completely worth it. If you're playing a short game you should consider it anyways since the three combat skills use the skill level as kept dice, and kept dice are a good thing.

    A: 6 Weaponry Skill. This is how to start with a 6 in a skill, it can actually be any skill if you try hard enough.
    1) strength 4
    2) weaponry 3
    3) tiefling, +1 weaponry (4)
    4) atlantean, weaponry can now go to 6 points, conjuration 1(call item)
    5) swordsman
    6) artifact 3, mithril bionic arm (+1k1 parry & throw)
    inheritance 3, best quality short spear (+1k0 attack, +2 dmg, (s+2)k2 pen3, throwable)
    7) maybe khorn
    8) 200 XP, +1 weaponry (5)
    100 XP, veteran of the wheel, +1 strength (5), +1 weaponry (6)
    200 XP, +1 sword school - white raven (gain 1 free style point to use)
    100 XP, special attack -> standard attack, cavalry weapon, +0k1 dmg, pen0, not used last round, -1k0 attack
    3x hinderance
    100 XP, +1 weapon proficiency (melee 1)
    200 XP, +2 artifact oralchium shield (+2 damage, +3k0 parry, -0k0 attacking)
    So this gets us a basic spear attack of 8k6r1(~45) @ 7k2r1+2(~23) R pen3, a shield parry of 11k7(~53), and a special spear attack of 7k6r1(~42) @ 7k3r1+2(~31) R pen0 & not if used last turn. Next we want to buy the power attack feat, armor feats, and the thrown weapon proficiency. We could also swap in ballistics for weaponry, assimar for tiefling, a gun kata class for swordsman, gun kata for the sword school, and change the artifact to a hunting rifle. This character could still have 3 intelligence & charisma and have a lore, tech-use, and persuasion skills at 3s.

    B: Mega-Evoker. This is how you start out throwing around enough magic to nearly one-shot a lesser daemon.
    1) charisma 4
    2) performer 2, common lore 3
    3) any, say gnome for WP(any) & AP(any)
    4) atlantean, evocation 1(magic missile), reroll warp effects
    5) initiate
    6) artifact 3
    7) likely tezeench
    8) 200 XP, +2 artifact, wraithbone heart (reroll warp effects)
    100 XP, linguist asset
    100 XP veteran of the wheel, +1 charisma (5), +1 common lore (4)
    4 hinderances
    400 XP, divine ministration, hatred(heretics), peer(religion), minor magic
    completed initiate class, next class is bard (level 2) although preacher is another option and the unallocated skills can allow you to qualify for any 1st level class.
    200 XP Power stat +1, can spend 1 resource to +3 level & magic school for the next focus power test
    So this character can spend a resource point to roll 9k5(~41) on the Focus Power test of Magic Missile while counting as a level 5 character for it. That averages five raises on the spell which gets us six missiles doing an average of 10 damage each. The default lesser incarnate daemon has 4 Resilience and 9 HP, meaning it takes 2 wounds per missile and dropping it (on average) to a crit 1 & crit 2. Energy crit 2 to the body is 1d5 level of fatigue on it's 3 Constitution, that gives us a (40%*40%) 16% chance of a fatigue KO on a lesser incarnate daemon _FOR A SINGLE HALF ACTION AND ONE RESOURCE POINT_. Plus the character rolls three or four times for any warp effects and chooses which ones they like, and they have a dot in another magic school. Nothing is stopping this character from loading up on physical attributes, acrobatics, ballistics, and buying a nice gun. Or they could have 3s and a 4 in the mental attributes and load up on brainy skills.

    C: Mr. Disappointment. This is something like the only character we saw that was truly disappointing. It was originally constructed under the original rules, this is about as close as we can get with the revision.
    1) strength 3, dexterity 2, constitution 4, intelligence 1, wisdom 2, willpower 4, charisma 1, fellowship 1, composure 3
    2) brawling 3, athletics 3, acrobatics 2, intimidation 3, command 3, perception 3, academic lore 1
    3) dragonborn, +1 strength (4), +1 intimidate (4), +1 command (4)
    4) dragon blooded, water, +1 strength (5), tearing 1k1 claws
    5) peasant
    6) artifact 3, inheritance 3, fame 2
    7) bahamut
    8) 200 XP, +2 artifact, darksteel power-fist
    200 XP, +2 inheritance, best quality power armor
    150 XP, +1 brawling (4)
    50 XP, +1 background, wealth
    2x hinderance
    100 XP, sturdy, +1 resilience
    100 XP, blood of bahamut, claws & breath weapon @ +1k1 damage
    Note that character had no feats, no ballistics, no weaponry, and no feats at starting. This means taking -14 to the static defense reducing them to zero defense, ineffective dodge, their only attack was 4k4(~23) brawling with a power-fist over their claws (and a lenient ruling about that letting it all stack) for something like 10k5(~43) pen6 + power & tearing. This character sucked down the damage and burned a Hero Point to survive it's second fight. It punched hard, but not much else. Specifically it's actually pretty bad at anything social because of low attributes and can't do much in the way of mental heavy lifting either. In fact you can very nearly build both of the previous two characters under the original rules, and they have much better options.

