Predictions for book 7

[Mariele]

This is a fun thread idea. :) It'll be fun to come back to in a couple of years!

*O-Chul will die.

Nooo, O-Chul and the MitD need to have a happy ending together!

• Lirian and Dorukon will be released from Xykon's soul gem. Possibly maybe the two of them do something with the gate? They are a pair of divine and arcane casters.

I hadn't thought of this before and I really like it.

Spoilering my $0.02 because it ended up longer than I thought.

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Most of the big things have already been mentioned, but I wanted to throw these in:

• Oona and the hobgoblins side against Team Evil or are somehow important in the whole "TDO's interests and goblinkind's interests" potential conflict.
• Maybe the Order spills the beans on the Plan to Oona and the hobgoblins?
• Similar to above, we learn that TDO doesn't have goblinkind's best interests at heart. Does Redcloak? Expect to see a lot more of this.
• Redcloak talks to Durkon before the big fight
• Redcloak... umm... debuffs? (can you do that in DnD? I'm thinking of some way to remove blessings/enchantments like you can in World of Warcraft, not sure if there's an equivalent) Xykon's phylactery before the big fight as a result of reflecting on the conversation, which we'll see on screen. He Mass Heals at an important point during the fight and destroys the phylactery.
• Alternatively, Redcloak can't be persuaded in any way and we see him sticking to the Plan to the bitter end.
• Redcloak's niece.
• What is Sabine up to?
• Fyron's son.
• The Oracle will be important in some way.

And just to quickly reiterate things that I think are especially important and jumping out at me right now:

• Xykon will be completely destroyed.
• The planet inside the rift will be important and maybe even change the god's plans.
• We'll learn about Roy's plan with his archon and Elan's plan with Ian.
• Belkar will die.
• V will be redeemed.
• We'll have a showdown with the three fiends and learn what they're really about.
• We'll learn what happened to the paladins and who the invisible figures are.
• We'll learn about Serini, if she's alive, how her gate is really protected.
• We'll learn what split the order of the scribble.
• Something will go terribly wrong in this upcoming confrontation with Team Evil and they'll be forced to pursue them, maybe into the tunnels.
• We'll learn TDO's real motives.
• The MitD turns on Team Evil.
• Anything and everything to do with how persuading Redcloak goes.

[CriticalFailure]

I don’t know how much more the story could handbhold us through the “alignment based mass murder is wrong” message.

[littlebum2002]

I don’t know how much more the story could handbhold us through the “alignment based mass murder is wrong” message.

Right? Can you imagine how tedious that would be?

"We've already heard from a character who was affected by V murdering their loved one. We've already seen an entire family wiped out by Familicide whose only crime was being distantly related to someone who fell in love with a dragon. We've already seen V literally state out loud that the spell may have killed some Good dragons as well. But now we need to repeat all of those things, just slightly differently".

[b_jonas]

Very well, since you ask.

• The Giant will continue to deliver the excellent quality that we're used to from the previous books.
• Roy will defeat Xykon, but this won't happen just yet. Roy is overconfident about the schedule. Something will come up that will delay that confrontation much later in book 7.
• Book 7 is Roy's story. We already have book 6 for Durkon, book 5 for Elan and Haley, and book 4 for Vaarsuvius. Everyone in the order will take some part, but the story is eventually centered around Roy, and he's the one who has to defeat Xykon and fulfill the Blood Oath.
• We already know that Roy has much higher than average attributes. We will find out that this is because he gained superpowers from the same magical explosion that killed his brother Eric, during Eugene's magical research. This explosion did not also create or give superpowers to the MitD, because the timing doesn't work out for that: Start of Darkness shows that Redcloak and Xykon recruited the MitD years before that accident.
• The Oracle's predictions are true. Belkar will die soon and will never get resurrected. Elan will get a happy end.
• Haley is not half-Celestial, her interrupted sentence in #309 has no significance for the story, and we'll never explicitly find out from the online strips what it meant.

[littlebum2002]

Oh, wait, I have another prediction. The strip in which they finally kill Xykon will be called "Roy has 99 problems but a Lich ain't one"

[hungrycrow]

Loki is lying to Thor about how his dealings with TDO went and is secretly trying to overthrow the other gods.

