Predictions for book 7

[Vrock Bait]

• The lizard vampire that turned Durkon will be punished and killed, but not necessary by Order

About that.... Nale killed Malack a while ago already.

[Edreyn]

About that.... Nale killed Malack a while ago already.

I have a bad memory then.
Thanks for telling me.

[Vrock Bait]

I have a bad memory then.
Thanks for telling me.

Don’t worry about it, I hadn’t realized that the Frontarch of Hel was a different character from Poncho Lady until I re-read the arc for the third time.

[TheNecrocomicon]

Are you assuming the voices are on Team Good or Team Evil in this situation?

Neither. To paraphrase Treebeard, they are on no one's side, because no one is on their side. At least, not yet.

• Belkar will survive. Prophecy will unfold in some unexpected way, without him actually dying. Neither he will become a deity, vampire or another creature. Oracle will be upset or angry, but won't be able to do anything.

I just had a bizarre thought. What if "take his last breath -- ever" (the only phrase that was officially "on the record" by the Oracle) means commit his last murder, ever? That Belkar, originally the unrepentant murderer, cements his character arc and alignment shift by giving up killing forever?

I know it's improbable, but it isn't out of the question. And it would be awesome.

[Peelee]

I just had a bizarre thought. What if "take his last breath -- ever" (the only phrase that was officially "on the record" by the Oracle) means commit his last murder, ever? That Belkar, originally the unrepentant murderer, cements his character arc and alignment shift by giving up killing forever?

I know it's improbable, but it isn't out of the question. And it would be awesome.

The rest of the comments wouldn't be addressed by that.

[TheNecrocomicon]

The rest of the comments wouldn't be addressed by that.

Receiving or undertaking exile to somewhere (perhaps said Snarlworld) where there are no IRAs, birthday cakes or "this world" would take care of the rest, underwater or terrestrial then being of no consequence.

[Peelee]

Receiving or undertaking exile to somewhere (perhaps said Snarlworld) where there are no IRAs, birthday cakes or "this world" would take care of the rest, underwater or terrestrial then being of no consequence.

True, but fairly tortuous.

[Edreyn]

That's how it will be. The Order will make a surprise party to Belkar's birthday, which will be just one day before the end of the year. To make him really happy, they will prepare a unique present, buy for him one of a kind blade named "His Last Breath Ever". They won't bother checking what it is exactly, just wrap it as a present.

Belkar will enter the room, everyone will shout "Surprise!" then Roy will give him the present. Belkar will happily draw the "His Last Breath Ever" from it's scabbard... just to find out it's generic kitchen knife. He'll be angry, but before he actually says something, Haley will bring in the cake- a true masterpece made by greatest confectioner in stick-world. Since Belkar is already holding kitchen knife, he'll decide to cut the cake with it. As the "His Last Breath Ever" touches the cake, the cake will turn into a diamond! Belkar will try the knife on other food, and everything will turn to diamonds! But when Belkar touches food with another item, or with his hands, it will remain edible. Only the magic knife "His Last Breath Ever"turns things to diamonds. Belkar will be very happy, possessing such an item, he will never have to worry about saving money for old age! No need to worry about IRA, ever! Who cares that he won't savior his birthday cake. And also, no one will ever mock him that he isn't as long as other characters in same world.

[Turin_19]

That's how it will be. The Order will make a surprise party to Belkar's birthday, which will be just one day before the end of the year. To make him really happy, they will prepare a unique present, buy for him one of a kind blade named "His Last Breath Ever". They won't bother checking what it is exactly, just wrap it as a present.

Belkar will enter the room, everyone will shout "Surprise!" then Roy will give him the present. Belkar will happily draw the "His Last Breath Ever" from it's scabbard... just to find out it's generic kitchen knife. He'll be angry, but before he actually says something, Haley will bring in the cake- a true masterpece made by greatest confectioner in stick-world. Since Belkar is already holding kitchen knife, he'll decide to cut the cake with it. As the "His Last Breath Ever" touches the cake, the cake will turn into a diamond! Belkar will try the knife on other food, and everything will turn to diamonds! But when Belkar touches food with another item, or with his hands, it will remain edible. Only the magic knife "His Last Breath Ever"turns things to diamonds. Belkar will be very happy, possessing such an item, he will never have to worry about saving money for old age! No need to worry about IRA, ever! Who cares that he won't savior his birthday cake. And also, no one will ever mock him that he isn't as long as other characters in same world.

Best. Theory. Ever.

Hoping hard it plays out exactly like this!

