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  1. - Top - End - #211
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    Default Re: [Let's Read] Dungeons the Dragoning 40,000 7th ed. v1.6

    Ok, updated safe safe magic use blarg. Has brute force calculated probabilities.
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    APPENDIX FOO -- safe, boring, predictable magic
    Safe casting

    People are amazingly afraid of the magic system, they read the worst results on the perils of the warp charts and assume that they happen regularly. They look at the TNs of the spells and think they can't reliably cast spells without pushing the spell and invoking the warp. Obviously they haven't actually tried the magic system or checked the math. That's what we'll do here. Now let's fire up the calculators.

    Let's take out worst case scenarios for having to roll for warp effects, vampire necromancers and werewolf transmuters. A vampire with the Tremere asset and 5 intelligence can roll 7k6 to cast a TN 15 first rank spell. 90% of the results are 28 or higher, massive overkill for a first rank spell. You can reliably cast third rank spells with that, before factoring in rerolls. Checking our handy probability chart (link & page ref) tells us that 5k4 has a 97% success rate for TN 15s, running that on the calculator get us 3.3% of the results in the 1-14 range. The chart is right, so looking at casting fettered we see that 3k3 gets us a 66% chance to cast TN 15 and the calculator says 67% +/- a couple 1/10s of a percent which nicely rounds down to 66%. Casting fettered is always perfectly safe and you succeed 2/3rds of the time. Get yourself to 2nd level, spend 100xp to pick up the second rank of necromancy and you have 4k4 when casting fettered, giving you a 90% chance to get TN 15 and 69% chance to get TN 20. Great, so you don't need to risk warp rolls to cast spells.

    But what if you want to? Or maybe the character just has a 3 intelligence and is rolling that 5k4. Ok, probability check time. We'll do this the simple way, it's longer but more illustrative of how the probabilities work.

    There is a 10% chance that any one die rolls a 10. All seven dice rolling... You know what? We had a long math thing going here. Then we decided to use technology, wrote a little script, and brute forced our statistics. Trust us or do the work yourself, the brute force tests matched our math results and were more precise. We made the computer roll each test a million times.
    kept none: 0.850049
    kept 1: 0.124257
    kept 2: 0.022996
    kept 3: 0.002514
    kept 4: 0.000177
    kept 5: 0.000007
    A 1/6 chance of having to roll for warp crap. Yup, that's pretty dangerous. You might want to consider not blindly casting at full power every time.

    That's our worst case scenario (well 10k10 would be the worst but we can't get there), and it's a little risky. Too risky for some people. Let's do a bit better. An eldarin can take a racial trait to add +1k0 to all Focus Power tests, a dragon-blooded exalt has a +1k0 to all Focus Power tests, the Apprentice class offers you the feat Implement Focus to reroll any one die on a Focus Power test, a daemonhost exalt can spend a resource point to add their power stat as rolled dice on a Focus Power test, adding a second rank to your magic school adds another rolled die, and an atlantean exalt with their power stat at rank 2 can spend a resource point to add +3 to their rank for a Focus Power test. Let's just take that risky vampire necromancer and take them up to level 2, spending 100xp to get the second rank of Necromancy. Now they're rolling 8k6, dropping two dice (why you've decided not to cast fettered for a first rank spell is your problem).
    kept none: 0.962162
    kept 1: 0.032825
    kept 2: 0.004586
    kept 3: 0.000403
    kept 4: 0.000024
    Run through our stats calculator we ended up with a 3.7838% chance of having to roll for a warp event on 8k6, that's better than a 96% safety rate and the warp still isn't guaranteed to be anything more than a nuisance or harmless cosmetic change to the environment.

    Going with 7k6 and rerolling a die is easier. We'll reroll every time get get a single 10, therefore we add the times we kept one 10 to the times we kept zero 10s, 85.0049+12.4257 = 97.4306% safe. So adding just a single die reroll takes our worst case scenario from 15% warp events down to 2.6% warp events, even safer than increasing your rolled dice by 1.

    So, ya want to cast spells safely? Let's go all-in on safety here. Dragon-blooded eldarin apprentice with an implement and a wraithbone bionic heart. That's 3 background points, 100xp for a 4th background point, 100xp for a racial asset, 200xp for a magic school, and 100xp for the Tested feat. If they have the full 5 attribute for the magic school they roll 7k5, reroll one die, and roll four times on the warp tables, finally picking the roll that they like best.
    kept none: 0.974393
    kept 1: 0.022938
    kept 2: 0.002486
    kept 3: 0.000174
    kept 4: 0.000009
    So 7k5 gives us a 2.5607% warp rate, of which 2.2938 of that is three 10s rolled forcing us to keep a 10. Rerolling saves us 90% reducing it to 2.56-2.3+(2.3*.9) = 0.5% chance of rolling on the warp tables. Once out of every 200 casts, before we level up and buy the next dot of magic and get even safer. We roll twice on the default Book 1 chart (p.152) at +5, each has a 30% chance of kicking up from the Psychic Phenomena table to the Perils of the Warp table, and each has a 18% chance to get an actually potentially dangerous result on the perils table. Those run out to a 9% chance at both rolls being Perils, a 3.78% chance at one roll being Perils and the other being dangerous, plus a 3.24% chance of both rolls being dangerous. Which all comes to a grand total of .00045% chance of Perils of the Warp and .00035% chance of a dangerous Psychic Phenomena roll, all-in-all a .0008% chance of actual danger (that being any insanity gain, hit point damage, 1d5 Fatigue, daemon summoning, and of course the instant death results). This means that for this character casting spell has a similar chance of causing a warp roll as a random American driving 330 miles (530 km) will have of having an automobile accident, and the rate of potentially dangerous warp events is about twice that as the American has of being killed in the accident.

    Just in case you're interested the "danger level" of the warp tables is:
    Psychic phenomena: 3% 1 insanity if rolling a with a mod less than +10, 3% Fear(1), 3% fall 1d10m, 3% 1d5 wounds & Fear(2), 3% tech jamming & if bionics save Con 15 vs 1d5 wounds, 26+mod % chance of rolling on the Perils table. That's 15% chance of insanity/hp/fear/tech danger plus the 26+% chance of going to the higher table leaving a 59-mod "safe" result.
    Perils of the warp (there's no +mod on this roll, straight d100): 1% instant death, 30% insanity (8% 1d5, 5% Will-20 vs id5, 9% Will-25 vs 1d10, 8% Will-30 vs 3d10), 31% out (5% Will-20 1d5 rounds, 4% 1d5 rounds, 10% Will-15 1 round, 8% 1d10 rounds, 9% Will-30 1d10 weeks), 25% damage (8% 1d5 wounds, 5% fall 1d10m, 8% worse of spell hits self or 1d5 wounds, 4% 3d10 damage), 5% no casting for 1 hour, 4% no casting 1d5 hours, 5% all spells cause a roll on the Perils of the Warp (not Psychic phenomena) table for 1d5 rounds, 4% lose all unspent Hero Points, 8% all future Peril & Phenomena rolls at +10 (yeah, that's bad because it applies to the Perils table and is a +10% increase to the instant death result), 44% area effects can hit allies, 12% "safe" (blind & deaf or teleporting)

    Now there is a custom warp effects roller included in this PDF. It does require a PDF reader that can handle fillable forms that auto-calculate, but it has bigger and more complex tables. This is nice when you have someone at the table who can't seem to restrain themselves from overcasting and has apparently never heard of this funky "fettered" thing. The default tables get old after about 20 rolls or so. The auto-warp calculator takes a number, that's supposed to be your +40 from a un-Tested sorcerer overcasting a 4th rank spell or whatever, rolls 1d100 and adds them. There are four tables of increasing severity. Each table has a 3% chance of rolling on the next higher table with a -10 (minimum -10) applied to the number that you entered. Really it's any roll of 96+, having a 1d100+40 really puts you at a 45% chance of getting to table #2. That -10 is cumulative, which means getting to the 4th table with the instant death effects using that +40 takes 1d100+40 > 45%, then 1d100+30 > 35%, then 1d100+20 > 25%, a total of 4% with a +40 mod*. That's when the roll (1d100-10 now) gets to the most dangerous table. On table #4 each instant death effect has a 1d10 roll, on a 1-7 you go roll on table #3 instead. On a 8-10 you get a spectacular death and may or may not choose to burn a Hero Point to avoid it. The instant death effects compose about 11% of table #4.