I've been less sure since https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1177.html but I'll still bet my imaginary chips on it.

[CriticalFailure]

Right? Can you imagine how tedious that would be?

"We've already heard from a character who was affected by V murdering their loved one. We've already seen an entire family wiped out by Familicide whose only crime was being distantly related to someone who fell in love with a dragon. We've already seen V literally state out loud that the spell may have killed some Good dragons as well. But now we need to repeat all of those things, just slightly differently".

Clearly OOTS needs to add a whole lot of tedious moralizing if ever wants to compete with the best D&D comic of all time, Dark Dungeons.

[jwhouk]

Did anyone guess, "Rocks Fall, Everyone Dies"? Because a TPK would be a rage-quit inducing ending.

[Bedinsis]

Having slept and thought on it, I realize that I've been unreasonable. My prediction on an entity angry with Vaarsuvius' familicide appearing remains but my thoughts on the current depiction as unfulfilling is no longer here.

[littlebum2002]

Clearly OOTS needs to add a whole lot of tedious moralizing if ever wants to compete with the best D&D comic of all time, Dark Dungeons.

Have you seen the movie? It's glorious. Also, I wonder if it will ever get spoofed in-comic.

[CriticalFailure]

Have you seen the movie? It's glorious. Also, I wonder if it will ever get spoofed in-comic.

Yeah the movie was amazing! I heard that in order to make it they had to promise to be true to the source material and they basically agreed because it was so funny it was impossible to improve with satire and stuff.

[LadyEowyn]

My predictions:

- Redcloak will end up working with the protagonists to save the world. I think this because the new information provided by Thor definitively switched to plot direction from “kill bad guys, restore status quo” to “find common ground with enemies, address longstanding social injustices that endanger the fabric of the world, create a better status quo”. There were elements pointing in that direction before, but making The Dark One and/or Redcloak indispensable to the Order’s victory confirmed that plot direction in my mind. And if one of them has to help the Order, it’s more dramatic for it to be Redcloak, a major character, than The Dark One, who’s been offscreen the whole time.

- Redcloak will not die, but will face something devastating that forces him to confront the realization that his pursuit of the Plan has done great harm to his people and is not “worth it”. (Possibly the destruction of Gobbotopia by the Snarl, though I really hope not.) This may be what leads him to work with the Order. This prediction is based on the indication, from characters like Miko, that the Giant considers “redemption equals death” to be an easy way out. Redcloak’s always been willing to die for his cause; having to live with the knowledge of how much harm his choices have done his people would be far more difficult.

- The protagonists will learn about goblinoids being created as XP fodder. Roy, who is already deity-skeptical, will be disgusted. O-Chul, if we get a reaction from him (I desperately hope that we do, and that Redcloak is there to see it, but that’s more a wish than a prediction) will be furious.

- Thor’s plan will be heavily modified. Right now it’s not offering any incentives to Redcloak or TDO; it will have to be changed to offer the goblinoids equality, i.e. a major change in the metaphysical status quo. This change will make TDO a fellow “creator” of the current world, causing it to be made of 4 colours.

-Durkon, Minrah, Belkar, amd V may all be crucial to convincing Redcloak to work with the Order. Belkar’s conversations with Minrah and Durkon have dwelt heavily on the idea that making evil choices in the past doesn’t mean you have to continue yo make them, which is at the core of Redcloak’s character arc.

- Xykon, not Redcloak or TDO or the IFCC, will be the main threat; I think we have quotes from Rich to that effect.

- Eugene will not get into Celestia. All his recent appearances have been heavily pointing towards him not being Good any more - he doesn’t care about his family, he approves V’s use of genocide (whereas V, a Neutral character, is appalled and guilt-ridden), and he cares more about getting into Celestia than about the deaths of millions of people.

[understatement]

Also, I'm throwing in that

*the Order will do one final dungeon crawl for the sake of book ends. Either they'll reach the end depleted to find X and RC already setting up the ritual, or they'll follow a trail of monster corpses. The art will be amazing and the spells will be absolutely crazy-awesome.

*Redcloak will die more Miko than Kubota-style (those were the antagonist deaths I thought contrasted each other the most). No one's going to mourn, but it will be disquieting. Maybe the panel will even zoom out like

Breaking Bad spoilers:

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how Hank died in Breaking Bad

or something, with just a shot of Roy raising his sword and then bringing it down.

