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  1. - Top - End - #391
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    Default Re: Questionable Content XVI: Yes, Butt

    Quote Originally Posted by PhantomFox View Post
    ... which one of them is winning?
    Melon is. She has multiple moves available to her that will force responses from Yay, including 2 different drops that would create an uncapped 3 line that must be responded to. One of them, on the far left column, can then be topped with another Melon chip to create a diagonal threat that can't be immediately covered. Yay, on the other hand, has no moves she can make that will require Melon to block or lose the game; Melon should be able to set up a diagonal going over one of the current gaps and then play delaying moves until Yay is forced to fill in one of those gaps so Melon can complete one of the diagonals.

    (Given the demonstrated difference in capacity and personality between Yay and Melon, this is almost certainly Yay throwing the game.)

  2. - Top - End - #392
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    Default Re: Questionable Content XVI: Yes, Butt

    Assuming that they are playing Connect 4 of course, and not some kind of Calvin Ball-esque 3D Mega-Yahtzee. This is Melon we're talking about, after all....
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  3. - Top - End - #393
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    Default Re: Questionable Content XVI: Yes, Butt

    "That was insensitive of me"

    Really?

    Ugh.
    It is one thing to suspend your disbelief. It is another thing entirely to hang it by the neck until dead.

    Verisimilitude -- n, the appearance or semblance of truth, likelihood, or probability.

    The concern is not realism in speculative fiction, but rather the sense that a setting or story could be real, fostered by internal consistency and coherence.

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  4. - Top - End - #394
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    Default Re: Questionable Content XVI: Yes, Butt

    ... You're mad that Renee seems to be learning to think about the feelings of others? As in, has made a clear indication that she's past her initial characterization and trying to become a better person?

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  5. - Top - End - #395
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    Default Re: Questionable Content XVI: Yes, Butt

    Quote Originally Posted by John Cribati View Post
    ... You're mad that Renee seems to be learning to think about the feelings of others? As in, has made a clear indication that she's past her initial characterization and trying to become a better person?
    That is probably what Jeph was going for, but that specific instance seems a weird choice. It is not 'I can't eat.' it is 'I don't need to eat.' To me that is like for apologising for forgetting that someone does not need to take breaks while running instead of not being able to run at all.

    The real issue is of course Millefeuille's employer cheating her out of possibly years of lunch breaks.


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  6. - Top - End - #396
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    Default Re: Questionable Content XVI: Yes, Butt

    Not so much that she apologised for presuming something, but I too felt it it seems like a slightly awkward overreaction.

    She didn't misgender Mille, or make some other rather crude faux pas about her religion, parentage or anything personal - she just forgot that she was talking to a robot. Is that really worth the referring to herself as a bad person and hang-dog expression of guilt? Probably not - she just treated Mille like she treats everyone else (admirable, in and of itself) and Mille has no sense of humour so she answered literally.

    Especially since, as Mille revealed, lunch-breaks are not necessarily synonymous with eating so why wouldn't an AI have 10 minutes to run an errand around midday? Self-flagellation is probably not required, under the circumstances.
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  7. - Top - End - #397
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    Default Re: Questionable Content XVI: Yes, Butt

    I should hope you have lunch breaks of greater than 10 minutes.

  8. - Top - End - #398
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    Default Re: Questionable Content XVI: Yes, Butt

    Quote Originally Posted by VoxRationis View Post
    I should hope you have lunch breaks of greater than 10 minutes.
    In Massachusetts, you get 30 minutes unpaid break for any shift over 6 hours. Note that this does not necessarily equate to 30 minutes of meal time.
    “Evil is evil. Lesser, greater, middling, it's all the same. Proportions are negotiated, boundaries blurred. I'm not a pious hermit, I haven't done only good in my life. But if I'm to choose between one evil and another, then I prefer not to choose at all.”

  9. - Top - End - #399
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    Default Re: Questionable Content XVI: Yes, Butt

    Quote Originally Posted by Wraith View Post
    Not so much that she apologised for presuming something, but I too felt it it seems like a slightly awkward overreaction.

    She didn't misgender Mille, or make some other rather crude faux pas about her religion, parentage or anything personal - she just forgot that she was talking to a robot. Is that really worth the referring to herself as a bad person and hang-dog expression of guilt? Probably not - she just treated Mille like she treats everyone else (admirable, in and of itself) and Mille has no sense of humour so she answered literally.

