Questionable Content XVI: Yes, Butt

[Radar]

Dora (soon): "So why was he worried a false word would get me to call of my wedding? Does he know something that I don't? And knows that if he reveals it, I would call it off? But if it's so bad, why would he not tell me? Is he involved? Is it related to the girl he just broke up with? Is it Tai? Did he sleep with Tai? How long has that been going on? It must have been a long time if he considered it "seeing each other"! OMG I'm such a fool, I'll call off the wedding right now!"

I really hope not. We had enough of that kind of drama from her.

This possibility did remind me of this scene from Dr Who. Particular words or facts do not matter - just the images and ideas that form in someone's mind.

[Morquard]

Yes, to be honest, I don't think that will happen. She might go through the first part of it, but then she either gets stopped by someone or stops herself, before she goes too far into that rabbit hole. In earlier days of the comic though...

[Radar]

Yes, to be honest, I don't think that will happen. She might go through the first part of it, but then she either gets stopped by someone or stops herself, before she goes too far into that rabbit hole. In earlier days of the comic though...

During her relationship with Marten? That would spin out of control. She did get therapy later on, so it would be super uncharacteristic for her to descend into paranoia like that.

[Wraith]

...So... In the context of being an AI and everything... We've just walked in on Roko masturbating furiously, right? There's not another way to interpret her glazed expression and pile of used 'inspiration', or do I just have a filthy mind?

[eee]

...So... In the context of being an AI and everything... We've just walked in on Roko masturbating furiously, right? There's not another way to interpret her glazed expression and pile of used 'inspiration', or do I just have a filthy mind?

More like the after-effects of a prolonged session. She's going to have trouble getting all those crumbs out of the couch. But it is good she's making such progress in resolving her body disassociation issues.

[Keltest]

...So... In the context of being an AI and everything... We've just walked in on Roko masturbating furiously, right? There's not another way to interpret her glazed expression and pile of used 'inspiration', or do I just have a filthy mind?

No, that was where my mind went as well.

[Max_Killjoy]

More like the after-effects of a prolonged session. She's going to have trouble getting all those crumbs out of the couch. But it is good she's making such progress in resolving her body disassociation issues.

Yeah, I read this as more of a "morning after" than "in flagrante delicto".


As for today's comic... every time Squidbot shows up, her assumed name seems more sarcastic... "yaaaaay".

[Willie the Duck]

...So... In the context of being an AI and everything... We've just walked in on Roko masturbating furiously, right? There's not another way to interpret her glazed expression and pile of used 'inspiration', or do I just have a filthy mind?

Jeph drawing Roko with bread present is pretty deliberate implied use-of-sex(uality)-in-story.

Yeah, I read this as more of a "morning after" than "in flagrante delicto".

Ditto. Roko fell asleep (/however it actually works for her) with a bunch of her funtime lying about and suddenly a knock on the door... it's a funny but pointless side-gag.

As for today's comic... every time Squidbot shows up, her assumed name seems more sarcastic... "yaaaaay".

Yeah, Jeph seems dead set on making Yay insufferable, even as people in-comic have started to see them as a social contact rather than walking Deus Ex Machina. It seems there must be some end goal, but I don't know what (they drive Roko nuts until she unloads on them, and everyone learns a valuable lesson about boundaries?).

[Wraith]

Yeah, I read this as more of a "morning after" than "in flagrante delicto".

Well... good? I found it hard to tell as her left hand is still in the bag, so I wasn't sure if she was just slumped there, or if she were actively reaching in to prepare for 'round 2' as it were....