*Serini, if she was ever alive, will get killed by the Snarl.

Now for even crazier ones:

*The Order will go into the planet-inside-the-rift. They'll probably wander upon an Azurite woman, a goblin cleric, and a chicken for absolutely no reason.

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*Redcloak's niece will be shown living among some of the bugbears. There'll be more references to her mysterious dad than you can shake a stick at, essentially a loving tribute to those who read SOD, but her character can stand on its own in the comic.

*Elan will play heavy death metal songs.

*O-Chul will be killed by Redcloak. The goblin himself will be killed courtesy of Xykon's meteor swarms. Like, two of them.

[JonahFalcon]

Elan will have a happy ending, meaning it'll be thematically perfect. It doesn't mean he won't die -- it just means it'll be so dramatic he'll shed a tear in happiness.

[CriticalFailure]

- Redcloak will not die, but will face something devastating that forces him to confront the realization that his pursuit of the Plan has done great harm to his people and is not “worth it”. (Possibly the destruction of Gobbotopia by the Snarl, though I really hope not.) This may be what leads him to work with the Order. This prediction is based on the indication, from characters like Miko, that the Giant considers “redemption equals death” to be an easy way out. Redcloak’s always been willing to die for his cause; having to live with the knowledge of how much harm his choices have done his people would be far more difficult.

I’m confused how so many people are absolutely insistent that Redcloak must die, especially those who claim that he will be redeemed by sacrificing himself for the right side in the end. Like you said, he’s always been willing to die or even sacrifice his own soul for his cause.... I don’t see how him dying or sacrificing himself could be that dramatic given that he’s always considered it fairly likely and taken it in stride. It seems like a trope people really like but which doesn’t make much sense for the character. I agree that having to accept that he was wrong and accept the consequences of his actions would be a much bigger deal for Redcloak.

[Bedinsis]

[Eugene] approves V’s use of genocide

Point of order: his approval of V's actions probably had nothing to do with the familicide and everything to do with them trying to take out Xykon.

[Schroeswald]

Point of order: his approval of V's actions probably had nothing to do with the familicide and everything to do with them trying to take out Xykon.

He still approved of them, that he doesn't always approve of genocide doesn't change the fact that he did that time.

[hamishspence]

"Alarming dealings with the forces of evil" was what Eugene had been told. Assuming he read the document before burning it:

https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0664.html

he should have just found out about both the Soul Splice and Familicide.

[Bedinsis]

He still approved of them, that he doesn't always approve of genocide doesn't change the fact that he did that time.

You think he did? My read was that he didn't care either way.

[understatement]

I’m confused how so many people are absolutely insistent that Redcloak must die, especially those who claim that he will be redeemed by sacrificing himself for the right side in the end. Like you said, he’s always been willing to die or even sacrifice his own soul for his cause.... I don’t see how him dying or sacrificing himself could be that dramatic given that he’s always considered it fairly likely and taken it in stride. It seems like a trope people really like but which doesn’t make much sense for the character. I agree that having to accept that he was wrong and accept the consequences of his actions would be a much bigger deal for Redcloak.

I think he'd be willing to go down that path (I can't imagine him blowing up the gate just because he lost, although I totally can imagine Xykon doing that), but I'm just thinking that...why would the heroes let him walk away? O-Chul and Haley definitely wouldn't, especially after what he did to Azure City. But killing him despite not knowing the full extent of his development (and how much he had to go through to become so straight-edged Evil) also feels off-putting, sort of like how Nale died. The only character who knows the absolute lows and sufferings of Redcloak's character? Xykon.

So voila, he's going to be eating spells from Xykon.

these are all my opinions

[LadyEowyn]

If the choice is between “world is destroyed” and “world survives, with goblinoid equality, Redcloak goes back and lives in Gobbotopia, any Azurites in Gobbotopia are released”, I’m confident O-Chul would go for it.

Fighting for vengeance when peace is possible isn’t characteristic of him, based on How The Paladin Got His Scar.

And in order to achieve peace, the protagonists are going to need to make some concessions because Redcloak and TDO are the only people capable of saving the world.

That’s why the new information provided by Thor was so pivotal, and is so exciting to me.