[DavidBV]

Let's play Elan for a minute here.

Happy ending (for Elan at least) implies:

-World won't be destroyed. He would never consider that a happy ending. this is also narratively reinforced by loose ends, like the "plan" to end Tarquin's rule that would become pointless.

-Haley survives. D'uh.

-Most of the order survives. Belkar is obviously gonna die, but there's still the possibility of another member dying and Elan still consider it a "mostly happy" ending. For instance if Roy dies but is considered the greatest hero ever.

Now, unrelated to the above: there will be a new cosmic balance, in which the Gods have a different role. Maybe the world inside the rift is a world no longer ruled by gods and magic, but by the laws of physics, much like ours. Maybe a world where someone like Roy, always rational and non-religious, would be happy. I see it as a possibility that some order members like Roy could move there permanently while others remain, becoming separated at the ending, forever. This would kind of mirror the emotional impact of the end of The Lord of the Rings, when Frodo leaves the Middle-Earth.

Also there's the matter of goblinoid races, gobbotopia and Redcloak. Redcloak won't live to see his plan fulfilled. He's too far gone, has made too many mistakes, from a story point of view there can't be a happy ending for him, I think. But Rich may yet redeem him... I was very surprised by Thor's request to Durkon and I'm very curious to see how it unfolds.

[Schroeswald]

I'd say that there are two things I think I know about Redcloak's ending:

1. Redcloak was wrong. Almost everything he's done since he got the Crimson Mantle will have been for nothing, most of it counterproductive in fact, especially that thing he did at the end of SOD that I'm too lazy to spoil.

2. Redcloak will win. Not necessarily the man, I think its immensely plausible for him to die, perhaps even without helping the goblins, but the gods will go to the negotiation table and the goblins will improve their situation.

Now, I know this doesn't actually say where he is and his status as alive or dead, thats a lot less guessable, but I think that this, despite it being pretty hard for both to happen, is what Rich is going for with his story.

[Edreyn]

Happy ending (for Elan at least) implies:

-World won't be destroyed. He would never consider that a happy ending.

Remember Narnia series ending? World was absolutely and fully destroyed, and all protagonists died, but the author still says that everyone got a happy ending. I won't even try to guess why.

[F.Harr]

* The fiends weren't trying to hold Vaaruvius, but Blackwing. It's just that V was the only way they could hold the bird back.

* We meet the people Durkon almost recruited way back in Origin.

* We learn Redcloak's name.

* We see Nale's afterlife.

* Belkar dies saving V.

* V begins to make amends with their mate.

* Bloodfeast brings the extreme.

* Redcloak's hard to convince, but Durkon does it.

* In a surprise turnaround, Dorunkan and Lirien have a role.

* Team Evil is not defeated in open battle, but something more subtle.

* Hinjo finds an agreement with Jirix.

* When Xykon dies, he's happy it's finally over. Maybe he can finally get coffee.

[Peelee]

* We meet the people Durkon almost recruited way back in Origin.

* We learn Redcloak's name.

* We see Nale's afterlife.

I'll take those bets.

[F.Harr]

Any part of a nickle.

Don’t worry about it, I hadn’t realized that the Frontarch of Hel was a different character from Poncho Lady until I re-read the arc for the third time.

It's hard to know.

I like the title "Frontarch".

* Sara welcomes Eugene into the afterlife. Not that they stay together, she just still cares.

[LadyEowyn]

I'd say that there are two things I think I know about Redcloak's ending:

1. Redcloak was wrong. Almost everything he's done since he got the Crimson Mantle will have been for nothing, most of it counterproductive in fact, especially that thing he did at the end of SOD that I'm too lazy to spoil.

2. Redcloak will win. Not necessarily the man, I think its immensely plausible for him to die, perhaps even without helping the goblins, but the gods will go to the negotiation table and the goblins will improve their situation.

Now, I know this doesn't actually say where he is and his status as alive or dead, thats a lot less guessable, but I think that this, despite it being pretty hard for both to happen, is what Rich is going for with his story.

I agree with both these things, though I rather expect Redcloak to live.

[Oddstar]

The Oracle does not like Belkar and seems pleased he will be gone soon. Why would he be pleased for Belkar being underwater?

The Oracle is a jerk. He likes messing with people, either by giving them answers that are true but useless or true but misleading. Tricking Roy into thinking that Belkar would die soon would be right up his alley.

