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    Default Good artificer homebrew

    I'm looking specifically homebrew subclasses that are at least decently balanced and playable. What I'd like to find is something scroll based, like a magic scribe or the like, anyone think they can help?

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    Default Re: Good artificer homebrew

    Quote Originally Posted by moonfly7 View Post
    I'm looking specifically homebrew subclasses that are at least decently balanced and playable. What I'd like to find is something scroll based, like a magic scribe or the like, anyone think they can help?
    The artificer is already badly balanced. (Sorry, my experience with it from the play at table is that it does not fit into PHB 5e D&D very well). For starters, take a good hard look at the protector arcane turret.
    Last edited by KorvinStarmast; 2020-04-22 at 10:40 AM.
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    Default Re: Good artificer homebrew

    Quote Originally Posted by KorvinStarmast View Post
    The artificer is already badly balanced. (Sorry, my experience with it from the play at table is that it does not fit into PHB 5e D&D very well). For starters, take a good hard look at the protector arcane turret.
    I guess you haven't seen a shepherd druid or glamour bard in play yet.
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    Default Re: Good artificer homebrew

    Quote Originally Posted by stoutstien View Post
    I guess you haven't seen a shepherd druid or glamour bard in play yet.
    I've seen a shepherd druid, and as with all druids, concentration makes or breaks quite a few of their spells. But that class feature is kind of cool (though Shepherd isn't in in the PHB )
    Last edited by KorvinStarmast; 2020-04-22 at 11:06 AM.
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    a. Malifice (paraphrased):
    Rulings are not 'House Rules.' Rulings are a DM doing what DMs are supposed to do.
    b. greenstone (paraphrased):
    Agency means that they {players} control their character's actions; you control the world's reactions to the character's actions.
    Gosh, 2D8HP, you are so very correct!
    Second known member of the Greyview Appreciation Society

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    Default Re: Good artificer homebrew

    Quote Originally Posted by moonfly7 View Post
    I'm looking specifically homebrew subclasses that are at least decently balanced and playable. What I'd like to find is something scroll based, like a magic scribe or the like, anyone think they can help?
    You can already do this to a point with the tools required feature.
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    Default Re: Good artificer homebrew

    Quote Originally Posted by KorvinStarmast View Post
    I've seen a shepherd druid, and as with all druids, concentration makes or breaks quite a few of their spells. But that class feature is kind of cool (though Shepherd isn't in in the PHB )
    The point was a handful of THP is hardly out of line. The artificer overall is about right for a half caster.
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    Default Re: Good artificer homebrew

    Quote Originally Posted by stoutstien View Post
    The point was a handful of THP is hardly out of line. The artificer overall is about right for a half caster.
    It's not a handful. We had a 3 round battle and it prevented over 40 points of damage. (Granted, a few lower rolls would have made that something in the mid 30's).
    Cost; 0 spell slots.
    Avatar by linklele. How Teleport Works
    a. Malifice (paraphrased):
    Rulings are not 'House Rules.' Rulings are a DM doing what DMs are supposed to do.
    b. greenstone (paraphrased):
    Agency means that they {players} control their character's actions; you control the world's reactions to the character's actions.
    Gosh, 2D8HP, you are so very correct!
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    Default Re: Good artificer homebrew

    Quote Originally Posted by KorvinStarmast View Post
    It's not a handful. We had a 3 round battle and it prevented over 40 points of damage. (Granted, a few lower rolls would have made that something in the mid 30's).
    Cost; 0 spell slots.
    Cost : their 1/day free turret. Also about half of their available offense. It's a great feature, don't get me wrong, but do keep in mind that until level 5,this is a casting focused class that has three spells per day plus one turret. They have opted to give up a big chunk of their offense in exchange for preventing damage.

    :edit: also, as a subclass feature, if the OP is looking for homebrew to support a scribe, they're probably not using Artillerist.
    Last edited by Quietus; 2020-04-22 at 12:05 PM.

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    Default Re: Good artificer homebrew

    What exactly would a scroll based Artificer do?

    You can easily re-flavor you spell casting as using scrolls. Scrolls are pretty restrictive to those who can only cast the spell that is on their class’ spell list, unlike the alchemist’s elixirs can be given and used by anyone.
    Last edited by Garfunion; 2020-04-22 at 12:24 PM.