    D: Hard to Kill.
    1) strength 1, dexterity 2, constitution 4, intelligence 1, wisdom 4, willpower 4, charisma 3, fellowship 1, composure 1
    2) weaponry 3, acrobatics 3,
    3) squat, +1 constitution (5), +1 resilience vs damage, +1 craft (2)
    4) daemonhost, reduce damage by con+power, healing 1(cure light wounds), recover resource by will(4k4(~22)) vs 10+2/spent
    5) rat catcher (for raising dexterity and the +2 HP exit bonus)
    6) artifact 3, hearthstone bracers, +2 ap, mithril hand weapon, +2 defense, +1 parry & feint
    inheritance 3, machinator array, +1 strength (2), +1 resilience, -1 dexterity (1), no swimming
    wealth 2
    7) whatever, the paladin track gets you bonus AP and the rogue track gets you bonus Static Defense, several class tracks give extra Hit Points
    8) 100 XP, veteran of the wheel, +1 wisdom (5), +1 weaponry (4)
    100 XP, sturdy, +1 resilience
    100 XP, +1 inheritance, +1 power armor (+resil +str(2) 12ap -2def 2maxDex)
    100 XP, squat asset using Con instead of Dex for defense
    100 XP, squat asset halving armor defense penalties
    100 XP, asset academy, basic & melee 1
    2x hinderances
    100 XP, daemonhost asset sloth, +2 HP
    100 XP, +1 dexterity (2)
    This gives 20 HP, 7 Resilience, 36-7=29 Static Defense, -6 damage from anything not silver or magic spells, AP 14(all), 5k2(~17=8) dodge and 6k4(~30=15) parry. The character can evade and tank a lot of attacks, and you could change things up a bit by moving the artifact to something like an oralchum flak suit, or a necrometal flak helmet. That would let you get at a higher static defense dexterity for dodging, although at the expense of armor points. In that case you may be interested in the mercenary career as a starting point (although you can't get dexterity from it), or possibly peasant. The unallocated skills give you the option of entering the guardsman (although with one less weaponry skill), tech-priest, paladin, priest, and bard class tracks. One thing to do is buy a shield, that will increase your parrying to 8k4(~35=17). The character does suffer from several low attributes though.

    E: Maximus Crappius. This is demonstration of how to create a character that has serious issues.
    1) strength 4, dexterity 4, constitution 4, intelligence 1, wisdom 4, willpower 1, charisma 1, fellowship 1, composure 1
    2) ballistics 3, acrobatics 3, athletics 2, medicae 3, perception 3, scrutiny 3, intimidate 1
    3) human, +1 dexterity (5), +1 ballistics (4), +1 perception (4)
    4) paragon, danger sense feat, human perseverance asset, +1 constitution (5)
    5) conscript (you actually could do worse)
    6) artifact 3,
    inheritance 2, flak jacket, flak helmet
    7) don't care
    8) 100 XP veteran of the wheel, +1 wisdom (5), +1 acrobatics (4)
    200 XP armor proficiency light, weapon proficiency ranged 2
    200 XP sturdy & sand, +1 resilience & fatigue
    100 XP +1 artifact, necrometal bolt pistol, -2k0 dodge
    So this one shoots at 5k4 & -2k0 dodge, dodges at 8k4, AP 5(all) x2 vs blasts, Resilience 5, 14 HP, 32 Static Defense, and can do perception-medic-scrutiny all at 8k5. And that's it. Shoot good, dodge, spot, detect lies, and first aid. Outside of combat this character is basically helpless. Socially? This one can intimidate at 2k1 and everything else is at 1d10-1. Intellectually? Aside from medicine you're back at no rolls or 1d10-1. Also, fear effects are going to kick this one's butt.

