New OOTS products from CafePress
New OOTS t-shirts, ornaments, mugs, bags, and more
Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 30 of 62
  1. - Top - End - #1
    Titan in the Playground
    Join Date
    Feb 2011

    Default The Mind of A Six-Year-Old

    I could use some input from Playgrounders with kids, especially six-year-olds.

    I’m dealing with a manuscript which has a six-year-old confusing a statue with a real person, and trying to use band-aids to heal the statue.

    My question is, would this be reasonable for a six-year-old? I could easily see this for a two- or three-year-old, but I’d think that by the age of six a child can tell the difference between a statue and a real person. I know I could, but I was a weird kid.

    So, what say you, Playground parents? Would a six-year-old honestly think that band-aids could heal a stone statue?

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    Rockphed's Avatar

    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Watching the world go by
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: The Mind of A Six-Year-Old

    Quote Originally Posted by Palanan View Post
    I could use some input from Playgrounders with kids, especially six-year-olds.

    I’m dealing with a manuscript which has a six-year-old confusing a statue with a real person, and trying to use band-aids to heal the statue.

    My question is, would this be reasonable for a six-year-old? I could easily see this for a two- or three-year-old, but I’d think that by the age of six a child can tell the difference between a statue and a real person. I know I could, but I was a weird kid.

    So, what say you, Playground parents? Would a six-year-old honestly think that band-aids could heal a stone statue?
    Based on my children? No, but she might put bandaids on the statue and say she was healing it. And not just one or 2 bandaids, the whole box. And slather it in antibiotic ointment. The three-year-old would definitely apply bandaids to statuary.
    Quote Originally Posted by Wardog View Post
    Rockphed said it well.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sam Starfall
    When your pants are full of crickets, you don't need mnemonics.
    Dragontar by Serpentine.

    Now offering unsolicited advice.

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Dragon in the Playground Moderator
     
    Peelee's Avatar

    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Birmingham, AL
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: The Mind of A Six-Year-Old

    Would a six-year-old confuse a statue for a real person? Probably not. Except in an "I'm scared of it" or "what if it comes to life" way.

    Would a six-year-old do it anyway thinking it would heal the statue? Absolutely plausible.
    Last edited by Peelee; 2020-04-14 at 01:30 PM.
    Cuthalion's art is the prettiest art of all the art. Like my avatar.

    Number of times Roland St. Jude has sworn revenge upon me: 2

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    Rockphed's Avatar

    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Watching the world go by
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: The Mind of A Six-Year-Old

    For reference, last night I had to say yell, "wolves have to sleep outside," in order to get my children to stop howling.
    Quote Originally Posted by Wardog View Post
    Rockphed said it well.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sam Starfall
    When your pants are full of crickets, you don't need mnemonics.
    Dragontar by Serpentine.

    Now offering unsolicited advice.

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    BardGuy

    Join Date
    Jan 2009

    Default Re: The Mind of A Six-Year-Old

    If the statue was very realistic and life-like (e.g., not obviously stone), then I could see mistaking it. But it'd probably need to be life-like enough that an adult might mistake it at first glance, and I assume you mean a more common statue.

    From my own vague memories of childhood, and from watching my kids (not quite 6, but close), I feel like a child might think they think a band-aid would heal a person or statue, but know inwardly that it won't really. Sort of a half-conscious knowledge that they are pretending, but yet thinking it real.

    The context might also matter. If it's a child in some fearful situation, I think they are probably more likely to do something utilizing imagination/fantasy in hopes of things getting better. So, for example, a child lost in the woods or something seeing a broken statue might have more reason to try to heal it than a child, say, walking through the park with their parents and seeing a similar statue.

    But, in short, I agree with Peelee's assessment.

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Brother Oni's Avatar

    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Cippa's River Meadow
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: The Mind of A Six-Year-Old

    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    Would a six-year-old confuse a statue for a real person? Probably not. Except in an "I'm scared of it" or "what if it comes to life" way.

    Would a six-year-old do it anyway thinking it would heal the statue? Absolutely plausible.
    I definitely agree with this. Most small children are very self centered; whenever they get a scratch, Mummy would put a plaster on the scratch and it would get better, so if the statue was cracked and they wanted it to 'get better', then they would do the same thing (and probably slather antiseptic cream like you'd use polyfiller).

    Note that self centered doesn't mean selfish - a small child on seeing his father upset, would probably give him their favourite teddy bear as that's what makes them happy when they're upset.