    Its all hideously complicated, but the computer does all the rolling for you. All of it. If there's a random duration, range, damage amount, etc., it rolls that for you. The formatting may not always be perfect, but the numbers are correct. And by percentage chances it really is overall safer than the default tables. Of course table #4 has the full range of major horrible and dangerous things that can happen, major daemons, warp vortexes, the sorcerer just exploding along with all the ammo he was carrying and taking out people standing too close to him (that's actually really really rare it only came up once in a year of weekly session with Mr."didn't read the magic rules rolls warp at +50 and likes causing warp effects", plus he burned a Hero Point and enough of him survived to go full body cyborg).

    Just in case you're interested the "danger level" of these warp tables (percentages are rounded to the nearest whole number):
    Table #1: 72% safe (really just cosmetic SFX), 2% arachnophobes test Feat(1), 7% hinderances (Enemy, Hunted, Grim Servant O' Death) trigger, 2% Fear(1), 2% casting triggers a warp roll for 1 round, 2% 1d10+5-armor damage to the head, 4% 1 insanity point (all have saves), 2% linked to another character for the session to share insanity & fear tests, 4% animals are frightened, 8% affect an area or allies (dangerous results only, many safe results affect an area), 5% roll twice at no bonus and cannot go to the next table, 5% go to the next table at -10 modifier.
    Table #2: 26% "safe", 7% 1 insanity (3/4 have a save), 17% 1 Fatigue (half have a save), 4% Fear(1), 2% Fear(2), 4% bionics take 1d5 wounds (half have a save), 4% 1d10 damage, 2% 2d10 damage, 2% 3d10-aura damage, 2% fall 1d10m, 4% 1d5 insanity, 19% save vs 1d5 insanity, 4% save dex vs on fire, 5% stun 1d5 rounds (2/3 have a save), 4% save or out 1 rounds, 2% out 1d10 rounds, 4% roll on the Trauma table (Book1, p.XX), 2% alignment check, 2% no casting for 1 hour, 2% tech outage, 56% area effects, 5% roll twice at no bonus and cannot go to the next table, 5% go to the next table at -10 modifier.
    Table #3 (83% have saves to avoid the effects): 11% "safe", 48% affect an area, 16% out 1d5 rounds, 5% 1d5 insanity, 3% 1 insanity, 13% out 1d10 rounds, 10% 1d10 wounds, 3% roll on the Trauma table, 3% bionics take 1d5 wounds, 10% 1d10 insanity, 8% 3d10 or 4d10 damage, 5% summon a level 2 or 3 daemonic opponent, 3% roll on the Degeneration table, 8% 2d10 insanity, 3% roll on the Shock table, 3% save dex or on fire, 3% +30 to warp rolls for 2d10 minutes, 3% 1 Fatigue, 8% stunned 1 round, 5% worse of casting the spell on yourself or 2d10+5-aura damage, 3% Fear(3), 3% all casting causes warp rolls for 1d5 rounds, 3% 1d5 wounds, 3% fall 1d10m, 3% no spell casting for 1 hour, 5% roll twice at no bonus and cannot go to the next table, 5% go to the next table at -10 modifier.
    Table #4 (most are multiple effects and about half have saves): 0% "safe" (c'mon, really?), 62% affect an area, 9% 1d5 insanity, 6% 1d2 insanity, 3% 1d10 insanity, 6% 2d10 insanity, 3% 3d10 insanity, 6% auto-kill, 17% 7/10 roll on table #3 & 3/10 auto-kill (equals +5% auto-kill & 12% table #3), 20% 2d10 or 3d10 damage, 6% 1d5 wounds, 7% 5d10 damage, 3% 7d10 damage, 3% 1d5 Fatigue, 3% fall 1d10*3 meters, 3% Fear(2), 6% Fear(3), 12% no casting for 1d5 hours, 3% no casting for 1 hour, 3% everyone's warp rolls are at +20 for the rest of the scene, 3% all casting causes warp rolls, 3% all future warp rolls are at +10, 3% out for 1d5 rounds, 3% out for 1d10 weeks, 6% all save (TN 15) vs daemonic possession, 1% sorcerer is possessed by a daemon, 6% warp vortex wanders the area destroying stuff, 6% summon a greater daemon, 4% save dex or on fire, 3% summon a greater more greater daemon, 1% sorcerer's ammo cooks off, 3% everyone loses unspent Hero Points, 1% sorcerer gouges out his own eyes and gains 100 insanity, 3% roll twice on table #4 ignoring further 'roll twice' results.


    A simple method of achieving safety is an atlantean exalt with a wraithbone bionic heart using their rank 2 power stat ability to add +3 to a magic school for a Focus Power test. That gives them three more rolled dice to drop, and being an atlantean they could already roll a warp effect twice and choose which result they wanted. Combined with the wraithbone bionic heart they'll roll any warp effects four times and get to choose one.

    Also a Chosen of Tzeench is quite safe as they, personally, don't suffer from the warp effects. Sure, you can still tech scorn (Book 1, p.152) the helicopter you're riding in. But being an exalt in a helicopter in this game is just asking to get blown out of the sky anyways. Besides, you should have remembered to pack a parachute.

    * The chances of tables by modifier is:
    +0: t1: 95%, t2: 05%, t3: 0%, t4: 0%
    +10: t1: 85%, t2: 14.2%, t3: 00.8%, t4: 0%
    +20: t1: 75%, t2: 21.3%, t3: 03.6%, t4: 00.2%
    +30: t1: 65%, t2: 26.2%, t3: 07.4%, t4: 01.3%
    +40: t1: 55%, t2: 29.2%, t3: 11.8%, t4: 03.4%
    +50: t1: 45%, t2: 30.3%, t3: 16.1%, t4: 08.7%
    +60: t1: 35%, t2: 29.3%, t3: 19.7%, t4: 16.1%
    "And this, too, shall pass away."

    DtD40k7e rewrite complete.

  2. - Top - End - #212
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    Default Re: [Let's Read] Dungeons the Dragoning 40,000 7th ed. v1.6

    Just tried to access the draft but it mentioned that the file was in the trash so I can't take a look at it unfortunately. Are you taking in example PCs?
    My posting may be slowed due to new job.

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    Default Re: [Let's Read] Dungeons the Dragoning 40,000 7th ed. v1.6

    Oh, sorry. There's been a series of more notes added and I found & fixed an error in the vehicle builder. I'll see about upping book 1 and a sample page of book 2 tonight.