    F: Can Do. This is a character that can do just about anything. Well at least they can try with a real chance of success, unlike some of those other blokes.
    1) strength 3, dexterity 3, constitution 3, intelligence 2, wisdom 3, willpower 2, charisma 3, fellowship 1, composure 1
    2) common lore 3, performer 2, weaponry 2, ballistics 2, acrobatics 1, pilot 1, arcana 1, forbidden lore 1, medicae 1, politics 1, tech-use 1, disguise 1, persuade 1
    3) tau, +1 composure (2), +1 common lore (4), +1 persuasion
    4) paragon, danger sense feat, move & shoot asset, +1 intelligence (3)
    5) minstrel (a legitimate 'little bit of everything' class)
    6) contacts 2, allies 2, backing 2, followers 2
    7) maybe slannesh?
    8) 100 XP, veteran of the wheel, +1 willpower (3), +1 common lore (5)
    100 XP, +1 fellowship (2)
    200 XP, luck, jack of all trades
    100 XP, academy, melee 2 & ranged 1
    50 XP, +1 acrobatics (2)
    50 XP, +1 arcana (2)
    Now this character has 3s in all attributes but fellowship and composure (those are at 2), dots in all the advanced skills, dots in a lot of other skills, and a maxxed out common lore. Luck adds a daily reroll of anything, Jack Of All Trades gives us a bonus on the skills we don't have any dots in, we can participate in ranged, melee, and social combat without feeling incompetent, and grabbing the "Water" starter equipment package gets us an autopistol, fencing sword, mesh vest, and a good stiff drink. We have lots of friends, someone has our back, and eventually you'll buy into magic and/or sword schools. 12 HP, 4 Resilience, not really any armor yet, 20 Static Defense, 5k3(~23=11) dodge, 4k2(~16=8) parry, 3k2(~15=7) stabbing (aiming and/or ganging up helps), and 3k2 shooting (autofire is 5k3(~23)). Sure, you aren't a combat monster like some of the others. But the basic TN for most things is 15 and you start with 3 pressure points. Get to 3rd level and buy your Power stat up to 3 (OK, that's like 1300 XP away, it's a goal) and you'll have 9 pressure point plus get back 3 every round. Missing a TN by one or two points is something you don't have to worry about. Plus, that characters didn't take any hinderances (beyond the veteran of the wheel side effect, but you could do without that if you had to). You can totally pick something like Will To Live and Law Of The Stars to snag Appearance and Dangerous Beauty or start with a dot of a magic or sword school.

    G: Speeding Ticket. This is a character specced for speed. It also helps that they're really surprisingly hard to kill and all around decently skilled.
    1) strength 2, dexterity 4, constitution 3, intelligence 1, wisdom 4, willpower 2, charisma 2, fellowship 1, composure 2
    2) arcana 1, academic lore 1, perception 1, medicae 1, forbidden lore 1, politics 1, brawling 3, acrobatics 2, stealth 2, larceny 1, animal ken 2, disguise 1, scrutiny 1
    3) halfling, +1 intelligence (2), +1 larceny (2), +1 deceive
    4) werewolf, wolf-form, war-form, regeneration, lycan resilience
    5) outcast (not actually important, go with whatever you want)
    6) artifact 3, mithril bionic legs, +2 speed, +2k0 acrobatics
    inheritance 3, good quality bionic heart, fleet of foot feat, +2 armor gizzards
    7) probably luna
    8) 100 XP academy asset, melee 2 & ranged 1
    100 XP veteran of the wheel, +1 dexterity (5), +1 brawling(4)
    100 XP halfling agility asset, +4 static defense
    100 XP werewolf asset, silent striders, transmutation 1 dot & +1k1 focus power, swift change
    100 XP fast asset, +2 speed, run at x7
    100 XP sturdy asset, +1 resilience
    Here we have a character with 10 HP, 4 Resilience, lycan armor(1/4/6) & +2 gizzards, 40 Static Defense, 9k5(~40=20) dodge, and (part of the point of this whole thing) 11 speed with a run of 77. Fleet of foot lets you double that running speed, at a cost of course. Then there's the Transmutation magic at 6k5(~33) which you will probably mostly cast fettered at 3k3(~18). Swift change (TN 15) is nice but not amazing, next level you pick up Animal Power and you can boost your dexterity with it. You also have the wolf- and war- forms of a werewolf. Combined with the 4 dots of brawling you can fight pretty well, but it's the wolf-form with it's +2 dexterity, -1 size, regeneration, and quadruped trait. Wolf-form increases speed to 26 (run 184, fleet of foot to double that) and static defense to 40+12(halfling & dexterity)+2(size)=54, plus dodge. Sure, even you war-form melee damage isn't amazing at 6k1 but moving your skills around can qualify you for monk or one of the warrior classes that gets damage boosts or sword schools. We do suggest picking up a few dots of ballistics and a grenade or rocket launcher for blasts, or perhaps a good flamer. The 'hard to kill' part comes form your ability to skip into wolf-form (Swift Change, Free Action), run away (Run with Fleet of Foot, Full Action), hide (9k7 in wolf form ~50), and regenerate (might want to pick up healing magic to deal with wounds from silver weapons).

    H: Buddy! This is a character with so many friends that pissing them off is like pissing off an army, a fleet, another party of exalts, and a zombie horde.
    1) intelligence 4, charisma 3, fellowship 3
    2) persuasion 2, scrutiny 2
    3) gnome, +1 intelligence (5), any weapon & armor proficiency
    4) vampire, +4 backgrounds, easy resource point regeneration
    5) negotiator
    6) allies, backing, followers, mentor, all at 3
    7) don't care
    8) 200 XP, +2 backing (5), admiral of a fleet
    200 XP, +2 followers (5), 10k loyal troops
    200 XP, +2 allies (5), five other Level 1 exalts
    1x hinderance
    100 XP, vampire asset, tremere, 1 dot necromancy & +1k1 focus power tests
    optional 3x more hinderances
    250 XP, contacts 4, a spy network?
    50 XP, wealth? fame? status? artifact? raise a skill from 1 to 2?
    This one is pretty rough on the SM, so get the OK first. You're getting serious social power through the courtier class track, plus another point of backing for each level of completion. You want 3rd level and 3 dots of necromancy to start animating the dead (you could go werewolf/transmutation and get the elemental/spirit allies thing going by changing the exaltation and asset). And you don't have to be bad in combat; take ballistics 3, put on flak armor, requisition a SAW and blaze away on full auto. If you drop the contacts to 3 you can get an asset like appearance (+2k0 some social rolls) or education (5 skill specialties). There's also the option of picking up the first level of the sorcerer class track to get necromancy normally, that frees up the vampire asset to be ventrue which gets you another peerage, a contact, and a wealth test bonus.