[Peelee]

If the choice is between “world is destroyed” and “world survives, with goblinoid equality, Redcloak goes back and lives in Gobbotopia, any Azurites in Gobbotopia are released”, I’m confident O-Chul would go for it.

Fighting for vengeance when peace is possible isn’t characteristic of him, based on How The Paladin Got His Scar.

And in order to achieve peace, the protagonists are going to need to make some concessions because Redcloak and TDO are the only people capable of saving the world.

That’s why the new information provided by Thor was so pivotal, and is so exciting to me.

I wholly agree with nearly everything here. The only part I question is, what concessions are the protagonists in position to give?

[LadyEowyn]

That’s the challenge, because somehow they have to get the gods to make the concessions - namely, the major concession of agreeing that goblinoids should have (on a metaphysical/gameplay level, and possibly on a sociopolitical level, though Gobbotopia seems to be handling the latter) equality with the other species. How they do that, I have no idea.

That concession is what Redcloak and TDO want, and the need for that change is in line with the author’s stated principles.

And that’s also why I expect Redcloak to live, because if he gains that concession, he wins. He’s always been willing to die for that. So for it to not just be a simple win for him, he also needs to realize that he was wrong in his methods and got a lot of his people killed unnecessarily, and he has to live with that.

[CriticalFailure]

I think he'd be willing to go down that path (I can't imagine him blowing up the gate just because he lost, although I totally can imagine Xykon doing that), but I'm just thinking that...why would the heroes let him walk away? O-Chul and Haley definitely wouldn't, especially after what he did to Azure City. But killing him despite not knowing the full extent of his development (and how much he had to go through to become so straight-edged Evil) also feels off-putting, sort of like how Nale died. The only character who knows the absolute lows and sufferings of Redcloak's character? Xykon.

So voila, he's going to be eating spells from Xykon.

these are all my opinions

I mean, I don’t think being forced to not take vengeance on someone who deserves it in order to breakthrough cycle and get everyone cooperating is that out of the question. Sure the Order would like to see Redcloak dead for his crimes but it might be more productive to do something else.

[Emanick]

Maybe the panel will even zoom out like

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how Hank died in Breaking Bad

If you're going to put something in spoilers, you might want to mention what it's spoiling, so that people know whether or not to click on it (for instance, I've read Start of Darkness but haven't watched Breaking Bad yet, so I'll generally click on spoilers concerning the former but not the latter). Just a thought.

Anyway, here are my predictions (mostly unambitious, and mostly negative ones, since I'm much better at predicting what won't happen than what will):

* The Astral Plane fortress-tomb thing will never be visited, at least not to any significant degree. It's a red herring, nothing more.

* The planet inside The Snarl also won't be visited. If it is, it'll be brief. Exploring it will not become part of the plot, although its existence will be crucial to the story's resolution.

* Gobbotopia will not be destroyed. It will remain as a permanent part of the post-narrative world.

* Belkar will die for real, permanently.

* Serini is alive, and will tell the Order the full story behind the Scribblers' dissolution.

* The Scribblers found out about the planet inside The Snarl, or at the very least Kraagor did. That's how the Order will also find out.

* Redcloak will go against The Dark One's wishes to seal the rift with TDO's quiddity.

* O-Chul will survive the story. So will everyone else in the Order besides Belkar.

* V will either embark upon a quest to make what reparations s/he can at the story's conclusion, or will lose hir spellcasting powers and reunite with Inkyrius.

* Tarquin won't be killed. After being defeated off-panel, he'll wind up in prison for the rest of his days. Amun-Zora will be the new head of state over whatever political arrangement replaces the Empires of Blood, Sweat and Tears.

* Elan and Haley will get married, because that's a happy ending and Elan is guaranteed one.

"Alarming dealings with the forces of evil" was what Eugene had been told. Assuming he read the document before burning it:

https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0664.html

he should have just found out about both the Soul Splice and Familicide.

It looks like he burned the document immediately, without reading it.

He actually probably doesn't know about Familicide. Odds are that he wasn't scrying on V until V rejoined the rest of the party. He absolutely could have been, of course, but I'm having trouble thinking of why he would have been watching V sit on a desert island, or why he would have switched to watching V in the short period between when the ABD arrived and when V rejoined the party.