    I accept all suggestions, most will get into the book. Especially because the sample characters will be an appendix.

    EDIT: OK new link
    Book 1
    The vehicle builder hasn't been updated in this copy yet, it won't tell you the length, a couple ultra auto-cannon damages are off, I ditched the turret concept as is stands in the builder for something simpler in the book, and there's an error in the kph calculations when using XL engines. The spaceship builder has a couple upcoming enhancements too, but nothing's wrong with it.

    Book 2 sample vehicle page 1

    Sample vehicle page 2

    EDIT EDIT: And I just spotted an error in the warp crap explanation up above. Will fix before it goes in.
    Last edited by Telok; 2021-06-05 at 12:37 AM.
    "And this, too, shall pass away."

    DtD40k7e rewrite complete.

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    Default Re: [Let's Read] Dungeons the Dragoning 40,000 7th ed. v1.6

    Update. Book 2 first pass editing through p.133, only ~45 pages to go. A little bit more typing on appendices, got an extremely quick & dirty 1-page vehicle rules to check out soon. Working on space combat advice & optional rules.

    Edit: been estimate testing, think all vehicle weapons are getting another +5 damage and the cqc are getting +5 more dmg & pen on top of that. Sample combat vehicles having a hard time hurting each other.
    Last edited by Telok; 2021-06-08 at 02:02 PM.

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    Default Re: [Let's Read] Dungeons the Dragoning 40,000 7th ed. v1.6

    Changed dragon blooded exalt more. Tell aura became: 2-3 = penalty enemy melee attack & parry, 4-5 = fear 1, 6+ = fear @ power stat. Need to explicit that melee malus stacks with fear.

    Double air defense bonus, double fire damage bonus, earth change from size bonus to resilence & require floor instead of dirt/stone, water &wood swapped claw effects.

    DB adamic asset changing. Need make explicit & highlight that replaces quickening. All will get claw pen = power stat. Metal keeps resilience, regain 1 resource on 3 die stunt, claws get razor sharp (page ref). Void stay same & but claws gain proven (page ref) at 1/2 level, round up. Heart make explicit can spend multiple breath for social dice, claws gain power field and can parry weapons. Add warp quickening, claws have orgone (page ref), gain 1 dot evocation, evoke always in class, +0k1 evoke casting, at power stat 5 replace max dragoning with warp vortex spell, reroll instant death perils of the warp effects.

    Edit: also fooled with classes a bit. Mostly the ship officer classes. All L3 ship officers have Lend Expertise & the command-politic-presuade skills on class. Captain (L3) requires Lend Expertise or command of a ship, and it has Lend Expertise as a feat. So get in through a L3 officer and it's a 3 feat class. Captain & commodore exit bonuses changed to +1 backing & +1 holdings (spelljammer).

    Found an unused feat. No classes or anything had the Dicipline feat. Added it to some classes as a replacement or an OR option. Cleaned up the feat list table a little.
    Last edited by Telok; 2021-06-09 at 02:48 PM.

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    Default Re: [Let's Read] Dungeons the Dragoning 40,000 7th ed. v1.6

    Oh, that's something. One of the example characters I was gonna contribute is a Dragon Blood.(Specifically Dragonborn for the double dragon fun.) Actually that's a question. Are there any special interactions with the breath weapon from Dragonborn and the one from 3 Power Dragon Blooded? What about the claws you get from Dragon Blooded and potentially a set from Tiefling?
    My posting may be slowed due to new job.

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    Default Re: [Let's Read] Dungeons the Dragoning 40,000 7th ed. v1.6

    Good question. I've always leaned towards them being separate-ish. The d-born breath is 1/scene, cranking up to 2 @ L3 and 3 @ L5. The d-blood breath is 1/2 resource.

    Also, changed db resource. May have been back a long ways so it bears mentioning. Resource is level+ power+ constitution. Recharge is a good night's rest or a big big meal with lots of (2+ kg) meat.

    I'll upload the changed book 2 exalt pages late tonight. Will also do a couple pages from the space section, would like to know if they make sense to people who aren't me. Probably won't get to change the d-blood asset page until the weekend, then I may merge warp & void if space requires it.

    Edit: found a way to start a character with 2 stats at 6. Not a problem. Also has 4-5 stats at 1 plus other issues.
    Last edited by Telok; 2021-06-09 at 05:41 PM.

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    Default Re: [Let's Read] Dungeons the Dragoning 40,000 7th ed. v1.6

    book 2 first draft

    Edit: OK, dealt with family. File size is 26 mb, index not done, a couple "p.xx" placeholders, haven't done appendices yet. Still in easy-to-change format, haven't done any file optimization yet.

    Have a "ultimate bigness chart" that has how to calculate size & length to and past 100. Also figured builds that technically can inflict hull damage on starships with personal scale weapons (mp lascannon, heavy bolter, grimscythe, probably power fist). Need to add that the "armor" of the ships is more like cover and not bypassed by magic... which means that it might not be possible to damage a starship hull with magic.

    Edit edit: Already found 40 things to fix in first 85 pages.
    Last edited by Telok; 2021-06-14 at 10:06 PM.

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    Default Re: [Let's Read] Dungeons the Dragoning 40,000 7th ed. v1.6

    Latest book 1, this should be the last version.
    https://drive.google.com/file/d/1M30...w?usp=drivesdk

    Last version of the vehicle builder page
    https://drive.google.com/file/d/1M8-...w?usp=drivesdk

    I'm into converting the appendices from text files into book pages. After that it's updating the index, searching for any missing page references, attaching the die roller pages, bookmarking, hyperlinking.

    Question: I have a spaceship deck plan, took a WWII battleship plan and modified it. Include?
    "And this, too, shall pass away."

    DtD40k7e rewrite complete.

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    Default Re: [Let's Read] Dungeons the Dragoning 40,000 7th ed. v1.6

    Is there any reason not to include it? Because the Revised Edition is your creation. Adding more ships is absolutely a good thing imho.
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    Default Re: [Let's Read] Dungeons the Dragoning 40,000 7th ed. v1.6

    Quote Originally Posted by lightningcat View Post
    Is there any reason not to include it? Because the Revised Edition is your creation. Adding more ships is absolutely a good thing imho.
    Well, I'd need to convert it from a spreadsheet image insert into something more widely useable. Its in a spreadsheet because that has good multipage printing options. Maybe I'll attach it as a free image, like the vehicle a starship builders are attached.

    Up to page 191 of the book. Did magic & tracking, still in vehicle appendix. Need to find a fun Car Wars pic or motivator having to do with ammo for the current page. Next will be the ultra-bigness chart and shooting spaceships with vehicle weapons, then zero-g combat, then the spaceship appendix. Then recompile the book, search for common typos & missing page references, confirm page numbers, update the index page, etc., etc.
    "And this, too, shall pass away."

    DtD40k7e rewrite complete.

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    Default Re: [Let's Read] Dungeons the Dragoning 40,000 7th ed. v1.6

    I read through the first couple pages of this thread today, was very entertained, and then decided to sneak a peek at the latest pages. Immensely excited to see that you’ve been compiling your suggested changes and house-rules into a revised version of the game. Thank you for your hard work, Telok.

