Questionable Content XVI: Yes, Butt

[Willie the Duck]

Hold on, how did we go from "Im thinking something that I don't want to say out loud." to "I know what you think better than you do."?

Did you not get the memo? Renee is disliked, so all things she does must be interpreted in the least positive light.

Seriously, IRL it would be a rare situation where a friend doing this would be a positive (exactly how often is keeping information from you a beneficial thing?). However, it is common throughout sitcoms and people rarely get up in arms about it. Although I can't think of a specific instance of it happening in QC back in the day of Marten/Dora/Faye prominence, it would not be out of place (and probably wouldn't raise this level of ire).

[Max_Killjoy]

Did you not get the memo? Renee is disliked, so all things she does must be interpreted in the least positive light.

Seriously, IRL it would be a rare situation where a friend doing this would be a positive (exactly how often is keeping information from you a beneficial thing?). However, it is common throughout sitcoms and people rarely get up in arms about it. Although I can't think of a specific instance of it happening in QC back in the day of Marten/Dora/Faye prominence, it would not be out of place (and probably wouldn't raise this level of ire).

I don't get the Renee hate at all. She's not my favorite character in this comic, but I see no reason for people to despise her like they apparently do.

This is just a case of me loathing this dynamic in "friendships" and completely not getting why so many people think it's a normal healthy thing to do to someone who is supposed to be your friend.

[Keltest]

I don't get the Renee hate at all. She's not my favorite character in this comic, but I see no reason for people to despise her like they apparently do.

This is just a case of me loathing this dynamic in "friendships" and completely not getting why so many people think it's a normal healthy thing to do to someone who is supposed to be your friend.

In this case, refraining from outright speculating on the romantic activities of a friend to their face unprompted is probably the best thing Renee could be doing. As others have mentioned, shipping people that you know, especially to their face, is pretty crass.

And yes, I absolutely keep my private opinions about my friends and their activities to myself all the time, unless I have some reason to think that my opinion would be directly help them in some way. Theyre my friend, not my child. They don't need to know every little thing I think about them, and they probably don't want to.

[Max_Killjoy]

In this case, refraining from outright speculating on the romantic activities of a friend to their face unprompted is probably the best thing Renee could be doing. As others have mentioned, shipping people that you know, especially to their face, is pretty crass.

And yes, I absolutely keep my private opinions about my friends and their activities to myself all the time, unless I have some reason to think that my opinion would be directly help them in some way. Theyre my friend, not my child. They don't need to know every little thing I think about them, and they probably don't want to.

I'd agree, if it weren't for the smug, condescending "mmmm hmmm..." and crap-eating grin multiple times.

[Traab]

I'd agree, if it weren't for the smug, condescending "mmmm hmmm..." and crap-eating grin multiple times.

Yes because clearly the right response is a robotic blank face and total refusal to even acknowledge that she was told anything as literally any reaction at all is wrong if renee makes it. The first smile and mmhmm had nothing smug or condescending in it, she was happy for her friend and had a little suspicion it might be something more than finding a new buddy but she kept that to herself. The second one was clearly her teasing her friend (you know, that thing that friends do sometimes?) in such a way that brun clearly recognized. Its nothing but sheer spite to decide renee did something wrong there.

[Wraith]

Let me be clear, my previous post wasn't intended as an "I hate Renee" theme. In fact I've started to warm to her - she's a jerk, but it comes back to bite her often enough that it's funny, rather than blame it on her Freudian excuse and be excused for it until a crisis blows everything up.

The point was supposed to be that we've already seen this plot, or at least something very similar to it. A human girl and an AI girl are kind-of-maybe-attracted to each other, don't really recognise or know how to act on it, so some D-List cast member appears and explains it to the audience but not the characters themselves. This time appears to be somewhat more condensed than the Faye/Bubbles affair, but that seems to have hit all the major beats thus far.

I know it's Jeph's M.O. to make his characters an endless font of 20-something dunces who don't know their emotions from their elbows and all the associated angst that comes from that, but I'm hoping that it goes down a different route very soon.
If nothing else, I find this time around slightly uncomfortable. Faye's obliviousness was played for a joke because it made her look silly and we cold make jokes about the look on her face when the penny finally dropped, but Brun is autistic and self-admittedly can't process the subtext of the situation. Making a joke out of her inability to recognise the social implications and the inevitable realisation that will come really doesn't feel very funny.

I mean, you can write a plot about such a person and the struggles that they face; good on Jeph for representing. A wacky love-hexagon involving blue robot people and a nerdy cyborg played for laughs could be considered.... insensitive.

[Willie the Duck]

I don't get the Renee hate at all. She's not my favorite character in this comic, but I see no reason for people to despise her like they apparently do.

There are legitimate reasons to dislike most of the 'new cast' (each one for their own individual failing), but I feel there is also a lot of 'these aren't the cast I fell in love with the comic over'-ism as well.