    I: Speed Run. This character tries to skip through the classes as fast as possible to get to 5th level first.
    1) whatever
    2) academic lore 3, forbidden lore 3, weaponry 3, craft 2, acrobatics 1
    3) dark eldarin, +1 dexterity/charisma, +1 deceive, +1 forbidden lore (4)
    4) promethian, ignore all armor proficiency feats
    5) initiate
    6) whatever, followers and wealth is good for having repair minions around
    7) whatever, not khorne though
    8) 400 XP, divine ministration, hatred, minor magic(healing), peer
    exit initiate, enter preacher via healing magic
    200 XP, spell focus, sound constitution
    4x hinderances
    200 XP, Virgil's guidance, divine grace
    exit preacher, enter defender via divine grace & peer
    100 XP, veteran of the wheel, +1 attribute, +1 forbidden lore (5)
    100 XP, true grit
    The character needs to buy weaponry to 5 (250 XP), and 8 feats (800 XP) to get to level 5. After 5 more feats they can exit the chevalier class and proceed into anything they qualify for. This character has no weapon proficiencies (although there is an option to take one in the paladin class), modest healing abilities, and reasonable combat & social ability.

    Final Advice:
    Low attributes are weak points for your character. High attributes are great because they're both rolled and kept dice. In the original edition almost all magical saves were Arcana + Willpower, with a few Arcana + Constitution or Arcana + Wisdom. This revision has worked to vary the saves (and fear effects) so that Willpower isn't a sort of super-attribute. To this end a number of spells now call for saving throws using Intelligence, Fellowship, Composure, Strength, Size, and other attributes. While you're perfectly free to make a combat whore with 1s in Intelligence, Charisma, Fellowship, and Composure, it's going to hurt. It won't just be the rest of the party carrying you through social encounters and puzzles. A Mind Flayer can drop a 8k5 Stun spell on you averaging over 35 on the Focus Power test, meaning you need a 26+ Arcana + Composure to not be stunned for a round and then lose two half actions after that. You need at least 6k3 to average that, and Stun isn't the worst thing that can happen.


    Perils of the warp probabilities. The literal worst case scenario character(s) for popping a warp roll, percent chances, simple mitigation, and two ways to make effective and safe (99.5%+ safety) casters.
    Spoiler
    Show
    APPENDIX FOO -- safe, boring, predictable magic
    Safe casting

    People are amazingly afraid of the magic system, they read the worst results on the perils of the warp charts and assume that they happen regularly. They look at the TNs of the spells and think they can't reliably cast spells without pushing the spell and invoking the warp. Obviously they haven't actually tried the magic system or checked the math. That's what we'll do here. Now let's fire up the calculators.

    Let's take out worst case scenarios for having to roll for warp effects, vampire necromancers and werewolf transmuters. A vampire with the Tremere asset and 5 intelligence can roll 7k6 to cast a TN 15 first rank spell. 90% of the results are 28 or higher, massive overkill for a first rank spell. You can reliably cast third rank spells with that, before factoring in rerolls. Checking our handy probability chart (link & page ref) tells us that 5k4 has a 97% success rate for TN 15s, running that on the calculator get us 3.3% of the results in the 1-14 range. The chart is right, so looking at casting fettered we see that 3k3 gets us a 66% chance to cast TN 15 and the calculator says 67% +/- a couple 1/10s of a percent which nicely rounds down to 66%. Get yourself to 2nd level, spend 100xp to pick up the second rank of necromancy and you have 4k4, giving you a 90% chance to get TN 15 and 69% chance to get TN 20. Great, so you don't need to risk warp rolls to cast spells.

    But what if you want to? Or maybe the character just has a 3 intelligence and is rolling that 5k4. Ok, probability check time. We'll do this the simple way, it's longer but more illustrative of how the probabilities work.

    There is a 10% chance that any one die rolls a 10. All seven dice rolling 1-9s is .9*.9*.9*.9*.9*.9*.9 = .9^7 = .478 = 47.8% chance of rolling no 10s at all. But wait, we can drop a die. OXXXXXX = .9^6 (because we don't care what one of the dice is as we're dropping it) = 53.1% chance of six dice having no 10s. Now that's not the whole story, because we're dropping a die. 90% of the time we don't care if all six of the rest of the dice are _ALL_ 1-9, because we have a 7th die. We only care 10% of the time. And that's only considering if the first die is a 10, one of the later dice could be a 10 and get dropped instead. So working this out; 10%*53.1% is 5.31% which is the chance that the first die is a 10 and the rest are not 10s, and there are 7 dice that can turn up 10s so 7*5.31%=37.18% rounding to 38.3% means that is how often one of our dice is a 10 that we can drop. Add that to the 'no tens' odds and we get 37.2%+47.8% = 85%, or slightly better than a 5/6 chance that we don't get warp effects. Yup, that's pretty dangerous. You might want to consider not blindly casting at maximum power every time.

