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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Dwarf in the Playground
    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    Location
    UK

    Default Halfling rogue/fighter/ranger

    Looking at the way a halfling rogue 16/fighter 2/ranger specialising with daggers.

    Obviously looking at staying within 30ft for sneak attack purposes.

    Just a couple of questions:
    if your target is within 30ft and a friendly on the other side of that target, do you and the friendly target count as flanking? specifically would the rogue gain their sneak attack?

    If the rogue is hidden and throws daggers at target within 30ft, would the target gain sneak attack due to target not being able to defend themselves properly? Would they then have to do another hide / move silently check to rehide?

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Titan in the Playground
    Join Date
    Feb 2011

    Default Re: Halfling rogue/fighter/ranger

    First, what books do you have available? Is this 3.5, Pathfinder, or a mix?

    And do you have your feats planned out for the entire build?

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Dwarf in the Playground
    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    Location
    UK

    Default Re: Halfling rogue/fighter/ranger

    https://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Little...aracter_Build)

    3.5 edition, no pathfinder

    Core books and maybe spell compendium.

    other question is: if having multiple attacks and therefore multiple throws of daggers, would sneak attack just apply to just the first attack in combat after 2nd round of combat

    edit: would hiding be a prereq for sneak attacking at a distance if the target isn't looking your way? (ie backstabing at a distance)
    Last edited by haplot; 2020-04-24 at 12:05 PM. Reason: asking additional question

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    BardGuy

    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Minot, ND
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Halfling rogue/fighter/ranger

    Quote Originally Posted by haplot View Post
    Just a couple of questions:
    if your target is within 30ft and a friendly on the other side of that target, do you and the friendly target count as flanking? specifically would the rogue gain their sneak attack?
    No. For flanking, you need to be adjacent/threatening to your target. There are a couple of feats and prestige classes though that give you the ability to flank at range.
    Quote Originally Posted by haplot View Post
    If the rogue is hidden and throws daggers at target within 30ft, would the target gain sneak attack due to target not being able to defend themselves properly? Would they then have to do another hide / move silently check to rehide?
    Yes. This is covered under Sniping from the Hide skill. "Sniping: If you’ve already successfully hidden at least 10 feet from your target, you can make one ranged attack, then immediately hide again. You take a –20 penalty on your Hide check to conceal yourself after the shot."

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Troll in the Playground
     
    PaladinGuy

    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    UK
    Gender
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    Default Re: Halfling rogue/fighter/ranger

    Quote Originally Posted by gorfnab View Post
    No. For flanking, you need to be adjacent/threatening to your target. There are a couple of feats and prestige classes thought that give you the ability to flank at range.
    In fact it goes beyond this - barring special abilities, you cannot get a flanking bonus effect with a ranged attack.

    So, not only do you have to threaten in melee to flank, but if manging to threaten (and have flank) if you make a ranged attack the flank is ignored.

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    BardGuy

    Join Date
    Sep 2009
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    Minot, ND
    Gender
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    Default Re: Halfling rogue/fighter/ranger

    Quote Originally Posted by haplot View Post
    https://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Little...aracter_Build)

    3.5 edition, no pathfinder

    Core books and maybe spell compendium.
    D&D Wiki material should be taken with a grain of salt. Most of it is not official and from homebrew sources. That build though does draw from the Player's Handbook. It's okay if you're unfortunately restricted to core books. From the sounds of it, I'm guessing you're group is not the most optimized? The class level order is okay but I would make the following feat changes.
    Point Blank Shot at 1
    Precise Shot at 3 instead of Weapon Focus
    Far Shot at 12
    Greater Two Weapon Fighting at 15
    Combat Reflexes at 18

    Quote Originally Posted by haplot View Post
    other question is: if having multiple attacks and therefore multiple throws of daggers, would sneak attack just apply to just the first attack in combat after 2nd round of combat
    Sneak Attack applies to all attacks made, not just the first attack, as long as the condition to meet sneak attack are still in effect. "If a rogue can catch an opponent when he is unable to defend himself effectively from her attack, she can strike a vital spot for extra damage. The rogue’s attack deals extra damage any time her target would be denied a Dexterity bonus to AC (whether the target actually has a Dexterity bonus or not), or when the rogue flanks her target." Also see Rules of the Game: All About Sneak Attacks (Part Three) in the links below
    Quote Originally Posted by haplot View Post
    edit: would hiding be a prereq for sneak attacking at a distance if the target isn't looking your way? (ie backstabing at a distance)
    Yes. If your Hide check is successful against the target's Spot check, then you are not seen or visually detectable. "Invisible: Visually undetectable. An invisible creature gains a +2 bonus on attack rolls against sighted opponents, and ignores its opponents’ Dexterity bonuses to AC (if any)" At that point you would want to the see Sniping rules under the Hide skill. "Sniping: If you’ve already successfully hidden at least 10 feet from your target, you can make one ranged attack, then immediately hide again. You take a –20 penalty on your Hide check to conceal yourself after the shot."

    These articles from Wizards of the Coast should be of some help with clearing up how sneak attack works.
    Rules of the Game: All About Sneak Attacks (Part One)
    Rules of the Game: All About Sneak Attacks (Part Two)
    Rules of the Game: All About Sneak Attacks (Part Three)
    Rules of the Game: All About Sneak Attacks (Part Four)

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Titan in the Playground
    Join Date
    Dec 2004

    Default Re: Halfling rogue/fighter/ranger

    Most of the builds on dandwiki are extremely subpar, and of the few that can even be called optimized, most are based on a misinterpretation of one rule or another or fail to meet prerequisites for what they're taking or are otherwise illegal/invalid. In short, it's a terrible website with terrible information that should simply be ignored. That build you linked has Iron Will at 1st level and Two-Weapon Defense, the person who made it clearly didn't entirely know what they were doing.

    As for your character, what level are you starting at, and what level do you reasonably expect to reach by the time the campaign ends? What do you want to do, besides deliver sneak attacks? The build you posted could only reliably sneak attack on every thrown dagger attack if they have Greater Invisibility cast on them or similar, so it's 100% dependent on another character buffing them to even function. There are plenty of ways to get a self-sufficient build that can do just as much and then some, even with such limited source books. For example, a Rogue 4/ Wizard 1/ Assassin (or Avenger) 5/ Arcane Trickster 10 has 10d6 sneak attack and Wizard 11 spellcasting, and still has the BAB for three attacks/round.
    Last edited by Biffoniacus_Furiou; 2020-04-26 at 03:19 AM.

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