    Especially since, as Mille revealed, lunch-breaks are not necessarily synonymous with eating so why wouldn't an AI have 10 minutes to run an errand around midday? Self-flagellation is probably not required, under the circumstances.
    I once read an older activist lamenting how nowadays, he said, when you talk to a black man, the assumption among younger activists is that you have to remember that he's black, rather than simply treating him like anyone else. Maybe it's something in this range.

    It is weird to realise that something you just said assumes that the other person has the same experience as you, and, well, that's not the case: he comes from somewhere else, not better, not worse. It's a bit like first "misappropriating" and then, when you realise, "othering" him, because he's different. But it isn't about being insensitive, it's about making a wrong statement on how your interlocutor is, either from forgetfulness or ignorance or lack of deduction. Still embarrassing, though.
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  10. - Top - End - #400
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    Default Re: Questionable Content XVI: Yes, Butt

    Quote Originally Posted by Iruka View Post
    That is probably what Jeph was going for, but that specific instance seems a weird choice. It is not 'I can't eat.' it is 'I don't need to eat.' To me that is like for apologising for forgetting that someone does not need to take breaks while running instead of not being able to run at all.
    Quote Originally Posted by Wraith View Post
    Not so much that she apologised for presuming something, but I too felt it it seems like a slightly awkward overreaction.

    She didn't misgender Mille, or make some other rather crude faux pas about her religion, parentage or anything personal - she just forgot that she was talking to a robot. Is that really worth the referring to herself as a bad person and hang-dog expression of guilt? Probably not - she just treated Mille like she treats everyone else (admirable, in and of itself) and Mille has no sense of humour so she answered literally.

    Especially since, as Mille revealed, lunch-breaks are not necessarily synonymous with eating so why wouldn't an AI have 10 minutes to run an errand around midday? Self-flagellation is probably not required, under the circumstances.
    Quote Originally Posted by Vinyadan View Post
    I once read an older activist lamenting how nowadays, he said, when you talk to a black man, the assumption among younger activists is that you have to remember that he's black, rather than simply treating him like anyone else. Maybe it's something in this range.
    ^ All of this.
    It is one thing to suspend your disbelief. It is another thing entirely to hang it by the neck until dead.

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  11. - Top - End - #401
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    Default Re: Questionable Content XVI: Yes, Butt

    Quote Originally Posted by Wraith View Post
    Not so much that she apologised for presuming something, but I too felt it it seems like a slightly awkward overreaction.

    She didn't misgender Mille, or make some other rather crude faux pas about her religion, parentage or anything personal - she just forgot that she was talking to a robot. Is that really worth the referring to herself as a bad person and hang-dog expression of guilt?
    I think saying she referred to herself as a bad person isn't accurate, she said that it was insensitive of herself. The act was suboptimal, not she is a bad person. Regarding the hangdog look, to me it looks like a case of minimal amount of expression one can depict in a panel-based art form. In universe, Renee just looked sheepish/self-reflective for a moment. For us, we get a whole panel of her looking at her nose.

    That Jeph took a panel out of his strip to have a character make a misstep and reflect on their actions related to his minority-peoples stand-ins is clearly deliberate, and part of the his (not all that) newfound desire to use his gag-a-day comic as a political metaphor. And I can see disliking that in total, but I don't think anything in today's strip is particularly notable within that framework.

  12. - Top - End - #402
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    Default Re: Questionable Content XVI: Yes, Butt

    Quote Originally Posted by Willie the Duck View Post
    I think saying she referred to herself as a bad person isn't accurate, she said that it was insensitive of herself. The act was suboptimal, not she is a bad person. Regarding the hangdog look, to me it looks like a case of minimal amount of expression one can depict in a panel-based art form. In universe, Renee just looked sheepish/self-reflective for a moment. For us, we get a whole panel of her looking at her nose.
    Fair enough. I think you get what I was aiming for though - It doesn't feel like something worth being sheepish or embarrassed by, especially not for someone as brazen as Rene.

    Similarly, as Keltest said above, in most places you're entitled by law to take a break, even if you don't use it for eating - it was a reasonable assumption that Mille would have a break, and that she doesn't either indicates that she is an atypical workaholic OR that her civil liberties are being violated, assuming even that AIs have those same rights.

    The latter point could be a really important and relevant piece of world-building, especially given May's recent plight. Instead, Jeph has chosen to dwell on making Renee look apologetic for something really quite insignificant.

