Theurge Casting Spells from Other Class's Slots

[Endarire]

Greetings, all!

As mentioned in certain recent threads, I plan to play a Druid6/Wizard1/Arcane Hierophant10/Mystic TheurgeX using early entry. This thread isn't for general build advice, nor do I intend to change this build any time soon! Instead, this thread is to learn what official options exist in official D&D 3.5 books, web articles, and magazine articles that answer this question: For a Druid/Wizard, how can I prepare spells in Wizard spell slots slots that are on both spell lists without obtaining scrolls or spellbooks of them?

For example, resist energy and various animal buffs (cat's grace, etc.) are on each list. Assuming I'm a able to cast level 2+ Druid and Wizard spells, I didn't have resist energy in a Wizard spellbook I could access, and I wanted to prepare and cast resist energy using Wizard spell slots, how could I officially do so?

Thankee!

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Copy one of your cantrips into your spellbook a second time (it takes only one page), then cast Secret Page to turn it into the Druid spell you know, "The text of a spell can be changed to show even another spell." An added benefit of this is that a spell of any level is now only taking up one page in your spellbook.

[Troacctid]

You can't prepare another class's spells in your wizard slots, nor can you use slots from one class to spontaneously cast spells from the other class. I'm not aware of a way to change this on a wizard-druid build; there's dweomerkeeper, but it normally calls for you to be a cleric.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

You can't prepare another class's spells in your wizard slots, nor can you use slots from one class to spontaneously cast spells from the other class. I'm not aware of a way to change this on a wizard-druid build; there's dweomerkeeper, but it normally calls for you to be a cleric.

I think he's asking how he can learn a spell on both class lists as a Wizard spell, by already knowing it as a Druid spell.

[Segev]

Copy one of your cantrips into your spellbook a second time (it takes only one page), then cast Secret Page to turn it into the Druid spell you know, "The text of a spell can be changed to show even another spell." An added benefit of this is that a spell of any level is now only taking up one page in your spellbook.

...huh. I know I've read this before, but I don't think it ever registered with me. Can this actually be used to change the spells you have available to prepare from your spellbook? Is there anything preventing you from making it an arbitrary spell, even one you don't know? Can you actually prepare it?

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

...huh. I know I've read this before, but I don't think it ever registered with me. Can this actually be used to change the spells you have available to prepare from your spellbook? Is there anything preventing you from making it an arbitrary spell, even one you don't know? Can you actually prepare it?

Nope: "A wizard casts arcane spells which are drawn from the sorcerer/wizard spell list."

If it's not on the Wizard class spell list (or another list you've gained access to via Wizard, such as by Arcane Disciple), you can't prepare it in a Wizard spell slot, regardless of whether it's in your spellbook.

[ixrisor]

If the spell is also a wizard spell, the theurge can copy it into their spellbook from cleric spells prepared (replacing and copying spellbooks) then prepare it as a wizard spell.

[Segev]

Nope: "A wizard casts arcane spells which are drawn from the sorcerer/wizard spell list."

If it's not on the Wizard class spell list (or another list you've gained access to via Wizard, such as by Arcane Disciple), you can't prepare it in a Wizard spell slot, regardless of whether it's in your spellbook.

Not what I was asking, though it's a good thing to know.

Let's say I have magic missile in my spellbook. I cast secret page on it to make it look like legend lore, which I don't already have in my spellbook. Can I prepare legend lore, now, despite never having learned it?

If the fact they're different levels is an issue, can I use secret page to take my magic missile spell and make it into sleep, even though I don't know sleep? And then prepare sleep from that page, and perhaps use that to scribe a scroll, which I then copy into my spellbook properly?

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Not what I was asking, though it's a good thing to know.

Let's say I have magic missile in my spellbook. I cast secret page on it to make it look like legend lore, which I don't already have in my spellbook. Can I prepare legend lore, now, despite never having learned it?

If the fact they're different levels is an issue, can I use secret page to take my magic missile spell and make it into sleep, even though I don't know sleep? And then prepare sleep from that page, and perhaps use that to scribe a scroll, which I then copy into my spellbook properly?

If you don't already know Legend Lore or Sleep, you wouldn't be able to turn the page into that spell. If you'd previously read the spell and succeeded in the spellcraft check to learn it, then it would work. If someone else casts that and turns another spell into Legend Lore or Sleep, you would be able to study that and make a spellcraft check to learn it. If you tried to turn one spell into another spell that you don't know, then it would be like trying to write a paragraph in a language you haven't learned, it may look right at a glance, but it wouldn't make any sense and wouldn't be useful.

[Khedrac]

Not what I was asking, though it's a good thing to know.

Let's say I have magic missile in my spellbook. I cast secret page on it to make it look like legend lore, which I don't already have in my spellbook. Can I prepare legend lore, now, despite never having learned it?

If the fact they're different levels is an issue, can I use secret page to take my magic missile spell and make it into sleep, even though I don't know sleep? And then prepare sleep from that page, and perhaps use that to scribe a scroll, which I then copy into my spellbook properly?

I rather think that just because you can use secret page to make it look like a different spell doesn't mean that you can learn that spell unless you already know the wizard version of it. I would be surprised if any DM would actually allow the suggested trick to work, so I thinnk you are right to doubt this. Personally I would rule that to make the text to even look like a spell (to anything more than a cursory glance) the spell must be known in the form to be displayed. Anything else is reading a lot more into the spell's capability that its description says.

People say that 3.5 is a system where the rules have to specifically say that you can do something for you to be able to do it. On these grounds the spell doesn't say that you don't need to know whatever information you disguise the page as, therefore you do need to know it.

[DwarvenWarCorgi]

Use Geomancer instead of Mystic Theurge

[ShurikVch]

How about the Alternative Source Spell feat (Dragon #325)?

[Endarire]

Alternative Source Spell is the closest thing I've seen, plausibly allowing me to cast divine spells from an arcane spell slot by converting it there, but it's GM-dependent and the example doesn't expressly support this opinion.