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Dragon in the Playground Moderator
     
    Peelee's Avatar

    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Birmingham, AL
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: The Mind of A Six-Year-Old

    Quote Originally Posted by Rockphed View Post
    For reference, last night I had to say yell, "wolves have to sleep outside," in order to get my children to stop howling.
    You misspelled "in order to get them to sleep outside."
    Cuthalion's art is the prettiest art of all the art. Like my avatar.

    Number of times Roland St. Jude has sworn revenge upon me: 2

  8. - Top - End - #8
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    Rockphed's Avatar

    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Watching the world go by
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: The Mind of A Six-Year-Old

    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    You misspelled "in order to get them to sleep outside."
    They stopped howling after I made that threat. Take it as you will.
    Quote Originally Posted by Wardog View Post
    Rockphed said it well.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sam Starfall
    When your pants are full of crickets, you don't need mnemonics.
    Dragontar by Serpentine.

    Now offering unsolicited advice.

  9. - Top - End - #9
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Asmotherion's Avatar

    Join Date
    May 2015
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: The Mind of A Six-Year-Old

    Dude, my 3.5 year old speaks and writes in 2 languages, starting a 3rd one and knows multiplications. I know it's an extreamly bright child for her age, but still, children are not stupid. I could see a six year old doing that as part of a game, or by projecting it's imaginary frind to the statue, but it knows this stuff is made of stone. Perhaps a child with slight mental disability would be naive enough to actually confuse it for a person, but not one with average intelect.

    Please visit and review my System.
    Generalist Sorcerer

  10. - Top - End - #10
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Flumph

    Join Date
    Sep 2013

    Default Re: The Mind of A Six-Year-Old

    Since this is a sort of collection of "**** kids do." I am reminded of putting a tin roof on a play house for my aunt and uncle's grandkids, and we had putty strips for sealing. Said grand son took a whole roll of the putty strip to a tree stump of a tree that was blown over the previous year (so he remembered that it used to be a proper tree) and bandaged up the stump really well. Didn't miss a single spot.

    I believe that we were very thankful for buying spare supplies that day.

  11. - Top - End - #11
    Dragon in the Playground Moderator
     
    Peelee's Avatar

    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Birmingham, AL
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: The Mind of A Six-Year-Old

    Quote Originally Posted by Asmotherion View Post
    Dude, my 3.5 year old speaks and writes in 2 languages, starting a 3rd one and knows multiplications. I know it's an extreamly bright child for her age, but still, children are not stupid. I could see a six year old doing that as part of a game, or by projecting it's imaginary frind to the statue, but it knows this stuff is made of stone. Perhaps a child with slight mental disability would be naive enough to actually confuse it for a person, but not one with average intelect.
    Does your 3.5-year-old also believe that raindeer fly a man to every child in the world in a single night? It's definitely possible for a kid 30 months older to believe a band-aid can fix a statue. Knowing languages is a completely separate thing and is not relevant here.
    Cuthalion's art is the prettiest art of all the art. Like my avatar.

    Number of times Roland St. Jude has sworn revenge upon me: 2

  12. - Top - End - #12
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Asmotherion's Avatar

    Join Date
    May 2015
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: The Mind of A Six-Year-Old

    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    Does your 3.5-year-old also believe that raindeer fly a man to every child in the world in a single night? It's definitely possible for a kid 30 months older to believe a band-aid can fix a statue. Knowing languages is a completely separate thing and is not relevant here.
    I suppose... yet it seems kind of a strech.

    Please visit and review my System.
    Generalist Sorcerer

  13. - Top - End - #13

    Default Re: The Mind of A Six-Year-Old

    It really depends on how far the child has gone building a mental model of the world. One who has more experiences seeing statues are more likely to see them as an object than as a person.

  14. - Top - End - #14
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Aedilred's Avatar

    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Bristol
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: The Mind of A Six-Year-Old

    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    Does your 3.5-year-old also believe that raindeer fly a man to every child in the world in a single night? It's definitely possible for a kid 30 months older to believe a band-aid can fix a statue. Knowing languages is a completely separate thing and is not relevant here.
    I don't know - I think this may come back to what JeenLeen said. In my experience - albeit I am not a parent so that experience is limited - children are capable of being simultaneously quite gullible but also quite sceptical and perceptive. The classic "kids say the funniest things" routines are often founded in the ability of children to see things and make logical connections that adults have got into the habit of ignoring or overlooking. (The rest are usually just "child hasn't yet learned what it's not polite to say").

    Maybe not at the age of three and a half but I think by age six the majority of children who believe in Santa do so by choice, albeit maybe not a conscious one. On some level they know it doesn't make sense, but they're willing to go along with it because they don't want to confront the alternative explanations. My parents went to absurd lengths to maintain the illusion, but they did so partly because they knew I was on some level looking for evidence of the lie.


