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  1. - Top - End - #91
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    Default Re: OOTS #1198 - The Discussion Thread

    Mind Blank would have blocked divination spells like True Seeing, right? Means they could have gotten a closer look, although X has a pretty good perception check.

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    Default Re: OOTS #1198 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by jokem View Post
    Mind Blank would have blocked divination spells like True Seeing, right? Means they could have gotten a closer look, although X has a pretty good perception check.
    Mind Blank affects mind-affecting effects. True Seeing is not mind-affecting.
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    Your bread looks like a rotary phone.
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    Default Re: OOTS #1198 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by jokem View Post
    Mind Blank would have blocked divination spells like True Seeing, right? Means they could have gotten a closer look, although X has a pretty good perception check.
    It depends on who you are asking. As written, true seeing is a divination spell and since mind blank blocks "information gathering by divination spells or effects" about the target, it would work. However, what is less clear is whether it was intended to work that way, as the text mostly mentions blocking scrying. Since psionic mind blank explicitly only protects against mind-affecting and scrying effects, that may have been the intention for mind blank as well. So it depends on exactly how you interpret how the spell is supposed to work. It's not exactly well-written. Pathfinder explicitly says mind blank blocks see invisibility and thus we can assume true seeing as well, although the spell was also nerfed in regards to its protection against mind-affecting effects so make of that what you will.

    Regardless, we don't know whether Haley or V had mind blank on at the time, nor whether V even prepared it, so it's a bit of a moot point. Roy only mentions that bringing Belkar along would have meant one more fly and one more invisibility so probably not.
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  4. - Top - End - #94
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    Default Re: OOTS #1198 - The Discussion Thread

    Unless V got a pearl of power VIII or a stronger headband of intellect, they probably don’t even have the slots to prepare three mind blanks anyways.
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  5. - Top - End - #95
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    Default Re: OOTS #1198 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNecrocomicon View Post
    My instinct with the latest strip is that the characters are so adamantly insisting that the Gate must be behind one of those doors that, by unspoken dramatic convention, things are not going to turn out that way.

    Remember that in the arc showing what Team Evil were up to midway through the previous book, Redcloak conspicuously remarks that the whole area was built up out of multidimensional stone. In the recollections of the Scribblers taking on the final Rift, it was located at ground level, and as far as we can tell, no mundane physical force can move them (even though they can and do expand without a Gate to hold them shut).

    Seems to me that the Gate is probably sealed deep underground -- EDIT: entombed, maybe? Too appropriate -- surrounded by a thick enough layer of the magically-formed stone to block divination magic, and that none of the doors and passages lead to it at all. That said, I would think there would be some suitably cryptic surface-level marker to denote where the Gate now sits deep underground, and so the only unique thing that dates from the Tomb's construction (that isn't a door or a passageway) is the statue of Kraagor.
    Yeah, this is my theory as well. They went out of their way to include the technical exposition that the whole thing was made of extradimensional stone and being completely entombed is much harder to deal with than it being under the statue. Plus then they have to break it down without releasing the beasties.

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    Default Re: OOTS #1198 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    Like, Voldemort never considered, "aha, I will be immortal! Unless someone kills Nagini. Or an accident happens, and she dies. Or just old age, she's already pretty old and if there were a way to make her immortal if have done it myself already instead of doing this horcrux thing. Huh. Maybe a living creature is a really poor idea for a horcrux."
    I may be wrong, but wasn't the whole point of the horcrux thing that Voldemort could only be killed if *all* of his horcruxes were destroyed? Seems to me that setting up a system where people have seven or eight independent methods of killing you that don't even require you to be present would be even dafter than you're saying his plan was anyway.

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    Default Re: OOTS #1198 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by factotum View Post
    I may be wrong, but wasn't the whole point of the horcrux thing that Voldemort could only be killed if *all* of his horcruxes were destroyed?
    If one of the horcruxes is a wet cardboard box, why even bother making into a horcrux, is my point. Choose something durable, not something that is going to be destroyed regardless.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    Your bread looks like a rotary phone.
    This right here, is some prime quality culinary critique.

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    Default Re: OOTS #1198 - The Discussion Thread

    Volde had multiple durable and well hidden horcruxes. He just needed another (because 7) and chose something that would always be at his side without anybody questioning it

    Edit: Now that the Order said, that the gate won't be under the statue, I'm completely assured that that's the case. Because drama and such things...
    Last edited by Jannoire; 2020-04-06 at 02:43 AM.