    That's our worst case scenario, and it's a little risky. Too risky for some people. Let's do a bit better. An eldarin can take a racial trait to add +1k0 to all Focus Power tests, a dragon-blooded exalt has a +1k0 to all Focus Power tests, the Apprentice class offers you the feat Implement Focus to reroll any one die on a Focus Power test, a daemonhost exalt can spend a resource point to add their power stat as rolled dice on a Focus Power test, adding a second rank to your magic school adds another rolled die, and an atlantean exalt with their power stat at rank 2 can spend a resource point to add +3 to their rank for a Focus Power test. Let's just take that risky vampire necromancer and take them up to level 2, spending 100xp to get the second rank of Necromancy. Now they're rolling 8k6, dropping two dice (why you've decided not to cast fettered for a first rank spell is your problem). Frankly this is where the math starts getting annoying. We've decided not to write out what hundreds of college statistics book have written over the past century and more, if you want the full explanation you can look it up somewhere. Run through our stats calculator we ended up with a 3.8% chance of having to roll for a warp event on 8k6, that's a 96% safety rate and the warp still isn't guaranteed to be anything more than a nuisance or harmless cosmetic change to the environment. Going with 7k6 and rerolling a die is slightly easier math, that 15% warp chance comes from having 2+ dice on 10s. Now if it's 3+ dice showing 10s you're out of luck, but that's a 2.6% occurrence and the remaining 15%-2.6% = 12.4% of the time it's two dice with 10s. Reroll one of them and you have a 90% chance of it not being a 10, so 12.4%*90% = 11.16% safety in addition to the base 85% safety of 7k6 gives us 97.16% safe spell casting. So adding just a single die reroll takes our worst case scenario from 15% warp events down to 2.8% warp events, even safer than increasing your rolled dice by 1.

    So, ya want to case spell safely? Let's go all-in on safety here. Dragon-blooded eldarin apprentice with an implement and a wraithbone bionic heart. That's 3 background points, 100xp for a 4th background point, 100xp for a racial asset, 200xp for a magic school, and 100xp for the Tested feat. If they have the full 5 attribute for the magic school they roll 7k5, reroll one die, and roll four times on the warp tables, finally picking the roll that they like best. So 7k5 gives us a 2.57% warp rate, of which 2.3 of that is three 10s, rerolling saves us 90% reducing it to 2.57-2.3+(2.3*.9) = 0.5% chance of rolling on the warp tables. We roll twice on the default Book 1 chart (p.152) at +5, each has a 30% chance of kicking up from the Psychic Phenomena table to the Perils of the Warp table, and each has a 18% chance to get an actually potentially dangerous result on the perils table. Those run out to a 9% chance at both rolls being Perils, a 3.78% chance at one roll being Perils and the other being dangerous, plus a 3.24% chance of both rolls being dangerous. Which all comes to a grand total of .00045% chance of Perils of the Warp and .00035% chance of a dangerous Psychic Phenomena roll, all-in-all a .0008% chance of actual danger. This means that for this character casting spell has a similar chance of causing a warp roll as a random American driving 330 miles (530 km) will have of having an automobile accident, and the rate of potentially dangerous warp events is about twice that as the American has of being killed in the accident.

    Another method of achieving safety is an atlantean exalt with a wraithbone bionic heart using their rank 2 power stat ability to add +3 to a magic school for a Focus Power test. That gives them three more rolled dice to drop, and being an atlantean they could already roll a warp effect twice and choose which result they wanted. Combined with the wraithbone bionic heart they'll roll any warp effects four times and get to choose one.

    Also a Chosen of Tzeench is quite safe as they, personally, don't suffer from the warp effects. Sure, you can still tech scorn (Book 1, p.152) the helicopter you're riding in. But being an exalt in a helicopter in this game is just asking to get blown out of the sky anyways. Besides, you should have remembered to pack a parachute.


    Surviving an orbital strike. Or, "how I learned to stop worrying and stat up the npcs coming for revenge"
    Spoiler
    Show
    Appendix K -- Surviving orbital strikes. ************************************************** *********************

    So your players decided the best thing to do was to take off and nuke a city from orbit, or maybe there's just one person in the city they really don't like and they don't care about collateral damage. Your question now is "who lived? and just how pissed off are they?". Well we've tried to do some calculations for you on the 'who' part of that.