    Something I've found curious is the way that the American Santa, at least as portrayed in TV Christmas episodes and the like, differs from the Father Christmas of my youth. Both have similar characteristics but the way "Santa" is approached is somehow slightly less believable.

    For instance, our Father Christmas lived in Lapland, as opposed to Santa living at the North Pole. To an alert child, "the North Pole" raises a lot of questions. Which pole, true north or magnetic north? Haven't people been to the north pole? Why didn't they see his house? Why doesn't it show up in photos of explorers there, or on Google Maps? There isn't even any land at the North Pole, just ice, etc. Lapland, by contrast, is big and vague and real enough that you can say "somewhere in Lapland, nobody knows where".

    And then there's the diet. Santa - as I understand it - has milk and cookies left out for him, which is what a child would want. In our house at least, Father Christmas got a mince pie and a glass of sherry: what an adult would want. Part of that was probably for the benefit of my dad, but it also helped contribute to the image of an actual person with a mindset different to that of a child.

    This is probably partly anti-American snobbery on my part, and probably also a slightt sadness at seeing my childhood traditions gradually eroded and homogenised by the flood of American media to the extent. But I do think that the modern/American Santa is a slightly more fantastic, less believable figure, less relatable and somehow less rooted in the real world. Or maybe that's just nostalgia on my part.
    GITP Blood Bowl Manager Cup
    Red Sabres - Season I Cup Champions, two-time Cup Semifinalists
    Anlec Razors - Two-time Cup Semifinalists
    Bad Badenhof Bats - Season VII Cup Champions
    League Wiki

    Spoiler: Previous Avatars
    Show
    (by Strawberries)
    (by Rain Dragon)

  15. - Top - End - #15
    Dragon in the Playground Moderator
     
    Peelee's Avatar

    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Birmingham, AL
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: The Mind of A Six-Year-Old

    A.) the Santa bit was a quick and easy example. There are countless others.

    2.)
    Quote Originally Posted by Aedilred View Post
    To an alert child, "the North Pole" raises a lot of questions. Which pole, true north or magnetic north?
    That is one hell of a precocious six-year-old.
    Cuthalion's art is the prettiest art of all the art. Like my avatar.

    Number of times Roland St. Jude has sworn revenge upon me: 2

  16. - Top - End - #16
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    Rockphed's Avatar

    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Watching the world go by
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: The Mind of A Six-Year-Old

    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    A.) the Santa bit was a quick and easy example. There are countless others.

    2.)
    That is one hell of a precocious six-year-old.
    My six-year-old can't read a map (or read much of anything for that matter). She definitely doesn't know that there are multiple north poles.
    Quote Originally Posted by Wardog View Post
    Rockphed said it well.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sam Starfall
    When your pants are full of crickets, you don't need mnemonics.
    Dragontar by Serpentine.

    Now offering unsolicited advice.

  17. - Top - End - #17
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Spore's Avatar

    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    Germany
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: The Mind of A Six-Year-Old

    I don't have children but as far as I can remember, I started making up my own stories with 5 or 6. "What if the statue came to life right now. It would be hurting." Then again, I was aware this was a narrative in my head, and while I would believe a statue coming to life was possible, I knew that I would be in trouble for wasting our medical cabinet for my game.

    There is more to a kid's imagination and games than pure fantasy, I'm afraid. General upbringing, certain bans (do not touch the oven, keep away from the cleaning cabinet etc.) and general approach to hurting people (do not go near this bleeding person, help anyone in need, prevent problems, save medicine by only using it as a last resort).

    Imagination runs wild until a certain age, but a 6 y/o would know to temper this. I can totally see a free-spirited child still doing this though.

  18. - Top - End - #18

    Default Re: The Mind of A Six-Year-Old

    Quote Originally Posted by Aedilred View Post
    And then there's the diet. Santa - as I understand it - has milk and cookies left out for him, which is what a child would want. In our house at least, Father Christmas got a mince pie and a glass of sherry: what an adult would want. Part of that was probably for the benefit of my dad, but it also helped contribute to the image of an actual person with a mindset different to that of a child.
    Funny. When I was a kid, it was understood that Santa got a pot pie and a cold beer. I don't think I thought about how he got a hot meal and a cold beer until I was about six or seven.