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    Default Re: OOTS #1198 - The Discussion Thread

    It's also Worth noting that Voldemort made Nagini into a Horcrux while on the run in Albania, Before he got his body back. Presumably he didn't have any major magical artifacts lying around and perhaps he felt a Horcrux that could move on its own could be useful at that Point. He probably wanted a seventh Horcrux Before starting his rebirth plan anyway.

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    Default Re: OOTS #1198 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Quebbster View Post
    He probably wanted a seventh Horcrux Before starting his rebirth plan anyway.
    I know it's of topic, but this is a pet peeve of mine...
    He never intended to create seven horcruxes. He wanted to make SIX, because he wanted to have his soul split into SEVEN pieces.

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    Default Re: OOTS #1198 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Grey Watcher View Post
    All I know is that in nearly every "livestream a D&D game" I've ever seen, "kill the child" is a solution that gets suggested way, way too readily.
    DM's and adventure writers hiding demons in children is the root cause of the problem.
    Quote Originally Posted by Grey Watcher View Post
    Unlike Durkon, V can't turn those instances of Sending into something more useful (eg Cure Assorted Wounds), and even if they could, that's still one fewer level X spells they have to handle emergencies.
    A fair point.
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    Default Re: OOTS #1198 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Jannoire View Post
    I know it's of topic, but this is a pet peeve of mine...
    He never intended to create seven horcruxes. He wanted to make SIX, because he wanted to have his soul split into SEVEN pieces.
    My Point was that he was still one short, or at least thought he was. I may have lost track of the exact numbers though.

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    Default Re: OOTS #1198 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Quebbster View Post
    My Point was that he was still one short, or at least thought he was. I may have lost track of the exact numbers though.
    He thought he only had six but he had seven soul bits, his soul consisted of him (1), his diary (2), the ring (3), the diadem (4), the locket (5), the cup (6)and unbeknownst to him, Harry (7), but since he didn't know about Harry he added Nagini, making his soul eight pieces but with seven horcruxes. Though iirc it was pretty confusing about how many he wanted, and I believe first time I read it I was under the assumption they needed to destroy seven and then kill him.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schroeswald View Post
    I recognize that Conservation of Detail is Overrated, but I find the event that I am using as evidence for my theory above important enough/given enough focus to qualify for what I call Elan’s Exception, “Who wastes perfectly good foreshadowing like that?”. Also I have never correctly predicted any event in any piece of media so take this theory with a grain of salt (I call this Peelee’s Ye Old Reminder).

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    Default Re: OOTS #1198 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Quebbster View Post
    It's also Worth noting that Voldemort made Nagini into a Horcrux while on the run in Albania, Before he got his body back. Presumably he didn't have any major magical artifacts lying around and perhaps he felt a Horcrux that could move on its own could be useful at that Point. He probably wanted a seventh Horcrux Before starting his rebirth plan anyway.
    Nope, he made Nagini into a Horcrux while squatting on his Dad's estate. Murdered---the groundskeeper, I think it was. Evidence is that he wanted to find and corrupt the Sword, but he didn't know you don't find the Sword, the Sword finds you.

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    Default Re: OOTS #1198 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Rogar Demonblud View Post
    Nope, he made Nagini into a Horcrux while squatting on his Dad's estate. Murdered---the groundskeeper, I think it was. Evidence is that he wanted to find and corrupt the Sword, but he didn't know you don't find the Sword, the Sword finds you.
    The sword did find several of his soul bits though

    In case you want to know which ones, it destroyed the ring, the locket and Nagini, it revealed itself to Harry and it got very close to the diary.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schroeswald View Post
    I recognize that Conservation of Detail is Overrated, but I find the event that I am using as evidence for my theory above important enough/given enough focus to qualify for what I call Elan’s Exception, “Who wastes perfectly good foreshadowing like that?”. Also I have never correctly predicted any event in any piece of media so take this theory with a grain of salt (I call this Peelee’s Ye Old Reminder).

    Quote Originally Posted by Squire Doodad View Post
    "A sufficiently big wedge of cheese is indistinguishable from an aircraft."