This is just a case of me loathing this dynamic in "friendships" and completely not getting why so many people think it's a normal healthy thing to do to someone who is supposed to be your friend.

I don't necessarily disagree (Brun even calls it out in the comic we are discussing). I think IRL Renee would be somewhat better of a friend if the exchange had instead gone --
Renee: Where have you been?
Brun: Brunch with Millefeuille and then a walk in the park.
R: Aww, lookit you making friends with the neighbors.
B: She's Nice. I like her.
R: Oh? Platonic or romantic like?
B: <whatever response that incurs>

However, the whole 'plot revolves around poor information sharing or information sharing timed to need of plot' motif is an ingrained sitcom staple that I'm not particularly aggrieved at Renee over it. Heck, if this were a more 4th-wall breaking strip, the exchange could have gone--
Renee: Where have you been?
Brun: Brunch with Millefeuille and then a walk in the park.
R: Aww, lookit you making friends with the neighbors.
B: She's Nice. I like her.
R: Mm hmm.
B: I know that "mm hmmm." That means you're thinking something, but I have to find out about it at the 22 minute mark to support the end-of-episode cliffhanger.
R: Mm hmm.
B: Witty one-liner. <canned laughter>

And the 'smug', 'presumption,' 'condescending,' 'crap-eating grin,' and 'attitude' bits just do not follow from the information we have available. It really seems like you are porting grievances you have with other media (or real life) into this strip, of which we know a lot less about Renee's inner thought process than would support this. We probablypossibly can infer that Renee thinks Brun is attracted to Millefeuille, doesn't know it yet, and isn't sharing said information. That may or may not be truly in Brun's best interest, and Renee could be making a mistake in actions here. But that it is out of some condescending attitude? I just don't think we know that at all.

The point was supposed to be that we've already seen this plot, or at least something very similar to it. A human girl and an AI girl are kind-of-maybe-attracted to each other, don't really recognise or know how to act on it, so some D-List cast member appears and explains it to the audience but not the characters themselves. This time appears to be somewhat more condensed than the Faye/Bubbles affair, but that seems to have hit all the major beats thus far.

I know it's Jeph's M.O. to make his characters an endless font of 20-something dunces who don't know their emotions from their elbows and all the associated angst that comes from that, but I'm hoping that it goes down a different route very soon.
If nothing else, I find this time around slightly uncomfortable. Faye's obliviousness was played for a joke because it made her look silly and we cold make jokes about the look on her face when the penny finally dropped, but Brun is autistic and self-admittedly can't process the subtext of the situation. Making a joke out of her inability to recognise the social implications and the inevitable realisation that will come really doesn't feel very funny.

To the first point, I don't think there is a different route. I mean, maybe this time the two of them won't end up together, or the outstanding members of the love polygon don't conveniently disappear and there is angst. However, I think the comic's M.O. is set, regardless of the specifics. This is a comic about early 20-somethings (and robots in the same situation, regardless of chronological age) figuring out their lives and most of the conflict is in the 'there's some misunderstanding' or 'someone was accidentally thoughtless to someone else because they are a doofus' vein. This is Friends/HIMYM/Scrubs/etc., the webcomic. Mostly changing up the cast instead of following the original cast into 30-something territory cements that for me.

To the second point, perhaps. It doesn't seem like the comic is making as much fun of Brun's inability to catch cues as it did Faye's much more self-involved cluelessness (or Dora's jealousy, or Marten's coasting through life-ishness). It is using it as a device for the plot advancement for sure, but I'm not sure how you include an autistic cast member without the effects of that state of being coming to bear in some way. It's definitely a tough needle to thread that Jeph is attempting, and I doubt he will do it without incurring some reason to complain, but right now I'm giving the effort a B grade.

[georgie_leech]

In unrelated news, I appear to be in today's strip

[Max_Killjoy]

Yes because clearly the right response is a robotic blank face and total refusal to even acknowledge that she was told anything as literally any reaction at all is wrong if renee makes it.

Stop assuming that any negative reaction to anything Renee does is part of the silly "Renee hate". I've said more than once that I don't understand or share in the loathing some readers have for that character.

If you're going to insist that anything negative I say about anything Renee ever does is because of some "Renee can do nothing right" bias, then don't even bother responding to my posts.

[John Cribati]

... Brun is autistic and self-admittedly can't process the subtext of the situation. Making a joke out of her inability to recognise the social implications and the inevitable realisation that will come really doesn't feel very funny.

A joke can be "about" anything. What makes it offensive is specifically the punchline.

We did just have a several-strips-long joke about autistic people not being able to understand social cues, and zero people have voiced their offense at it so far. Because even though the humor is in how Brun and Millie's points of view of the outing may differ, and autism is a major contributor to Brun's point of view, the punchline of the joke isn't "she's autistic lol."