    First, who is how tough?
    resilience chart
    size level 1/2/3/4/5
    2 3/3/4/4/5
    3 3/4/4/5/5
    4 4/4/5/5/6
    5 4/5/5/6/6

    Second, how many of them are there?
    assumption - 70% per level, therefore 70% of the population is level 1, then 70% of the remaining 30% is level 2, etc.
    Second part two, how many hit points do they have?
    assumption - 70% per dot > 1, therefore 70% have con+will of 4, then 70% of the remaining 30% have a con+will of 6, etc.

    L1: [email protected] 4/6/8/10 => .49=16, .147=24, .0441=32, .0189=40
    L2: [email protected] 4/6/8/10 => .147=16, .0441=24, .01323=32, .00567=40
    L3: [email protected] 4/6/8/10 => .0441=20, .01323=30, .003939=40, .001701=50
    L4: [email protected] 4/6/8/10 => .01332=20, .003939=30, .0011907=40 .0005403=50
    L5: [email protected] 4/6/8/10 => .00567=24, .001701=36, .0005103=48 .0002187=60

    Third, rounding happens, we multiply HP by resilience to get a damage threshold
    This gives us how much damage it takes to run someone out of hit points
    16=.64, 24=.25, 32=.075, 40=.03, 50=.0041, 60=.0008, more=.0001

    Fourth, more rounding, assuming that half the hits are explosive and half are energy we check the critical charts to determine the percentage chance of a level of critical damage resulting in death (bleeding + stun/KO = death here). Cross referenced with our damage limits we get how many of what hit point levels will survive a specific amount of damage.

    tuf=>.5 .1 .05
    16=>28,32,36 => 25=.68, 30=.42
    24=>36,40,44 => 35=.23, 40=.13
    32=>44,48,52 => 45=.07, 50=.04
    40=>55,60,65 => 55=.02, 60=.008
    50=>65,70,75 => 65=.003, 70=.0013
    60=>78,84,90 => 80=.0005, 85=.0002
    90+=.0001

    You can use this chart to find the chance that any particular person survived a particular bombardment. Multiply their hit points by their resilience and look it up in the 'tough' column, rounding up or down based on armor, feats, traits, and your estimation of their circumstances. Check your damage amount from the bombardment. If it's in the range of the three numbers you can roll percentage dice for their survival; the '.5' column is 50%, the '.1' column is 10%, and the '.05' column is 5%. Remember that bleeding + being incapacitated (stun/fatigue) results in a fair number of the deaths at the .5 and .1 levels. If something is immune to bleeding, stunning, fatigue, etc., then it is pretty much certain to survive in those columns.

    Fifth, we collapse step four into a general chart to tell up what the overall population survival rate is.

    damage done in area = survival rate
    25=68% (~half are 1st level)
    30=42% (~90% are level 2+)
    35=23% (~half are 2nd level)
    40=13% (~90% are level 3+)
    45= 7% (~half are 3rd level)
    50= 4% (~90% are level 3+)
    55= 2% (~half are 4th level)
    60= .8% (~90% are level 5)
    65= .3% (~99% are level 5
    70= .13% (~99.9% are level 5)
    80= .05% (level 5s)
    85= .02% (level 5s)
    90+=.001% (level 5s)

    Find the amount of damage done to an area and you'll know what percentage of the population survived and have some idea of what levels they are. These numbers are for non-exalts and normal people. So NOT stuff that doesn't bleed, stun, fatigue, have double HP or inherent armor, has Con/Will/Level stat(s) at 6+, has Resilience/Size at 7+, gets Hero Points, etc. We aren't considering being inside buildings, being under cover, behind a car, etc., because a lot of that stuff is going to fall down, explode, or catch fire. We just assume that the resulting wreckage kills as many people as being covered saves.

    As an example say a city has a million people. It takes an array hit that covers 60% of the city, 600,000 bodies. Damage is rolled at 53, evenly spread across the whole area because it's an array bombardment. Look at the chart... 4% survival, that's 24,000 survivors, 90% are level 3+. If we want more detail we check that 1% of the 32s survived, about than 50% of the 40s survived, and everyone higher made it out OK. 32=.075*.05=2250, 40=.03=18000, 50=.0041=2460, 60=.0008=480, more=.0001=60 == 23250, so what's 750 missing people between friends anyways? Now the 60s are all level 5, the 50s are .001701 level 3s with 5s in stats, .0005403 level 4s with 5s in stats, and .0005103 level 5s with 4s in stats. Meaning the 50s are about a 3/1/1 split between 3s/4s/5s, 2450/5=490 yields about 1500 level 3s, 500 level 4s and 500 level 5s (there's 50 of our missing people, rounding errors). Repeat for the 40s gives us .001701 L5s, .003939 L4s, .01323 L3s, .00567 L2s, and .0189 L1s, sum is .04344. Now .0189/.04344=.435, .435*18000=7830, that's how may level 1 people with 5s in constitution and willpower survived. You can repeat all that to find and population segment you want.