    Edit: What do the special symbols next to the text mean (i.e. the red exclamation points, the green checks, the blue question marks, and the yellow hazard signs)?
    Last edited by Blueiji; 2021-06-28 at 11:53 PM.
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    Default Re: [Let's Read] Dungeons the Dragoning 40,000 7th ed. v1.6

    Quote Originally Posted by Blueiji View Post
    I read through the first couple pages of this thread today, was very entertained, and then decided to sneak a peek at the latest pages. Immensely excited to see that you’ve been compiling your suggested changes and house-rules into a revised version of the game. Thank you for your hard work, Telok.

    Edit: What do the special symbols next to the text mean (i.e. the red exclamation points, the green checks, the blue question marks, and the yellow hazard signs)?
    Comments, annotations. Reading the pdf with software with more options gives you more stuff. My base phone reader doesn't do links, the lightweight reader on my comp doesn't do annotations or forms, okular and adobe readers do those and the attached web page files.
    "And this, too, shall pass away."

    DtD40k7e rewrite complete.

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    Default Re: [Let's Read] Dungeons the Dragoning 40,000 7th ed. v1.6

    Update time.

    After three weeks of "why does the rest of the family live in a place where people die when the air conditioning breaks?" I'm back to a less insane geographic location and my computer. Managed to do a couple more pages, found more minor edits needed, wrote a but on the umbra, cleaned up the example characters, and got a Dr McNinja reference in. Plus we're doing a Godzilla movie night while we all wear matching dinosaur print underoos.

    Umbra thing, critique?

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    Dat Umbra

    There's no information on how to deal with the Umbra. It's just missing from the books. If you're unfamiliar with the games that the Umbra and Warp come from this can be really confusing. Even if you are familiar with those games the mash-up of the two concepts can be pretty iffy. Presented here is what we use in our game, feel free to ignore it.

    The Umbra is sort of the space between the material world and the Warp. People (and things) get in and our of it through various means, powerful werewolves can step through a mirror, wraiths can just blip over, ghosts and daemons can sometimes slide through, some sorcerers have spells or rituals that may let them open a portal. The barrier or 'Veil' between the Umbra and material worlds can be 'thinner' or 'thicker', making passage back an forth easier or harder. This 'thickness' matches how close the warp is to the material world and how easy it is to use magic. This is the usual 'where Modrons are active it's harder to...' sorts of stuff.

    People experience the Umbra differently. To some it's like an slightly out of focus photographic negative of the world, yet creatures and things that exist in the Umbra look normal. Others refer to it as washed out and gray or sepia toned. Others liken it to the material world being behind a thick fog where it takes active effort to perceive it, yet the things actually in the Umbra are clear and colorful. Certain people perceive it as a dim and shadowy place only partly reminiscent of the material world, where the native horrors lurk in the darkness. People in the Umbra together may not agree on the exact visual effects, but they do agree on things that are there.

    While the topography of the Umbra roughly matches that of the material world, anything that isn't effectively permanently in place doesn't really exist except as a sort of almost-translucent/transparent version of itself. This means that the ground, large plants (mostly trees), and permanent buildings are still pretty sturdy. But things like people, doors, shrubs, and water isn't solid and may not even be visible at all. Pro-tip: Don't pop out of the Umbra at the bottom of the ocean unless you're prepared for it. Places of great natural forces tend to be more present and real in the Umbra. Volcanoes, vortexes, and waterfalls often seem nearly normal except for some larger than normal elementals hanging around.

    Magic is visible to normal vision as neon glowing geometric forms, flashing twisting ribbons, and strings or clouds of sparkles. Generally any of the various special effects that you see in movies to tell you that magic is happening. It's also tangible and magical wards created in the material world can function as doors and walls. You can check Appendix D on page 374 of Book 1 for some optional rules about wards. If someone tries to mess with a spell or ward in the Umbra it has a barrier rating equal to it's Focus Power test and they just need to damage it enough to break it down below the point where the spell would have been successfully cast. Of course it can't be quite that simple, no. Pretty much any ranged attack or weapon will just pass through the spell or ward without doing anything. You need to go up and rip it apart with your bare hands, an artifact melee weapon, or another spell. You'll also want to watch out for when it destructively fails. Once the spell or ward is reduced past where it would have been successfully cast it sort of magically explodes. The radius is 1/5th the original Focus Power test in meters and it does magic damage equal to whatever Focus Power result it would have after you broke it. That's magic damage too, which means that you need Aura because Armor won't help. In the material world there will generally be a popping fizzing sound and a sudden glow that fades away when it happens, in addition to the normal stuff like your magic flying house crashing to the ground. Example: Someone cast a TN 15 Invisible Servant spell with a Focus Power result of 17 that you, in the Umbra, want to wreck. Walk up, punch it for more than 17 damage, it's Focus Power result is now at 16. Do it twice more and the Focus Power result drops to 14, causing the spell to fail. In the material worlds the Invisible Servant pops and drops whatever it was holding. In the Umbra there's a 17/5 = 3.4 = 3m magic blast that does 14 damage.

    The Umbra also has an additional dimension, leading deeper towards the Warp. It's generally described as any of: glowing paths, extra solid clumps of shadow, creepy stationary patches of fog, holes in reality, and several other phenomena. Moving in this direction is harder than just your normal walking around. You'll make several (say 1d5+5) Level or Power stat checks (or perhaps whatever checks were called for by the means used to enter the Umbra in the first place) to keep moving, with each check taking you further away from the material world. The TNs are usually 10 plus the 2 for each step away from the material world. As you make the checks the material worlds will fade out (generally it's completely gone after the third check), to be replaced be a more alien landscape that shifts and changes every check and scene. The closer you get to the Warp the faster and more severe the shifts are. At two checks away from the Warp the scenery is affected by a Psychic Phenomena roll every few rounds (just the harmless visual effects mostly) that affects the entire scene. A one check away from the Warp make a Perils of the Warp check (if you use the included Warp roller put it up to +25, roll twice, and pick the weirder one) every 1d5 rounds and apply it to everything in the area. The next check will put you in the Warp proper. That's generally accepted to be a bad thing for most people. Getting back out to the material world requires the same checks to move in the other direction.

    If you don't want to go all the way 'down' to the Warp there are other places you can sometimes get to. In theory the Webways (Book 1, p.308) can be accessed through the Umbra and thus the city of Commoragh. There's rumored to be a door to Sigil (Book 1, p.279) somewhere. Several places in the Abyss (Book 1, p.284) are absolutely reachable from the Umbra, particularly the realms of the Ruinous Powers. In theory that also means that some places in Celestia (Book 1, 320) could possibly be reachable. There are some "realms" where powerful groups or entities have shaped a bit of the Umbra to fit them, these are a bit easier to reach if you know about them. You can assume that it's a TN 20 Forbidden Lore test (and probably another few 'wander around' tests) to find places like the Cocaine Wizard Guild enclave, a path to the Abyss, a dragon realm that you've been invited to, or a werewolf cairn. The Webways and other places are all at least TN 25 or 30. Raises on the Forbidden Lore test should reduce the travel time or difficulty and simple failure just makes you a bit lost and adds +1d5 to the TN. Failing the test with checks indicates ending up at the wrong place before you realize it, finding a Warp storm, or encountering something that's hungry (or just in a really bad mood). If you have something that is connected to the place you get a free raise on all the tests to get there.