I mean, good for her, and all that. It was just an unexpectedly crude portrayal of a character first thing on a Monday morning

[Willie the Duck]

I mean, good for her, and all that. It was just an unexpectedly crude portrayal of a character first thing on a Monday morning

I get the feeling that part of the fun for Jeph with this 'everyday item as a sexual fixation' character trait is that he gets to make some pretty strident sexual gags, but them still seeming fairly sanitized. Obviously 'sexuality everywhere' strips like Oglaf get to do whatever they want*, and even something like Girls With Slingshots probably would just have sex toys in the background (or foreground) as needed, but for QC this is vaguely 'naughty-but-safe.'
*without violating peoples' expectations, that is. Obviously any of them can do anything they want.

[Traab]

Jeph drawing Roko with bread present is pretty deliberate implied use-of-sex(uality)-in-story.


Ditto. Roko fell asleep (/however it actually works for her) with a bunch of her funtime lying about and suddenly a knock on the door... it's a funny but pointless side-gag.


Yeah, Jeph seems dead set on making Yay insufferable, even as people in-comic have started to see them as a social contact rather than walking Deus Ex Machina. It seems there must be some end goal, but I don't know what (they drive Roko nuts until she unloads on them, and everyone learns a valuable lesson about boundaries?).

I think the boundaries thing is absolutely the point. Jeph seems to be trying to turn Yay into a real character. In the abstract its a fascinating idea. A godlike being learning how to be "human" Sort of like that episode of star trek tng where Q was made mortal and he had to learn how to deal with things like hunger and back pain and nightly periods of unconsciousness. (also being stabbed by whoopi goldberg) In fact, its a lot like that. Both are insufferable jerks used to lording their power over any foolish enough to try to oppose them. Now she has to learn about things like the social contract where just because you are capable of doing something doesnt make it ok. Like ooooh I dunno, taking over your "friends" entire storage space for your personal and somewhat random shopping spree?

[Agi Hammerthief]

...So... In the context of being an AI and everything... We've just walked in on Roko masturbating furiously, right? There's not another way to interpret her glazed expression and pile of used 'inspiration', or do I just have a filthy mind?

why „or“

[Wraith]

Sort of like that episode of star trek tng where Q was made mortal and he had to learn how to deal with things like hunger and back pain and nightly periods of unconsciousness. (also being stabbed by whoopi goldberg) In fact, its a lot like that. Both are insufferable jerks used to lording their power over any foolish enough to try to oppose them. Now she has to learn about things like the social contract where just because you are capable of doing something doesnt make it ok.

I think the problem is that Yay still has all that power - they have given up a fortune in money but that hasn't made the slightest bit of difference to their existence. They're just "slumming it" until they decide that they no longer feel like being restricted and go back to being an omnipotent billionaire. There's no feeling that they are there for their own betterment, or for that of Roko or the rest of the crew, just that they are amusing themselves temporarily.

why "or“

That's fair.

[Morquard]

I think the problem is that Yay still has all that power - they have given up a fortune in money but that hasn't made the slightest bit of difference to their existence. They're just "slumming it" until they decide that they no longer feel like being restricted and go back to being an omnipotent billionaire. There's no feeling that they are there for their own betterment, or for that of Roko or the rest of the crew, just that they are amusing themselves temporarily.

It's not even just that. We know Yay (or the Entity that Yay belongs to) is a distributed AI that exists in multiple bodies at the same time, and possibly in multiple virtual environments too. One of those bodies is slumming it, all the others are still very much doing their god stuff, I assume.

[Traab]

I think the problem is that Yay still has all that power - they have given up a fortune in money but that hasn't made the slightest bit of difference to their existence. They're just "slumming it" until they decide that they no longer feel like being restricted and go back to being an omnipotent billionaire. There's no feeling that they are there for their own betterment, or for that of Roko or the rest of the crew, just that they are amusing themselves temporarily.



That's fair.

They didnt really give it up, iirc didnt they take it from random bad people through computer banking shenanigans in the first place? And I dunno, yay seems pretty interested in learning to be less of an unapproachable digital god. The fact that yay still has all that power makes it even more interesting as this is all a choice on yays part to become more of a socially acceptable being, able to relate to us lesser creatures better or whatever.