I have another prediction. I don't really believe this one, but I'm going with it anyway. At some point, someone, maybe Durkon, maybe someone else, is going to cast Regenerate on Elan. As far as I can remember, Elan has never had Regenerate cast on him. Why does this matter? Because it was strongly implied that Elan's low intelligence is the result of a traumatic brain injury inflicted by his brother when they were infants. A Regenerate spell, which causes "ruined organs [to] grow back", would presumably repair Elan's traumatic brain injury, leading to a considerable increase in intelligence. Again, I don't really think this will happen, but I think it's funny to speculate about.

[Peelee]

The Oracle is a jerk. He likes messing with people, either by giving them answers that are true but useless or true but misleading. Tricking Roy into thinking that Belkar would die soon would be right up his alley.

The Oracle took pleasure in gloating about Belkar's future constantly aside from the on-the-record prophecy to Roy. Your theory does not account for any of those comments

[Oddstar]

The Oracle took pleasure in gloating about Belkar's future constantly aside from the on-the-record prophecy to Roy. Your theory does not account for any of those comments

Ah, but the Oracle knows he's in a comic. He probably enjoys messing with us, too.

[Peelee]

Ah, but the Oracle knows he's in a comic. He probably enjoys messing with us, too.

Except he explicitly says that the entire purpose of the memory charm is because he rambles and doesn't want his off-the-cuff soothsayings to affect anything.

Not to mention "the prophecy was just a joke, at Roy's and the readers' expense" would be one heck of an unsatisfying conclusion.

[hungrycrow]

Not to mention "the prophecy was just a joke, at Roy's and the readers' expense" would be one heck of an unsatisfying conclusion.

I'm not sure Roy would care all that much if he realized the prophecy was false. He wasn't super invested in Belkar's death, and their relationship seems to be getting better.

The audience are the only people who would care if the prophecy was a trick.

[Peelee]

I'm not sure Roy would care all that much if he realized the prophecy was false. He wasn't super invested in Belkar's death, and their relationship seems to be getting better.

The audience are the only people who would care if the prophecy was a trick.

I'm not saying it would be unsatisfactory for Roy. I'm saying the Oracle lying to Roy for seemingly no reason other than to manufacture drama in the readership's minds would be unsatisfactory, in addition to lying directly to the audience for the same reason would also be unsatisfactory. Roy's thoughts on it would be neither here nor there.

Hence, I find any theory relying on "the Oracle lied" to not hold very much water.

[Oddstar]

I'm not saying it would be unsatisfactory for Roy. I'm saying the Oracle lying to Roy for seemingly no reason other than to manufacture drama in the readership's minds would be unsatisfactory, in addition to lying directly to the audience for the same reason would also be unsatisfactory. Roy's thoughts on it would be neither here nor there.

Hence, I find any theory relying on "the Oracle lied" to not hold very much water.

Except it wouldn't be a lie. It would be true, just in an unexpected way. And I don't think that would be unsatisfying for the audience. There is a reason why so many stories that feature prophecies have them come true in unexpected ways. People like it. I think what would be unsatisfying would be for Belkar to get killed off permanently now that he is finally having real character growth and becoming a better person.

As for the oracle not wanting his rambling to affect anything, messing with the audience would not affect anything. We exist outside the story, and we are not the author. Moreover, the Oracle knows that, because he knows we are unaffected by the memory charm, so he knows that we will remember whatever he rambles, and he is obviously not concerned about that.

[Peelee]

Except it wouldn't be a lie. It would be true, just in an unexpected way. And I don't think that would be unsatisfying for the audience. There is a reason why so many stories that feature prophecies have them come true in unexpected ways. People like it. I think what would be unsatisfying would be for Belkar to get killed off permanently now that he is finally having real character growth and becoming a better person.

As for the oracle not wanting his rambling to affect anything, messing with the audience would not affect anything. We exist outside the story, and we are not the author. Moreover, the Oracle knows that, because he knows we are unaffected by the memory charm, so he knows that we will remember whatever he rambles, and he is obviously not concerned about that.

A race of beings that have not in any way been foreshadowed, which Belkar would like to join for no reason, abandoning this world into a life where one of his greatest joys outside of killing (namely, cooking/eating) would no longer be enjoyed, all solely for the purpose of having a twist in a prophecy which adds nothing whatsoever except the twist itself, would be profoundly unsatisfactory.

As for stories where prophecies come true in unexpected ways, it's typically not "the literal meaning of the words were different than you expected" but rather "trying to evade the prophecy did not help." Oedipus, for example, still killed his father and we'd his mother. And, more to the point, in this story the prophecies the Oracle gave have all been fairly straightforward, so it out be a radical outlier - and, at that, a radical outlier for no reason whatsoever other than for the sake of a twist.