There's also the possibility Brun's realization isn't even going to be a joke.

[Max_Killjoy]

A joke can be "about" anything. What makes it offensive is specifically the punchline.

We did just have a several-strips-long joke about autistic people not being able to understand social cues, and zero people have voiced their offense at it so far. Because even though the humor is in how Brun and Millie's points of view of the outing may differ, and autism is a major contributor to Brun's point of view, the punchline of the joke isn't "she's autistic lol."

There's also the possibility Brun's realization isn't even going to be a joke.

My reaction to Renee's reaction is in part because she knows Brun has trouble with those social cues, and instead of speaking plainly about it or keeping her mouth entirely shut about it, she engages in a sort of smug, "knowing" reaction, lording her "superior" social knowledge over Brun and anticipating the awkwardness.

(And because evidently this disclaimer must be posted every time I mention Renee, I do not hate Renee, I am commenting on that page in isolation from whatever communal hatred exists for the character.)

[Ibrinar]

I think it bears remembering that from an in character perspective renee actually has no way to come to a reliable conclusion from that dialog and has vague suspicions at best.

[Traab]

I dunno max, that seems to be inferring an AWFUL lot of info from an amused expression. The second smirk was clearly renee teasing her friend a bit, which brun actually got. I got from that that renee thinks its a cute situation and she doesnt want to shove her way into it which is a good thing because brun wasnt asking for any help to understand something, renee just caught a potential implication then teased her friend a bit when she caught the mmhmm. Had renee tried to convince brun that they went on a date im sure there would be just as much outrage from renee trying to shove people together or interfere in a situation where she wasnt asked for. She is keeping out of it, with, at best, a hint to brun that she might have missed something and should think it over. No pushing towards whatever outcome renee might prefer, no smugness, no condescension, just a happy smile at the potential situation. Then a brief tease of her friend at the end. Not mean in any way, just a tease.

[halfeye]

I dunno max, that seems to be inferring an AWFUL lot of info from an amused expression. The second smirk was clearly renee teasing her friend a bit, which brun actually got. I got from that that renee thinks its a cute situation and she doesnt want to shove her way into it which is a good thing because brun wasnt asking for any help to understand something, renee just caught a potential implication then teased her friend a bit when she caught the mmhmm. Had renee tried to convince brun that they went on a date im sure there would be just as much outrage from renee trying to shove people together or interfere in a situation where she wasnt asked for. She is keeping out of it, with, at best, a hint to brun that she might have missed something and should think it over. No pushing towards whatever outcome renee might prefer, no smugness, no condescension, just a happy smile at the potential situation. Then a brief tease of her friend at the end. Not mean in any way, just a tease.

I don't care about Renee. But. In this situation someone who knows something is withholding that information from someone who they know will have a problem obtaining that information due to a disability they have. If someone can't reach a high shelf, deliberately putting stuff on that high shelf that you know they are entitled to and will need is taking the mickey of their disability.

[Traab]

I don't care about Renee. But. In this situation someone who knows something is withholding that information from someone who they know will have a problem obtaining that information due to a disability they have. If someone can't reach a high shelf, deliberately putting stuff on that high shelf that you know they are entitled to and will need is taking the mickey of their disability.

Do we know if brun WANTS renee to explain everything to her that she might miss? To use your own example, its less putting things on a high shelf and more not getting it down for her unless she wants you to. I know lots of people who get irritated when others do things for them that might be hard but still possible. Like people with handicaps annoyed at someone for pushing their wheelchair through an area when they could move it themselves. It may be harder but its their independence that matters. For all we know, brun has made it very clear to renee that she wants to figure out these things whenever possible which means she took the mmhmm as the hint that she missed something and now has to try and work it out.

[mythmonster2]

Oh god, please don't let this be a remake of the "Claire and Tai get high" "arc".

[Rodin]

Am I missing something with all the theremins? Is it pot related humor, or librarian humor, or something Claire specific? Because I'm totally at sea over why one person who decide to buy Claire a theremin.

[Morquard]

Am I missing something with all the theremins? Is it pot related humor, or librarian humor, or something Claire specific? Because I'm totally at sea over why one person who decide to buy Claire a theremin.

I assume Jeph either got gifted one and thought it hillarious or was gifting one to someone, or jsut saw it soemwhere, and thought "Hey what if everyone gives them as a gift?"

Because I as well can not remember a single instance where Claire ever seemed even remotely interested in build-your-own-anything kits, or theremin, or even musical instruments in general (Aside from encouraging Marten maybe)

Alternate theory: There is a street vendor at the corner that sells them cheap and everyone was like "Oh damn I don't have a gift, but this will do fine!" That at least would be somewhat more believable than all of them thinking its actually a good one.