    Building or shaping your own place in the Umbra involves getting into the middle area and doing lots of difficult rituals, often for a long time. People who participate in a ritual to form or maintain and Umbral realm get a free raise on tests to find that place again. Doing a few minimal rituals (they're still those hard TNs of 35 or so) and then bringing in your own building materials is doable, but it tends to attract wandering creatures for some reason. Electronics and small-scale simple chemical reactions work just fine, lasguns and revolvers and flamers are all happy things. However stuff like internal combustion engines, rocket thrusters, anti-grav, large motors, and nuclear power plants aren't happy customers in the Umbra. Only the smaller and simpler vehicles or machines can be relied on, except Syrnth magi-tech junk of course. Interestingly any vehicle with a Super Solenoid Engine (p.106) works just fine though, as long as the SSE is turned on.

    Umbral critters (Book 1, Antagonists, p.335) include spirits, elementals, ghosts, daemons, wraiths, powerful spellcasters and werewolves, and the occasional dragon or aboleth. Plus daemons, of course. Those suckers keep trying to muscle through from the Warp and some of them inevitably succeed. There are no Modrons in the Umbra, their mere existence is antithetical to it. Places where Modrons are active look more monochrome, geometric, and are harder to move around in. The severity of the effect increases as more Modrons are present until all that exists is blank gray emptiness where all movement is impossible. Generic creatures (Book 1, p.345) native to the Umbra tend to be rather nasty, having DarkSight and one of or more of: Constitution + Willpower additional Armor and Aura, attacks that are toxic and tearing, acting like they have spells [TODO 2-20 table with book/page references] (Blink, Jaunt, Blur, Invisibility, Unluck, Stun, Awe, Energy Aura, Silence, Mirror Image, Draining Touch, Web, Shock & Awe, Confusion, Horrid Wilting, Avasculate, Blood Wind, Primal Power) using Level + Wisdom for the faux casting, Amorphous (Book 1, p.336, creature traits), Phasing, Regeneration, or Stuff of Nightmares. They're also completely immune to toxins and drugs of the material world except for Null and Spook (p.169-170). Elementals and spirits often come in clumps of 2-20 and may be larger and stronger than normal. The elementals may even be spontaneously generating in an area. Daemons are generally encountered one or two steps from the Warp, with only the rare greater daemon appearing further out. Here's a possible encounter table we pulled out of our ass.[TODO random encounter table]

    ------------------------------------
    Umbral animalistic creatures

    1 Amorphous
    2 Regeneration = Constitution
    3 Bonus AP & Aura = Con+Will
    4 Attacks are Toxic & Tearing
    5 Uses spell like abilities
    6 Stuff of Nightmares
    7 Phasing
    8 roll 1d5 twice, rerolling doubles
    9 roll 1d5 three times
    10 roll twice, rerolling results of 8+ and rerolling doubles

    Spell Like Abilities: Use Level+Wisdom for the Focus Power test or the listed roll. Ignore potential Perils of the Warp and the creatures are unable to push the casting rolls.

    2 Avasculate (6k5)
    3 Horrid Wilting (5k5)
    4 Mirror Image (5k5)
    5 Jaunt (5k5)
    6 Silence (TN 20)
    7 Draining Touch (TN 20)
    8 Invisibility (TN 5)
    9 Confusion (TN 20)
    10 Blood Wind (TN 15)
    11 Blur (TN 15)
    12 Web (TN 15)
    13 Shock & Awe (TN 15)
    14 Blink (TN 20)
    15 Stun (TN 20)
    16 Energy Aura (5k5)
    17 Primal power (5k5)
    18 Awe (5k5)
    19 Lightning Ring (5k5)
    20 Unluck (6k5)

    Random WTF Umbral Encounter

    2 aboleth-mage with mind flayers
    3 level 5 werewolf with followers
    4 lich
    5 greater daemon if near the warp, otherwise level 5 mage
    6 aboleth-mage (add one of
    7 pack of lesser daemons if near the warp, otherwise level 4 wraith
    8 1d5 elementals
    9 animalistic creature, 2 modifications
    10 elemental
    11 animalistic creature, 1 modification
    12 lesser daemon if adjacent to the warp, otherwise level 2 wraith
    13 ghost
    14 pack of 1 mod animalistic creatures
    15 big elemental
    16 pack of 2 mod animalistic creatures
    17 young dragon-mage
    18 greater daemon
    19 level 5 werewolf champion
    20 dragon with followers


    Edit: added Monty Python & Black Adder references. Added command skill & point blank gun kata to HWG class.

    Edit edit: Sweet. Found function in Adobe Pro to replace only the text & images on a page, leaving links & comment intact. Now I have like 15-20 pages in book 1 to do fixes on.
    Last edited by Telok; 2021-07-28 at 11:53 AM.

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    Default Re: [Let's Read] Dungeons the Dragoning 40,000 7th ed. v1.6

    Down to the last 4 pages. One of character stubs, three of the umbra stuff. Also, I need a Muppet pic to use in the character stub page. This is what happens you leave me alone like this.
    "And this, too, shall pass away."

    DtD40k7e rewrite complete.

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    Default Re: [Let's Read] Dungeons the Dragoning 40,000 7th ed. v1.6

    Well, boo!

    (Here's the attention you implicitly wanted!)
    Last edited by Endarire; 2021-08-01 at 07:33 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by GPuzzle View Post
    And I do agree that the right answer to the magic/mundane problem is to make everyone badass.
    Quote Originally Posted by Flickerdart View Post
    If you're of a philosophical bent, the powergamer is a great example of Heidegger's modern technological man, who treats a game's mechanics as a standing reserve of undifferentiated resources that are to be used for his goals.
    My Complete Tome of Battle Maneuver/Stance/Class Overhaul

    Arseplomancy = Fanatic Tarrasque!

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    Default Re: [Let's Read] Dungeons the Dragoning 40,000 7th ed. v1.6

    Quote Originally Posted by Endarire View Post
    Well, boo!

    (Here's the attention you implicitly wanted!)
    Heh. Sometimes I just have to make a noise to see if anyone is still listening.

    DRAFT OF BOOK 2

    https://drive.google.com/file/d/10TR...ew?usp=sharing

    No bookmarks, links, comments, optimization, etc., yet.

    And just for making sure the current version of book 1

    https://drive.google.com/file/d/1M30...ew?usp=sharing

    Of course now that I've found how to replace just the text and images while leaving the links and comments I have to update a bunch of pages in book 1.... Looks like about 41 pages of fixing so far.

    And then... Still not yet done since I'll need to make/remake/update the quick reference sheets before attaching those to the smaller PDF.
    "And this, too, shall pass away."

    DtD40k7e rewrite complete.

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    Default Re: [Let's Read] Dungeons the Dragoning 40,000 7th ed. v1.6

    Looks pretty much the same but with more advice at the end as usual to me. probably better with the advice than without

    I've been thinking to change my next attempt at tiefling/vampire to be a bard class track to emulate the vampire's ability to dominate people with magic. either that or a monk to make sure the Brawl is a focus for biting and draining people.

    another character concept I've had for this game is Tau/promethean/operator, just snipe things from range and such.

    a more meme-y idea I've had one that I also have for Black Crusade is for khornate berserker who says nothing but "Blood For the Blood God!" like Groot. the DtD version would be an Ork and a Chosen of Khorne and probably a berserker with at least one chain axe, though I'd prefer to be able to dual-wield chain axes for this character concept. the joke would be that they say nothing but that, but that people can understand what they mean by it or have a khornate translator from their background who follows them to speak with others.

    things like that unfortunately the two attempts at a DtD game I've been in didn't last long so I'm not real hopeful about a third working.
    I'm also on discord as "raziere". Hate is a chain, free yourself.