Sorry, I just don't buy it.

[Oddstar]

A race of beings that have not in any way been foreshadowed, which Belkar would like to join for no reason, abandoning this world into a life where one of his greatest joys outside of killing (namely, cooking/eating) would no longer be enjoyed, all solely for the purpose of having a twist in a prophecy which adds nothing whatsoever except the twist itself, would be profoundly unsatisfactory.

As for stories where prophecies come true in unexpected ways, it's typically not "the literal meaning of the words were different than you expected" but rather "trying to evade the prophecy did not help." Oedipus, for example, still killed his father and we'd his mother. And, more to the point, in this story the prophecies the Oracle gave have all been fairly straightforward, so it out be a radical outlier - and, at that, a radical outlier for no reason whatsoever other than for the sake of a twist.

Sorry, I just don't buy it.

The prophecies from the Oracle have been anything but straightforward. Telling Durkon that he would return to the dwarven lands "posthumously", (which would literally mean after being buried, which he never was) which implies that he would return as a corpse, when in fact he returned as an undead abomination, is anything but straightforward. Telling Vaarsuvius that he would achieve ultimate arcane power "[b]y saying the right four words to the right being at the right time for all the wrong reasons" implies that Vaarsuvius would say those words to someone else, not to himself. Telling Haley that, to be cured of her speech impediment, she should not look the gift horse in the mouth when he comes calling, is, frankly, so generic as to be all but meaningless.

And the possibility of a prophecy twist with Belkar has been foreshadowed, at least a little. First, it has been foreshadowed that, at some point, the Order will travel to the Riftworld, and we have been told pretty expressly that the Riftworld--if it is the first world, or, indeed, any of the previous worlds--is filled with beings very different from the ones in the Stickworld. And consider as well what Minrah told Belkar: "When you make a change, everyone who meets you from that point on? Only knows the new version of you. And that's nice." That sounds to me like foreshadowing that Belkar might end up in a completely new social milieu where no one knows the old Belkar. They would only ever know the new, changed Belkar.

And that brings me to another point: it would not be for no reason. Far from it. It would be to give a satisfying conclusion to Belkar's character arc. He is a changed man. He is a very different person than he was before Durkon died. He is not faking character growth now. He has become a much better person. If character is destiny, then a change in his character should indeed change his fate.

Finally, you have given the example of Oedipus where the oracle came true exactly how it was said, but I think there are some more relevant examples where oracles came true in unexpected ways. Consider the prophecy that Durkon would bring "death and destruction" when he returned home. Well, the death was what everyone thought it would be, but the destruction, it turns out, was not a bad thing at all. It was his destruction of the ceiling to the meeting hall and of the meeting table that foiled Hel's plot and saved the dwarves and the whole world. Or consider all the predictions from the Oracle I mentioned above. Vaarsuvius had ultimate arcane power, but then he lost it. The "gift horse" Haley was not supposed to question was Nale, and he was plotting to kill her. And again, Durkon did return home no longer alive, but there was clearly a twist there as well. Even "When the goat turns red strikes true" had a twist; the Order thought it was a reference to the chimera, but it turned out to mean that Haley would roll a natural 20 shooting at Nale. I think it's fair to say that Rich Burlew has a pattern of liking prophecy twists. Does that necessarily mean that there will be a twist in this one? Of course not. If there is, will it even resemble my prediction? That's even less likely. But there are good reasons to think that there might be. If you don't buy it, you could turn out to be completely right, and I could turn out to be completely wrong.

[woweedd]

The prophecies from the Oracle have been anything but straightforward. Telling Durkon that he would return to the dwarven lands "posthumously", (which would literally mean after being buried, which he never was) which implies that he would return as a corpse, when in fact he returned as an undead abomination, is anything but straightforward. Telling Vaarsuvius that he would achieve ultimate arcane power "[b]y saying the right four words to the right being at the right time for all the wrong reasons" implies that Vaarsuvius would say those words to someone else, not to himself. Telling Haley that, to be cured of her speech impediment, she should not look the gift horse in the mouth when he comes calling, is, frankly, so generic as to be all but meaningless.