    Modrons: Our games ended up with lots of "blast the place from orbit and run away real fast" where modrons were concerned. Even when the place being blasted was an inhabited space. So lets use them as an example of how we handled exceptional critters getting nuked. The base monodrone has Resilience 5, 10 HP, True Grit (half critical damage), AP 4(all), Regeneration(1), Stuff of Nightmares, and 'We'll Be Back'. So they're a 5*10=50, but instead of the +15 more damage to reach crit-3 the True Grit feat makes it +30 more damage, except that Stuff of Nightmares and Regeneration makes it take a full crit-5 to put one down. That looks like another +20, meaning we need around 100 damage to reliably crit-kill a monodrone. Then 'We'll Be Back' gives them a 34.5% chance to just stand back up anyways. This actually makes all out math easier. We simply ignore any bombardment less than 100 damage, then 35% survive each bombardment (blame any rounding errors on armor and cover). Duodrones are 6*16 = 96+(30[crit-5]*2[true grit]) = 156 damage and a little more armor plus they still get the same 'We'll Be Back'. It's a shame that the PCs never stuck around to find out just how ineffective their array based area saturation orbital bombardments were. Modrons are practically immune to anything short of direct hits by lance weapons and torpedoes.

    Buildings & Cover: -- 2 column format
    damage, effect on cover/buildings, this gives you an idea of what sort of structures will still be standing after a bombardment. check the cover table on page ?? of book 1 for examples of types of cover.

    3, ap 2 @ 50% -> now ap 1
    5, ap 2 destroyed
    4, ap 3 @ 50% -> now ap 2
    8, ap 3 destroyed
    9, ap 4 @ 50% -> now ap 2
    10, ap 5 @ 50% -> now ap 3
    12, ap 4 destroyed
    17, ap 5 destroyed
    16, ap 6 @ 50% -> now ap 3
    19, ap 7 @ 50% -> now ap 4
    23, ap 6 destroyed
    27, ap 8 @ 50% -> now ap 4
    30, ap 7 destroyed
    31, ap 9 @ 50%
    38, ap 8 destroyed
    41, ap 10 @ 50%
    47, ap 9 destroyed
    52, ap 11 @ 50%
    57, ap 10 destroyed
    59, ap 12 @ 50%
    64, ap 13 @ 50%
    68, ap 11 destroyed
    78, ap 14 @ 50%
    80, ap 12 destroyed
    85, ap 15 @ 50%
    93, ap 13 destroyed
    101, ap 16 @ 50%
    107, ap 14 destroyed
    109, ap 17 @ 50%
    122, ap 15 destroyed
    127, ap 18 @ 50%
    135, ap 19 @ 50%
    138, ap 16 destroyed
    155, ap 17 destroyed
    156, ap 20 @ 50%
    166, ap 21 @ 50%
    173, ap 18 destroyed
    188, ap 22 @ 50%
    192, ap 19 destroyed
    199, ap 23 @ 50%
    212, ap 20 destroyed
    223, ap 24 @ 50%
    233, ap 21 destroyed
    255, ap 22 destroyed
    278, ap 23 destroyed
    302, ap 24 destroyed

    You can also use this chart for general cover damage, but be aware that this is calculated as 'big hit to the whole thing' damage. Generally smaller weapons (bullets, lasers) put smaller holes in stuff, that's why cover AP degrades one at a time. We like to degrade cover AP multiple levels at a time for explosives, short range shotguns, and big full auto bursts (reduce AP by # shots at the max, no matter how much damage was done). That's where this chart could come in handy, when you're talking wide structural damage to the cover instead of little holes.

    ************************************************** **************
    APPENDIX L -- how to throw bombs

    The blast vs. bag of rats issue. So you chuck a krak grenade at someone, there's no blast radius on it so you have to hit their static defense. Ok, no problems, works like all the other attacks. You chuck a frag grenade with a blast(4) at them and miss... Where'd the grenade go? Say you want to blow up several people at once (not minions) so you're trying to land the grenade in the middle of them... What's the TN? Blast radius makes this important and it's unaddressed in the original base rules. You can theoretically place a small shielded remote control vehicle (rarity uncommon, size 1, static defense 5 @ mom 1-5, man -4, vtol, remote control, void shield 1, 6m/mom, speed 1, accel 3, and going to size 2 with a void 15 for the same price isn't hard) next to your target and throw explosives at that. We tried TN 5 & TN 10 to land a shot at an unmoving spot, that had issues because it meant nobody ever missed dropping a grenade exactly 1m away from their target. What to do?

    We came up with the following setup for blast weapons:

    You shoot directly at the person and miss? You miss by 1m per range increment per check on the attack roll (1m at short, 2m at normal, 3m at long, 4m at extreme). Estimate the surrounding area and randomize a scatter (we have a die with arrows on it or use a d12 for a clock face directional). If it's not some indirect, arcing, attack (or a shot from above?) then don't just scatter it across a flat map on the table. Figure what it would look like from the shooter's point of view and scatter that way (make pictures), the shot could go off into space or hit a low wall right in front of you.