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    Default Re: [Let's Read] Dungeons the Dragoning 40,000 7th ed. v1.6

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Raziere View Post
    idea I've had one that I also have for Black Crusade is for khornate berserker who says nothing but "Blood For the Blood God!" like Groot.
    Is their "We are Groot" moment "Skulls for the Skull Thrown"?

    Yeah, I'm still checking in on the thread out of curiosity, but I don't intend to ever use this system. Actually, to Telok, any lessons from this system that you think could be taken to other systems? One seems to be "don't worry about it, just have fun" or something like that.

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    Default Re: [Let's Read] Dungeons the Dragoning 40,000 7th ed. v1.6

    Raz: Swordsman, first level of fighter track, and the Tactical Officer class both offer TWF. My preference would be to take Academy, complete Feral with WP:Basic, dip through TacOff for TWF & Extra study, then either go Chief Security officer for AP:Any or back to the barbarian track. I changed the barbarian track exit bonus to melee & primitive, making it apply to compound bows too and giving high Str characters a good ranged option.

    The changes are mostly subtle except a couple exalts got near full rewrites (werewolf, dragon blooded), many classes changed, maybe 2/5 of the spells, lots in the sword schools, and gun katas got a full redo. Vehicles & spaceships got weapon & defense numbers rebalances, plus moving some stuff around. A big goal was that there isn't an obviously best way to do something and nobody was locked into or out of something. Like I had a spreadsheet of skills & classes I used to give every class noncombat stuff and try to get every skill into at least 4 classes.

    Cul: Applicable to other games... book 1 a, e, d, f, i. Book 2 maybe the char-op advice bits and I'm adding an assumptions & communication appenid based on some of the current threads in the main forum.

    Book 1... A: Perception rules. Not the numbers, but the general grist of it. Also, I did that in two weeks of spare time with a family, full job, & small child around. If you make a game and want perception stuff... get a 15 hour/week minimum wage intern from the local uni, someone who has taken a stats class. Show them existing perception systems, explain the problems, point them at the RL research, and give them a month.

    E: Chases. I cribbed & took from the vehicle chases and a couple other sources. It tries to give players control over the chase with the open ended actions and choose-your-own-TN. Tries to put a time limit on it with the fatigue thing. Hopefully the only things to track for the dm are distances. I solo play tested a couple times to check and under my assumptions & style all the options worked.

    D: mind control & illusion magic. They need to work, need to be valid choices or not exist. Theres no problems to solve with a great dm & fair-play players. Not everyone can do that 100% of the time. The mind control leverages this system (resolve, hero points, degrees of failure) to mechanize how far you can twist meanings to prevent ******* stuff. It goes both ways, for npcs & pcs, and tries to allow both twisting meaning & "the spell works as intended". The illusion stuff is just advice to try to not screw people over for wanting to try classic stuff that works in movies & books. Trying to avoid the crap that regularly appears about illusions in the d&d forums.

    F: Enemies. Its about trying to judge a party combat & threat handling ability empirically instead of theoretically like WotC does. Theory based like cr & xp budgets succeed or fail based on how constrained the characters are, because they have to predict pc combat abilities. D&d 4e and pazio starfinder cr/budget stuff works because character ability is very well defined with strong limits. Not just by character building, but by system allowed actions. This game doesn't do that sort of limiting, stunting alone would break it and social combat is probably near insane to try threat mapping. So can't use any real 'cr' type system.

    I: Dice. A probability section for those without good math intuition or skills. Also tries to set some baseline expectations on what to roll for & how good a "skilled" character is. Trying for better than "roll if you dont know & guess a dc". Also trying to give more options than one roll, group roll, x successes.

    For the char-op stuff I'm trying to manage expectations, illustrate trade-offs, and demonstrate common pitfalls. Trying to show that dumping stats can endanger you, casting can be powerful & safe if you choose, its OK to start out strong, its OK to not be strong in combat because that can improve that fast, you can be social or mental competent & skilled while still being combat capable. Show that totally dumping defense for armor isn't good. Show that a generally competent character (4k3 in everything) is a good character.
    "And this, too, shall pass away."

    DtD40k7e rewrite complete.

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    Default Re: [Let's Read] Dungeons the Dragoning 40,000 7th ed. v1.6

    Quote Originally Posted by Telok View Post
    I: Dice. A probability section for those without good math intuition or skills. Also tries to set some baseline expectations on what to roll for & how good a "skilled" character is. Trying for better than "roll if you dont know & guess a dc". Also trying to give more options than one roll, group roll, x successes.

    For the char-op stuff I'm trying to manage expectations, illustrate trade-offs, and demonstrate common pitfalls. Trying to show that dumping stats can endanger you, casting can be powerful & safe if you choose, its OK to start out strong, its OK to not be strong in combat because that can improve that fast, you can be social or mental competent & skilled while still being combat capable. Show that totally dumping defense for armor isn't good. Show that a generally competent character (4k3 in everything) is a good character.
    I think these in particular are significant because the book doesn't have guidance on how you can how effective you are and what are good break points to reach for a beginning character depending on the level of competency they want to reach for a particular aspect.
    My posting may be slowed due to new job.

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    Default Re: [Let's Read] Dungeons the Dragoning 40,000 7th ed. v1.6

    okay I've got the actual pdfs and looking at your comments, one specific one stands out with Shadow's Hand specifically mosquito's Bite, you said that its supposed to make someone keel over later and whatever happens when someone uses with a Tiger Claw and chainsword is up to the ST.

    speaking as an anime fan, and an Iaijutsu fan: combine with Mastery (Sheathed Blade), flash step so that your suddenly past the enemy, sheathe the chainsword. declare that "you are already dead".

    Watch as the person suddenly falls apart in half one minute later. as I like to say:
    "If your foe doesn't fall apart into two pieces a week after you cut them, you have not mastered fantasy Hyper-Iaijutsu".
    I'm also on discord as "raziere". Hate is a chain, free yourself.



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    Default Re: [Let's Read] Dungeons the Dragoning 40,000 7th ed. v1.6

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Raziere View Post
    Watch as the person suddenly falls apart in half one minute later. as I like to say:
    "If your foe doesn't fall apart into two pieces a week after you cut them, you have not mastered fantasy Hyper-Iaijutsu".
    I'll put that in the comment.

    Also, a bit of hilarity: "promethian druids are op" (not really).

    It's undefined (will put a ? comment on it in the comment phase) how the wounds taken from Shield Other transfer. I lean towards "same as the shielded person would get", so 6 explode wounds to the head transfer exactly like that to the caster.

    Background: followers/allies for repairs & combat recovery
    Druid -> animal companion, take the critter option.
    Heal magic -> Shield other (eventually want death ward, maybe atonement, cure med or heal, divine power)
    All damage the pet takes goes to the promethian. Once out of hp it takes 5 crits to the body or head to KO the druid & stop the spell. Only 5 crits to the gizzards can kill a promethian. Only once the caster is out can you hurt the pet.

    Additional fun, wraithbone promethians can spend resource to heal and arguable shold be able to heal with the cure spells.

    Also works well with werewolves (regen & power stat 2 ability).
    "And this, too, shall pass away."