  19. - Top - End - #19
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Durkoala's Avatar

    Join Date
    May 2014
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: The Mind of A Six-Year-Old

    Quote Originally Posted by Aedilred View Post
    For instance, our Father Christmas lived in Lapland, as opposed to Santa living at the North Pole. To an alert child, "the North Pole" raises a lot of questions. Which pole, true north or magnetic north? Haven't people been to the north pole? Why didn't they see his house? Why doesn't it show up in photos of explorers there, or on Google Maps? There isn't even any land at the North Pole, just ice, etc. Lapland, by contrast, is big and vague and real enough that you can say "somewhere in Lapland, nobody knows where".
    I also grew up* in Britan and Father Christmas's address was frequently (but not always) said to be at the North Pole. I always assumed that people had gone there and had seen his house, but there were no photos for the same reason photos of my friends' houses weren't just lying around: you didn't take pictures of other people's houses unless you knew them.

    Also, for some reason when I learned of the two poles, I was completely convinced he lived next to the stripey barber's shop true north, but I don't know why I thought that. Possibly because magnetic north moved around so nobody could build a house on it, but I'm not sure I knew about magnetic north moving then...

    *possibly later than you did, as I remember hearing about both sides of the legend when I was told Christmas stories.
    Spoiler: Pixel avatar and Raincloud Durkoala were made by me. The others are the work of Cuthalion.
    Show

    Cuteness and Magic and Phone Moogles, oh my! Let's Watch Card Captor Sakura!Sadly on a small hiatus.

    Durkoala reads a book! It's about VR and the nineties!

  20. - Top - End - #20
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    DrowGirl

    Join Date
    Mar 2016

    Default Re: The Mind of A Six-Year-Old

    I have a five year old. I think he would be just as able to tell that statue is not alive as an adult (so for a fake to be able to fool him it would also have to fool an adult), and I'm sure he'd know that putting a bandaid on it wouldn't heal it because it's not real. I don't think he is out of step with other 5 year olds in this regard.

  21. - Top - End - #21
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    HalflingRogueGuy

    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: The Mind of A Six-Year-Old

    Not every six years old know enough about biology to understand that band-aid is not magical duct-tape that repairs minor cracks in what you put it on.
    Yes, I am slightly egomaniac. Why didn't you ask?

    Free haiku !
    Alas, poor Cookie
    The world needs more platypi
    I wish you could be


    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari
    Also this isn’t D&D, flaming the troll doesn’t help either.

  22. - Top - End - #22
    Titan in the Playground
     
    tyckspoon's Avatar

    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Indianapolis
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: The Mind of A Six-Year-Old

    Quote Originally Posted by Cazero View Post
    Not every six years old know enough about biology to understand that band-aid is not magical duct-tape that repairs minor cracks in what you put it on.
    Whereas us worldly experienced adults know this is what actual duct-tape is for.

  23. - Top - End - #23
    Dragon in the Playground Moderator
     
    Peelee's Avatar

    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Birmingham, AL
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: The Mind of A Six-Year-Old

    Duct tape isn't even that good a tape!
    Cuthalion's art is the prettiest art of all the art. Like my avatar.

    Number of times Roland St. Jude has sworn revenge upon me: 2

  24. - Top - End - #24
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Telonius's Avatar

    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Wandering in Harrekh
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: The Mind of A Six-Year-Old

    My daughter listens in on our D&D sessions. At 6, she might have gotten the message that the whole party assumes every statue we encounter has about a 50% chance of coming to life and attacking us in-game. Real-world though? Nah, she was pretty clear about that sort of thing.

  25. - Top - End - #25
    Troll in the Playground
     
    ElfRangerGuy

    Join Date
    Jun 2018
    Location
    Belgium
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: The Mind of A Six-Year-Old

    I don't think they would confuse a statue with a person, but they might but a band-aid on it. I've seen my nieces do that with their teddy bears to play, so why not a statue.
    Or depending on your system, illusion or enchantment spells might get her to do it against her will.
    Clacks-Overhead: GNU Terry Pratchett

    "Magic can turn a frog into a prince. Science can turn a frog into a Ph.D. and you still have the frog you started with." Terry Pratchett
    "I will not yield to evil, unless she's cute."

  26. - Top - End - #26
    Colossus in the Playground
     
    JNAProductions's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Location
    Avatar By Astral Seal!

    Default Re: The Mind of A Six-Year-Old

    Just want to say this thread is very endearing. Glad to hear fun stories from parents of the Playground.

    Hope everyone is well! Thanks for the smiles. :)
    I have a LOT of Homebrew!

    Spoiler: Former Avatars
    Show
    Spoiler: Avatar (Not In Use) By Linkele
    Show

    Spoiler: Individual Avatar Pics
    Show

  27. - Top - End - #27
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    The Fury's Avatar

    Join Date
    Feb 2013

    Default Re: The Mind of A Six-Year-Old

    I've had friends that are parents who have had me look after their kids.
    Most of them seemed pretty bright and probably understand that statues aren't alive and band-aids wouldn't heal them. That said, some of them might like to pretend that a statue is alive and put bandaids on it.