    You want to shoot at a point near someone to catch them (or several people) in the blast? Roll your attack and add the blast number to the total (roll a 24 with a blast(4) and it's 24+4=28). Check that number against all their static defenses and see if there's a spot that would get everyone hit and exclude everyone missed. That's where it lands. The nice bit about this is that as it's not a direct attack it can't be dodged without a stunt that uses the environment to gain cover, and then that's just cover so it can still potentially penetrate to deal damage. If you missed the shot do the normal scatter as above but the minimum distance is whatever is required to miss then whole group.

    The explanation behind all this, the 'fiction layer' or 'narration' if you like that terminology, is that the character is trying to hit a moving target. When you do that you lead the target, shoot at where it's going to be when the shot gets out to that range. Since most explosives are thrown or launched at lower velocities you have to take a bigger lead with them. So you try to anticipate where the target will be when your shot/pitch will get there and make the throw. The misses are potentially a combination of bad guessing, bad timing, bad aim, and/or the target being able to see the incoming projectile and move somewhere else.

    Yeah, it doesn't fix a knocked out rat 1m from someone being auto-hit (unconscious & helpless conditions, book 1, p.??) and automatically catching the other guy in the blast. We can't fix everything for you. Just don't be a jerk-ass about it and everything should work out. If someone is being a jerk about it point out that the rules work the same for the NPCs as it does for the PCs. What one person does, another person can replicate.


    Oops. Accidentally copied the blast weapon advice too. Ok.
    "And this, too, shall pass away."

    DtD40k7e rewrite complete.

  29. - Top - End - #209
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    Default Re: [Let's Read] Dungeons the Dragoning 40,000 7th ed. v1.6

    So here I am providing the best feedback I can with no understanding of the rules. (I also somehow completely forgot about A-C, so I have nothing to say on them.)

    On Zero-G: Only hiccup is I did not immediately realise that braced and out-of-control are not opposites. Maybe give not braced but still in control a name, say floating, controlled or stable. But I figured that out a few lines later and everything else seems to be at a consistent level of detail.

    On Characters: Maybe use the actual section names instead of the numbers. Otherwise I think some additional formatting would help, put that is a pretty good spread of characters. I think the system is uniform enough (or perhaps the opposite) that between the combat and social examples you have roughly laid out how to be good at something, you got the generalist and a couple counter examples. Seems like a good spread. I guess you could consider moving some of the general advice to character creation directly but a pointer from there to here would avoid bloat for those who just want to see the rules. Do you have reference to the appendices in the main text already?

    On Warp: This is actually a very clever addition. I haven't double checked the math but everything seems good. This one I think could be really trimmed down because I think you don't need the explanation of the math in the middle. Maybe I'm miss-judging but between those who don't care about the math and those who would do it themselves, you could just say the name of the distribution, show (but don't explain) the math for each case and then elaborate on the result. Disclaimer: I've done work on my own dice mechanics before so I might be a bit of an outlier. The on other hand is there anything you can say about once a warp effect happens how bad it is likely to be. That is an honest question I have completely forgotten.

    On Explosions: I just had trouble following these. Maybe you could open with the results and then explain them, or at least highlight the bit at the end that has the concrete advice. Also in the "tuf" table there are rows with two "=>" and I'm not sure what everything to the right of those. I also have trouble with the buildings/cover table, the destroyed entries seem pretty clear but I'm not sure why they are mixed with 50% entries and only some of those reduce ap. On a less practical note the fact that this section exists makes me very happy for some reason.

  30. - Top - End - #210
    Troll in the Playground
     
    Telok's Avatar

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    Default Re: [Let's Read] Dungeons the Dragoning 40,000 7th ed. v1.6

    Thanks. Book 1 is done, I'm only occasionally adding annotations or removing or changing a number or two. Latest hasn't been uploaded and don't recall if the last link (4ish note adding sessions ago) is still live. I replaced like a 20-30 page terrible "example of play" and then added another 20-30 pages. All appendices.

    Book 1 has to stand alone. I mentioned book 2 but didn't reference it. Also didn't know if I'd be adding pages in book 2 so couldn't be sure of page numbers.

    And... family interrupt lost train of thought more later maybe. But thanks.

    Edit: ok, couple days later.

    A little clarify early in zg combat.

    More explain of warp threats and a % compare of auto roller vs book tables (need search back in this thread, I did one of those).

    Recheck and maybe more comments in character gen in book 1 - also I recall there is some char gen advice in the dice probability & setting TM appendix in book 1, maybe. Labels instead of numbers, page refs for stuff.

    Another pass on orbital bombardment. Less math, more labels on the tables. The "tuf" thing is because dmg/resil = wounds so you can hp*resil = dmg, but people die from crits. I don't normally worry in most combats for most nameless enemies, they definite go runner at 0 hp and down on the next hit. But technially people die from crit effects, and for the E & X crits potential death effects happen 5/10 hit locations at crit 3 & 8 or 9 /10 for crit 4. So there's a sort of "almost negative hp" where people get broken limbs & KOs but survive. So a resil 4, hp 4, normal takes 16 dmg to hit 0 hp and another 12 dmg to get crit 3, meaning a 28 dmg hit to 50% kill a normal non-combatant peasant.
    Last edited by Telok; 2021-05-31 at 06:49 PM.

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