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    Default Re: Good artificer homebrew

    Quote Originally Posted by Quietus View Post
    They have opted to give up a big chunk of their offense in exchange for preventing damage.
    Good point on what the OP is looking for.
    As to "sacrificing offense" for a single first level spell, they get for an hour 2d8 force damage per round (roll to hit like any missile weapon) if there's a ranged threat rather than a melee threat. Long after the Ranger has loosed his 20th arrow, this guy is blazing away and scoring 2d8 per hit.

    Yeah, that's the second turret that costs a single spell slot. Compare to Chaos Bolt that also costs a single spell slot, and you get to attack once with it.

    Artificer is not balanced. (But hey, that turret is wonderful to have if you need to shoot a few enemies, as it does force damage ... go for it! And it knocks them back! Woot!)
    Last edited by KorvinStarmast; 2020-04-22 at 02:26 PM.
    Avatar by linklele. How Teleport Works
    a. Malifice (paraphrased):
    Rulings are not 'House Rules.' Rulings are a DM doing what DMs are supposed to do.
    b. greenstone (paraphrased):
    Agency means that they {players} control their character's actions; you control the world's reactions to the character's actions.
    Gosh, 2D8HP, you are so very correct!
    Second known member of the Greyview Appreciation Society

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    Default Re: Good artificer homebrew

    Quote Originally Posted by KorvinStarmast View Post
    Good point on what the OP is looking for.
    As to "sacrificing offense" for a single first level spell, they get for an hour 2d8 force damage per round (roll to hit like any missile weapon) if there's a ranged threat rather than a melee threat. Long after the Ranger has loosed his 20th arrow, this guy is blazing away and scoring 2d8 per hit.

    Yeah, that's the second turret that costs a single spell slot. Compare to Chaos Bolt that also costs a single spell slot, and you get to attack once with it.

    Artificer is not balanced. (But hey, that turret is wonderful to have if you need to shoot a few enemies, as it does force damage ... go for it! And it knocks them back! Woot!)
    A) your examples are all Artillerist, not Artificer. Take issue with the subclass, not the class.
    B) Artillerist is very good, but not broken. I'm playing one right now, and I feel solidly on par with the rest of the team. Well, except the druid. And the cleric. They both outclass me pretty solidly. I'm keeping pace with the party warlock and barbarian, which is just about exactly where I should be.

    How many combats are you in where rangers are firing 20 arrows? Also remember that 2d8 doesn't add your spellcasting stat, so it's swingy at best. My 2d8 and my Warlock buddy's 1d10+cha are about even. My Barbarian buddy's 1d12+str+rage+1 is right there with my damage, and they have only spent one bonus action, where I have to spend mine every turn. It's nothing crazy.
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    Default Re: Good artificer homebrew

    Quote Originally Posted by Quietus View Post
    A) your examples are all Artillerist, not Artificer. Take issue with the subclass, not the class.
    B) Artillerist is very good, but not broken. I'm playing one right now, and I feel solidly on par with the rest of the team. Well, except the druid. And the cleric. They both outclass me pretty solidly. I'm keeping pace with the party warlock and barbarian, which is just about exactly where I should be.

    How many combats are you in where rangers are firing 20 arrows? Also remember that 2d8 doesn't add your spellcasting stat, so it's swingy at best. My 2d8 and my Warlock buddy's 1d10+cha are about even. My Barbarian buddy's 1d12+str+rage+1 is right there with my damage, and they have only spent one bonus action, where I have to spend mine every turn. It's nothing crazy.
    I agree the cannons duration is hard to work with. you usually go get one maybe two encounters out of the hour and precast and it will always be a risk. So on paper the damage looks crazy but in use they actually get more mileage from arcane firearm.

    *Personally I changed it to a unlimited duration but each cannon has charges equal to the artillerists INT mod + proficiency bonus. I probably track time more precise than most tables and the duration on this stills seems wonky.*
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    Default Re: Good artificer homebrew

    Quote Originally Posted by stoutstien View Post
    I agree the cannons duration is hard to work with. you usually go get one maybe two encounters out of the hour and precast and it will always be a risk. So on paper the damage looks crazy but in use they actually get more mileage from arcane firearm.

    *Personally I changed it to a unlimited duration but each cannon has charges equal to the artillerists INT mod + proficiency bonus. I probably track time more precise than most tables and the duration on this stills seems wonky.*
    That's one big thing very few people remember - it takes an action to summon your turret. That's a turn you're doing nothing but maybe firing for 2d8+nothing.
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    Default Re: Good artificer homebrew

    Quote Originally Posted by Garfunion View Post
    What exactly would a scroll based Artificer do?

    You can easily re-flavor you spell casting as using scrolls. Scrolls are pretty restrictive to those who can only cast the spell that is on their class’ spell list, unlike the alchemist’s elixirs can be given and used by anyone.
    I don't think I worded that very well. But I figured somebody our there has made like a scribe artificer subclass or something. Although I'd be greatful for any subclasses at this point because so far all I've done is spark an argument about if the class is balanced or not(and I've played like 4 artificers. 2 artillerist, 1 battle smith. 1 alchemist. I'm 100% not even close to being the number 1 support, damage dealer, or even giver of THP. Although I did decent damage as the battle Smith.).

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    Default Re: Good artificer homebrew

    Quote Originally Posted by moonfly7 View Post
    I don't think I worded that very well. But I figured somebody our there has made like a scribe artificer subclass or something. Although I'd be greatful for any subclasses at this point because so far all I've done is spark an argument about if the class is balanced or not(and I've played like 4 artificers. 2 artillerist, 1 battle smith. 1 alchemist. I'm 100% not even close to being the number 1 support, damage dealer, or even giver of THP. Although I did decent damage as the battle Smith.).
    I think one issue is creating scrolls isn't a specific tool proficiency but rather a branch off of arcana.

    As far as for a new subcass I'm having a hard time thinking up of a good feature to encompass scrolls with. It's easier for me do envision a artificer using painting tools to dr. Seuss up a fireball.

    Maybe arcane origami? Could make paper items that can act like the real thing for a limited time.

    Maybe a rune scribe then it could work in a mason angle as well. The subclass could paint/engrave temporary lesser contingency spells.
    Last edited by stoutstien; 2020-04-22 at 05:24 PM.

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    Default Re: Good artificer homebrew

    Quote Originally Posted by moonfly7 View Post
    I don't think I worded that very well. But I figured somebody our there has made like a scribe artificer subclass or something. Although I'd be greatful for any subclasses at this point because so far all I've done is spark an argument about if the class is balanced or not(and I've played like 4 artificers. 2 artillerist, 1 battle smith. 1 alchemist. I'm 100% not even close to being the number 1 support, damage dealer, or even giver of THP. Although I did decent damage as the battle Smith.).
    You are looking for an artificer subclass that deals in the use and making of scrolls.

    The 5e Artificer class is still “new” and I’m willing to help but I’m still not sure what a scribe artificer would be. Short of the artificer re-fluffy casting their class prepared spells with scrolls.

    What are you imagining an artificer scribe would be?

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    Default Re: Good artificer homebrew

    Quote Originally Posted by stoutstien View Post
    I think one issue is creating scrolls isn't a specific tool proficiency but rather a branch off of arcana.

    As far as for a new subcass I'm having a hard time thinking up of a good feature to encompass scrolls with. It's easier for me do envision a artificer using painting tools to dr. Seuss up a fireball.

    Maybe arcane origami? Could make paper items that can act like the real thing for a limited time.

    Maybe a rune scribe then it could work in a mason angle as well. The subclass could paint/engrave temporary lesser contingency spells.
    Quote Originally Posted by Garfunion View Post
    You are looking for an artificer subclass that deals in the use and making of scrolls.

    The 5e Artificer class is still “new” and I’m willing to help but I’m still not sure what a scribe artificer would be. Short of the artificer re-fluffy casting their class prepared spells with scrolls.

    What are you imagining an artificer scribe would be?
    Honestly I didn't really have a good idea but now I know: what Stoutstein said, Rune scribe. Sorry for not really knowing sooner. Should I change it on the original post?

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    Default Re: Good artificer homebrew

    Quote Originally Posted by stoutstien View Post
    Maybe a rune scribe then it could work in a mason angle as well. The subclass could paint/engrave temporary lesser contingency spells.
    This has potential, could use the alchemist subclass as a base model. Having a number of runes that you can make.
    Hmmm

    Quote Originally Posted by moonfly7 View Post
    Honestly I didn't really have a good idea but now I know: what Stoutstein said, Rune scribe. Sorry for not really knowing sooner. Should I change it on the original post?
    No it is fine.
    Last edited by Garfunion; 2020-04-22 at 05:51 PM.

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    Default Re: Good artificer homebrew

    Rune Scribe thoughts.

    1) Runes as item buffs.
    2) Runes in flesh
    3) Runes on stones; casting runes (divination, pseudo-random effexts)
    4) Runes in areas; traps and symbols
    5) A grammar; adjective-verb-noun.
    6) Giants
    7) Dwarves
    8) Runes on paper. Attaching paper to thinfs. Burning them.
    9) Scribing 1 rune/turn as a bonus action. Activating phrases as an action.

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    Default Re: Good artificer homebrew

    Ok I see a rune scribe as being focused on keeping stuff in and out so maybe a focus on Control and buffing.
    Bonus tool proficiency : mason or painter

    Spells:
    Protection Good/evil, shield of faith
    Knock, NMA
    Bestow curse, GoW
    Banishment, summon greater demon
    Circle of power, hallow
    Lv 3 feature
    Can add a lesser rune to a weapon adding 1d4 force damage to attacks made with it. Can activate it on attack to cause scaling damage. Once a day free and 1st lv slot to reapply.

    Lv 5 feature
    *Do you want them to be cantrip or weapon focused? Could see both here.*

    Lv 9 feature
    Upgrade lesser rune to 2d4 and can now active it twice before recharging it.

    Lv 15
    Can have two lesser runes active at once and when they are activated they add five damage equal to 1/2 your artificer levels rounded up.

    I'd have to play with the exact numbers to find a good spot.
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    Default Re: Good artificer homebrew

    Quote Originally Posted by KorvinStarmast View Post
    Good point on what the OP is looking for.
    As to "sacrificing offense" for a single first level spell, they get for an hour 2d8 force damage per round (roll to hit like any missile weapon) if there's a ranged threat rather than a melee threat. Long after the Ranger has loosed his 20th arrow, this guy is blazing away and scoring 2d8 per hit.

    Yeah, that's the second turret that costs a single spell slot. Compare to Chaos Bolt that also costs a single spell slot, and you get to attack once with it.

    Artificer is not balanced. (But hey, that turret is wonderful to have if you need to shoot a few enemies, as it does force damage ... go for it! And it knocks them back! Woot!)
    You're not exactly wrong...but you're not exactly right.

    I've been playing an artificer online with a new DM. And he's extremely frustrated with how often the protection cannon goes off. The problem is, we have two fights then a long rest. We almost never use a short rest. And I've hit level 7 and we have yet to have more than 3 fights per long rest.

    That absolutely makes me OP, and I told him so. Until he starts the appropriate number of battles to rests, I've voluntarily decided not to use the Protection Cannon unless an innocent NPC is involved.

    Once per day is supposed to be 1/6th to 1/8th of my total battle time. I should have at most one spell slot per fight at this level. I could use my turret every time even at this many fights, but it would cost all my spells, including such fantastic options as Faerie Fire, Cure Wounds, Alter Self, Web, Shatter, or Enlarge/Reduce.

    If you space out the time between battles, and actually give 6-8 fights per long rest, then the Artillerist suddenly becomes much more along the lines of the other classes. The Cannon is still strong if, for example, you have 8 fights all within an hour; but logically, that should be a very unusual situation.

    If they come out with a 5.5, they need to better emphasize this ratio of encounters per rest. Make Gritty Realism the default, perhaps.
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    Default Re: Good artificer homebrew

    Quote Originally Posted by Mjolnirbear View Post
    You're not exactly wrong...but you're not exactly right.

    I've been playing an artificer online with a new DM. And he's extremely frustrated with how often the protection cannon goes off. The problem is, we have two fights then a long rest. We almost never use a short rest. And I've hit level 7 and we have yet to have more than 3 fights per long rest.

    That absolutely makes me OP, and I told him so. Until he starts the appropriate number of battles to rests, I've voluntarily decided not to use the Protection Cannon unless an innocent NPC is involved.

    Once per day is supposed to be 1/6th to 1/8th of my total battle time. I should have at most one spell slot per fight at this level. I could use my turret every time even at this many fights, but it would cost all my spells, including such fantastic options as Faerie Fire, Cure Wounds, Alter Self, Web, Shatter, or Enlarge/Reduce.

    If you space out the time between battles, and actually give 6-8 fights per long rest, then the Artillerist suddenly becomes much more along the lines of the other classes. The Cannon is still strong if, for example, you have 8 fights all within an hour; but logically, that should be a very unusual situation.

    If they come out with a 5.5, they need to better emphasize this ratio of encounters per rest. Make Gritty Realism the default, perhaps.
    I mean, a lot of classes are going to seem extremely powerful if you're only seeing two encounters per LR with no SRs. that's like me saying warlocks are overpowered because I'm running a campaign where everything has Force damage vulnerability.
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