  28. - Top - End - #28
    Bugbear in the Playground
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Location
    Ontario, Canada
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: The Mind of A Six-Year-Old

    Really, it depends on your six-year-old. Like, are you asking if it's plausible that at least one six-year-old somewhere in the world would think that? Then yeah, sure. If you're asking whether an otherwise normal six-year-old would do that, it becomes less likely.

    Human adults vary wildly in what they know and how they perceive the world to work. Children vary even more. I guarantee you there's a six-year-old somewhere who would make that leap. Even otherwise "smart" kids might think that way, just because of a gap in their knowledge. But I wouldn't say most of them would think that would work.
    That's all I can think of, at any rate.

    Quote Originally Posted by remetagross View Post
    All hail the mighty Strigon! One only has to ask, and one shall receive.

  29. - Top - End - #29
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    SaintRidley's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    The land of corn
    Gender
    Male2Female

    Default Re: The Mind of A Six-Year-Old

    Quote Originally Posted by Aedilred View Post
    To an alert child, "the North Pole" raises a lot of questions. Which pole, true north or magnetic north? Haven't people been to the north pole?
    A question no six year old has asked in the history of ever.
    Linguist and Invoker of Orcus of the Rudisplorker's Guild
    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    Fantasy literature is ONLY worthwhile for what it can tell us about the real world; everything else is petty escapism.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    No author should have to take the time to say, "This little girl ISN'T evil, folks!" in order for the reader to understand that. It should be assumed that no first graders are irredeemably Evil unless the text tells you they are.

  30. - Top - End - #30
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    dehro's Avatar

    Join Date
    May 2007
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: The Mind of A Six-Year-Old

    Quote Originally Posted by Asmotherion View Post
    Dude, my 3.5 year old speaks and writes in 2 languages, starting a 3rd one and knows multiplications. I know it's an extreamly bright child for her age, but still, children are not stupid. I could see a six year old doing that as part of a game, or by projecting it's imaginary frind to the statue, but it knows this stuff is made of stone. Perhaps a child with slight mental disability would be naive enough to actually confuse it for a person, but not one with average intelect.
    typical 3.5 minmaxing shenanigans...


    On a more serious note, context is everything.

    Within the context of a game being played by a child, everything can be... A car is a car, but if you are playing out a battle then it's a fortress and climbing on top of it is entirely justified to defend your position. Same if it's home base in a game of tag and your little sister is too little to climb on top of it. The fact that by doing so you will cover it in scratches really is an issue for later. (What are you talking about? I didn't get in trouble for this as a child, you did!)..
    Also, what happens when you see an archway with old plaster crumbling off of it? Well the decent thing to do would be to smoothe it out by removing the crumbly bits from the wall, right? All of them... off of the whole wall, to be sure it's nice and even.. oh.. you think your parents will notice that now the archway is of a different colour and in some places old brick is exposed? surely not!..

    Now, I might not be particularly bright, and might not have been a particularly bright kid, but I was 8-9 when I did these things, either because engossed in a game or out of genuine desire to help.
    So yes, within the right context, this can totally happen.
    Children of age 5-6 have tea parties with their dolls and sip on nothing but air, expecting you to play along.... so whether they truly believe that you are drinking tea, are conscious you are playing along or truly believe tea manifests itself like the banquet in the movie Hook, is immaterial, you, the adult, will still be sat on a tiny chair loudly slurping down imaginary tea from a plastic cup that you have no recollection buying for your child and even less idea where it's been.

    Children bend reality around them on a daily basis. Some children look at a statue and will see a statue, other will see a creature in need of help, others still will see a perfect springboard to jump in the nearby bushes from.
    To go back to the manuscript, if the confusion is framed as self imposed for play purposes, as a result or way to cope with trauma, as a remnant from a previous game, a result of genuine uncertainty or a learning disability, then, sure, have at it.. if an otherwise entirely savvy and bright child who has seen the statue before, or is definitely not playing or operating under a cloud of "somebody told me it is a living creature/this is Santa's helper", then no.... because, as I said, context.
    Last edited by dehro; 2020-04-22 at 02:38 AM.
    All hail Smutmulch for crafting my avatar!
    Quote Originally Posted by kpenguin View Post
    Cursed zombies are more realistic.
    Spoiler: siggatar and previous avatars.
    Show

    the Badass Monkby Avi. Aktarus by Chd. Dehro by Wojiz


Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •