Predictions for book 7

[Emanick]

Doesn't matter how clearly he stated it -- authors can be wrong about their own work. In #945 we see the Snarl acting. It has agency. It is not a McGuffin.

MacGuffins can act, to a limited degree. They just can't really be fully-fleshed out characters.

Picture a story where the MacGuffin is a rare bird that a large group of people are all trying to recapture (maybe it has diamonds for feathers or something, who knows). It doesn't stop being a MacGuffin if it's flying around wildly in the climactic scene, evading capture and complicating pursuit. It could even injure someone by shattering glass or knocking over a heavy object. Likewise, The Snarl can pose a real physical threat and lash out at characters without ceasing to be a MacGuffin. It may have some limited agency, but probably more on an animalistic level, like the diamond-feathered bird, than in any sort of meaningful character-development-y way.

[Dion]

A Macguffin doesn’t have to be inert.

Private Ryan was a Macguffin.

The Death Star plans were a Macguffin.

The Lost Ark was a Macguffin.

I mean, sure, in the very narrow and limited sense, the only “real” Macguffins are things like the Maltese Falcon, which do nothing but take space in a bus locker until they’re not even at good for that anymore. And it’s fine if you choose to use the term in its narrowest sense.

But the term gets used a lot more broadly than that. And when you’re trying to analyze what other people mean when they say Macguffin, it may be helpful to acknowledge that they may be using a broader definition than you personally prefer.

[Ron Miel]

Prediction: Bounty hunters will come after Elan. When he says "I'm not Nale" they will simply say "we know, you're the one we're after." He is of course still wanted for mass murder in Cliffport.

[Schroeswald]

Prediction: Bounty hunters will come after Elan. When he says "I'm not Nale" they will simply say "we know, you're the one we're after." He is of course still wanted for mass murder in Cliffport.

Why? As far as they know it was Nale who did all the crimes, Nale who was arrested and Nale who broke free (or maybe Nale who just kind of blew up and died).

[KorvinStarmast]

Why? As far as they know it was Nale who did all the crimes, Nale who was arrested and Nale who broke free (or maybe Nale who just kind of blew up and died).

Or, it was Nale who faked his own death to escape the law from Cliffport.

[Ron Miel]

Why? As far as they know it was Nale who did all the crimes, Nale who was arrested and Nale who broke free (or maybe Nale who just kind of blew up and died).

Ah, yes. Good point. I must be half asleep.

[hungrycrow]

Ah, yes. Good point. I must be half asleep.

I thought this was all setup to a joke about them nailing not-nale.

[KorvinStarmast]

There's also a vanishingly small possibility that the Snarl did not annihilate all of the Eastern Pantheon

There's an interesting thought: the Snarl captured/kidnapped the Eastern Pantheon, rather than slew them.

[JSSheridan]

At this point, the only way Durkon might earn Redcloak's trust is to save RC's life

[Dion]

At this point, the only way Durkon might earn Redcloak's trust is to save RC's life

This is an interesting idea. I like it.

[Lexible]

Oona and Belkar will bond over animal companions during a period of her seeming collaboration with the Order of the Stick, and the nature of their interactions will help advance Belkar's shift to an alignment north of CE. Oona will viciously betray and kill Belkar as he undertakes an action that is unambiguously heroic, and possibly world-saving.

More evidence to support my prediction: Oona is a ranger.

[Peelee]

More evidence to support my prediction: Oona is a ranger.

Having the Track feat does not necessarily make one a Ranger.

[Metastachydium]

Having the Track feat does not necessarily make one a Ranger.

How about Track and an animal companion?

[Akrasiel]

Hmm...

Belkar will cast a spell.

V will start slinging 9th level spells. One of which (Disjunction) will target an artifact (at least three that have been been referenced so far).

V will lose all spellcasting abilities permanently.

[Peelee]

How about Track and an animal companion?

Druid with Track.

Granted, I do think she's a Ranger. I'm just showing how it's not conclusive.

[KorvinStarmast]

Belkar will cast a spell.

It's been done.

V will start slinging 9th level spells. One of which (Disjunction) will target an artifact (at least three that have been been referenced so far).

By the end of the book? Seems a safe bet.

V will lose all spellcasting abilities permanently.

Because of what?

[Bilbo Baggins]

This is what The Giant said about The Snarl as MacGuffin:

I know I'm a little late to the Snarl MacGuffin discussion, but that quote reads as though he's talking about the role the Snarl plays in that part of the story, during Book 5. I don't think we can conclude that the Snarl is confined to the role of MacGuffin for the rest of the story.

[understatement]

Because of what?

Disjoining objects artifacts have a chance of stripping the caster permanently of all spellcasting abilities.

[Metastachydium]

Druid with Track.

…but no spells and good at Two-Weapon Fighting.

Granted, I do think she's a Ranger. I'm just showing how it's not conclusive.

Feh, nothing ever is, nothing ever is.

[KorvinStarmast]

Disjoining objects artifacts have a chance of stripping the caster permanently of all spellcasting abilities.

Aha, there's my not much 3.5 mastery at work, thank you.

[Akrasiel]

It's been done.



Hah, totally fair. Say then that he'll do so without the added boost.

[KorvinStarmast]

It's been done.

Hah, totally fair. Say then that he'll do so without the added boost.

In which case the Order is doomed.
OK, now I know we're doomed. Belkar is acting like a Ranger

[BloodSquirrel]

I'm going to lay these out right now:

• Redcloak will die a tragic (in the classic sense) death- ie, a death brought on by his tragic flaws. This includes both his sunken cost fallacy and his specism which underlies his rhetoric about "equality". I suspect that Xykon will be the one to kill him (either directly or through a certain SoD spoiler), and that he will not redeem himself beyond (possibly) admitting that he was wrong in his dying moments and making some token contribution to killing Xykon. Redcloak will die a failure, not a hero.
• Related to the above, whatever path that goblinoid-human relations take toward betterment will not go through Redcloak. Redcloak will, before he dies, do something that causes or nearly causes catastrophic harm to the goblinoids, and it will be through rejecting Redcloak's leadership (and possibly even that of TDO) that gets the peace process started.
• There isn't going to be a perfect peace right away. What we'll see is going to be more along the lines of a truce that lays the groundwork for developing relations in the future.
• Xykon is going to have a major moment where he reveals that Redcloak has underestimated him again, which is going to lead to their relationship finally breaking. We're going to find out, at the very least, that Xykon didn't buy Redcloak's story about Tsukiko's death, and Redcloak having his phylactery isn't going to give him as much leverage over Xykon as he thinks it will.
• Xykon is also going to show that he isn't terribly committed to the plan before the end. Once he realizes that the whole thing is going to bust he's going to come up with some other plot, or reveal that he's had one waiting in the wings for some time now, and he's going to give someone a speech about not letting yourself get attached to something that's no longer useful to you, dramatically highlighting again why he's
  Spoiler: SOD

  Show

  the butch and Redcloak is the bitch.

Not completely confident in, but worth listing just in case they come through:

• The purple quibble with either come from sacrificing The Mantle or from some source other than TDO /Redcloak.

[Metastachydium]

Let's make these official: the Order will briefly work together with agents of Tiamat, the IFCC or both in the first half of the book.

[Bedinsis]

(Gee, this thread is still going? I thought it would trail off quickly but apparently people like predicting stuff.)

Latest page is as of this post #1216.

* It will turn out O-Chul and/or Lien has been keeping track of which doors actually have been cleared and which doors have only been falsely labeled as such. The Order will find this information.

[KorvinStarmast]

It will turn out O-Chul and/or Lien has been keeping track of which doors actually have been cleared and which doors have only been falsely labeled as such. The Order will find this information.

That will be cool, if it turns out that way.

[Bedinsis]

That will be cool, if it turns out that way.

Mostly it's a development that would make sense. What else were they doing for all of book 6? And Oh-Chul did gather intel on Xykon's spell slots while imprisoned so it would be in-character for him.

[Peelee]

It will turn out O-Chul and/or Lien has been keeping track of which doors actually have been cleared and which doors have only been falsely labeled as such. The Order will find this information.

Why would that matter, though? The Order isn't looking for the Gate; there's nothing they could do even if they found it. Destroying Xykon doesn't require them to get to the Gate first, that was just a convenient thing to do in the desert. In the snow, it's almost irrelevant.

[Metastachydium]

Why would that matter, though? The Order isn't looking for the Gate; there's nothing they could do even if they found it. Destroying Xykon doesn't require them to get to the Gate first, that was just a convenient thing to do in the desert. In the snow, it's almost irrelevant.

It's officially happening regardless. O-Chul wants to know where the Gate is.
Also, I could propose a a course of action where knowing the exact location of the Gate would be a useful bargaining chip, but everyone 'round here would clobber me to death for doing so, and I really don't need that right now.

[KorvinStarmast]

It's officially happening regardless. O-Chul wants to know where the Gate is.
Also, I could propose a a course of action where knowing the exact location of the Gate would be a useful bargaining chip, but everyone 'round here would clobber me to death for doing so, and I really don't need that right now.

What gate?