    ...I don't think anything in today's strip is particularly notable within that framework.
    I absolutely agree with that. There's nothing BAD about today's comic, it's just... awkward.
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  13. - Top - End - #403
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    Default Re: Questionable Content XVI: Yes, Butt

    Honestly, i think my biggest issue here is that Jeph is, again, talking about things that he has no personal experience with (although for a different reason than usual here) and it shows. QC has been Jeph's proper full time job for a while now, right? When was the last time he had to worry about taking managing his half hour unpaid break? He makes his own schedule, and as long as the art comes out on schedule, it doesnt matter if he takes a 10 minute break, or 40 minutes or none.
    “Evil is evil. Lesser, greater, middling, it's all the same. Proportions are negotiated, boundaries blurred. I'm not a pious hermit, I haven't done only good in my life. But if I'm to choose between one evil and another, then I prefer not to choose at all.”

  14. - Top - End - #404
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    Default Re: Questionable Content XVI: Yes, Butt

    Mille works in a research lab. It's entirely possible that her human colleagues are sufficiently engaged with their work that they have a tendency to eat at their desks or otherwise informally work through their lunch breaks rather than actually putting everything on pause for half an hour each day. That sort of thing is actually a fairly common trait of that specific type of workplace, especially if you have experiments or machines that cannot be easily paused or turned off. That could easily lead to Mille not bothering to take a break in the middle of the day at all because she doesn't need to eat (it's relevant that in the actual strip she says 'I don't take,' not 'I don't have' or 'I don't get').

    In terms of civil rights, an AI that doesn't take break time simply works their hours straight and gets to go home half an hour earlier each day (this is presumably how it works for May at the convenience store) in the same fashion as humans who have jobs that do not permit scheduled breaks during their workday (this is common in essential services, where you're just supposed to eat when you can).
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  15. - Top - End - #405
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    Default Re: Questionable Content XVI: Yes, Butt

    Speaking as someone who works at a lab, neither I nor my co-workers usually take lunch breaks. There's no policy reason but going through the hassle of the shutting things down and leaving the lab for lunch never seems worth it.
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  16. - Top - End - #406
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    Default Re: Questionable Content XVI: Yes, Butt

    I sympathize with the desire to avoid potentially awkward conversations, but crude phrasing aside, there's something to be said for open communication around potential relationships.
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  17. - Top - End - #407
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    Default Re: Questionable Content XVI: Yes, Butt

    My problem with the "that was insensitive" is, that it implies that "Yeah, I was assuming that wrong" or "Oh yeah, I should have assumed that". But why should Renee have assumed that "doesn't eat = doesn't take a break"? That's the bit I don't get. I know people who don't eat in their lunch break. They still get their lunch break. Some read a book, others just go for a walk.

    I feel if she had said "Well, you could come during your lunch break, but since you don't get those..." - "Wait, why do you assume I don't get a lunch break?" would have made for a proper "Oh, that was stupid and insensitive" moment, but... not this...

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    Default Re: Questionable Content XVI: Yes, Butt

    Quote Originally Posted by Morquard View Post
    My problem with the "that was insensitive" is, that it implies that "Yeah, I was assuming that wrong" or "Oh yeah, I should have assumed that". But why should Renee have assumed that "doesn't eat = doesn't take a break"? That's the bit I don't get. I know people who don't eat in their lunch break. They still get their lunch break. Some read a book, others just go for a walk.

    I feel if she had said "Well, you could come during your lunch break, but since you don't get those..." - "Wait, why do you assume I don't get a lunch break?" would have made for a proper "Oh, that was stupid and insensitive" moment, but... not this...

    Yeah, Renee's "mistake" was in automatically and without forethought treating an AI like she'd treat any other person, what a horrible mistake.

    ....

    In the August 6th update, Renee's first-panel observation is something the readers have known for a while now.
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  19. - Top - End - #409
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    Post Re: Questionable Content XVI: Yes, Butt

    Quote Originally Posted by Max_Killjoy View Post
    Yeah, Renee's "mistake" was in automatically and without forethought treating an AI like she'd treat any other person, what a horrible mistake.
    See, that's a fine statement in a vacuum, but it doesn't work that way in real life. There are numerous cases where it's insensitive not to take people's differences into account.
    Last edited by John Cribati; 2020-08-06 at 10:46 AM. Reason: Accidentally gave the post a weird icon lmao

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  20. - Top - End - #410
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    Default Re: Questionable Content XVI: Yes, Butt

    Quote Originally Posted by John Cribati View Post
    See, that's a fine statement in a vacuum, but it doesn't work that way in real life. There are numerous cases where it's insensitive not to take people's differences into account.
    There's a cultural current that has long since left common courtesy behind and plunged headlong into nonsense on that front, however. (No, I won't be giving specific examples.)