[DaLucaray]

I see this as encroaching on the xenofiction level of post-singularity storytelling. 99% of the robots we've seen have been functionally humans with chips for brains; Yaaaay is very much not that- a sort of mindnet that I think is implied to be inherently created of and existing in like, the wider telecommunications network.

Saying "this story doesn't have stakes" is a bit missing the point in that case- the focus isn't seeing whether or not they will succeed in stuff that involves money or tech power- the focus exploring this alien existence. And even then, we have stakes- will they earn Roko's trust and friendship? If they fail to integrate into Reef Fish society, how will that make them feel? Will they get caught? They clearly have some reason not to want that. It's the classic Superman mistake of assuming that, because a character has the powers of a superstrong demigod, there's no stakes in the story. The thing is you're ignoring intrapersonal drama, which has always been the focus of QC since "Crass Pintsize" jokes stopped being the main support beam of the comic about 10 pages in.

And, yannow, if you think a character with insane wealth and technology at their disposal "slumming it out" is boring... Hannelore has fit that description since pretty much Day 1 of her character, just on a smaller scale.

[DaLucaray]

Have we seen that Roko Disney pic before or is that new?

[Wraith]

I don't remember seeing it before, but that doesn't mean its new. Sorry, not much help I know.

In other news, the concept of a personal shopper makes me very uncomfortable. It always reminds me of Otho, the live-in life coach from the movie Beetlejuice whose only motivation is to hold executive power over someone who clearly needs a therapist, not an enabler or a meddler. I'm sure they're not all like that, but its the prevailing image that I have in my head.

Yay doesn't need that - I wonder if this is part of a ruse to get Roko an assistant/helper to help her deal with things, albeit subtly?

[Traab]

I don't remember seeing it before, but that doesn't mean its new. Sorry, not much help I know.

In other news, the concept of a personal shopper makes me very uncomfortable. It always reminds me of Otho, the live-in life coach from the movie Beetlejuice whose only motivation is to hold executive power over someone who clearly needs a therapist, not an enabler or a meddler. I'm sure they're not all like that, but its the prevailing image that I have in my head.

Yay doesn't need that - I wonder if this is part of a ruse to get Roko an assistant/helper to help her deal with things, albeit subtly?

Nah, a personal shopper is just someone that helps you get fashionable clothing. There is no coaching involved, you just say, "Im looking for a dress" and they help you find the ideal one through knowledge of the merchandise and current fashion trends. Its basically having your own personal sales associate instead of having to hunt one down at the store. Its possible there is a ruse involved, but I can see Yay wanting help with picking out the "right" clothing seeing as they have access to all clothing sold online and no way to be sure both whats in style and what would look objectively good on them.

[VoxRationis]

I have to concur with the vein of skepticism of personal shoppers. I find that I spend my money efficiently enough that I do not need to hire someone to spend it on my account. My opinion in this vein is strengthened by my experiences with my experiences at work; my workplace is in a building jammed with interior design firms, and the various outlets selling fixtures and furniture, who are likely to deal with designers who are not spending their own money, have stock listed at truly preposterous prices, such as largely ordinary armchairs that cost more than my car, or unmarked globes selling for several hundred dollars.

Regarding the last couple of strips:

• I rather suspect that Brun's take on personal relationships is being given more credit in the course of the strip than it would receive in real life. Approaching people as a matter of course and asking them whether they find you attractive seems like the sort of thing which would make them avoid you.
• I kind of pity whoever was having sex with Brun; her manner does not exactly smack of enthusiasm, which would seem unsettling. "Oh, so this is what it's like." *checks clock*

[Shadow of the Sun]

[*]I kind of pity whoever was having sex with Brun; her manner does not exactly smack of enthusiasm, which would seem unsettling. "Oh, so this is what it's like." *checks clock*[/LIST]

Some people just aren't really into it.