And the possibility of a prophecy twist with Belkar has been foreshadowed, at least a little. First, it has been foreshadowed that, at some point, the Order will travel to the Riftworld, and we have been told pretty expressly that the Riftworld--if it is the first world, or, indeed, any of the previous worlds--is filled with beings very different from the ones in the Stickworld. And consider as well what Minrah told Belkar: "When you make a change, everyone who meets you from that point on? Only knows the new version of you. And that's nice." That sounds to me like foreshadowing that Belkar might end up in a completely new social milieu where no one knows the old Belkar. They would only ever know the new, changed Belkar.

And that brings me to another point: it would not be for no reason. Far from it. It would be to give a satisfying conclusion to Belkar's character arc. He is a changed man. He is a very different person than he was before Durkon died. He is not faking character growth now. He has become a much better person. If character is destiny, then a change in his character should indeed change his fate.

Finally, you have given the example of Oedipus where the oracle came true exactly how it was said, but I think there are some more relevant examples where oracles came true in unexpected ways. Consider the prophecy that Durkon would bring "death and destruction" when he returned home. Well, the death was what everyone thought it would be, but the destruction, it turns out, was not a bad thing at all. It was his destruction of the ceiling to the meeting hall and of the meeting table that foiled Hel's plot and saved the dwarves and the whole world. Or consider all the predictions from the Oracle I mentioned above. Vaarsuvius had ultimate arcane power, but then he lost it. The "gift horse" Haley was not supposed to question was Nale, and he was plotting to kill her. And again, Durkon did return home no longer alive, but there was clearly a twist there as well. Even "When the goat turns red strikes true" had a twist; the Order thought it was a reference to the chimera, but it turned out to mean that Haley would roll a natural 20 shooting at Nale. I think it's fair to say that Rich Burlew has a pattern of liking prophecy twists. Does that necessarily mean that there will be a twist in this one? Of course not. If there is, will it even resemble my prediction? That's even less likely. But there are good reasons to think that there might be. If you don't buy it, you could turn out to be completely right, and I could turn out to be completely wrong.

Posthumously does actually just mean "after you die", V would count as a being, and "don't a look a gift horse in the mouth is a stock phrase meaning to not examine a gift or kindness too closely, which is what solved it.

[hungrycrow]

I'm not saying it would be unsatisfactory for Roy. I'm saying the Oracle lying to Roy for seemingly no reason other than to manufacture drama in the readership's minds would be unsatisfactory, in addition to lying directly to the audience for the same reason would also be unsatisfactory. Roy's thoughts on it would be neither here nor there.

Hence, I find any theory relying on "the Oracle lied" to not hold very much water.

Sorry to be unclear, i was agreeing with you. I think it would be silly to have all this build-up for something that no one in-story would even notice.

If Roy did care about the prophecy, or bothered to tell Belkar, then there could actually be an interesting payoff when they see the twist. As it is now though, learning it was a lie would be pretty underwhelming.

[Linneris]

Finally, you have given the example of Oedipus where the oracle came true exactly how it was said, but I think there are some more relevant examples where oracles came true in unexpected ways. Consider the prophecy that Durkon would bring "death and destruction" when he returned home. Well, the death was what everyone thought it would be, but the destruction, it turns out, was not a bad thing at all. It was his destruction of the ceiling to the meeting hall and of the meeting table that foiled Hel's plot and saved the dwarves and the whole world. Or consider all the predictions from the Oracle I mentioned above. Vaarsuvius had ultimate arcane power, but then he lost it. The "gift horse" Haley was not supposed to question was Nale, and he was plotting to kill her. And again, Durkon did return home no longer alive, but there was clearly a twist there as well. Even "When the goat turns red strikes true" had a twist; the Order thought it was a reference to the chimera, but it turned out to mean that Haley would roll a natural 20 shooting at Nale. I think it's fair to say that Rich Burlew has a pattern of liking prophecy twists. Does that necessarily mean that there will be a twist in this one? Of course not. If there is, will it even resemble my prediction? That's even less likely. But there are good reasons to think that there might be. If you don't buy it, you could turn out to be completely right, and I could turn out to be completely wrong.

One prophecy admittedly had a pretty straightforward resolution: Belkar killed the Oracle, making the prophecy self-fulfilling. Though probably few expected it to play out in that specific way.

But yes, I expect a twist to the "Belkar will draw his last breath ever" prophecy. And probably one that will catch people off guard.

[Bedinsis]

it has been foreshadowed that, at some point, the Order will travel to the Riftworld

What? Where?

[Ron Miel]

The existence of the riftworld is a mystery within the strip. The order know it exists, but not what it is. It will be resolved before the end. It would be surprising if the Stickies don't actually go there at some point.