[Peelee]

for instance, I've read Start of Darkness but haven't watched Breaking Bad yet

For what it's worth, I'm enjoying Better Call Saul far more. I did start watching that before BB (frankly, it being so good is the only reason I watched BB to begin with), so I can also attest that you don't need to watch BB before BCS to enjoy BCS. That all being said, you do you, however you decide to watch or not is the right choice for you.

Oh, also, yeah. Labelling what is being spoiled is helpful.

[understatement]

If you're going to put something in spoilers, you might want to mention what it's spoiling, so that people know whether or not to click on it (for instance, I've read Start of Darkness but haven't watched Breaking Bad yet, so I'll generally click on spoilers concerning the former but not the latter). Just a thought.

Oh. Uh, whoops. Sorry about that. It's still a really good show? and if you planned to watch it hopefully don't be deterred by that because there's plenty of great things still going on in it.

BB spoilers:

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In my very weak not-defense, I knew how Walt, Gus, and Hank were going to die before I watched it, but I still found the show very enjoyable. So, uh, yeah. Sorry again.

For what it's worth, I'm enjoying Better Call Saul far more. I did start watching that before BB (frankly, it being so good is the only reason I watched BB to begin with), so I can also attest that you don't need to watch BB before BCS to enjoy BCS. That all being said, you do you, however you decide to watch or not is the right choice for you.

Or that, yeah. I second this.

I mean, I don’t think being forced to not take vengeance on someone who deserves it in order to breakthrough cycle and get everyone cooperating is that out of the question. Sure the Order would like to see Redcloak dead for his crimes but it might be more productive to do something else.

I definitely think that the Order will set aside whatever vengeance they have to work with Redcloak. I don't know about the aftermath, though (assuming RC isn't going to get shishmeteroswarmedenergydrainedsnarledkebabed in the upcoming battle). I don't know if they would kill someone that was a really important temporary ally, but also really deserves some justice.

Clearly the answer is to call Celia again!

[Emanick]

Oh. Uh, whoops. Sorry about that. It's still a really good show? and if you planned to watch it hopefully don't be deterred by that because there's plenty of great things still going on in it.

No worries. I definitely plan to watch it anyway; I've been sold on it ever since my fellow English majors in college gushed about it being structured like a five-act Shakespearean tragedy, with each act roughly corresponding to a season. (Also lots of other stuff, of course - it's not that I care more about Shakespearean structure than great drama or storytelling or compelling characters, but that was the kicker that tipped the show into the "okay, gotta see this" category.)

For what it's worth, I'm enjoying Better Call Saul far more. I did start watching that before BB (frankly, it being so good is the only reason I watched BB to begin with), so I can also attest that you don't need to watch BB before BCS to enjoy BCS. That all being said, you do you, however you decide to watch or not is the right choice for you.

Oh, also, yeah. Labelling what is being spoiled is helpful.

Good to know! I've generally heard people say more positive things about Breaking Bad than Better Call Saul, so I'm pleased to hear it praised in its own right.

That said, I was definitely going to watch it anyway, if only for Mark Proksch, whom I've been a huge fan of for ages. I got to have lunch with him once; one of the nicest guys ever.

I definitely think that the Order will set aside whatever vengeance they have to work with Redcloak. I don't know about the aftermath, though (assuming RC isn't going to get shishmeteroswarmedenergydrainedsnarledkebabed in the upcoming battle). I don't know if they would kill someone that was a really important temporary ally, but also really deserves some justice.

Clearly the answer is to call Celia again!

For what it's worth, in Girard's uber-illusion the Order was fine with just taking Redcloak prisoner, and since then the only thing that's really changed is that they now have a very compelling reason to keep him alive. I think they'll be okay with letting him live - they won't be happy if he ends up walking free entirely, but at their core the Order is basically a group of pragmatists, so I imagine they'll allow it if they have to. Haley might have a hard time with it, but she'll likely be able to live with it.

[b_jonas]

* The planet inside The Snarl also won't be visited. If it is, it'll be brief. Exploring it will not become part of the plot, although its existence will be crucial to the story's resolution.

You mean the goblinoids get their very own planet where the humans won't hunt them? That would be a weird anime-like ending.

[Bedinsis]

* We won't find out Vaarsuvius gender.