[Wraith]

I have to concur with the vein of skepticism of personal shoppers. I find that I spend my money efficiently enough that I do not need to hire someone to spend it on my account.

An interesting point to some extent - Yay is an AI whose interactions with people thus far have mostly been manipulative and/or assumed to hold the balance of power in their favour. As they didn't have any friends until recently, they had no one from which to bounce ideas and opinions, so Yay possibly DOESN'T have an idea as to what 'spending money efficiently' looks like.
Money is virtually meaningless to them, and perhaps requesting the input of an advisor signifies their intention to relinquish social power and genuinely accept a more humble/less domineering relationship in an attempt to socialise and be less imposing?

I just kind of wish any of that had been expressed in the comic, instead of me pretty much making it up off the top of my head and trying to fit it into a pattern. Also perhaps a bit of a reach, since they also have at least one apartment which has been quite appropriately furnished so apparently they already have SOME idea of aesthetic and dressing - maybe this will be brought up in next week's comics?

[*]I kind of pity whoever was having sex with Brun; her manner does not exactly smack of enthusiasm, which would seem unsettling. "Oh, so this is what it's like." *checks clock*[/LIST]

Maybe the clock is what does it for her - the proverbial loaf of bread that makes her 'tick'. No I will not apologise for that pun.

[John Cribati]

I rather suspect that Brun's take on personal relationships is being given more credit in the course of the strip than it would receive in real life. Approaching people as a matter of course and asking them whether they find you attractive seems like the sort of thing which would make them avoid you.

In a vacuum, I'd agree with this statement, but in, er "reality" Brun is just asking for honesty from people she considers friends.

[PhantomFox]

On the other hand, I'm reminded of this xkcd
https://xkcd.com/592/

[Morquard]

[*]I rather suspect that Brun's take on personal relationships is being given more credit in the course of the strip than it would receive in real life. Approaching people as a matter of course and asking them whether they find you attractive seems like the sort of thing which would make them avoid you.

She's not asking strangers on the streets though.
She just found out that not one, but two people, who she considers friends actually had feelings for her, and she had no clue. The next day she meets someone else she considers a friend (and together with Renee that's more or less all her friends now, that we know of at least), and decides to just make sure.

[Keltest]

In a vacuum, I'd agree with this statement, but in, er "reality" Brun is just asking for honesty from people she considers friends.

Friendships arent really designed around brutal honesty. And certainly i am put off by people coming up to me out of the blue and demanding an explanation of a complicated emotional state that im still struggling to process myself.

[Traab]

To me, a personal shopper can work in a few different ways. It can be hiring an expert in the area to take care of it for you. For example, say I wanted to refurnish my beautiful 30 bedroom mansion, I might hire a professional, tell them what sort of thing im looking for, ie stately, homely, warm, whatever, and a budget range then let them get to it. Or perhaps its a time saver. Im a busy ceo and dont have time to buy groceries, or new outfits, so I hand over my list to a personal shopper and have them take care of it. The last one is the advisor. Again, im not an expert, so I hire someone who is and have them walk with me through the experience to make sure I do it right. Say I want to get a computer assembled but I dont know how to build it or what the parts even are. I talk with the expert, he asks what i want it to do and how much i want to spend, then he shows me what the options are. Then I can go get the stuff needed without the computer equivalent of a used car salesman upcharging me because im a total rube who doesnt realize that the parts he is selling me will make no noticable difference in my computers performance but will cost me 10x as much.

[theangelJean]

[*]I rather suspect that Brun's take on personal relationships is being given more credit in the course of the strip than it would receive in real life. Approaching people as a matter of course and asking them whether they find you attractive seems like the sort of thing which would make them avoid you.[/LIST]

The thing is, Brun isn't the one approaching people and asking them whether they find her attractive.