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    Default Re: OOTS #1198 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    If one of the horcruxes is a wet cardboard box, why even bother making into a horcrux, is my point. Choose something durable, not something that is going to be destroyed regardless.
    "I'm gonna do a murder, might as well get a bonus out of it, just for kicks." Xykon has done any number of thoroughly Evil things, just because. Of course, Voldemort isn't Xykon, but still.

    Voldie did get some use out of having Nagini relatively intelligent and controllable. Though having looked her up in the Potter wiki, I see that she's got a lot of history I hadn't heard about -- among other things, she used to be a human.

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    Default Re: OOTS #1198 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by bunsen_h View Post
    "I'm gonna do a murder, might as well get a bonus out of it, just for kicks." Xykon has done any number of thoroughly Evil things, just because. Of course, Voldemort isn't Xykon, but still.

    Voldie did get some use out of having Nagini relatively intelligent and controllable. Though having looked her up in the Potter wiki, I see that she's got a lot of history I hadn't heard about -- among other things, she used to be a human.
    I prefer to ignore that little bit of canon, along with most Harry Potter things outside of the seven books.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schroeswald View Post
    I recognize that Conservation of Detail is Overrated, but I find the event that I am using as evidence for my theory above important enough/given enough focus to qualify for what I call Elan’s Exception, “Who wastes perfectly good foreshadowing like that?”. Also I have never correctly predicted any event in any piece of media so take this theory with a grain of salt (I call this Peelee’s Ye Old Reminder).

    Quote Originally Posted by Squire Doodad View Post
    "A sufficiently big wedge of cheese is indistinguishable from an aircraft."

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    Default Re: OOTS #1198 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by bunsen_h View Post
    "I'm gonna do a murder, might as well get a bonus out of it, just for kicks." Xykon has done any number of thoroughly Evil things, just because.
    I'm talking about the intelligence of it, not the evilness. Xykon didn't make a living being who could already die his phylactery, after all.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
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    Your bread looks like a rotary phone.
    This right here, is some prime quality culinary critique.

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    Default Re: OOTS #1198 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    Normally I'd try to think of something witty to say, but you dropped the, "ergleflobble" bomb discreetly in there and now I'm concerned. You can tell me, it's safe!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    I'm talking about the intelligence of it, not the evilness. Xykon didn't make a living being who could already die his phylactery, after all.
    Sure, but Xykon's phylactery is unique, and needs to be carefully protected; its destruction would be disastrous, from his point of view. Using Voldie's model, the more splits, the better. If a damp cardboard box would sit around, ignored, because everyone assumed that he would only choose really significant items, that would be to his benefit. Obviously, he didn't have that level of self-awareness, but it's not a completely stupid premise.
    Last edited by bunsen_h; 2020-04-06 at 02:40 PM.

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    Default OOTS #1198 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by bunsen_h View Post
    Using Voldie's model, the more splits, the better.
    it's a bad sign that this discussion has wandered into the drek that is the HP series.

    It occurs to me that as V and Haley look at the x's on the doors to the caves, they are being taken in by the MiTD's deception as well.
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    Default Re: OOTS #1198 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Lombard View Post
    In panel 1 it is interesting to me how the whole area map looks kind of like a drawing of a gate.

    I tried to figure out something else as follow up to that observation, but that's all I got heh.
    I'll follow that thread for you.

    The gate is huge, as in the size of the entire area. And horizontal.

    We have had several different gate sizes, from small to big:

    Soon's gate in Azure city: Size of a single emerald.
    Lirian's gate in the woods: Medium/Large-sized.
    Girard's gate in the desert: Huge-sized (You can see the Order and Laurin & others standing right next to it. It's larger than them, but not overwhelmingly large.).
    Dorukan's gate in starter dungeon: Colossal sized. (Strip #96 shows the scale nicely, with Redcloak and Xykon right next to the gate). Several stories high at least.

    => Conclusion: Serini's/Kraagor's gate is the size of the entire area, several hundred yards. They just have to get rid of bunch of rock (that blocks divinations) first.

    The problem with this theory is of course that the crayons in #276 clearly show the Lirian's gate. However, it also depicts Kraagor's rift to be about the same size as well. Then again, crayons are not meant to be completely reliable, and also, the relation between gate size and rift size is not completely clear. Maybe Kraagor's normal-sized rift in the crayon drawing would have just required a larger gate?