    DtD40k7e rewrite complete.

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    Default Re: [Let's Read] Dungeons the Dragoning 40,000 7th ed. v1.6

    Ok, worked up a screed on game tone & expectations. Would appreciate a double check.

    Spoiler
    Show
    System and Gameplay Assumptions and Biases

    Late in the process of this revision it has become clear, after certain discussions, that the may be some people-based problems that come up during play. Unfortunately for you we're rules-type people, not people-type people. That's why you're reading a rules revision and we're not out trying to get laid.

    People have assumptions and biases, and so do game systems because they were written by people. When a person's assumptions and biases conflict with those that are written into the game system there can be problems. For example: a game says "everyone can climb" in one place, "roll a climbing test when success is uncertain and there is danger" in another place, and "the TNs are easy=10, normal=15, hard=20". That's fine until you face an overweight SM with a bad back who thinks that climbing a rope ladder is a "hard" task that's fraught with peril because when the SM falls off a ladder they get laid out with debilitating pain for a week. Suddenly the maximum level, athletics, and strength characters in that game find out that climbing a rope ladder has a 40% failure rate and results in 1d5 hours of being stunned. The writer of that system was assuming the characters were action heroes and wanted to say that you should only roll climbing tests during a cliff-face melee, tornadoes, or avalanches. But the writer says "everyone" and "danger", which tells the SM "average people" and means any sort of minor fall because that's all it takes to cripple the SM.

    This being DUNGEONS THE DRAGONING we're being explicit that the characters of this game are on the 'action hero' end of the competency scale. You can take it that normal everyday activities, even when performed by below average people, do not require rolls... Mr. Normal 2-dots with no Drive skill can make their morning drive to work for ten years without any accidents. Even for someone with a severe phobia of spiders it takes a Goliath Bird-Eating Tarantula <<PIC?>> suddenly dropping onto their head or a horse-sized arachnid running towards them at 30 KPH in order to provoke a TN 15 Fear(1) test.

    Just because a character doesn't have 8k4 is something doesn't mean they shouldn't try. The common TNs are in the 10 to 20 range, anything over 20 is something that less than one in ten people can do. Trying to swing across a chasm on a rope while people are shooting at you? That's TN 10 or 15, and it would be TN 5 but for the people trying to blast you. That 8k4 is for world champion level stuff. Fly a fighter jet through a collapsing skyscraper without taking any damage? That's your TN 35 test that the 8k4 pilot has a 50% chance of making, and its doing 1 HP + 1 HP per check of damage to the jet that _might_ cause a test to avoid crashing. Its important that these "roll once to succeed or fail" type checks are because you only get one try at them. If a character get more than one try the only question is how long it takes to succeed and if they royally screw up before that.

    A second assumption of this game is that the players have input. Real input into the setting and the scenes, not just "my character does X". This is explicitly done through the Backgrounds, group specific feats or assets like Peer or Hunted, and through the stunting system. Obviously the SM has the final say in it, but the Backgrounds and groups that the players want for their characters show interest in those aspects of the setting. This is good and should be encouraged. Only if it completely conflicts with what the SM has established should it be changed or denied. Someone wants to be working for a secret cabal vampire council that's the power behind the throne of all the vampire clans? Unless the SM has a really good reason that secret vampire councils will screw up the adventures then that's fine. Someone wants ComStar to have a bounty out for them but the SM has established that Dune space-guild type group of astropaths has a stranglehold on FTL communication? Maybe ComStar is their accounting firm with an army of bill collection mecha. Try to figure something out before denying anything. Maybe someone will have to change a name or a few details, but try to get to some form of "Yes". Everyone will be happier.

    Another form of input the players have is through the stunting system. Remember Book 1, page 237? It's important. Two and three die stunts allow for scene editing by the players (not contradicting existing stuff, so on and so forth). We're being absolutely explicit about this: If there needs to be a chandelier to swing from or a convenient trash chute to dive into, then its there unless it blatantly contradicts the established scene. Really, people put chandeliers in the dumbest places. We know other games have hammered people out of stunts. Making two extra rolls to get a +1 on an attack and have the same effect a normal attack would have is crap, and there are games suggesting that. When someone stunts you (SM or players) can ask for a second roll if you really feel it's needed to vault over the daemon lord's head or topple the giant statue. But that roll shouldn't be too hard, and it gets the bonus stunting dice too (yes, the stunt dice apply to all the rolls of the stunt). The TN for an extra stunting roll is absolutely not to be over 25, and it will usually be 10 to 20. The other big thing about stunts is that the <strong>stunter gets to narrate the results</strong>. Did you fail massively? You, the stunter, get to choose the form and effects of your failure. It didn't have the effect you wanted, and it shouldn't have any beneficial side-effects, but you aren't doing a prat-fall unless you really want to.

    Speaking of scenery, blow it up. Reinforced concrete, submarine pressure hatches, and 4cm thick iron plates are AP 16 cover. A strong guy with a power fist has a 60% chance of getting at least 6 points of damage past that, and a plasma grenade is almost assured to still give someone on the other side a nasty burn. A running firefight through a collapsing building or sinking ship is practically the definition of a a good action scene. Do it. Blowing up and abusing the scenery is a normal part of combat. Kicking over a brazier of coals onto some curtains isn't a stunt. A brazier is an unarmored inanimate object that isn't nailed down, the bloody thing will fall over if the character bumps it on accident. Picking it up and shoving someone's face in it isn't even a one die stunt. Picking up two braziers and whanging them on someone's head like big burning cymbals so that he's stunned and on fire... That is a stunt. This fits into another good piece of advice: "No empty rooms". An empty hanger is a bad set. Put in some scaffolding to the ceiling for repairs, a pile of toolboxes, a stack of tires, an oil slick, half an airplane, and of course you need some exploding barrels. You want combats where people stand around bopping each other with Nerf swords until one of them falls down? Go play a different game. In this game you bodily pick up your enemies and throw them into wood chippers. Well... maybe only the werewolves do that more than once. The rest of us have rocket launchers and power swords.

    "But there's no rules fo-" Quit your bitching.

    Not everything is covered by the combat actions list on page 242 of Book 1, the SMs have to wing it sometimes. They have to try to stay fair and awesome and keep things fun. That goes for the players too. The official word is that there's an "Other Actions" paragraph on page 249, even though it's a bit short on details. No RPG rule set can truly cover everything, that's part of why we have a SM. Use your best judgement, talk things out, ask what the purpose of something is, give honest answers. We're all here to have fun. If someone wants to do something that sounds stupid, ask why. There's probably a misunderstanding happening somewhere. If conflicts come up check if the players are OK with something working the same way for them that it works for the NPCs.

    Go with that "pick someone up and throw them" thing, we guessed it was something to do as part of a grapple instead of hurting someone and would involve a Strength test. The procedure we came up with is to start a grapple and get to the point where you can hurt the other person, then instead of hurting them you use a Strength check to lift them up. We decided that ended the turn, meaning the victim has a chance to escape. Presuming that the victim fails to escape or win the next grapple, they get thrown the next turn, with another check to determine the distance. The TN of the Strength test was set at Size*5, with anything that counted as artificially increasing Resilience (machinator arrays and power armor) counting as another point of Size, and the distance on a success being the thrower's Strength in meters plus another meter per raise. Accurate throwing was just a regular thrown object Ballistics test with the damage set as the Size of the thrown person (+1 for power armor, etc.) plus the number of raises beyond what was needed to get them to the impact site as rolled dice, and half the rolled dice as kept dice. It turned out that a Strength 7 werewolf is pretty good at chucking halflings out windows.