    Renee didn't shove someone's disability in their face with repeated unthinking comments, she "assumed" another person gets their work breaks as legally mandated in most states.
    Last edited by Max_Killjoy; 2020-08-06 at 11:29 AM.
    It is one thing to suspend your disbelief. It is another thing entirely to hang it by the neck until dead.

    Verisimilitude -- n, the appearance or semblance of truth, likelihood, or probability.

    The concern is not realism in speculative fiction, but rather the sense that a setting or story could be real, fostered by internal consistency and coherence.

    The Worldbuilding Forum -- where realities are born.

  21. - Top - End - #411
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    Default Re: Questionable Content XVI: Yes, Butt

    Max, you just reminded me of another thing that struck me and I can now better articulate; Mille wasn't failing to take her breaks because she's an AI and it's commonly assumed that because AIs don't eat then they don't take breaks because they usually do. May takes her breaks at work, and uses them to have sex with Sven in the broom closet. Momo also takes her breaks at work, though she probably spends that time reading books and fantasising about having sex with Sven in a broom closet....

    Mille doesn't skip her breaks because it's naturally assumed that AIs don't need to take them, quite the opposite; AIs do take breaks, but Mille didn't realise it because she's dumb and the concept of 'a break' had to be explained to her by Renee.

    Renee made the right assumption about AIs, she just happened to speak it to the one idiot who is the exception! That's not insensitive, that's Mille being arbitrarily unpredictable because "lol random"!
    Last edited by Wraith; 2020-08-06 at 12:56 PM.
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  22. - Top - End - #412
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    Default Re: Questionable Content XVI: Yes, Butt

    That is correct, and kind of the subject of the next day's first panel.

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    Default Re: Questionable Content XVI: Yes, Butt

    Btw did any AIs ever say that they see not being able to eat as a limitation or not having to eat as something convenient? I can't remember anything (aside from smell hallucinations) but after so long I am a bit surprised that it hasn't come up if I haven't forgotten it.

  24. - Top - End - #414
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    Default Re: Questionable Content XVI: Yes, Butt

    I remember Pintsize trying to eat a chocolate cake and needing to be cleaned out.

    But between taking place early in the comic and having to do with Pintsize early in the comic, that's the kind of scenario you take with some rather large chunks of salt. Maybe boulders worth.

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    Default Re: Questionable Content XVI: Yes, Butt

    I feel like the people who are treating Renee's slightly furrowed brow and apology as a sign that she's somehow UTTERLY ASHAMED at her behavior (rather than just going "oh yeah, guess I didn't take your differences into account") have forgotten what it looks like when Renee is *actually* deeply embarrassed about what she just said.

    https://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=3960

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    Default Re: Questionable Content XVI: Yes, Butt

    Quote Originally Posted by Morquard View Post
    I know people who don't eat in their lunch break. They still get their lunch break. Some read a book, others just go for a walk.
    Sadly, most of the people that I know who don't eat on their lunch break use the time to step out for a smoke.

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    Default Re: Questionable Content XVI: Yes, Butt

    Quote Originally Posted by dps View Post
    Sadly, most of the people that I know who don't eat on their lunch break use the time to step out for a smoke.
    I mean they do that all the ****ing time anyway, so I didn't count it

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    Default Re: Questionable Content XVI: Yes, Butt

    Quote Originally Posted by Morquard View Post
    I mean they do that all the ****ing time anyway, so I didn't count it
    I think some countries actually outlawed cigarette breaks: why make an exception for smokers? I can't remember the details, however. But it's nasty when you have lazy people who are also smokers that disappear for half an hour with the excuse of a cig, knowing that their contract is fixed-term anyway and it wouldn't be worth the hassle to just fire them: after all, their colleagues can keep things afloat anyway.
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  29. - Top - End - #419
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    Default Re: Questionable Content XVI: Yes, Butt

    Most employers here tolerate it as long as it doesn't take overhand (so 5 min break is ok, 30 min is not), or they only get 30 min lunch break while non smokers get the full hour.

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    Default Re: Questionable Content XVI: Yes, Butt

    Every job I have ever worked at was "don't care if you smoke or not - if you take any extra breaks you're written up".

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