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    Last edited by Zarhan; 2020-04-06 at 03:28 PM.

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    Default Re: OOTS #1198 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by bunsen_h View Post
    Using Voldie's model, the more splits, the better.
    I thought he wanted 7 Soul chunks because 7 was a number of power in magic/folklore and he thought it would confer mystic benefits.

    Given how at 7 his soul was already fragmenting so much that it was splitting even when he didn't mean for it to, any more splitting would have probably made him soulless. Like in a very literal sense.
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    Default Re: OOTS #1198 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Hopeless View Post
    Just a thought but what if Serini had whatever was dug out of that gorge levitated far above literally above the clouds and those coordinates only make sense once you know it's up there?
    Nope. Can't move a rift at all, unless it's still sealed with a gate and you have your cleric perform a particular and particularly complex ritual with an arcane spellcaster and you happen to be The Dark One. That's why the Azure City Throne was built where it is.
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    Default Re: OOTS #1198 - The Discussion Thread

    Personally, I don’t think it’ll only end with “finding the right door” - a being (or group of beings) is strong enough to get through the door with the strongest monsters, all that stands in their way is time. And while Shojo did say that this Gate was made to represent Kraagor’s brute strength... we don’t even know if he was a Thog-level “no brains all brawn” guy. I mean, he spoke in proper grammar, though it was in bold text - perhaps just a slight Int penalty? And Barbarians *can* do some tactics that aren’t just “smash”... I dunno.
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    Default Re: OOTS #1198 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Zarhan View Post
    I'll follow that thread for you.

    The gate is huge, as in the size of the entire area. And horizontal.

    Dorukan's gate in starter dungeon: Colossal sized. (Strip #96 shows the scale nicely, with Redcloak and Xykon right next to the gate). Several stories high at least.

    => Conclusion: Serini's/Kraagor's gate is the size of the entire area, several hundred yards. They just have to get rid of bunch of rock (that blocks divinations) first.

    The problem with this theory is of course that the crayons in #276 clearly show the Lirian's gate.
    The bigger problem with that theory is that Hinjo says in strip #411 that the breach in the Redmountain Hills (e.g. Dorukan's Rift) was the largest of the five.

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    Default Re: OOTS #1198 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Rogar Demonblud View Post
    Nope, he made Nagini into a Horcrux while squatting on his Dad's estate. Murdered---the groundskeeper, I think it was. Evidence is that he wanted to find and corrupt the Sword, but he didn't know you don't find the Sword, the Sword finds you.
    J.K. Rowling disagress. According to her, Nagini was made a Horcrux when Voldemort killed Bertha Jorkins in Albania.
    I do agree that he probably would have prefered a Gryffindor relic as a Horcrux originally though.

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    Default Re: OOTS #1198 - The Discussion Thread

    I did wonder how much of a gap there can be between "killing someone" and "making use of their murder to create a Horcrux"

    Since, when he talks to Slughorn, he's already killed both Myrtle and his father, and he's asking Slughorn about the whole "multiple horcruxes" thing - implying he hasn't yet made his second Horcrux. That said, it could be a case of wanting to know somewhat after the fact -

    "I've made multiple horcruxes - is anything odd going to happen, like losing my nose or something"

    without coming out and saying so outright.
    Last edited by hamishspence; 2020-04-07 at 02:58 AM.
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    Default Re: OOTS #1198 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by factotum View Post
    The bigger problem with that theory is that Hinjo says in strip #411 that the breach in the Redmountain Hills (e.g. Dorukan's Rift) was the largest of the five.
    Ok, missed that one. So much for that then :)

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    Default Re: OOTS #1198 - The Discussion Thread

    I havent followed the various gate discussions, but has the possibility that (since this gate was out of respect for Kraagor and his strength) that you actually *do* have to clear every single dungeon to reveal the Gate come up?
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    Default Re: OOTS #1198 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Bacon Elemental View Post
    I havent followed the various gate discussions, but has the possibility that (since this gate was out of respect for Kraagor and his strength) that you actually *do* have to clear every single dungeon to reveal the Gate come up?
    Heh. And you have to do it by yourself, unaided. If someone helps you, you have to start over from the beginning.

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    Last edited by bunsen_h; 2020-04-07 at 11:45 AM.

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