[Wraith]

I think the joke was supposed to be that Emily bought Claire a theremin because... Well, it's Emily, and she does random stuff, and she somehow inferred that Claire would like a theremin. It's funny (?) because Emily is weird and she does weird things, and that's fine.

Then today's joke is that everyone bought Claire a theremin, which suddenly means that Emily isn't the weird one! Somehow everyone has decided that Claire is the weirdo who would appreciate a theremin for some reason!

It's funny because it's turnabout. Emily is sweet but weird, and she does stuff that makes sense to her but not to anyone else - but when Emily does something right it makes everyone else question their view of the world, because maybe she knows something that they don't.

3 different people decide that you might like theremins. Enjoy your existential dread as you try to figure out how you have given them that impression, or what it is about you that suggests you enjoy the sound of a cat being tortured through a two-way radio.

Or, yeah, maybe Morquard was right. They all just happened to stop at the same gas station, realise that they should bring a gift, and coincidentally grabbed the same 'unique' thing at the same time. That works too.

[Willie the Duck]

Am I missing something with all the theremins? Is it pot related humor, or librarian humor, or something Claire specific? Because I'm totally at sea over why one person who decide to buy Claire a theremin.

My assumption is that Jeph decided that getting her a theremin would be totally in character for Emily, whose orthogonal thinking is a defining feature. He then decided it fed into a another pseudo-joke about many people making the same odd choice without knowledge of each other. In other words, we're in the wacky-hijinks part of the comic, not the coherent plot section.

[Max_Killjoy]

Hasn't the theremin come up before in QC?

[DaveOTN]

I went to Youtube to remind myself what a theremin sounded like and there were a ton of comments from a week ago saying "Is anybody else here because of the Google Doodle?" Sure enough, Google had a game on their search screen on April 30 where you could mess around with a virtual theremin:
https://www.google.com/doodles/stay-...-rockmore-2016

So I think it was just random weirdness by Emily, stimulated in Jeph's mind by messing around on the Internet a couple days before, and then he thought it would be funny to have everybody show up with the same wacky gift.

[Cikomyr2]

That's a cuuute comic

[MoonCat]

Has... Dora forgotten that Faye was in a car accident?

[Felius]

Has... Dora forgotten that Faye was in a car accident?

Dora? Maybe. Jeph? Probably.

Also, now that the point is raised, I'm going to say I'm less than convinced that Tai does not have a weed problem. She not only seems to be constantly getting high, despite what Dora says, but also trying to get everyone around her high too.

[Keltest]

Has... Dora forgotten that Faye was in a car accident?

I see two possible explanations.

1 is that she DOES remember, which is why she's using that particular analogy. Faye responds positively to it because she is familiar with the sensation from that, but didn't consciously connect them.

2 is that she DOESNT remember, and it was just a coincidence that Faye happened to have the experience to connect to it. Faye doesn't talk about it much and doesn't wear low cut shirts much anymore to show the scar.

[Traab]

Dora? Maybe. Jeph? Probably.

Also, now that the point is raised, I'm going to say I'm less than convinced that Tai does not have a weed problem. She not only seems to be constantly getting high, despite what Dora says, but also trying to get everyone around her high too.

Well yeah, because if other people get high with you, its a social thing. If you are the only one lighting up its like being the one drunk person at the party. Kinda embarrassing.

[Felius]

Well yeah, because if other people get high with you, its a social thing. If you are the only one lighting up its like being the one drunk person at the party. Kinda embarrassing.

If she had offered and stopped there, perhaps. But if she's trying to convince others that aren't really on board with it, with this as a reason, it comes like she's looking for an excuse in social occasions, not just doing what is actually implied by "doing it socially".

Mind you, I'm not saying she's not functional, but it entirely looks like she has a weed problem to me, just one that doesn't destroys her life.

[Max_Killjoy]

Let's call it a potential sign of a possible problem.

[Wraith]

I wonder if Dora's reaction - or rather, lack of reaction - to the suggestion is either growth for her, or a sign that she's in denial.

On of the bigger problems between Dora and Marten's relationship was that she was insecure and couldn't help but get into his business, no matter how personal, private or otherwise unwanted it was. Yet today, Faye makes a fairly reasonable suggestion that Tai maybe smokes too much based on the observation that Tai is walking about the streets with a baggy ready to go and is now persistent in getting Marten to join in with her and Claire. I certainly wouldn't go so far as to say she was pressuring him, but in context it at least sounds like he's said 'no' and she won't take that for his answer.

Dora blew up her previous relationship on way less than this. I wonder what has changed? It's not like we've seen her visiting her therapist - in fact, the last couple of times I remember it being brought up was ages ago, and that she explicitly was trying to avoid going.

...Or it's just a throwaway bit because some rando on twitter asked if maybe it was okay, and Jeph has decided to make a statement in the comic just in case anyone else was wondering. That could be it too.