    Likewise, not everything a character can do is written on the character sheet. There is no "tell a joke" or "pick out nice clothes" entry on the sheet (the Perform skill is more for a whole stand-up comedy routine). You can roll Fellowship or something if you can't think of a joke and you're desperate, but if someone knows a joke you use that. The character sheet won't tell you you can swing on a chandelier, bribe a guard, light a fire with the Energy Ray spell, spike a vampire to the ceiling with a spear, punch an oncoming car so hard it stops, or ride a rocket into space by chaining yourself to the outside. Go. Try it. Play. Have fun.

    These things run both ways. The SM can, and sometimes should, speak up with things like "I have an idea for this NPC and I think it's be cool if you guys talked to it" or "I worked hard on this dungeon and I'd be super happy if the session today could be about exploring it". Just as the players are here to have fun so is the StoryMaster. In the same way the players ask the SM questions like "Can I find a double barrel las cannon for sale?" the SM can ask things like "Who was the person your character hated most in her home town?" and "What was the sorcerer who taught you make like?". If the players are well an truly stuck or the SM is getting frustrated at the random flailing of characters try this:

    Once a session you ask for a Level+Power stat roll (anyone can ask, even the SM, everyone gets one ask a session), with a TN of [2, 10, 20, 30, 40] based on the character's Level. There's no penalty for failing and the person who called for the roll gets to ask one question, plus another per two raises from this list* (answer truthfully):
    "What can I use to _____?"
    "What is the biggest threat?"
    "What is the greatest danger?"
    "Who here is most vulnerable and how?"
    "How can we best end this quickly?"

    *(Shamelessly cribbed from Masks: A new Generation)

    One more thing; those minions. Carving a bloody swath through an army of mooks with a chain-axe and power sword is normal. It's not the only solution, but it's a nice one.


    Replaced a bunch of pages in book 1, up to p.120. Made changes to a bunch more, still more changes to make. Going to be about 60 in total I think. Many are just spelling and table row background fixes.

    Built a webpage version of the weapon builder. Buggy, limited, ugly. Using it to check that all main book weapons are sort of kind of creatable at about the right rarity. Resulted in dropping revolvers to very common & upping shield damage to 0k2.

    Might get to work more on it tonight.
    "And this, too, shall pass away."

    DtD40k7e rewrite complete.

  25. - Top - End - #235
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    Default Re: [Let's Read] Dungeons the Dragoning 40,000 7th ed. v1.6

    https://drive.google.com/file/d/1uXj...ew?usp=sharing

    Current version of book 2.

    TODO: Iterate verify of weapon building against existing weapons again. Replace 40 pages in book 1 & fix/check placement of hyperlinks. Build cheat sheet PDF pages to attach to Book 2 end. See about compression of 2.8 gb jpeg spelljammer blueprint.

    LATER: Hyperlink, bookmarks, & comments into book 2.
    "And this, too, shall pass away."

    DtD40k7e rewrite complete.

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    Default Re: [Let's Read] Dungeons the Dragoning 40,000 7th ed. v1.6

    https://drive.google.com/file/d/1N09...w?usp=drivesdk

    Latest version of book 2. Luckily I noticed a page was missing.

    Three last pages to replace in book 1, then recheck the other 300 pages of links for correct placement.

    UPDATE: Possibly last version of book 2. Willing to replace last page or add two pages just before the last advice, if anyone has something specific they want.

    https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Vmw...ew?usp=sharing
    Last edited by Telok; 2021-08-26 at 06:58 PM.
    "And this, too, shall pass away."

    DtD40k7e rewrite complete.

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    Default Re: [Let's Read] Dungeons the Dragoning 40,000 7th ed. v1.6

    Holy crap! Ive known about this system for years and haven't been able to find ANYONE who was remotely aware of it. When I first found this system, I acted as a DM and fell in love with the system but ive always wanted to be a player.

    Is this just a thread about your additions or is there anything (here or elsewhere) that has groups playing this?
    Last edited by (INSERT NAME); 2021-08-27 at 07:24 AM.

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    Default Re: [Let's Read] Dungeons the Dragoning 40,000 7th ed. v1.6

    Quote Originally Posted by (INSERT NAME) View Post
    Holy crap! Ive known about this system for years and haven't been able to find ANYONE who was remotely aware of it. When I first found this system, I acted as a DM and fell in love with the system but ive always wanted to be a player.

    Is this just a thread about your additions or is there anything (here or elsewhere) that has groups playing this?
    Well the White Wizards Workshop forum has occasional activity. When this whole think is done I'll make an account there and drop it on them.

    I ran it for a year and I plan on running it again. Once the revision is complete (and the plague is less of an issue) I'm going to try to snag some new players and a couple old ones. I plan on running it for another 6months to a year again before trying to convince someone else to run it so that I can play. If you're in commuting range of Anchorage Alaska* we usually run a Saturday evening or Sunday afternoon weekly for about 4-6 hours. That's my big plan, DM it until I can find/train someone to DM it so that I can play.

    In related news I'm recuperating from a minor surgery and have pretty free use of a laptop this weekend without small child interference. I may be able to get some of the supplementary materials for book 2 in order.

    * In Alaska there are some who think the 8 hour drive to/from Fairbanks-Anchorage is an acceptable commute if there's a couch to crash on.
    "And this, too, shall pass away."

    DtD40k7e rewrite complete.

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    Default Re: [Let's Read] Dungeons the Dragoning 40,000 7th ed. v1.6

    Quote Originally Posted by Telok View Post
    Well the White Wizards Workshop forum has occasional activity. When this whole think is done I'll make an account there and drop it on them.

    I ran it for a year and I plan on running it again. Once the revision is complete (and the plague is less of an issue) I'm going to try to snag some new players and a couple old ones. I plan on running it for another 6months to a year again before trying to convince someone else to run it so that I can play. If you're in commuting range of Anchorage Alaska* we usually run a Saturday evening or Sunday afternoon weekly for about 4-6 hours. That's my big plan, DM it until I can find/train someone to DM it so that I can play.

    In related news I'm recuperating from a minor surgery and have pretty free use of a laptop this weekend without small child interference. I may be able to get some of the supplementary materials for book 2 in order.

    * In Alaska there are some who think the 8 hour drive to/from Fairbanks-Anchorage is an acceptable commute if there's a couch to crash on.
    Unfortunately, I do not live in the US so my commute would probably be a bit longer then that. lol
    Hoping there was maybe a dedicated discord group or something. Roll20 has a functioning DtD sheet and have tried looking for groups both on that and the White Wizards Workshop to no avail.
    Guess all I can do is try again.

    thanks for the response though and good luck with trying to get a DM-Padawan :)

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    Default Re: [Let's Read] Dungeons the Dragoning 40,000 7th ed. v1.6

    I'm wondering where do the mechanics of the Sword Schools come from.

    No, I don't mean the Book of Nine Swords. That's where the themes come from.

    But Bo9S does not come with the move customization thing. Where you stack modifications to one of the many basic actions available.

    Are these LawfulNice's original ideas? Are they influenced by Exalted? Are there game systems with similar promises?
    Awesome avatar by Linklele. Thank you!

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