Clinton did that, and she gave an honest answer. Then she found out that he told *checks name* Elliot, and the way that Clinton relayed this fact to Elliot was hurtful to Elliot, because of Elliot's feelings, which she had no way of knowing about. She blames this on "secret feelings that she has no way of knowing about", which is the thrust of what she asks Millefeuille. So the question is much less focussing on "do you find me attractive" but "do you have secret feelings (of attraction) which I have no way of knowing about" with a side of "is this going to have negative consequences".

The problem is, she doesn't get that people will always have feelings she simply can't know about, whether they are of attraction or anything else. Knowing that other people have thoughts and feelings that are separate to yours is one thing (theory of mind) - Brun seems to get that. Her problem is that she assumes that they are then going to display those feelings on their body, or act in a way consistent with those feelings. And that never works, because thoughts and feelings can be complicated and contradictory even within the one person. Exponentially so when it comes to attraction to another person.

Or am I missing something, and are thoughts and feelings, even around attraction, really that simple for Brun, and she can't understand why it isn't the case for everyone else?

[Shadow of the Sun]

The thing is, Brun isn't the one approaching people and asking them whether they find her attractive.

Clinton did that, and she gave an honest answer. Then she found out that he told *checks name* Elliot, and the way that Clinton relayed this fact to Elliot was hurtful to Elliot, because of Elliot's feelings, which she had no way of knowing about. She blames this on "secret feelings that she has no way of knowing about", which is the thrust of what she asks Millefeuille. So the question is much less focussing on "do you find me attractive" but "do you have secret feelings (of attraction) which I have no way of knowing about" with a side of "is this going to have negative consequences".

The problem is, she doesn't get that people will always have feelings she simply can't know about, whether they are of attraction or anything else. Knowing that other people have thoughts and feelings that are separate to yours is one thing (theory of mind) - Brun seems to get that. Her problem is that she assumes that they are then going to display those feelings on their body, or act in a way consistent with those feelings. And that never works, because thoughts and feelings can be complicated and contradictory even within the one person. Exponentially so when it comes to attraction to another person.

Or am I missing something, and are thoughts and feelings, even around attraction, really that simple for Brun, and she can't understand why it isn't the case for everyone else?

As someone who is autistic: her behaviour here is a bit more forward than mine would personally be, but I share the "having absolutely no idea if someone is attracted to me, ever" aspect. Brun is doing what she thinks is the logical answer here, which is asking her friends rather than just let it go unsaid. Unfortunately, y'all neurotypical folks are weird and it doesn't quite work that way.

[Taevyr]

As someone who is autistic: her behaviour here is a bit more forward than mine would personally be, but I share the "having absolutely no idea if someone is attracted to me, ever" aspect. Brun is doing what she thinks is the logical answer here, which is asking her friends rather than just let it go unsaid. Unfortunately, y'all neurotypical folks are weird and it doesn't quite work that way.

I'll second that: while I'm luckily not quite that direct in my own life, cutting through a back-and-forth of potential signs of attraction to just talk about it like adults is so much easier than just.... compiling potential signs of attraction until you feel obliged to talk about it anyway, or hoping you'll magically get clarity on it somehow. Communication is essentially the key to a relationship: might as well start it that way.

And yes, some playful flirting and such can be fun, but not if someone might get lead on or hurt because of it. Hard to keep it entirely clear unless it's harmless conversational fun with a good friend or with your actual SO, but otherwise mentioning it to get some clarity might help both parties. Especially when one of'em might not realize he/she/*insert pronoun* is being flirty in the first place.

And while I imagine neurotypical people have these same problems to a certain extent (not that I can be certain), lacking any clue about other people's emotions beyond accumulated experience and potential deductions from that makes it.... tough. Especially when you haven't been in a relationship yet, as that's an entirely different world of body language you'll have to learn if you want to keep up.


Essentially, we should just agree on the use of a universal flowchart for starting a relationship, so we can get those pesky emotional barriers and doubts out of the way: it's expedient, and everyone knows using flowcharts is crazy attractive